release-notes-openSUSE requires google-opensans-fonts

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release-notes-openSUSE requires google-opensans-fonts

Felix Miata-3
TW
$SUBJECT can't be right, but trying to zypper rm opensans wants to remove
releasenotes. :-(
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Re: release-notes-openSUSE requires google-opensans-fonts

Johannes Meixner

Hello,

$SUBJECT is right and it is intentional
but I cannot know why - seems to be top secret ;-)


Rick Salevsky,
what is the reason that release-notes-openSUSE requires
google-opensans-fonts and dejavu-fonts?

There are zero comments in release-notes-openSUSE.spec or
release-notes-openSUSE.changes that could tell something
about why this requirement exists.


On Apr 10 02:25 Felix Miata wrote (excerpt):
> TW
> $SUBJECT can't be right, but trying to zypper rm opensans
> wants to remove releasenotes. :-(

Felix Miata,
what is the reason that you want to remove google-opensans-fonts?


FYI:
On my openSUSE Tumbleweed system (not the newest one):
----------------------------------------------------------------------
# cat /etc/os-release
NAME=openSUSE
VERSION="20150227 (Tumbleweed)"

# rpm -e --test google-opensans-fonts
error: Failed dependencies:
   google-opensans-fonts is needed by (installed)
   release-notes-openSUSE-13.2.20150107-1.2.noarch

# rpm -q --requires release-notes-openSUSE-13.2.20150107-1.2.noarch
dejavu-fonts
google-opensans-fonts
...

# osc develproject openSUSE:Factory release-notes-openSUSE
Documentation

# osc cat Documentation release-notes-openSUSE release-notes-openSUSE.spec
  | grep ^Requires
Requires:       dejavu-fonts
Requires:       google-opensans-fonts

# osc maintainer release-notes-openSUSE
Defined in project:  Documentation:Auto
   bugowner of release-notes-openSUSE :
    -
   maintainer of release-notes-openSUSE :
    rsalevsky

# osc whois rsalevsky
rsalevsky: "Rick Salevsky" <[hidden email]>
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Kind Regards
Johannes Meixner
--
SUSE LINUX GmbH - GF: Felix Imendoerffer, Jane Smithard, Jennifer Guild,
Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton - HRB 21284 (AG Nuernberg)

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Re: release-notes-openSUSE requires google-opensans-fonts

Richard Brown
On 10 April 2015 at 10:31, Johannes Meixner <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> $SUBJECT is right and it is intentional
> but I cannot know why - seems to be top secret ;-)
>
>
> Rick Salevsky,
> what is the reason that release-notes-openSUSE requires
> google-opensans-fonts and dejavu-fonts?
>
> There are zero comments in release-notes-openSUSE.spec or
> release-notes-openSUSE.changes that could tell something
> about why this requirement exists.

The use of Open Sans Fonts would be consistent with the openSUSE
branding guidelines... http://opensuse.github.io/branding-guidelines/

Maybe the html version of the release notes is going in that direction?

>
>
> On Apr 10 02:25 Felix Miata wrote (excerpt):
>>
>> TW
>> $SUBJECT can't be right, but trying to zypper rm opensans
>> wants to remove releasenotes. :-(
>
>
> Felix Miata,
> what is the reason that you want to remove google-opensans-fonts?
>
>
> FYI:
> On my openSUSE Tumbleweed system (not the newest one):
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> # cat /etc/os-release
> NAME=openSUSE
> VERSION="20150227 (Tumbleweed)"
>
> # rpm -e --test google-opensans-fonts
> error: Failed dependencies:
>   google-opensans-fonts is needed by (installed)
>   release-notes-openSUSE-13.2.20150107-1.2.noarch
>
> # rpm -q --requires release-notes-openSUSE-13.2.20150107-1.2.noarch
> dejavu-fonts
> google-opensans-fonts
> ...
>
> # osc develproject openSUSE:Factory release-notes-openSUSE
> Documentation
>
> # osc cat Documentation release-notes-openSUSE release-notes-openSUSE.spec
>  | grep ^Requires
> Requires:       dejavu-fonts
> Requires:       google-opensans-fonts
>
> # osc maintainer release-notes-openSUSE
> Defined in project:  Documentation:Auto
>   bugowner of release-notes-openSUSE :
>    -
>   maintainer of release-notes-openSUSE :
>    rsalevsky
>
> # osc whois rsalevsky
> rsalevsky: "Rick Salevsky" <[hidden email]>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Kind Regards
> Johannes Meixner
> --
> SUSE LINUX GmbH - GF: Felix Imendoerffer, Jane Smithard, Jennifer Guild,
> Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton - HRB 21284 (AG Nuernberg)
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
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Re: release-notes-openSUSE requires google-opensans-fonts

