new desktop selection for opensuse

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new desktop selection for opensuse

Josef Reidinger-3
Hi Factory users and developers,
I am working on providing a new desktop selection dialog in installation
as specified in https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/14936 . So after some tweaking and
thinking I use roles functionality dialog we already had in SLES, just
with desktop selection. It will allows us in future more potential
tuning for specified desktops.

You can see result in
https://github.com/yast/skelcd-control-openSUSE/pull/73 ( screenshots
and videos ). What do you think about it? I welcome any feedback. I add
there to comparison also old work-flow where is one screen with online
repos which we currently integrate in desktop selection.

Thanks for any feedback

Josef
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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Daniele
Il 09/02/2017 12:23, Josef Reidinger ha scritto:

> Hi Factory users and developers,
> I am working on providing a new desktop selection dialog in installation
> as specified in https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/14936 . So after some tweaking and
> thinking I use roles functionality dialog we already had in SLES, just
> with desktop selection. It will allows us in future more potential
> tuning for specified desktops.
>
> You can see result in
> https://github.com/yast/skelcd-control-openSUSE/pull/73 ( screenshots
> and videos ). What do you think about it? I welcome any feedback. I add
> there to comparison also old work-flow where is one screen with online
> repos which we currently integrate in desktop selection.
>
> Thanks for any feedback
>
> Josef
>
HI, I don't like the "role" word for a desktop selection.

IMHO, Gnome/kde -> same role with different DE.

Bye,
Daniele.
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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Carlos E. R.-2
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On 2017-02-09 18:03, Daniele wrote:

> Il 09/02/2017 12:23, Josef Reidinger ha scritto:
>> Hi Factory users and developers, I am working on providing a new
>> desktop selection dialog in installation as specified in
>> https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/14936 . So after some
>> tweaking and thinking I use roles functionality dialog we already
>> had in SLES, just with desktop selection. It will allows us in
>> future more potential tuning for specified desktops.
>>
>> You can see result in
>> https://github.com/yast/skelcd-control-openSUSE/pull/73 (
>> screenshots and videos ). What do you think about it? I welcome
>> any feedback. I add there to comparison also old work-flow where
>> is one screen with online repos which we currently integrate in
>> desktop selection.
>>
>> Thanks for any feedback
>>
>> Josef
>>
> HI, I don't like the "role" word for a desktop selection.
>
> IMHO, Gnome/kde -> same role with different DE.

Likewise, I do not understand why using the word "role".


Also, it is not clear what happens when clicking "custom". Will I have
to play with choosing the appropriate patterns, or will there be a
simple tick to choose XFCE, LXDE, minimal X, etc?

Another behaviour that should be allowed would be choosing both KDE
and Gnome (and more) right at the first install (without going to
patterns).

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

  (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))
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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Simon Lees-3


On 02/10/2017 12:18 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2017-02-09 18:03, Daniele wrote:
>> Il 09/02/2017 12:23, Josef Reidinger ha scritto:
>>> Hi Factory users and developers, I am working on providing a new
>>> desktop selection dialog in installation as specified in
>>> https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/14936 . So after some
>>> tweaking and thinking I use roles functionality dialog we already
>>> had in SLES, just with desktop selection. It will allows us in
>>> future more potential tuning for specified desktops.
>>>
>>> You can see result in
>>> https://github.com/yast/skelcd-control-openSUSE/pull/73 (
>>> screenshots and videos ). What do you think about it? I welcome
>>> any feedback. I add there to comparison also old work-flow where
>>> is one screen with online repos which we currently integrate in
>>> desktop selection.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any feedback
>>>
>>> Josef
>>>
>
> Another behaviour that should be allowed would be choosing both KDE
> and Gnome (and more) right at the first install (without going to
> patterns).
>
I'll have a proper look at this later today, but for now i'll just
disagree with Carlos on the above point, this part of the installer
should be as simple and friendly to new and less experienced users as
possible, to do that I don't think you should be able to select both at
this point, power users can go into the patterns and enable extras if
they would like anyway. Further to that selecting both adds further hard
questions to solve, like if you select both at this point should sddm or
gdm be used? If its configured to load straight to desktop bypassing
login which should be selected etc?

