openSUSE merits a better home page

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openSUSE merits a better home page

Roger Price
openSUSE merits a better home page than the current one
[https://www.opensuse.org/]

A recent article in Linux.com [4] explains

<< Initially openSUSE’s mission statement was to “encourage use of Linux &
Open Source everywhere.” But, that’s no longer the heart and soul of
openSUSE.  OpenSUSE has evolved beyond just a Linux distribution project.
They now cater to a totally different audience -- developers and
sysadmins. So, openSUSE board members drafted a new mission statement:
“Openly engineered tools to change your world.” ... >>

<< “... What we do essentially is engineering - we help in building
packages, we help in testing and we help in delivering them. We care about
the process.” said Brown. “At the same time everything that we do is a
tool, OpenQA is a testing tool, OBS is a packaging tool, YaST is system
management tool, even our distributions Leap and Tumbleweed are tools.” >>

Now that openSUSE recognizes that it's main audience is a world of
developers and sysadmins, the home page should show this with a style
suitable for developers and sysadmins.  The home page should be precise
and unashamedly technical with just sufficient graphics; no twirling
logos, no large pastel coloured rectangles.  The home page should also be
a tool, providing a crisp statement from the Chairman of the Board on why
openSUSE+Yast is the best distribution of them all, and clear links to all
the other tools from the top of the page.

See Debian [1], DNS24 [2] and openBSD [3] for succinct examples of what
can be done.

Roger

[1] http://www.debian.org 
[2] http://www.dns24.ch
[3] https://www.openbsd.org/
[4] https://www.linux.com/blog/event/open-source-summit-na/2017/6/opensuse-leap-enterprise-distribution
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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

jdd@dodin.org
Le 25/10/2017 à 10:05, Roger Price a écrit :
> openSUSE merits a better home page than the current one
> [https://www.opensuse.org/]
>
> A recent article in Linux.com [4] explains
>
> << Initially openSUSE’s mission statement was to “encourage use of Linux
> & Open Source everywhere.” But, that’s no longer the heart and soul of
> openSUSE.

if so the main wiki page should be rewriten

https://en.opensuse.org/Main_Page

jdd

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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

Roger Oberholtzer-2
In reply to this post by Roger Price
On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Roger Price <[hidden email]> wrote:

> See Debian [1], DNS24 [2] and openBSD [3] for succinct examples of what can
> be done.

The openBSD page looks so dated. So one's first impression is that no
one has been there in years and little has happened recently. If I did
not know anything about it and was looking for a distro to try, I
might decide to look for something else that gave the impression of
being maintained and recent. It is, after all, first impressions that
we are discussing, right?

Of course, developers (I am one) are trapped in the past and do not
want to see anything artistic :)

I get your point that if it is a techy distro, go with that. Tell more
techy details. Sell it to a techy audience. But to say that developers
don't like something that looks nice is, I think, not accurate.

--
Roger Oberholtzer

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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

Roger Price
On Wed, 25 Oct 2017, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Roger Price <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> See Debian [1], DNS24 [2] and openBSD [3] for succinct examples of what can
>> be done.
>
> The openBSD page looks so dated.... ... But to say that developers don't
> like something that looks nice is, I think, not accurate.

I took openBSD as an example of "information content", not for being up to
date.

The site Distrowatch [5] presents an informal "light-hearted" hot 100 of the
GNU Linux and BSD distributions based on page hit counts on the Distrowatch
site.  This is not a rigourous measure but is a useful indicator of relative
interest.  Over the last 30 days, openSUSE has been at 9th position.  openSUSE
merits a higher place, and was 6th a year ago. [6]

How does the openSUSE home page compare with the rest of the hot 100 as a
technical site?  In an effort to make an objective estimate, the
Distrowatch-Watcher page [http://rogerprice.org/Distrowatch-Watcher.html] in
it's Table 1 looks at the "information content" of the hot 100.  In the same
"light hearted" manner as Distrowatch, the "information content" can be
estimated by comparing the number of characters in a page which are human
readable to the total number of characters.  Out on the World Wide Web, that
ratio varies from 0 through to 90%.

