systemd the cancer that is killing linux

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systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Dirk Gently-2
https://fireden.net/4chan/g/40864938#p40868369

http://archive.rebeccablacktech.com/g/thread/31994292


And here not just systemd...but ...one of it's key authors...

"Poetterring is the cancer that is killing Linux."
https://sites.google.com/site/bl0ckeduserssoftware/rand


19:02 joecool ughhhhhh i fucking hate udev
19:03 joecool it is the cancer that is killing linux
19:03 nkuttler ACTION gives joecool a cookie
19:03 nkuttler joecool: you forgot pulseaudio and systemd
19:04 joecool nkuttler: systemd == udev now
19:04 joecool lennart is just the dr. kevorkian of the linux world

http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2014/02/26


Note the same connection I made earlier... udev and systemd...
both projects by the same guy, and both judged to be
causing more problems than they solve
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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Damian Ivanov
maybe your lack of intelligence is caused by brain cancer caused by
your systemd hate?

2014-06-01 1:50 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:

> https://fireden.net/4chan/g/40864938#p40868369
>
> http://archive.rebeccablacktech.com/g/thread/31994292
>
>
> And here not just systemd...but ...one of it's key authors...
>
> "Poetterring is the cancer that is killing Linux."
> https://sites.google.com/site/bl0ckeduserssoftware/rand
>
>
> 19:02   joecool         ughhhhhh i fucking hate udev
> 19:03   joecool         it is the cancer that is killing linux
> 19:03   nkuttler         ACTION gives joecool a cookie 19:03    nkuttler
> joecool: you forgot pulseaudio and systemd
> 19:04   joecool         nkuttler: systemd == udev now
> 19:04   joecool         lennart is just the dr. kevorkian of the linux world
>
> http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2014/02/26
>
>
> Note the same connection I made earlier... udev and systemd...
> both projects by the same guy, and both judged to be
> causing more problems than they solve
> --
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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Jesse Palser
WTF...

My mailbox is filled up with this B.S.
Just drop it and move forward already!

Jesse



On 6/1/2014 8:56 AM, Damian Ivanov wrote:

> maybe your lack of intelligence is caused by brain cancer caused by
> your systemd hate?
>
> 2014-06-01 1:50 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:
>> https://fireden.net/4chan/g/40864938#p40868369
>>
>> http://archive.rebeccablacktech.com/g/thread/31994292
>>
>>
>> And here not just systemd...but ...one of it's key authors...
>>
>> "Poetterring is the cancer that is killing Linux."
>> https://sites.google.com/site/bl0ckeduserssoftware/rand
>>
>>
>> 19:02   joecool         ughhhhhh i fucking hate udev
>> 19:03   joecool         it is the cancer that is killing linux
>> 19:03   nkuttler         ACTION gives joecool a cookie 19:03    nkuttler
>> joecool: you forgot pulseaudio and systemd
>> 19:04   joecool         nkuttler: systemd == udev now
>> 19:04   joecool         lennart is just the dr. kevorkian of the linux world
>>
>> http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2014/02/26
>>
>>
>> Note the same connection I made earlier... udev and systemd...
>> both projects by the same guy, and both judged to be
>> causing more problems than they solve
>> --
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>

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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Dylan-13
In reply to this post by Dirk Gently-2
On 01/06/14 00:50, Dirk Gently wrote:

[SNIP: A load of rubbish]

If you spent as much time and energy doing something *productive* about
it (or even in life generally) your mind might be opened and the world
might become a better place.
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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Dirk Gently-2
Dylan wrote:
> On 01/06/14 00:50, Dirk Gently wrote:
>
> [SNIP: A load of rubbish]
>
> If you spent as much time and energy doing something *productive* about it (or even in life
> generally) your mind might be opened and the world might become a better place.

Or perhaps you're so fascinated with "shiny new thing" that you utterly opposed to looking at and
evaluating the problems it introduces... because apparently ALL change is "progress" to some people.

If it wasn't worth discussing, I wouldn't waste my fucking time to do so.
Get a clue.