Richard Brown-2
In reply to this post by Johannes Meixner
On Fri, 2015-04-10 at 10:31 +0200, Johannes Meixner wrote:

> Hello,
>
> $SUBJECT is right and it is intentional
> but I cannot know why - seems to be top secret ;-)
>
>
> Rick Salevsky,
> what is the reason that release-notes-openSUSE requires
> google-opensans-fonts and dejavu-fonts?
>
> There are zero comments in release-notes-openSUSE.spec or
> release-notes-openSUSE.changes that could tell something
> about why this requirement exists.

The use of Open Sans Fonts would be consistent with the openSUSE
branding guidelines... http://opensuse.github.io/branding-guidelines/

Maybe the html version of the release notes is going in that direction?

>
>
> On Apr 10 02:25 Felix Miata wrote (excerpt):
> > TW
> > $SUBJECT can't be right, but trying to zypper rm opensans
> > wants to remove releasenotes. :-(
>
> Felix Miata,
> what is the reason that you want to remove google-opensans-fonts?
>
>
> FYI:
> On my openSUSE Tumbleweed system (not the newest one):
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> # cat /etc/os-release
> NAME=openSUSE
> VERSION="20150227 (Tumbleweed)"
>
> # rpm -e --test google-opensans-fonts
> error: Failed dependencies:
>    google-opensans-fonts is needed by (installed)
>    release-notes-openSUSE-13.2.20150107-1.2.noarch
>
> # rpm -q --requires release-notes-openSUSE-13.2.20150107-1.2.noarch
> dejavu-fonts
> google-opensans-fonts
> ...
>
> # osc develproject openSUSE:Factory release-notes-openSUSE
> Documentation
>
> # osc cat Documentation release-notes-openSUSE release-notes-
> openSUSE.spec
>   | grep ^Requires
> Requires:       dejavu-fonts
> Requires:       google-opensans-fonts
>
> # osc maintainer release-notes-openSUSE
> Defined in project:  Documentation:Auto
>    bugowner of release-notes-openSUSE :
>     -
>    maintainer of release-notes-openSUSE :
>     rsalevsky
>
> # osc whois rsalevsky
> rsalevsky: "Rick Salevsky" <[hidden email]>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>
>
> Kind Regards
> Johannes Meixner
> --
> SUSE LINUX GmbH - GF: Felix Imendoerffer, Jane Smithard, Jennifer
> Guild,
> Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton - HRB 21284 (AG Nuernberg)
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]
>

--

Richard Brown
QA Engineer
openSUSE Chairman
 
Phone +4991174053-361
SUSE LINUX GmbH,  Maxfeldstr. 5,  D-90409 Nuernberg
GF: Felix Imend├Ârffer, Jane Smithard, Jennifer Guild, Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG N├╝rnberg)










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Re: release-notes-openSUSE requires google-opensans-fonts

Rick Salevsky
In reply to this post by Richard Brown
On Fri, 2015-04-10 at 10:36 +0200, Richard Brown wrote:

> On 10 April 2015 at 10:31, Johannes Meixner <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > $SUBJECT is right and it is intentional
> > but I cannot know why - seems to be top secret ;-)
> >
> >
> > Rick Salevsky,
> > what is the reason that release-notes-openSUSE requires
> > google-opensans-fonts and dejavu-fonts?
> >
> > There are zero comments in release-notes-openSUSE.spec or
> > release-notes-openSUSE.changes that could tell something
> > about why this requirement exists.
>
> The use of Open Sans Fonts would be consistent with the openSUSE
> branding guidelines... http://opensuse.github.io/branding-guidelines/
>
> Maybe the html version of the release notes is going in that direction?