The Distrowatch-Watcher [8] currently shows openSUSE in 37th position at
19.2%.  Other distributions are doing better: Debian is in 9th position at
35.8% and openBSD is in 11th place at 32.1%.  In table 3, DNS24 is in 10th
place with an excellent 57.1%.

Table 3 compares openSUSE with other well known sites.  RFC 2822 at 83.8%
and the Unicode/UTF-8 FAQ at 83.3% show that concentrating on the technical
content rather than the glitz gets a high score and a site suitable for
developers and sysadmins.  The Distrowatch-Watcher's Table 3 also shows that
inside the opensuse.org site, openSUSE does achieve high information content
scores.

Back in 2014 [7] the openSUSE home page scored 43.1% for information density
with a page designed in 2008:

<< As part of Hack Week III, members of the openSUSE community redesigned this
landing page for the openSUSE web site. The main ideas for the redesign are:
  * Provide information about the openSUSE project ... >>

This desire to offer information needed by developers and sysadmins seems
to have been lost on the home page.  openSUSE needs to get back to
previous good habits.

Roger

[5] https://distrowatch.com/index.php?dataspan=4
[6] https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=trending
[7] https://web.archive.org/web/20141015175748/http://www.opensuse.org/en/
[8] http://rogerprice.org/Distrowatch-Watcher.html

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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

Roger Oberholtzer-2
On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Roger Price <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This desire to offer information needed by developers and sysadmins seems to
> have been lost on the home page.  openSUSE needs to get back to previous
> good habits.

I fully agree with that!

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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

Billie Walsh
On 10/25/2017 06:03 AM, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Roger Price <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> This desire to offer information needed by developers and sysadmins seems to
>> have been lost on the home page.  openSUSE needs to get back to previous
>> good habits.
> I fully agree with that!

If I were someone looking to get into using linux for the first time and
came to that page I would just keep moving. There's nothing there to
tell me that this is something I can use. It's something only nerdy
types can use. Not a common computer user.

And, people wonder why common users don't use Linux.

As the user base gets older the numbers are going to go into the toilet
unless you can interest younger users into the fold. That page won't get
it done.


--
"The time has come," the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:
Of shoes-and ships-and sealing-wax-
Of cabbages-and kings--
And why the sea is boiling hot-
And whether pigs have wings."
Lewis Carroll

_ _...  ..._ _
_._  ._  .....  ._..  ...  .._


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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

Patrick Shanahan-2
* Billie Walsh <[hidden email]> [10-25-17 10:09]:

> On 10/25/2017 06:03 AM, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
> >On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Roger Price <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >>This desire to offer information needed by developers and sysadmins seems to
> >>have been lost on the home page.  openSUSE needs to get back to previous
> >>good habits.
> >I fully agree with that!
>
> If I were someone looking to get into using linux for the first time and
> came to that page I would just keep moving. There's nothing there to tell me
> that this is something I can use. It's something only nerdy types can use.
> Not a common computer user.
>
> And, people wonder why common users don't use Linux.
>
> As the user base gets older the numbers are going to go into the toilet
> unless you can interest younger users into the fold. That page won't get it
> done.

and inferring to visitors that openSUSE is "pointed" at developers and
sysadmin does not gain the more average user but only more highly
"skilled" users.

the fact that openSUSE is a great platform for developers and sysadmin is
a plus but it must also be a "great" platform for the "unwashed masses"
and provide them a great experience.

being great for developers and sysadmin should be a prominent "footnote",
not a description of the distribution.