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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Damian Ivanov
systemd is without alternative? great people like systemd. get over it.

2014-06-02 8:28 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:

> Dylan wrote:
>>
>> On 01/06/14 00:50, Dirk Gently wrote:
>>
>> [SNIP: A load of rubbish]
>>
>> If you spent as much time and energy doing something *productive* about it
>> (or even in life
>> generally) your mind might be opened and the world might become a better
>> place.
>
>
> Or perhaps you're so fascinated with "shiny new thing" that you utterly
> opposed to looking at and evaluating the problems it introduces... because
> apparently ALL change is "progress" to some people.
>
> If it wasn't worth discussing, I wouldn't waste my fucking time to do so.
> Get a clue.
>
>
> --
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> To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Doug McGarrett

On 06/02/2014 02:33 AM, Damian Ivanov wrote:

> systemd is without alternative? great people like systemd. get over it.
>
> 2014-06-02 8:28 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:
>> Dylan wrote:
>>> On 01/06/14 00:50, Dirk Gently wrote:
>>>
>>> [SNIP: A load of rubbish]
>>>
>>> If you spent as much time and energy doing something *productive* about it
>>> (or even in life
>>> generally) your mind might be opened and the world might become a better
>>> place.
>>
>> Or perhaps you're so fascinated with "shiny new thing" that you utterly
>> opposed to looking at and evaluating the problems it introduces... because
>> apparently ALL change is "progress" to some people.
>>
>> If it wasn't worth discussing, I wouldn't waste my fucking time to do so.
>> Get a clue.
>>
>>
I think there are devs who monkey with the code just keep doing
something, not
because there is something that _needs_ to be changed or replaced. Anne
Landers
said it a long time ago: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

--doug
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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Dirk Gently-2
In reply to this post by Damian Ivanov
Damian Ivanov wrote:
> systemd is without alternative?

Hey, Damian, have the past 20 years taught you absolutely NOTHING about the concept of software
lock-in, and how that is NOT good for users

> great

No, it isn't.  See above.


> people like systemd.

Naive people like systemd.
People who never have to write start-up scripts might like systemd.

People who actually want (or are paid to) have control of their computers are necessarily horrified
by systemd, because it has become a leviathan, and an ill-mannered, ill-tempered one at that.

 > get over it.

How about YOU get over me and the multitudes of others not liking sytemd.
Systemd is fundamentally flawed, because it is broken at the design level.

Poettering and Sievert can't explain what systemd is supposed to do in a paragraph or less.
Instead, they tell you to read some hundreds of pages of aimless, rambling bullshit.

To any intelligent person, that alone raises all sorts of red flags.
I guess you're not one of them.



>
> 2014-06-02 8:28 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:
>> Dylan wrote:
>>>
>>> On 01/06/14 00:50, Dirk Gently wrote:
>>>
>>> [SNIP: A load of rubbish]
>>>
>>> If you spent as much time and energy doing something *productive* about it
>>> (or even in life
>>> generally) your mind might be opened and the world might become a better
>>> place.
>>
>>
>> Or perhaps you're so fascinated with "shiny new thing" that you utterly
>> opposed to looking at and evaluating the problems it introduces... because
>> apparently ALL change is "progress" to some people.
>>
>> If it wasn't worth discussing, I wouldn't waste my fucking time to do so.
>> Get a clue.
>>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>

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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Damian Ivanov
>>People who actually want (or are paid to) have control of their computers are necessarily horrified by systemd, because it has become a leviathan, and an ill-mannered, ill-tempered one at that.
I am paid Linux support engineer and love systemd.

I am not the one getting over anything? You don't like systemd? ok,
everyone on the list got that. It still isn't going away will you spam
me until it's going away (like not the next years).