Right, the HTML version needs the font. BTW, all openSUSE documentations
needs this font. So removing it is a bad Idea. ;)

>
> >
> >
> > On Apr 10 02:25 Felix Miata wrote (excerpt):
> >>
> >> TW
> >> $SUBJECT can't be right, but trying to zypper rm opensans
> >> wants to remove releasenotes. :-(
> >
> >
> > Felix Miata,
> > what is the reason that you want to remove google-opensans-fonts?
> >
> >
> > FYI:
> > On my openSUSE Tumbleweed system (not the newest one):
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > # cat /etc/os-release
> > NAME=openSUSE
> > VERSION="20150227 (Tumbleweed)"
> >
> > # rpm -e --test google-opensans-fonts
> > error: Failed dependencies:
> >   google-opensans-fonts is needed by (installed)
> >   release-notes-openSUSE-13.2.20150107-1.2.noarch
> >
> > # rpm -q --requires release-notes-openSUSE-13.2.20150107-1.2.noarch
> > dejavu-fonts
> > google-opensans-fonts
> > ...
> >
> > # osc develproject openSUSE:Factory release-notes-openSUSE
> > Documentation
> >
> > # osc cat Documentation release-notes-openSUSE release-notes-openSUSE.spec
> >  | grep ^Requires
> > Requires:       dejavu-fonts
> > Requires:       google-opensans-fonts
> >
> > # osc maintainer release-notes-openSUSE
> > Defined in project:  Documentation:Auto
> >   bugowner of release-notes-openSUSE :
> >    -
> >   maintainer of release-notes-openSUSE :
> >    rsalevsky
> >
> > # osc whois rsalevsky
> > rsalevsky: "Rick Salevsky" <[hidden email]>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Kind Regards
> > Johannes Meixner
> > --
> > SUSE LINUX GmbH - GF: Felix Imendoerffer, Jane Smithard, Jennifer Guild,
> > Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton - HRB 21284 (AG Nuernberg)
> >

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Re: release-notes-openSUSE requires google-opensans-fonts

Felix Miata-3
Rick Salevsky composed on 2015-04-10 11:27 (UTC+0200):

> On Fri, 2015-04-10 at 10:36 +0200, Richard Brown wrote:

>> Johannes Meixner wrote:

>> > what is the reason that release-notes-openSUSE requires
>> > google-opensans-fonts and dejavu-fonts?

>> > There are zero comments in release-notes-openSUSE.spec or
>> > release-notes-openSUSE.changes that could tell something
>> > about why this requirement exists.

>> The use of Open Sans Fonts would be consistent with the openSUSE
>> branding guidelines... http://opensuse.github.io/branding-guidelines/

Absent heroic countermeasures, that particular page is useless except as a
demonstration how not to style a web page that anyone needs to be able to
read anything more than the largest headings on. Whatever A11Y & U7Y may be
there is well disguised.

>> Maybe the html version of the release notes is going in that direction?

> Right, the HTML version needs the font. BTW, all openSUSE documentations
> needs this font. So removing it is a bad Idea. ;)

There is no such thing is HTML needing any particular font. CSS may declare
the stylist's preference for some particular font, but HTML ultimately is
there for the reader, who may choose to have as little as one font available
for any purpose, and is the ultimate authority[1] whether a page's CSS should
have any effect at all. Wanting to not see any particular font otherwise
unncecessary is not justification for preventing installation of release notes.

IOW, suggests or recommends for Google's Opensans is OK, but not requires.

[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/cascade.html#important-rules
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: release-notes-openSUSE requires google-opensans-fonts

Johannes Meixner
In reply to this post by Rick Salevsky

Hello,

On Apr 10 11:27 Rick Salevsky wrote (excerpt):
>> On 10 April 2015 at 10:31, Johannes Meixner <[hidden email]> wrote:
...
>>> what is the reason that release-notes-openSUSE requires
>>> google-opensans-fonts and dejavu-fonts?
...
>
> ... the HTML version needs the font.
> BTW, all openSUSE documentations needs this font.
> So removing it is a bad Idea. ;)

What exactly does "needs the font" mean?

Why exactly is removing it a bad idea?

Would the HTML version and all other openSUSE documentation
not work without that specific fonts or would it only
no longer look nice (but still be readable)
without that specific fonts?

In general RPM requirements should be only used for
essential stuff i.e. for what is mandatory to make it work.

For anything else RPM recommends should be used.

RPM Requires are hard dependencies that cannot be skipped by
end-users (without having unresolved dependencies in their systems)
and release-notes-openSUSE is installed on any system so that all
RPM Requires in release-notes-openSUSE result that all those hard
dependencies must be installed on any system in any case.

If I remember correctly the openSUSE build service installs
all RPM Requires to set up the build system of a package
so that all RPM Requires in a package result that all those
hard dependencies must be installed in our build systems for
any other package that directly or indirectly BuildRequires
the package.

In short:
Keep RPM Requires as small as possible - i.e. only what is really
mandatory to make it work - and specify all what is optional
(i.e. what is not really mandatory) as RPM Recommends.

