zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

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zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Archie Cobbs
I upgraded a machine yesterday via "zypper dup" from 12.2 -> 13.1.

Several things went wrong.

Instead of creating a bunch of bugs in bugzilla (which I don't have
time for anyway) and having half of them be irrelevant, already fixed,
etc. I thought I'd run these issues by the mailing list first in case
anyone wants to step up to investigate.

An edited log of the upgrade is here: http://pastebin.com/YYr9gGT7
Note, "Installing" lines are only shown for those RPMs that spit out
errors.

Problems are listed in order of severity most to least...

Problem #1: After the upgrade, /boot/grub/menu.lst was empty
(contained zero choices).

  In other words, zypper left my system in an unbootable state. I have
no idea why this happened.

  Fortunately I had a backup which I edited to match the new kernel
and installed before rebooting.

Problem #2: The upgrade hung during "Installing
rtkit-0.11_git201205151338-5.2.1"

  The stuck process was:  dbus-send --system --type=method_call
--dest=org.freedesktop.DBus / org.freedesktop.DBus.ReloadConfig >
/dev/null 2>&1

  I had to kill -9 this process in order to get zypper running again.

Problem #3: Several mkinitrd's failed due to "plymouth: symbol lookup
error: plymouth: undefined symbol: ply_logger_is_tracing_enabled"

  Several RPMs run the mkinitrd stuff in %post. At first these worked,
then they started failing with the above error, and then later they
started working again once plymouth had been installed. Perhaps there
is a missing Requires(post): dependency?

Problem #4: Multiple errors of the form "/etc/init.d/foo: No such file
or directory"

  For example:

    Installing: at-3.1.13-5.4.1 ....
    /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.DPrmiC: line 8: /etc/init.d/atd: No such file or directory

Problem #5: Lots and lots of other random errors in various %post scripts.

  See the log... http://pastebin.com/YYr9gGT7

-Archie

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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

gregfreemyer
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Archie Cobbs <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I upgraded a machine yesterday via "zypper dup" from 12.2 -> 13.1.
>
> Several things went wrong.
>
> Instead of creating a bunch of bugs in bugzilla (which I don't have
> time for anyway) and having half of them be irrelevant, already fixed,
> etc. I thought I'd run these issues by the mailing list first in case
> anyone wants to step up to investigate.


Archie, sometimes you can skip a release like you are trying, but it
is never supported via zypper dup.

The only supported method via zypper is to update 12.2 => 12.3; zypper
patch; 12.3 => 13.1

I think it is supported to go straight from 12.2 => 13.1 if you use
the DVD, but I'm not sure.  In fact, if you have BtrFS for the system
drive, I'm sure that too will fail.

An example:
==
Problem #2: The upgrade hung during "Installing
rtkit-0.11_git201205151338-5.2.1"

  The stuck process was:  dbus-send --system --type=method_call
--dest=org.freedesktop.DBus / org.freedesktop.DBus.ReloadConfig >
/dev/null 2>&1

  I had to kill -9 this process in order to get zypper running again.
==

Known bug.  The solution was released as a 12.3 patch.  Since you were
upgrading without that patch installed, you got bit.

Greg
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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Archie Cobbs
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Greg Freemyer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Archie Cobbs <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I upgraded a machine yesterday via "zypper dup" from 12.2 -> 13.1.
>>
>> Several things went wrong.
>
> Archie, sometimes you can skip a release like you are trying, but it
> is never supported via zypper dup.

Well that explains a lot :)

That's a nice booby trap. Hey, I just had an idea.

How about zypper not letting you do this?

Or at least giving a warning?

Or at least documenting that this is not supported in the man page?

Or at least putting a warning on the "SDB:System upgrade" wiki page?
(actually I just submitted that)

-Archie

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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Agustin Benito Bethencourt
Hi,

I did the same you did without reading the 12.3 release notes so I skipped a
couple of interesting steps that would have helped me.

Skipping a version do not mean you can skip the release notes. That is the
lesson I learned.

On Thursday 05 December 2013 17:08:46 Archie Cobbs wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Greg Freemyer <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Archie Cobbs <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> I upgraded a machine yesterday via "zypper dup" from 12.2 -> 13.1.
> >>
> >> Several things went wrong.
> >
> > Archie, sometimes you can skip a release like you are trying, but it
> > is never supported via zypper dup.
>
> Well that explains a lot :)
>
> That's a nice booby trap. Hey, I just had an idea.
>
> How about zypper not letting you do this?
>
> Or at least giving a warning?
>
> Or at least documenting that this is not supported in the man page?
>
> Or at least putting a warning on the "SDB:System upgrade" wiki page?
> (actually I just submitted that)
>
> -Archie

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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Archie Cobbs
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Hash: SHA256



El 2013-12-05 a las 15:56 -0600, Archie Cobbs escribió:

> I upgraded a machine yesterday via "zypper dup" from 12.2 -> 13.1.