2014-06-02 8:58 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:

> Damian Ivanov wrote:
>>
>> systemd is without alternative?
>
>
> Hey, Damian, have the past 20 years taught you absolutely NOTHING about the
> concept of software lock-in, and how that is NOT good for users
>
>> great
>
>
> No, it isn't.  See above.
>
>
>> people like systemd.
>
>
> Naive people like systemd.
> People who never have to write start-up scripts might like systemd.
>
> People who actually want (or are paid to) have control of their computers
> are necessarily horrified by systemd, because it has become a leviathan, and
> an ill-mannered, ill-tempered one at that.
>
>> get over it.
>
> How about YOU get over me and the multitudes of others not liking sytemd.
> Systemd is fundamentally flawed, because it is broken at the design level.
>
> Poettering and Sievert can't explain what systemd is supposed to do in a
> paragraph or less.
> Instead, they tell you to read some hundreds of pages of aimless, rambling
> bullshit.
>
> To any intelligent person, that alone raises all sorts of red flags.
> I guess you're not one of them.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> 2014-06-02 8:28 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:
>>>
>>> Dylan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 01/06/14 00:50, Dirk Gently wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [SNIP: A load of rubbish]
>>>>
>>>> If you spent as much time and energy doing something *productive* about
>>>> it
>>>> (or even in life
>>>> generally) your mind might be opened and the world might become a better
>>>> place.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Or perhaps you're so fascinated with "shiny new thing" that you utterly
>>> opposed to looking at and evaluating the problems it introduces...
>>> because
>>> apparently ALL change is "progress" to some people.
>>>
>>> If it wasn't worth discussing, I wouldn't waste my fucking time to do so.
>>> Get a clue.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>> To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>
>
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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Dirk Gently-2
In reply to this post by Doug McGarrett
Doug wrote:

>
> On 06/02/2014 02:33 AM, Damian Ivanov wrote:
>> systemd is without alternative? great people like systemd. get over it.
>>
>> 2014-06-02 8:28 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:
>>> Dylan wrote:
>>>> On 01/06/14 00:50, Dirk Gently wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [SNIP: A load of rubbish]
>>>>
>>>> If you spent as much time and energy doing something *productive* about it
>>>> (or even in life
>>>> generally) your mind might be opened and the world might become a better
>>>> place.
>>>
>>> Or perhaps you're so fascinated with "shiny new thing" that you utterly
>>> opposed to looking at and evaluating the problems it introduces... because
>>> apparently ALL change is "progress" to some people.
>>>
>>> If it wasn't worth discussing, I wouldn't waste my fucking time to do so.
>>> Get a clue.
>>>
>>>
> I think there are devs who monkey with the code just keep doing something, not
> because there is something that _needs_ to be changed or replaced. Anne Landers
> said it a long time ago: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

You're spot on, Doug.

This is precisely the problem.

mount wasn't broken, yet systemd has usurped it.
login wasn't broken, yet systemd has usurped it.
cron wasn't broken, yet systemd has usurbed it.
etc. etc. etc.

All in the name of saving a few seconds of boot tgime.

Defending Sievert and Poetterings pile of crap is a fool's errand.

This is the Linux equivalent of those ridiculous artillery pieces the Germans
built to use in Russia -- the ones that needed TWO rail lines just for the gun
carraiges, which took WEEKS to assemble in the field, required an entire BATTALION
of men (not including the railroad company) to operate a single operating gun,
and which required over an HOUR to reload after firing.

Was that gun design impressive in its raw capability  ? Absolutely.

Did it make any positive impact on Germany's war effort?  Nope -- those same resources (in terms of
steel to produce gun-tubes and ammunition, and artillery men and officers to operate the things in
the field) if put into say, standard 150mm artillery pieces, or even 205mm artillery pieces, would
have been far more influential.  This doesn't even touch the amount of time of engineers and
designers which was wasted on this (rather than being put to use in other more productive pursuits),
nor the amount of factory space, and tooling required to manufacture these white-elephants in the
first place.


OVER-FUCKING-ENGINEERED to the point of being far more of a hindrance than a benefit.


And that's what systemd is.

And yet it still isn't anywhere close to achieving it's original purpose -- reducing boot time (as
if that's a major concern... why in the fuck should I care if my boot time is 90 seconds or 75
seconds?  I don't sit around rebooting my computer all day, AND NEITHER DOES ANYBODY ELSE!!!!