--

Simon Lees (Simotek)                            http://simotek.net

Emergency Update Team                           keybase.io/simotek
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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Carlos E. R.-2
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On 2017-02-10 03:00, Simon Lees wrote:

> I'll have a proper look at this later today, but for now i'll just
> disagree with Carlos on the above point, this part of the
> installer should be as simple and friendly to new and less
> experienced users as possible, to do that I don't think you should
> be able to select both at this point, power users can go into the
> patterns and enable extras if they would like anyway. Further to
> that selecting both adds further hard questions to solve, like if
> you select both at this point should sddm or gdm be used? If its
> configured to load straight to desktop bypassing login which should
> be selected etc?

Fair enough :-)

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

  (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))
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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Simon Lees-3
In reply to this post by Daniele


On 02/10/2017 03:33 AM, Daniele wrote:

> Il 09/02/2017 12:23, Josef Reidinger ha scritto:
>> Hi Factory users and developers,
>> I am working on providing a new desktop selection dialog in installation
>> as specified in https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/14936 . So after
>> some tweaking and
>> thinking I use roles functionality dialog we already had in SLES, just
>> with desktop selection. It will allows us in future more potential
>> tuning for specified desktops.
>>
>> You can see result in
>> https://github.com/yast/skelcd-control-openSUSE/pull/73 ( screenshots
>> and videos ). What do you think about it? I welcome any feedback. I add
>> there to comparison also old work-flow where is one screen with online
>> repos which we currently integrate in desktop selection.
>>
>> Thanks for any feedback
>>
>> Josef
>>
> HI, I don't like the "role" word for a desktop selection.
>
> IMHO, Gnome/kde -> same role with different DE.
>
> Bye,
> Daniele.
I don't mind it if the wording is changed slightly


  * Desktop (Gnome)
  * Desktop (KDE)
  * Server (Text Mode)
  * Other

Maybe with a description for Other including alternate desktops,
containers, etc.

--

Simon Lees (Simotek)                            http://simotek.net

Emergency Update Team                           keybase.io/simotek
SUSE Linux                           Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30
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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Josef Reidinger-3
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 02:48:48 +0100
"Carlos E. R." <[hidden email]> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On 2017-02-09 18:03, Daniele wrote:
> > Il 09/02/2017 12:23, Josef Reidinger ha scritto:  
> >> Hi Factory users and developers, I am working on providing a new
> >> desktop selection dialog in installation as specified in
> >> https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/14936 . So after some
> >> tweaking and thinking I use roles functionality dialog we already
> >> had in SLES, just with desktop selection. It will allows us in
> >> future more potential tuning for specified desktops.
> >>
> >> You can see result in
> >> https://github.com/yast/skelcd-control-openSUSE/pull/73 (
> >> screenshots and videos ). What do you think about it? I welcome
> >> any feedback. I add there to comparison also old work-flow where
> >> is one screen with online repos which we currently integrate in
> >> desktop selection.
> >>
> >> Thanks for any feedback
> >>
> >> Josef
> >>  
> > HI, I don't like the "role" word for a desktop selection.
> >
> > IMHO, Gnome/kde -> same role with different DE.  

Thanks for feedback.

>
> Likewise, I do not understand why using the word "role".
>

So what you suggest as better name? or do you agree with simon
suggestion lower, to use Desktop(GNOME) and Desktop(KDE) as role?

>
> Also, it is not clear what happens when clicking "custom". Will I have
> to play with choosing the appropriate patterns, or will there be a
> simple tick to choose XFCE, LXDE, minimal X, etc?

I hope it is clear from video. You pick pattern there which fits your
needs. It is targeted for slightly more experienced users, that know
what they want ( in video I choose LXDE if I remember correctly ) and
it is pattern based, so it allows easy future addition of additional
repos.

>
> Another behaviour that should be allowed would be choosing both KDE
> and Gnome (and more) right at the first install (without going to
> patterns).

I worry that it would confuse users even more. E.g. which desktop
manager to pick? what will be default? and some others together do not
make much sense, like text based server and kde together.