Not supported.

> Instead of creating a bunch of bugs in bugzilla (which I don't have
> time for anyway) and having half of them be irrelevant, already fixed,
> etc. I thought I'd run these issues by the mailing list first in case
> anyone wants to step up to investigate.

Not suported means that those bugzillas would be inmediately closed as
wontfix or something similar.

If it works, fine...

You can try to recover by doing an Offline System Upgrade (Boot DVD,
choose upgrade).

- --
Cheers
        Carlos E. R.

        (from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith))

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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Archie Cobbs
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El 2013-12-05 a las 17:08 -0600, Archie Cobbs escribió:

> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 17:08:46 -0600
> From: Archie Cobbs <[hidden email]>
> Reply-To: OS-fctry <[hidden email]>
> To: OS-fctry <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail
>
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Greg Freemyer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Archie Cobbs <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I upgraded a machine yesterday via "zypper dup" from 12.2 -> 13.1.
>>>
>>> Several things went wrong.
>>
>> Archie, sometimes you can skip a release like you are trying, but it
>> is never supported via zypper dup.
>
> Well that explains a lot :)
>
> That's a nice booby trap. Hey, I just had an idea.
>
> How about zypper not letting you do this?
>
> Or at least giving a warning?
>
> Or at least documenting that this is not supported in the man page?
>
> Or at least putting a warning on the "SDB:System upgrade" wiki page?
> (actually I just submitted that)
It is:


«Starting with openSUSE 11.2, a live upgrade from the prior version is
officially supported.»

It says "from the prior version". It should be clearer, but it is there :-}

- --
Cheers
        Carlos E. R.

        (from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith))

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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Archie Cobbs
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Carlos E. R.
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>>>> I upgraded a machine yesterday via "zypper dup" from 12.2 -> 13.1.
>>>>
>>>> Several things went wrong.
>>
>> That's a nice booby trap. Hey, I just had an idea.
>>
>> How about zypper not letting you do this?
>>
>> Or at least giving a warning?
>>
>> Or at least documenting that this is not supported in the man page?
>>
>> Or at least putting a warning on the "SDB:System upgrade" wiki page?
>> (actually I just submitted that)
>
> It is:
>
> «Starting with openSUSE 11.2, a live upgrade from the prior version is officially supported.»
>
> It says "from the prior version". It should be clearer, but it is there :-}

Right... You help prove my point, which is that this is pathetically inadequate.

The fact that nobody seems to care does not inspire confidence...

-Archie

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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Patrick Shanahan-2
* Archie Cobbs <[hidden email]> [12-06-13 18:13]:
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Carlos E. R.
 [...]

> > «Starting with openSUSE 11.2, a live upgrade from the prior version is
> > officially supported.»
> >
> > It says "from the prior version". It should be clearer, but it is
> > there :-}
>
> Right... You help prove my point, which is that this is pathetically
> inadequate.
>
> The fact that nobody seems to care does not inspire confidence...

Amazing.  Please assume *responsibility*.  It is not the world's fault
that you fail[ed] to read the release notes.  Or even the multitude of
posts in this forum where it has been *repeatedly* announced that while
sometimes an upgrade beyond the next version is successful, it is not
recommend or supported.  You *do* read where you post?

It is *your* own fault, assume the blame!

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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Cristian Rodríguez-2
In reply to this post by Archie Cobbs
El 05/12/13 18:56, Archie Cobbs escribió:
> I upgraded a machine yesterday via "zypper dup" from 12.2 -> 13.1.

dups skipping one distribution version are going to be very bumpy indeed..


>
> Problem #2: The upgrade hung during "Installing
> rtkit-0.11_git201205151338-5.2.1"
>
>   The stuck process was:  dbus-send --system --type=method_call
> --dest=org.freedesktop.DBus / org.freedesktop.DBus.ReloadConfig >
> /dev/null 2>&1
>
>   I had to kill -9 this process in order to get zypper running again.

Know problem.