--
(paka)Patrick Shanahan       Plainfield, Indiana, USA          @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.org    openSUSE Community Member    facebook/ptilopteri
Registered Linux User #207535                    @ http://linuxcounter.net
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo                    paka @ IRCnet freenode

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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

Mathias Homann-2
Am 25.10.2017 um 16:34 schrieb Patrick Shanahan:

> the fact that openSUSE is a great platform for developers and sysadmin is
> a plus but it must also be a "great" platform for the "unwashed masses"
> and provide them a great experience.
>

If someone wants to work on a better homepage I could provide
screenshots of a plasma desktop running steam on linux, with mass market
titles like war thunder, DOTA and the likes. That might help a bit :)

Cheers
MH

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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

Ken Schneider - openSUSE
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan-2
On 10/25/2017 10:34 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

> * Billie Walsh <[hidden email]> [10-25-17 10:09]:
>> On 10/25/2017 06:03 AM, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
>>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Roger Price <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This desire to offer information needed by developers and sysadmins seems to
>>>> have been lost on the home page.  openSUSE needs to get back to previous
>>>> good habits.
>>> I fully agree with that!
>>
>> If I were someone looking to get into using linux for the first time and
>> came to that page I would just keep moving. There's nothing there to tell me
>> that this is something I can use. It's something only nerdy types can use.
>> Not a common computer user.
>>
>> And, people wonder why common users don't use Linux.
>>
>> As the user base gets older the numbers are going to go into the toilet
>> unless you can interest younger users into the fold. That page won't get it
>> done.
>
> and inferring to visitors that openSUSE is "pointed" at developers and
> sysadmin does not gain the more average user but only more highly
> "skilled" users.
>
> the fact that openSUSE is a great platform for developers and sysadmin is
> a plus but it must also be a "great" platform for the "unwashed masses"
> and provide them a great experience.
>
> being great for developers and sysadmin should be a prominent "footnote",
> not a description of the distribution.
>

Well said Patrick.

--
Ken Schneider
SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998

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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

Stakanov Schufter
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan-2
In data mercoledì 25 ottobre 2017 16:34:28 CEST, Patrick Shanahan ha scritto:
> but it must also be a "great" platform for the "unwashed masses"
> and provide them a great experience.
well, then there is a lot of work to be done, to be honest.
Currently, on even very standard hardware with Leap or TW, my avice would be:
user with at least 5 years Linux experience, good knowledge of the command
line and some spare time in case something goes South on you.




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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

Roger Price
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan-2
On Wed, 25 Oct 2017, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

> * Billie Walsh <[hidden email]> [10-25-17 10:09]:
>> If I were someone looking to get into using linux for the first time and
>> came to that page I would just keep moving. There's nothing there to tell me
>> that this is something I can use. It's something only nerdy types can use.
>> Not a common computer user.
>>
>> And, people wonder why common users don't use Linux.
>>
>> As the user base gets older the numbers are going to go into the toilet
>> unless you can interest younger users into the fold. That page won't get it
>> done.
>
> and inferring to visitors that openSUSE is "pointed" at developers and
> sysadmin does not gain the more average user but only more highly
> "skilled" users.

The openSUSE board have taken the decision that the primary openSUSE
audience is IT professionals, developers and sysadmins.  I do not have
insider access to how the board thinks, but this looks like a business
decision which takes into account the relationship between SUSE and
openSUSE, and the relationships between Tumbleweed, Leap and SLE.

> the fact that openSUSE is a great platform for developers and sysadmin
> is a plus but it must also be a "great" platform for the "unwashed
> masses" and provide them a great experience.
>
> being great for developers and sysadmin should be a prominent
> "footnote", not a description of the distribution.

My impression is that you will need to present very strong arguments to
convince the board to change tack.  What is the business case for
providing a great platform for the unwashed?  How many SLE licenses does
that generate?

The board's decision appears to assume that Linux newcomers are better
served by a derivative distribution such as Gecko, a specialist
distribution such as SteamOS or an ultra-popular distribution such as
Mint, but this will have to be confirmed by the board itself.