>
> --doug

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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Dirk Gently-2
In reply to this post by Damian Ivanov
Damian Ivanov wrote:
>>> People who actually want (or are paid to) have control of their computers are necessarily horrified by systemd, because it has become a leviathan, and an ill-mannered, ill-tempered one at that.
> I am paid Linux support engineer and love systemd.
>
> I am not the one getting over anything? You don't like systemd? ok,
> everyone on the list got that. It still isn't going away will you spam
> me until it's going away (like not the next years).


Befor you make another unfounded accusation, why don't you bother learning whta the fuck spam is.

Clue: The definition of spam is NOT: "messages on an email list that Damian Ivanov doesn't like."

Now, stop being a lying asshole, and shut the fuck up.

Don't like my tone?  Then don't accuse me of spamming when I'm not.


>
> 2014-06-02 8:58 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:
>> Damian Ivanov wrote:
>>>
>>> systemd is without alternative?
>>
>>
>> Hey, Damian, have the past 20 years taught you absolutely NOTHING about the
>> concept of software lock-in, and how that is NOT good for users
>>
>>> great
>>
>>
>> No, it isn't.  See above.
>>
>>
>>> people like systemd.
>>
>>
>> Naive people like systemd.
>> People who never have to write start-up scripts might like systemd.
>>
>> People who actually want (or are paid to) have control of their computers
>> are necessarily horrified by systemd, because it has become a leviathan, and
>> an ill-mannered, ill-tempered one at that.
>>
>>> get over it.
>>
>> How about YOU get over me and the multitudes of others not liking sytemd.
>> Systemd is fundamentally flawed, because it is broken at the design level.
>>
>> Poettering and Sievert can't explain what systemd is supposed to do in a
>> paragraph or less.
>> Instead, they tell you to read some hundreds of pages of aimless, rambling
>> bullshit.
>>
>> To any intelligent person, that alone raises all sorts of red flags.
>> I guess you're not one of them.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 2014-06-02 8:28 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:
>>>>
>>>> Dylan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 01/06/14 00:50, Dirk Gently wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [SNIP: A load of rubbish]
>>>>>
>>>>> If you spent as much time and energy doing something *productive* about
>>>>> it
>>>>> (or even in life
>>>>> generally) your mind might be opened and the world might become a better
>>>>> place.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or perhaps you're so fascinated with "shiny new thing" that you utterly
>>>> opposed to looking at and evaluating the problems it introduces...
>>>> because
>>>> apparently ALL change is "progress" to some people.
>>>>
>>>> If it wasn't worth discussing, I wouldn't waste my fucking time to do so.
>>>> Get a clue.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>> To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>

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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Damian Ivanov
Nothing is over-engineered. It's simple. login was broken. multiseat,
logind is must, yes I have such devices.
Go shoot yourself and think about systemd.

2014-06-02 9:13 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:

> Damian Ivanov wrote:
>>>>
>>>> People who actually want (or are paid to) have control of their
>>>> computers are necessarily horrified by systemd, because it has become a
>>>> leviathan, and an ill-mannered, ill-tempered one at that.
>>
>> I am paid Linux support engineer and love systemd.
>>
>> I am not the one getting over anything? You don't like systemd? ok,
>> everyone on the list got that. It still isn't going away will you spam
>> me until it's going away (like not the next years).
>
>
>
> Befor you make another unfounded accusation, why don't you bother learning
> whta the fuck spam is.
>
> Clue: The definition of spam is NOT: "messages on an email list that Damian
> Ivanov doesn't like."
>
> Now, stop being a lying asshole, and shut the fuck up.
>
> Don't like my tone?  Then don't accuse me of spamming when I'm not.
>
>
>
>>
>> 2014-06-02 8:58 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:
>>>
>>> Damian Ivanov wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> systemd is without alternative?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey, Damian, have the past 20 years taught you absolutely NOTHING about
>>> the
>>> concept of software lock-in, and how that is NOT good for users
>>>
>>>> great
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No, it isn't.  See above.
>>>
>>>
>>>> people like systemd.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Naive people like systemd.
>>> People who never have to write start-up scripts might like systemd.
>>>
>>> People who actually want (or are paid to) have control of their computers
>>> are necessarily horrified by systemd, because it has become a leviathan,
>>> and
>>> an ill-mannered, ill-tempered one at that.
>>>
>>>> get over it.
>>>
>>>
>>> How about YOU get over me and the multitudes of others not liking sytemd.
>>> Systemd is fundamentally flawed, because it is broken at the design
>>> level.
>>>
>>> Poettering and Sievert can't explain what systemd is supposed to do in a
>>> paragraph or less.
>>> Instead, they tell you to read some hundreds of pages of aimless,
>>> rambling
>>> bullshit.
>>>
>>> To any intelligent person, that alone raises all sorts of red flags.
>>> I guess you're not one of them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2014-06-02 8:28 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dylan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01/06/14 00:50, Dirk Gently wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [SNIP: A load of rubbish]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you spent as much time and energy doing something *productive*
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> (or even in life
>>>>>> generally) your mind might be opened and the world might become a
>>>>>> better
>>>>>> place.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Or perhaps you're so fascinated with "shiny new thing" that you utterly
>>>>> opposed to looking at and evaluating the problems it introduces...
>>>>> because
>>>>> apparently ALL change is "progress" to some people.
>>>>>
>>>>> If it wasn't worth discussing, I wouldn't waste my fucking time to do
>>>>> so.
>>>>> Get a clue.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>> To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>> To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>
>
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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Damian Ivanov
*sarcasm* I am not telling you to end your life.

2014-06-02 9:14 GMT+02:00 Damian Ivanov <[hidden email]>:

> Nothing is over-engineered. It's simple. login was broken. multiseat,
> logind is must, yes I have such devices.
> Go shoot yourself and think about systemd.
>
> 2014-06-02 9:13 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:
>> Damian Ivanov wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> People who actually want (or are paid to) have control of their
>>>>> computers are necessarily horrified by systemd, because it has become a
>>>>> leviathan, and an ill-mannered, ill-tempered one at that.
>>>
>>> I am paid Linux support engineer and love systemd.
>>>
>>> I am not the one getting over anything? You don't like systemd? ok,
>>> everyone on the list got that. It still isn't going away will you spam
>>> me until it's going away (like not the next years).
>>
>>
>>
>> Befor you make another unfounded accusation, why don't you bother learning
>> whta the fuck spam is.
>>
>> Clue: The definition of spam is NOT: "messages on an email list that Damian
>> Ivanov doesn't like."
>>
>> Now, stop being a lying asshole, and shut the fuck up.
>>
>> Don't like my tone?  Then don't accuse me of spamming when I'm not.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 2014-06-02 8:58 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:
>>>>
>>>> Damian Ivanov wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> systemd is without alternative?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey, Damian, have the past 20 years taught you absolutely NOTHING about
>>>> the
>>>> concept of software lock-in, and how that is NOT good for users
>>>>
>>>>> great
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, it isn't.  See above.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> people like systemd.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Naive people like systemd.
>>>> People who never have to write start-up scripts might like systemd.
>>>>
>>>> People who actually want (or are paid to) have control of their computers
>>>> are necessarily horrified by systemd, because it has become a leviathan,
>>>> and
>>>> an ill-mannered, ill-tempered one at that.
>>>>
>>>>> get over it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How about YOU get over me and the multitudes of others not liking sytemd.
>>>> Systemd is fundamentally flawed, because it is broken at the design
>>>> level.
>>>>
>>>> Poettering and Sievert can't explain what systemd is supposed to do in a
>>>> paragraph or less.
>>>> Instead, they tell you to read some hundreds of pages of aimless,
>>>> rambling
>>>> bullshit.
>>>>
>>>> To any intelligent person, that alone raises all sorts of red flags.
>>>> I guess you're not one of them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2014-06-02 8:28 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dylan wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 01/06/14 00:50, Dirk Gently wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [SNIP: A load of rubbish]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you spent as much time and energy doing something *productive*
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> (or even in life
>>>>>>> generally) your mind might be opened and the world might become a
>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>> place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or perhaps you're so fascinated with "shiny new thing" that you utterly
>>>>>> opposed to looking at and evaluating the problems it introduces...
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> apparently ALL change is "progress" to some people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it wasn't worth discussing, I wouldn't waste my fucking time to do
>>>>>> so.
>>>>>> Get a clue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Damian Ivanov
I apologize to the list for stepping over the mailing list etiquette.