> Problem #3: Several mkinitrd's failed due to "plymouth: symbol lookup
> error: plymouth: undefined symbol: ply_logger_is_tracing_enabled"


those come due to partial upgrade of plymouth, your installation was not
fully updated when mkinitrd ran..

It should one run once at the end of rpm transaction, but RPM
transactions are not used by zypp.


>   Several RPMs run the mkinitrd stuff in %post. At first these worked,
> then they started failing with the above error, and then later they
> started working again once plymouth had been installed. Perhaps there
> is a missing Requires(post): dependency?
>
> Problem #4: Multiple errors of the form "/etc/init.d/foo: No such file
> or directory"
>
>   For example:
>
>     Installing: at-3.1.13-5.4.1 ....
>     /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.DPrmiC: line 8: /etc/init.d/atd: No such file or directory

Expected.


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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Archie Cobbs
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan-2
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Patrick Shanahan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> * Archie Cobbs <[hidden email]> [12-06-13 18:13]:
>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Carlos E. R.
>  [...]
>> > «Starting with openSUSE 11.2, a live upgrade from the prior version is
>> > officially supported.»
>> >
>> > It says "from the prior version". It should be clearer, but it is
>> > there :-}
>>
>> Right... You help prove my point, which is that this is pathetically
>> inadequate.
>>
>> The fact that nobody seems to care does not inspire confidence...
>
> Amazing.  Please assume *responsibility*.  It is not the world's fault
> that you fail[ed] to read the release notes.  Or even the multitude of
> posts in this forum where it has been *repeatedly* announced that while
> sometimes an upgrade beyond the next version is successful, it is not
> recommend or supported.  You *do* read where you post?
>
> It is *your* own fault, assume the blame!

I have always accepted complete responsibility - after all, the
software is free and you get what you pay for, right?

That was never the issue. The point I'm trying to make: I don't know
who is in charge of the openSUSE project's "mission" or whatever (I'm
just a lowly user), but if the goal is to be a distribution where you
have to be in a special club and know all the secrets to be
successful, then let's keep doing what we're doing.

On the other hand, if the goal includes doing things to attract new
users who are not already openSUSE experts, the project has a
problems. In particular, allowing people to perform upgrades that
leave their systems unbootable - even if they are so outrageous as to
not read the release notes - is not helping that cause.

-Archie

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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Carlos E. R.-2
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On 2013-12-07 00:45, Archie Cobbs wrote:

> On the other hand, if the goal includes doing things to attract
> new users who are not already openSUSE experts, the project has a
> problems. In particular, allowing people to perform upgrades that
> leave their systems unbootable - even if they are so outrageous as
> to not read the release notes - is not helping that cause.

Then create bugzillas about those issues you find.

Those instructions are a wiki, you can enter the discussion page, or
add the information yourself (it has to be accepted by the supervisor
group). There are very few people writing those articles, help is
needed. I try to keep track of those I write, but the online update
page is not one of them. I do the offline upgrade one, and I need to
find time to add things to it.

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
    (from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith))
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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Jan Engelhardt-4
In reply to this post by Archie Cobbs

On Saturday 2013-12-07 00:45, Archie Cobbs wrote:
>
>if the goal is to be a distribution where you
>have to be in a special club and know all the secrets to be
>successful

Yes, we'll admit, you need passport A38 to make proper use of it…
Just like you need a driver's license and knowledge in handling
a particular vehicle to be succesful in using that.
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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Cristian Rodríguez-2
In reply to this post by Archie Cobbs
El 06/12/13 20:10, Archie Cobbs escribió:

> Right... You help prove my point, which is that this is pathetically inadequate.
>
> The fact that nobody seems to care does not inspire confidence...

Then propose a workable solution to deal with hundred or thousands of
likely problems that you might find when upgrading from 12.3 to 13.1.

It is pretty complicated actually..  It may be doable if we gain, let's
say 100 more developers and add another 8 months to the development
schedule..


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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Archie Cobbs
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 6:10 PM, Carlos E. R.
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Then create bugzillas about those issues you find.

As mentioned, I want to but wanted to run them by the list first.
Several have already been reported (as expected).

> Those instructions are a wiki, you can enter the discussion page, or
> add the information yourself (it has to be accepted by the supervisor
> group). There are very few people writing those articles, help is
> needed. I try to keep track of those I write, but the online update
> page is not one of them. I do the offline upgrade one, and I need to
> find time to add things to it.

I already did submit a wiki change as mentioned in the OP.