Roger


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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

Patrick Shanahan-2
* Roger Price <[hidden email]> [10-25-17 16:47]:

> On Wed, 25 Oct 2017, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> >* Billie Walsh <[hidden email]> [10-25-17 10:09]:
> >>If I were someone looking to get into using linux for the first time and
> >>came to that page I would just keep moving. There's nothing there to tell me
> >>that this is something I can use. It's something only nerdy types can use.
> >>Not a common computer user.
> >>
> >>And, people wonder why common users don't use Linux.
> >>
> >>As the user base gets older the numbers are going to go into the toilet
> >>unless you can interest younger users into the fold. That page won't get it
> >>done.
> >
> >and inferring to visitors that openSUSE is "pointed" at developers and
> >sysadmin does not gain the more average user but only more highly
> >"skilled" users.
>
> The openSUSE board have taken the decision that the primary openSUSE
> audience is IT professionals, developers and sysadmins.  I do not have
> insider access to how the board thinks, but this looks like a business
> decision which takes into account the relationship between SUSE and
> openSUSE, and the relationships between Tumbleweed, Leap and SLE.
>
> >the fact that openSUSE is a great platform for developers and sysadmin is
> >a plus but it must also be a "great" platform for the "unwashed masses"
> >and provide them a great experience.
> >
> >being great for developers and sysadmin should be a prominent "footnote",
> >not a description of the distribution.
>
> My impression is that you will need to present very strong arguments to
> convince the board to change tack.  What is the business case for providing
> a great platform for the unwashed?  How many SLE licenses does that
> generate?
>
> The board's decision appears to assume that Linux newcomers are better
> served by a derivative distribution such as Gecko, a specialist distribution
> such as SteamOS or an ultra-popular distribution such as Mint, but this will
> have to be confirmed by the board itself.


where did you get that?  from the board??  are we now directing new-comers
to another distro?  completely lost on me?

I really thought we wanted all of the users we could attract.  and have
not seen anything except your post that suggests otherwise.

--
(paka)Patrick Shanahan       Plainfield, Indiana, USA          @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.org    openSUSE Community Member    facebook/ptilopteri
Registered Linux User #207535                    @ http://linuxcounter.net
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo                    paka @ IRCnet freenode

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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Ken Schneider - openSUSE
On 2017-10-25 17:29, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:

> On 10/25/2017 10:34 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>> * Billie Walsh <[hidden email]> [10-25-17 10:09]:
>>> On 10/25/2017 06:03 AM, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Roger Price <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This desire to offer information needed by developers and sysadmins
>>>>> seems to
>>>>> have been lost on the home page.  openSUSE needs to get back to
>>>>> previous
>>>>> good habits.
>>>> I fully agree with that!
>>>
>>> If I were someone looking to get into using linux for the first time and
>>> came to that page I would just keep moving. There's nothing there to
>>> tell me
>>> that this is something I can use. It's something only nerdy types can
>>> use.
>>> Not a common computer user.
>>>
>>> And, people wonder why common users don't use Linux.
>>>
>>> As the user base gets older the numbers are going to go into the toilet
>>> unless you can interest younger users into the fold. That page won't
>>> get it
>>> done.
>>
>> and inferring to visitors that openSUSE is "pointed" at developers and
>> sysadmin does not gain the more average user but only more highly
>> "skilled" users.
>>
>> the fact that openSUSE is a great platform for developers and sysadmin is
>> a plus but it must also be a "great" platform for the "unwashed masses"
>> and provide them a great experience.
>>
>> being great for developers and sysadmin should be a prominent "footnote",
>> not a description of the distribution.
>>
>
> Well said Patrick.
Indeed. :-)

--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

  (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))


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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan-2
On 2017-10-25 23:57, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