Josef

>
> - --
> Cheers / Saludos,
>
> Carlos E. R.
>
>   (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))
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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Carlos E. R.-2
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On 2017-02-10 08:57, Josef Reidinger wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 02:48:48 +0100 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:
>
> On 2017-02-09 18:03, Daniele wrote:


>>>> HI, I don't like the "role" word for a desktop selection.
>>>>
>>>> IMHO, Gnome/kde -> same role with different DE.
>
> Thanks for feedback.
>
>
>> Likewise, I do not understand why using the word "role".
>
>
> So what you suggest as better name? or do you agree with simon
> suggestion lower, to use Desktop(GNOME) and Desktop(KDE) as role?

I don't know what to suggest, as I don't understand what "role" means
in this window.

I don't see what is wrong with the old wording, either :-?


I see on the video that the wording later (summary screen) is "System
type: text server"

>> Also, it is not clear what happens when clicking "custom". Will I
>> have to play with choosing the appropriate patterns, or will
>> there be a simple tick to choose XFCE, LXDE, minimal X, etc?
>
> I hope it is clear from video. You pick pattern there which fits
> your needs. It is targeted for slightly more experienced users,
> that know what they want ( in video I choose LXDE if I remember
> correctly ) and it is pattern based, so it allows easy future
> addition of additional repos.

As video was no real video but gif, couldn't go forward or backwards
or stop to recheck steps, no, sorry, I did not notice.

Ok, watched again. The selection used is "Text server", so I can't see
the working of "other". :-?


Ah, "custom" is in the third image. Frankly, I do not like having to
select a pattern in order to choose "XFCE" or "minimal X", I would
like a list of desktops with buttons to choose from, like for KDE or
Gnome. Perhaps a button ("more choices" or "more desktops") on the
main window making the other options to appear. Then another tick,
"custom", to choose patterns.

>> Another behaviour that should be allowed would be choosing both
>> KDE and Gnome (and more) right at the first install (without
>> going to patterns).
>
> I worry that it would confuse users even more. E.g. which desktop
> manager to pick? what will be default? and some others together do
> not make much sense, like text based server and kde together.

Yes, Simon commented on that earlier and I saw the point.

Although those doubts could be solved by assigning "numbers". This is
the first preference, this the second... The desktop manager would go
with the first one.

It could be enabled in a new "expert mode". ;-)
But experts can achieve the same using patterns.


- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Josef Reidinger-3
In reply to this post by Simon Lees-3
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 17:00:25 +1030
Simon Lees <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 02/10/2017 03:33 AM, Daniele wrote:
> > Il 09/02/2017 12:23, Josef Reidinger ha scritto:  
> >> Hi Factory users and developers,
> >> I am working on providing a new desktop selection dialog in
> >> installation as specified in
> >> https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/14936 . So after some
> >> tweaking and thinking I use roles functionality dialog we already
> >> had in SLES, just with desktop selection. It will allows us in
> >> future more potential tuning for specified desktops.
> >>
> >> You can see result in
> >> https://github.com/yast/skelcd-control-openSUSE/pull/73
> >> ( screenshots and videos ). What do you think about it? I welcome
> >> any feedback. I add there to comparison also old work-flow where
> >> is one screen with online repos which we currently integrate in
> >> desktop selection.
> >>
> >> Thanks for any feedback
> >>
> >> Josef
> >>  
> > HI, I don't like the "role" word for a desktop selection.
> >
> > IMHO, Gnome/kde -> same role with different DE.
> >
> > Bye,
> > Daniele.  
>
> I don't mind it if the wording is changed slightly
>
>
>   * Desktop (Gnome)
>   * Desktop (KDE)
>   * Server (Text Mode)
>   * Other
>
> Maybe with a description for Other including alternate desktops,
> containers, etc.
>

Thanks for feeedback, I will discuss this with ludwig, who like to see
this change. I personally like this idea.

Josef
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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Konstantin Voinov
In reply to this post by Josef Reidinger-3
Hi.