As for updating the zypper man page, here's pull request:
https://github.com/openSUSE/zypper/pull/42

As for altering the behavior of zypper itself, that's currently beyond
my ability (and would probably just annoy the zypper developers). But
I think this is an important and very needed addition.

-Archie

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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Archie Cobbs
In reply to this post by Cristian Rodríguez-2
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Cristian Rodríguez
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> El 06/12/13 20:10, Archie Cobbs escribió:
>
>> Right... You help prove my point, which is that this is pathetically inadequate.
>>
>> The fact that nobody seems to care does not inspire confidence...
>
> Then propose a workable solution to deal with hundred or thousands of
> likely problems that you might find when upgrading from 12.3 to 13.1.

I already proposed several solutions in the OP. They all are geared
toward preventing users from falling into the same trap that I did.
Trying to make zypper dup actually work across multiple releases would
be much harder and is not something I have ever suggested.

-Archie

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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Archie Cobbs
On 2013-12-07 03:43, Archie Cobbs wrote:

> As for altering the behavior of zypper itself, that's currently beyond
> my ability (and would probably just annoy the zypper developers). But
> I think this is an important and very needed addition.

You can use bugzilla with the feature request status, or enter a feature
request at <https://features.opensuse.org/>

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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Archie Cobbs
On 2013-12-07 03:45, Archie Cobbs wrote:

> I already proposed several solutions in the OP. They all are geared
> toward preventing users from falling into the same trap that I did.
> Trying to make zypper dup actually work across multiple releases would
> be much harder and is not something I have ever suggested.

But zypper has no idea how many distribution versions it is jumping
across. You change the repos, then you tell it to upgrade packages. In
fact, you can change the repos to an older release, tell it to upgrade
the distribution, and it will happily do the upgrade, which is in fact a
downgrade.

It is the administrator who has to know what he is doing ;-)

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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Stefan Seyfried
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan-2
Am 07.12.2013 00:22, schrieb Patrick Shanahan:

> It is *your* own fault, assume the blame!

While this is certainly one view of the issue, there is another one:

Could we do something in our software to avoid this happening?

Zypper recognizing that it is going to da version update and checking
the versions if they are "compatible" for updating, and if not issuing a
BIG FAT HONKING WARNING!

I have no idea how this could be implemented, but it is maybe something
to think about.
--
Stefan Seyfried
"If your lighter runs out of fluid or flint and stops making
 fire, and you can't be bothered to figure out about lighter
 fluid or flint, that is not Zippo's fault." -- bkw
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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Daniele
In data sabato 07 dicembre 2013 10:27:09, Stefan Seyfried ha scritto:

> Am 07.12.2013 00:22, schrieb Patrick Shanahan:
> > It is *your* own fault, assume the blame!
>
> While this is certainly one view of the issue, there is another one:
>
> Could we do something in our software to avoid this happening?
>
> Zypper recognizing that it is going to da version update and checking
> the versions if they are "compatible" for updating, and if not issuing
> a BIG FAT HONKING WARNING!
>
> I have no idea how this could be implemented, but it is maybe
> something to think about.

I think that at first we need rpm transaction. This for clean
installation and for avoid some issue.

Than, what about a script/software called after zypper dup that takes
care of special things that need to be done/checked/fixed ?

An upgrade package that check OS version and do the needed stuff at
least for fixing known issue. This package could be extendend at each
release so you could support upgrade from more release.

I mean:
upgrade from x.x to x.x+1 call upgrade-x.x-x.x+1.sh
upgrade from x.x to x.x+2 call upgrade-x.x--x.x-x.x+1.sh and upgrade-
x.x--x.x-x.x+2.sh

Clearly should be smart enough to do thing only if needed and only one
time.

Just an idea, I don't known if really doable...

Daniele.
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Re: zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail

Carlos E. R.-3
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On 2013-12-07 13:38, Daniele wrote:

> Than, what about a script/software called after zypper dup that
> takes care of special things that need to be done/checked/fixed ?
>
> An upgrade package that check OS version and do the needed stuff at
>  least for fixing known issue. This package could be extendend at
> each release so you could support upgrade from more release.

Not after, but before and after. Or instead of zypper dup, so that you
tell it the version to upgrade to, it takes care of changing the
repos, and of known issues.

>
> I mean: upgrade from x.x to x.x+1 call upgrade-x.x-x.x+1.sh upgrade
> from x.x to x.x+2 call upgrade-x.x--x.x-x.x+1.sh and upgrade-
> x.x--x.x-x.x+2.sh

Yes, something like that.

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
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