> * Roger Price <> [10-25-17 16:47]:
>> On Wed, 25 Oct 2017, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>>> * Billie Walsh <> [10-25-17 10:09]:
>>>> If I were someone looking to get into using linux for the first time and
>>>> came to that page I would just keep moving. There's nothing there to tell me
>>>> that this is something I can use. It's something only nerdy types can use.
>>>> Not a common computer user.
>>>>
>>>> And, people wonder why common users don't use Linux.
>>>>
>>>> As the user base gets older the numbers are going to go into the toilet
>>>> unless you can interest younger users into the fold. That page won't get it
>>>> done.
>>>
>>> and inferring to visitors that openSUSE is "pointed" at developers and
>>> sysadmin does not gain the more average user but only more highly
>>> "skilled" users.
>>
>> The openSUSE board have taken the decision that the primary openSUSE
>> audience is IT professionals, developers and sysadmins.  I do not have
>> insider access to how the board thinks, but this looks like a business
>> decision which takes into account the relationship between SUSE and
>> openSUSE, and the relationships between Tumbleweed, Leap and SLE.
>>
>>> the fact that openSUSE is a great platform for developers and sysadmin is
>>> a plus but it must also be a "great" platform for the "unwashed masses"
>>> and provide them a great experience.
>>>
>>> being great for developers and sysadmin should be a prominent "footnote",
>>> not a description of the distribution.
>>
>> My impression is that you will need to present very strong arguments to
>> convince the board to change tack.  What is the business case for providing
>> a great platform for the unwashed?  How many SLE licenses does that
>> generate?
>>
>> The board's decision appears to assume that Linux newcomers are better
>> served by a derivative distribution such as Gecko, a specialist distribution
>> such as SteamOS or an ultra-popular distribution such as Mint, but this will
>> have to be confirmed by the board itself.
>
>
> where did you get that?  from the board??  are we now directing new-comers
> to another distro?  completely lost on me?
>
> I really thought we wanted all of the users we could attract.  and have
> not seen anything except your post that suggests otherwise.
Same here.
I'm horrified that this could be true.

--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

  (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))


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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

Billie Walsh
In reply to this post by Roger Price
On 10/25/2017 03:44 PM, Roger Price wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Oct 2017, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>> * Billie Walsh <[hidden email]> [10-25-17 10:09]:
>>> If I were someone looking to get into using linux for the first time
>>> and
>>> came to that page I would just keep moving. There's nothing there to
>>> tell me
>>> that this is something I can use. It's something only nerdy types
>>> can use.
>>> Not a common computer user.
>>>
>>> And, people wonder why common users don't use Linux.
>>>
>>> As the user base gets older the numbers are going to go into the toilet
>>> unless you can interest younger users into the fold. That page won't
>>> get it
>>> done.
>>
>> and inferring to visitors that openSUSE is "pointed" at developers and
>> sysadmin does not gain the more average user but only more highly
>> "skilled" users.
>
> The openSUSE board have taken the decision that the primary openSUSE
> audience is IT professionals, developers and sysadmins. I do not have
> insider access to how the board thinks, but this looks like a business
> decision which takes into account the relationship between SUSE and
> openSUSE, and the relationships between Tumbleweed, Leap and SLE.
>
>> the fact that openSUSE is a great platform for developers and
>> sysadmin is a plus but it must also be a "great" platform for the
>> "unwashed masses" and provide them a great experience.
>>
>> being great for developers and sysadmin should be a prominent
>> "footnote", not a description of the distribution.
>
> My impression is that you will need to present very strong arguments
> to convince the board to change tack.  What is the business case for
> providing a great platform for the unwashed? How many SLE licenses
> does that generate?
>
> The board's decision appears to assume that Linux newcomers are better
> served by a derivative distribution such as Gecko, a specialist
> distribution such as SteamOS or an ultra-popular distribution such as
> Mint, but this will have to be confirmed by the board itself.
>
> Roger

I did a little browsing around looking at some of the different Linus
distros web site. Every one stress's that it is for IT types, even Mint.
Nothing about the average user.