Dirk, if you have something to discuss, let's keep it completely technical, ok?
Can we agree to close that thread and go back to the 1st one "Why is
systemd[1] is mounting noauto partitions?". I didn't mean you should
shoot yourself, that was a mistake and I apologize.

2014-06-02 9:18 GMT+02:00 Damian Ivanov <[hidden email]>:

> *sarcasm* I am not telling you to end your life.
>
> 2014-06-02 9:14 GMT+02:00 Damian Ivanov <[hidden email]>:
>> Nothing is over-engineered. It's simple. login was broken. multiseat,
>> logind is must, yes I have such devices.
>> Go shoot yourself and think about systemd.
>>
>> 2014-06-02 9:13 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:
>>> Damian Ivanov wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> People who actually want (or are paid to) have control of their
>>>>>> computers are necessarily horrified by systemd, because it has become a
>>>>>> leviathan, and an ill-mannered, ill-tempered one at that.
>>>>
>>>> I am paid Linux support engineer and love systemd.
>>>>
>>>> I am not the one getting over anything? You don't like systemd? ok,
>>>> everyone on the list got that. It still isn't going away will you spam
>>>> me until it's going away (like not the next years).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Befor you make another unfounded accusation, why don't you bother learning
>>> whta the fuck spam is.
>>>
>>> Clue: The definition of spam is NOT: "messages on an email list that Damian
>>> Ivanov doesn't like."
>>>
>>> Now, stop being a lying asshole, and shut the fuck up.
>>>
>>> Don't like my tone?  Then don't accuse me of spamming when I'm not.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2014-06-02 8:58 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>
>>>>> Damian Ivanov wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> systemd is without alternative?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey, Damian, have the past 20 years taught you absolutely NOTHING about
>>>>> the
>>>>> concept of software lock-in, and how that is NOT good for users
>>>>>
>>>>>> great
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it isn't.  See above.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> people like systemd.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Naive people like systemd.
>>>>> People who never have to write start-up scripts might like systemd.
>>>>>
>>>>> People who actually want (or are paid to) have control of their computers
>>>>> are necessarily horrified by systemd, because it has become a leviathan,
>>>>> and
>>>>> an ill-mannered, ill-tempered one at that.
>>>>>
>>>>>> get over it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How about YOU get over me and the multitudes of others not liking sytemd.
>>>>> Systemd is fundamentally flawed, because it is broken at the design
>>>>> level.
>>>>>
>>>>> Poettering and Sievert can't explain what systemd is supposed to do in a
>>>>> paragraph or less.
>>>>> Instead, they tell you to read some hundreds of pages of aimless,
>>>>> rambling
>>>>> bullshit.
>>>>>
>>>>> To any intelligent person, that alone raises all sorts of red flags.
>>>>> I guess you're not one of them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2014-06-02 8:28 GMT+02:00 Dirk Gently <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dylan wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 01/06/14 00:50, Dirk Gently wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [SNIP: A load of rubbish]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you spent as much time and energy doing something *productive*
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> (or even in life
>>>>>>>> generally) your mind might be opened and the world might become a
>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>> place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or perhaps you're so fascinated with "shiny new thing" that you utterly
>>>>>>> opposed to looking at and evaluating the problems it introduces...
>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>> apparently ALL change is "progress" to some people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If it wasn't worth discussing, I wouldn't waste my fucking time to do
>>>>>>> so.
>>>>>>> Get a clue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>
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>>>
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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Dylan-13
In reply to this post by Dirk Gently-2
On 02/06/14 07:28, Dirk Gently wrote:

> Dylan wrote:
>> On 01/06/14 00:50, Dirk Gently wrote:
>>
>> [SNIP: A load of rubbish]
>>
>> If you spent as much time and energy doing something *productive*
>> about it (or even in life
>> generally) your mind might be opened and the world might become a
>> better place.
>
> Or perhaps you're so fascinated with "shiny new thing" that you utterly
> opposed to looking at and evaluating the problems it introduces...
> because apparently ALL change is "progress" to some people.
>

I have no particular feeling either way about systemd - there are no
discernible problems with it on my systems. The previous system had
(has) some serious problems and caused me quite a few headaches which
"just disappeared" after the change. In general, though, the underlying
mechanisms of how the system sorts itself out in the background are of
no special interest to me, as I'm sure they aren't to many other users.
Some change is progress, some change is neutral and some change is
regressive.

> If it wasn't worth discussing, I wouldn't waste my fucking time to do so.
> Get a clue.

I have plenty of clues, thank you, but arguing with your kind of
attitude is pointless - it's a shame you don't take a view similar to
your pseudonymous character and see the interconnectedness of all things.

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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Damian Ivanov
On 2014-06-02 09:23, Damian Ivanov wrote:
> I apologize to the list for stepping over the mailing list etiquette.
>
> Dirk, if you have something to discuss, let's keep it completely technical, ok?
> Can we agree to close that thread and go back to the 1st one "Why is
> systemd[1] is mounting noauto partitions?". I didn't mean you should
> shoot yourself, that was a mistake and I apologize.

No, it is pointless to argue anything with him, he poisons what could be
valid points with insults. It is best to simply ignore him, as it seems
that the listmaster can not keep him out (yes, he was already banned,
but he creates new emails to come back and bypass filters).


And for the record, I do not like systemd. I accept it, I live with it,
try to learn its ways, but I do not like it. :-)

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                (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)


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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Daniel Bauer


Am 02.06.2014 14:32, schrieb Carlos E. R.:

> On 2014-06-02 09:23, Damian Ivanov wrote:
>> I apologize to the list for stepping over the mailing list etiquette.
>>
>> Dirk, if you have something to discuss, let's keep it completely technical, ok?
>> Can we agree to close that thread and go back to the 1st one "Why is
>> systemd[1] is mounting noauto partitions?". I didn't mean you should
>> shoot yourself, that was a mistake and I apologize.
>
> No, it is pointless to argue anything with him, he poisons what could be
> valid points with insults. It is best to simply ignore him, as it seems
> that the listmaster can not keep him out (yes, he was already banned,
> but he creates new emails to come back and bypass filters).
>
>
> And for the record, I do not like systemd. I accept it, I live with it,
> try to learn its ways, but I do not like it. :-)
>

Yes, and it's a shame.

I would have loved to learn about the pros and cons and the impact it
has or could have for a "common user" like me.

But the little information is cluttered by useless words, not even
creative insults that would help to enrich my english swearing vocabulary...

Well, that's life. Not everybody boots to full functionality. Even
without systemd.

Daniel
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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Dirk Gently-2
In reply to this post by Dylan-13
Dylan wrote:

> On 02/06/14 07:28, Dirk Gently wrote:
>> Dylan wrote:
>>> On 01/06/14 00:50, Dirk Gently wrote:
>>>
>>> [SNIP: A load of rubbish]
>>>
>>> If you spent as much time and energy doing something *productive*
>>> about it (or even in life
>>> generally) your mind might be opened and the world might become a
>>> better place.
>>
>> Or perhaps you're so fascinated with "shiny new thing" that you utterly
>> opposed to looking at and evaluating the problems it introduces...
>> because apparently ALL change is "progress" to some people.
>>
>
> I have no particular feeling either way about systemd - there are no discernible problems with it on
> my systems. The previous system had (has) some serious problems and caused me quite a few headaches
> which "just disappeared" after the change. In general, though, the underlying mechanisms of how the
> system sorts itself out in the background are of no special interest to me, as I'm sure they aren't
> to many other users. Some change is progress, some change is neutral and some change is regressive.
>


So in other words, you've never had to customize your machine other than the use of yast.
Ore to put it simply -- you're a newbie with no "special case" situations.  With init, openrc,
and upstart, customizations are easy... write a shell-script to solve the problem.  With systemd,
you have to hunt through oodles of files, and opaque documentation to solve simple tasks.