What about expandable list:

1 Workstation:
|
|--[rb]Minimal (text mode)
|--[rb]Minimal (xdm)
|--[cb]KDE
|--[cb]GNOME
|--[cb]LibreOffice
|--[cb]<Something big else 1>
|--[cb]<Something big else 2>

2 Server:
|
|--[cb]Samba
|--[cb]Apache
|--[cb] etc...

3 Manual select


rb-radio button
cb-check button

PS I just relised, that is like mc winows install withards :(



Josef Reidinger писал 2017-02-09 20:23:

> Hi Factory users and developers,
> I am working on providing a new desktop selection dialog in
> installation
> as specified in https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/14936 . So after
> some tweaking and
> thinking I use roles functionality dialog we already had in SLES, just
> with desktop selection. It will allows us in future more potential
> tuning for specified desktops.
>
> You can see result in
> https://github.com/yast/skelcd-control-openSUSE/pull/73 ( screenshots
> and videos ). What do you think about it? I welcome any feedback. I add
> there to comparison also old work-flow where is one screen with online
> repos which we currently integrate in desktop selection.
>
> Thanks for any feedback
>
> Josef
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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Josef Reidinger-3
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 23:51:39 +0900
Konstantin Voinov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi.
>
> What about expandable list:
>
> 1 Workstation:
> |
> |--[rb]Minimal (text mode)
> |--[rb]Minimal (xdm)
> |--[cb]KDE
> |--[cb]GNOME
> |--[cb]LibreOffice
> |--[cb]<Something big else 1>
> |--[cb]<Something big else 2>
>
> 2 Server:
> |
> |--[cb]Samba
> |--[cb]Apache
> |--[cb] etc...
>
> 3 Manual select
>
>
> rb-radio button
> cb-check button

I worry it will be too confusing for beginners, we try to have easy
decisions and if user need something more advanced, that for such
purpose is that custom, which allows to specify any pattern you want.
Also it can easily switch to flame war what should be there and what
not.
Goal of that dialog would be to allow easy UI for common scenarios
like workstation with major desktops and minimal server. For other
users we allows patterns selection and even in summary you can fine
tune it with full software selection if you want. As can be seen in
third gif, picking e.g. lxde is also very easy with it, just one click
more.

Josef


>
> PS I just relised, that is like mc winows install withards :(
>
>
>
> Josef Reidinger писал 2017-02-09 20:23:
> > Hi Factory users and developers,
> > I am working on providing a new desktop selection dialog in
> > installation
> > as specified in https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/14936 . So
> > after some tweaking and
> > thinking I use roles functionality dialog we already had in SLES,
> > just with desktop selection. It will allows us in future more
> > potential tuning for specified desktops.
> >
> > You can see result in
> > https://github.com/yast/skelcd-control-openSUSE/pull/73
> > ( screenshots and videos ). What do you think about it? I welcome
> > any feedback. I add there to comparison also old work-flow where is
> > one screen with online repos which we currently integrate in
> > desktop selection.
> >
> > Thanks for any feedback
> >
> > Josef  

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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Roger Price
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017, Josef Reidinger wrote:

> I worry it will be too confusing for beginners, we try to have easy
> decisions and if user need something more advanced, that for such
> purpose is that custom, which allows to specify any pattern you want.
> Also it can easily switch to flame war what should be there and what
> not.
> Goal of that dialog would be to allow easy UI for common scenarios
> like workstation with major desktops and minimal server. For other
> users we allows patterns selection and even in summary you can fine
> tune it with full software selection if you want. As can be seen in
> third gif, picking e.g. lxde is also very easy with it, just one click
> more.

+1 for easy selection of lxde.  I hope that any replacement desktop
selection menu will be as simple and straightforward as the current one.

Roger
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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Robert Kaiser
In reply to this post by Josef Reidinger-3
Josef Reidinger schrieb:
> I worry it will be too confusing for beginners, we try to have easy
> decisions and if user need something more advanced, that for such
> purpose is that custom, which allows to specify any pattern you want.

I agree. What about splitting the list into visual sections but still
acting like one single radio group?
For example:

Desktop
  O  KDE Plasma Workstation
  O  GNOME Workstation
Server
  O  Text Mode
Custom
  O  Manually Select Packages


It would still act the same but visually have the actual "role" (esp.
Desktop/Server) as a category.

All that said, I pretty much liked the KDE/GNOME icons on the "old"
version as well. ;-)

Robert Kaiser
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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Axel Braun-2
Am Freitag, 10. Februar 2017, 16:49:19 CET schrieb Robert Kaiser:

> Josef Reidinger schrieb:
> > I worry it will be too confusing for beginners, we try to have easy
> > decisions and if user need something more advanced, that for such
> > purpose is that custom, which allows to specify any pattern you want.
>
> I agree. What about splitting the list into visual sections but still
> acting like one single radio group?
> For example:
>
> Desktop
>   O  KDE Plasma Workstation
>   O  GNOME Workstation

Desktop
  O  KDE Plasma Workstation
  O  other Desktops (GNOME, Mate, ....)
Server
....