--
"The time has come," the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:
Of shoes-and ships-and sealing-wax-
Of cabbages-and kings--
And why the sea is boiling hot-
And whether pigs have wings."
Lewis Carroll

_ _...  ..._ _
_._  ._  .....  ._..  ...  .._


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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

Stakanov Schufter
In data giovedì 26 ottobre 2017 05:22:08 CEST, Billie Walsh ha scritto:

> On 10/25/2017 03:44 PM, Roger Price wrote:
> > On Wed, 25 Oct 2017, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> >> * Billie Walsh <[hidden email]> [10-25-17 10:09]:
> >>> If I were someone looking to get into using linux for the first time
> >>> and
> >>> came to that page I would just keep moving. There's nothing there to
> >>> tell me
> >>> that this is something I can use. It's something only nerdy types
> >>> can use.
> >>> Not a common computer user.
> >>>
> >>> And, people wonder why common users don't use Linux.
> >>>
> >>> As the user base gets older the numbers are going to go into the toilet
> >>> unless you can interest younger users into the fold. That page won't
> >>> get it
> >>> done.
> >>
> >> and inferring to visitors that openSUSE is "pointed" at developers and
> >> sysadmin does not gain the more average user but only more highly
> >> "skilled" users.
> >
> > The openSUSE board have taken the decision that the primary openSUSE
> > audience is IT professionals, developers and sysadmins. I do not have
> > insider access to how the board thinks, but this looks like a business
> > decision which takes into account the relationship between SUSE and
> > openSUSE, and the relationships between Tumbleweed, Leap and SLE.
> >
> >> the fact that openSUSE is a great platform for developers and
> >> sysadmin is a plus but it must also be a "great" platform for the
> >> "unwashed masses" and provide them a great experience.
> >>
> >> being great for developers and sysadmin should be a prominent
> >> "footnote", not a description of the distribution.
> >
> > My impression is that you will need to present very strong arguments
> > to convince the board to change tack.  What is the business case for
> > providing a great platform for the unwashed? How many SLE licenses
> > does that generate?
> >
> > The board's decision appears to assume that Linux newcomers are better
> > served by a derivative distribution such as Gecko, a specialist
> > distribution such as SteamOS or an ultra-popular distribution such as
> > Mint, but this will have to be confirmed by the board itself.
> >
> > Roger
>
> I did a little browsing around looking at some of the different Linus
> distros web site. Every one stress's that it is for IT types, even Mint.
> Nothing about the average user.

Maybe that was just a try to "promote" "Geko"-distribution? A one-man-show
opensuse spinnoff, in a try to produce a "unwashed" only distribution as far
as I understand.
BTW, Mint stops KDE support (a bit OT but that reduces the amount of
alternatives with KDE that are unwashed).




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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

michael norman
On 26/10/17 04:29, stakanov wrote:

> In data giovedì 26 ottobre 2017 05:22:08 CEST, Billie Walsh ha scritto:
>> On 10/25/2017 03:44 PM, Roger Price wrote:
>>> On Wed, 25 Oct 2017, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>>>> * Billie Walsh <[hidden email]> [10-25-17 10:09]:
>>>>> If I were someone looking to get into using linux for the first time
>>>>> and
>>>>> came to that page I would just keep moving. There's nothing there to
>>>>> tell me
>>>>> that this is something I can use. It's something only nerdy types
>>>>> can use.
>>>>> Not a common computer user.
>>>>>
>>>>> And, people wonder why common users don't use Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> As the user base gets older the numbers are going to go into the toilet
>>>>> unless you can interest younger users into the fold. That page won't
>>>>> get it
>>>>> done.
>>>>
>>>> and inferring to visitors that openSUSE is "pointed" at developers and
>>>> sysadmin does not gain the more average user but only more highly
>>>> "skilled" users.
>>>
>>> The openSUSE board have taken the decision that the primary openSUSE
>>> audience is IT professionals, developers and sysadmins. I do not have
>>> insider access to how the board thinks, but this looks like a business
>>> decision which takes into account the relationship between SUSE and
>>> openSUSE, and the relationships between Tumbleweed, Leap and SLE.
>>>
>>>> the fact that openSUSE is a great platform for developers and
>>>> sysadmin is a plus but it must also be a "great" platform for the
>>>> "unwashed masses" and provide them a great experience.
>>>>
>>>> being great for developers and sysadmin should be a prominent
>>>> "footnote", not a description of the distribution.
>>>
>>> My impression is that you will need to present very strong arguments
>>> to convince the board to change tack.  What is the business case for
>>> providing a great platform for the unwashed? How many SLE licenses
>>> does that generate?
>>>
>>> The board's decision appears to assume that Linux newcomers are better
>>> served by a derivative distribution such as Gecko, a specialist
>>> distribution such as SteamOS or an ultra-popular distribution such as
>>> Mint, but this will have to be confirmed by the board itself.
>>>
>>> Roger
>>
>> I did a little browsing around looking at some of the different Linus
>> distros web site. Every one stress's that it is for IT types, even Mint.
>> Nothing about the average user.
>
> Maybe that was just a try to "promote" "Geko"-distribution? A one-man-show
> opensuse spinnoff, in a try to produce a "unwashed" only distribution as far
> as I understand.
> BTW, Mint stops KDE support (a bit OT but that reduces the amount of
> alternatives with KDE that are unwashed).