Let it put it to you bluntly -- systemd BREAKS a lot of pre-existing mechanims and customization
scripts, all of , which you seem to be blissfully unaware of.

As a computing professional, I always hated working on AIX systems, because they gratuitously broke
the traditional format of unix configuration files so as to reconfigure everything into the "stanza"
format used on IBM mainframes.

So the result was that on an AIX machine, I could see the configuration for 3 or 4 filesytems on my
screen at one time before having to scroll through the config file....whereas on ANY non-AIX Unix
machine, I could review DOZENS of filesystem mounts without having to scroll up or down.


Change for the sake of fucking change is NOT a good thing...especially when the result is worse.

Systemd commits DOZENS of gratuitous changes for no other reason than the point of change.
Traditional, well-understood tools and techniques are DELIBERATELY broken, without any recourse
other than invoking system-wasting work-arounds.

Systemd is merely exchanging one set of problems for a far bigger set of problems.  I won't even
to into the Quisling in the kernel team, and Poettering's and Sievert's narcisstic attitude that
systemd is THE ONLY POSSIBLE WAY to solve any of the shortcomings of SysVinit.  Not the best
way, but the ONLY way.

Any time a programmer tells you that there is absolutely NO other way to solve a problem other than
the way he's writing, that tells me that he simply can't imagine an alternate solution, and thus, is
not nearly as good a programmer as he believes himself to be.

Either that, or he's lying to you.



>> If it wasn't worth discussing, I wouldn't waste my fucking time to do so.
>> Get a clue.
>
> I have plenty of clues, thank you, but arguing with your kind of attitude is pointless - it's a
> shame you don't take a view similar to your pseudonymous character and see the interconnectedness of
> all things.
>

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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Dirk Gently-2
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2014-06-02 09:23, Damian Ivanov wrote:
>> I apologize to the list for stepping over the mailing list etiquette.
>>
>> Dirk, if you have something to discuss, let's keep it completely technical, ok?
>> Can we agree to close that thread and go back to the 1st one "Why is
>> systemd[1] is mounting noauto partitions?". I didn't mean you should
>> shoot yourself, that was a mistake and I apologize.
>
> No, it is pointless to argue anything with him, he poisons what could be
> valid points with insults.


Yeah, right, Carlos. Werner tosses out a couple of blatant lies, then starts throwing out insults
and you blame *ME* fopr poisoning the discussion.

Fuck you, Carlos.


Clue for the all of the god-damnmed fucking clueless on this list: If you or anyone else on this
list doesn't t want to be called a fucking lying asshole, then don't BE a  fucking lying asshole.
If you don't want me to call you names, then don't YOU call me names.

It's really quite that simple.

IU'm sure most of you are smart enough to figure it out.... but you would all rather play schoolyard
games of punch somebody, and then scream loudly when you get hit back.

Again, fuck you.

>  It is best to simply ignore him, as it seems
> that the listmaster can not keep him out (yes, he was already banned,
> but he creates new emails to come back and bypass filters).
>
>
> And for the record, I do not like systemd. I accept it, I live with it,
> try to learn its ways, but I do not like it. :-)
>

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Re: systemd the cancer that is killing linux

Mike-207
On Monday, June 02, 2014 04:02:46 PM Dirk Gently wrote:

> Carlos E. R. wrote:
> > On 2014-06-02 09:23, Damian Ivanov wrote:
> >> I apologize to the list for stepping over the mailing list etiquette.
> >>
>
> >  It is best to simply ignore him, as it seems
> >
> > that the listmaster can not keep him out (yes, he was already banned,
> > but he creates new emails to come back and bypass filters).
> >
> >
> > And for the record, I do not like systemd. I accept it, I live with it,
> > try to learn its ways, but I do not like it. :-)

Bit Bucket
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