FYI, cf.
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=776080#c39


Kind Regards
Johannes Meixner
--
SUSE LINUX GmbH - GF: Felix Imendoerffer, Jane Smithard, Jennifer Guild,
Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton - HRB 21284 (AG Nuernberg)

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Re: release-notes-openSUSE requires google-opensans-fonts

Rick Salevsky
On Fri, 2015-04-10 at 12:19 +0200, Johannes Meixner wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On Apr 10 11:27 Rick Salevsky wrote (excerpt):
> >> On 10 April 2015 at 10:31, Johannes Meixner <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ...
> >>> what is the reason that release-notes-openSUSE requires
> >>> google-opensans-fonts and dejavu-fonts?
> ...
> >
> > ... the HTML version needs the font.
> > BTW, all openSUSE documentations needs this font.
> > So removing it is a bad Idea. ;)
>
> What exactly does "needs the font" mean?
>
> Why exactly is removing it a bad idea?
>
> Would the HTML version and all other openSUSE documentation
> not work without that specific fonts or would it only
> no longer look nice (but still be readable)
> without that specific fonts?

When I remember correctly then the page is complete broken. But I'am not
100% sure. So I will test it to see whats happen. Maybe we can also
adapt the docbook-style to resolve this.

> In general RPM requirements should be only used for
> essential stuff i.e. for what is mandatory to make it work.
>
> For anything else RPM recommends should be used.
>
> RPM Requires are hard dependencies that cannot be skipped by
> end-users (without having unresolved dependencies in their systems)
> and release-notes-openSUSE is installed on any system so that all
> RPM Requires in release-notes-openSUSE result that all those hard
> dependencies must be installed on any system in any case.
>
> If I remember correctly the openSUSE build service installs
> all RPM Requires to set up the build system of a package
> so that all RPM Requires in a package result that all those
> hard dependencies must be installed in our build systems for
> any other package that directly or indirectly BuildRequires
> the package.
>
> In short:
> Keep RPM Requires as small as possible - i.e. only what is really
> mandatory to make it work - and specify all what is optional
> (i.e. what is not really mandatory) as RPM Recommends.
>
> FYI, cf.
> https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=776080#c39

Good point, when it work without the font then I will adapt the spec
file.

@Felix: Can you open a bug report for tracking this issue?

Thanks,
Rick



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Re: release-notes-openSUSE requires google-opensans-fonts

Felix Miata-3
Rick Salevsky composed on 2015-04-10 13:14 (UTC+0200):

> On Fri, 2015-04-10 at 12:19 +0200, Johannes Meixner wrote:

>> On Apr 10 11:27 Rick Salevsky wrote (excerpt):

>>>> Johannes Meixner wrote:
>> ...
>> >>> what is the reason that release-notes-openSUSE requires
>> >>> google-opensans-fonts and dejavu-fonts?
>> ...
>> >
>> > ... the HTML version needs the font.
>> > BTW, all openSUSE documentations needs this font.
>> > So removing it is a bad Idea. ;)

>> What exactly does "needs the font" mean?

>> Why exactly is removing it a bad idea?

>> Would the HTML version and all other openSUSE documentation
>> not work without that specific fonts or would it only
>> no longer look nice (but still be readable)
>> without that specific fonts?

> When I remember correctly then the page is complete broken. But I'am not
> 100% sure. So I will test it to see whats happen. Maybe we can also
> adapt the docbook-style to resolve this.

>> In general RPM requirements should be only used for
>> essential stuff i.e. for what is mandatory to make it work.

>> For anything else RPM recommends should be used.

>> RPM Requires are hard dependencies that cannot be skipped by
>> end-users (without having unresolved dependencies in their systems)
>> and release-notes-openSUSE is installed on any system so that all
>> RPM Requires in release-notes-openSUSE result that all those hard
>> dependencies must be installed on any system in any case.

>> If I remember correctly the openSUSE build service installs
>> all RPM Requires to set up the build system of a package
>> so that all RPM Requires in a package result that all those
>> hard dependencies must be installed in our build systems for
>> any other package that directly or indirectly BuildRequires
>> the package.

>> In short:
>> Keep RPM Requires as small as possible - i.e. only what is really
>> mandatory to make it work - and specify all what is optional
>> (i.e. what is not really mandatory) as RPM Recommends.

>> FYI, cf.
>> https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=776080#c39

> Good point, when it work without the font then I will adapt the spec
> file.

> @Felix: Can you open a bug report for tracking this issue?

https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=926792
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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