Mint will only stop KDE support after the next release, so it will be
available for a few years yet,

https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3418
>
>
>
>


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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

Robin Klitscher-2
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
On 26/10/17 13:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2017-10-25 17:29, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
>> On 10/25/2017 10:34 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>>> * Billie Walsh <[hidden email]> [10-25-17 10:09]:
>>>> On 10/25/2017 06:03 AM, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Roger Price <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This desire to offer information needed by developers and sysadmins
>>>>>> seems to
>>>>>> have been lost on the home page.  openSUSE needs to get back to
>>>>>> previous
>>>>>> good habits.
>>>>> I fully agree with that!
>>>>
>>>> If I were someone looking to get into using linux for the first time and
>>>> came to that page I would just keep moving. There's nothing there to
>>>> tell me
>>>> that this is something I can use. It's something only nerdy types can
>>>> use.
>>>> Not a common computer user.
>>>>
>>>> And, people wonder why common users don't use Linux.
>>>>
>>>> As the user base gets older the numbers are going to go into the toilet
>>>> unless you can interest younger users into the fold. That page won't
>>>> get it
>>>> done.
>>>
>>> and inferring to visitors that openSUSE is "pointed" at developers and
>>> sysadmin does not gain the more average user but only more highly
>>> "skilled" users.
>>>
>>> the fact that openSUSE is a great platform for developers and sysadmin is
>>> a plus but it must also be a "great" platform for the "unwashed masses"
>>> and provide them a great experience.
>>>
>>> being great for developers and sysadmin should be a prominent "footnote",
>>> not a description of the distribution.
>>>
>>
>> Well said Patrick.
>
> Indeed. :-)
>

Aye

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Wellington "Harbour City"
New Zealand

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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

Per Jessen
In reply to this post by Roger Price
Roger Price wrote:

> My impression is that you will need to present very strong arguments
> to convince the board to change tack.  

I think anyone who comes up with an improved home page will be
considered.  



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Re: openSUSE merits a better home page

jdd@dodin.org
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan-2
Le 25/10/2017 à 23:57, Patrick Shanahan a écrit :
> * Roger Price <[hidden email]> [10-25-17 16:47]:

>> The board's decision appears to assume that Linux newcomers are better
>> served by a derivative distribution such as Gecko, a specialist distribution
>> such as SteamOS or an ultra-popular distribution such as Mint, but this will
>> have to be confirmed by the board itself.
>
>
> where did you get that?  from the board??  are we now directing new-comers
> to another distro?  completely lost on me?

there was a long discussion following the "Leap". But the board did'nt
go so far to sending users to an other distro but seems to think that a
distro that attract devs is also better for customers
>
> I really thought we wanted all of the users we could attract.  and have
> not seen anything except your post that suggests otherwise.
>
read archives since OSC in The Hague

jdd

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