- this shows that KDE is the primary desktop of openSUSE
- it clearly states what else is behind ('Manually select packages' is not
self explaining to newbies - it looks scary IMO

my 2c
Axel
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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Josef Reidinger-3
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On 2017-02-10 16:12, Josef Reidinger wrote:
> Goal of that dialog would be to allow easy UI for common scenarios
> like workstation with major desktops and minimal server. For other
> users we allows patterns selection and even in summary you can
> fine tune it with full software selection if you want. As can be
> seen in third gif, picking e.g. lxde is also very easy with it,
> just one click more.

First time users may want other desktops than the majors.

I miss at least the "minimal graphical install" that was available on
previous versions.

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

  (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))
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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Roman Bysh
On 10/02/17 01:41 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On 2017-02-10 16:12, Josef Reidinger wrote:
> > Goal of that dialog would be to allow easy UI for common scenarios
> > like workstation with major desktops and minimal server. For other
> > users we allows patterns selection and even in summary you can
> > fine tune it with full software selection if you want. As can be
> > seen in third gif, picking e.g. lxde is also very easy with it,
> > just one click more.
>
> First time users may want other desktops than the majors.
>
> I miss at least the "minimal graphical install" that was available on
> previous versions.
>
> - --
> Cheers / Saludos,
>
>         Carlos E. R.
>
>   (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))
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> ufUqqW5IdkGgOnNEqxMA/1eGoCf46aA7jciE3XTR+l0FutmAnaw90RLdN68QcCVE
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>
What about Cinnamon? Very popular.

Roman
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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Roman Bysh
In reply to this post by Josef Reidinger-3
On 10/02/17 02:57 AM, Josef Reidinger wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 02:48:48 +0100
> "Carlos E. R." <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA256
>>
>> On 2017-02-09 18:03, Daniele wrote:
>>> Il 09/02/2017 12:23, Josef Reidinger ha scritto:
>>>> Hi Factory users and developers, I am working on providing a new
>>>> desktop selection dialog in installation as specified in
>>>> https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/14936 . So after some
>>>> tweaking and thinking I use roles functionality dialog we already
>>>> had in SLES, just with desktop selection. It will allows us in
>>>> future more potential tuning for specified desktops.
>>>>
>>>> You can see result in
>>>> https://github.com/yast/skelcd-control-openSUSE/pull/73 (
>>>> screenshots and videos ). What do you think about it? I welcome
>>>> any feedback. I add there to comparison also old work-flow where
>>>> is one screen with online repos which we currently integrate in
>>>> desktop selection.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any feedback
>>>>
>>>> Josef
>>>>
>>> HI, I don't like the "role" word for a desktop selection.
>>>
>>> IMHO, Gnome/kde -> same role with different DE.
>
> Thanks for feedback.
>
>>
>> Likewise, I do not understand why using the word "role".
>>
>
> So what you suggest as better name? or do you agree with simon
> suggestion lower, to use Desktop(GNOME) and Desktop(KDE) as role?
>
>>
>> Also, it is not clear what happens when clicking "custom". Will I have
>> to play with choosing the appropriate patterns, or will there be a
>> simple tick to choose XFCE, LXDE, minimal X, etc?
>
> I hope it is clear from video. You pick pattern there which fits your
> needs. It is targeted for slightly more experienced users, that know
> what they want ( in video I choose LXDE if I remember correctly ) and
> it is pattern based, so it allows easy future addition of additional
> repos.
>
>>
>> Another behaviour that should be allowed would be choosing both KDE
>> and Gnome (and more) right at the first install (without going to
>> patterns).
>
> I worry that it would confuse users even more. E.g. which desktop
> manager to pick? what will be default? and some others together do not
> make much sense, like text based server and kde together.

Josef,

Under Custom, can you please add Cinnamon. Ever since Linux Mint introduced
Cinnamon it has been a very popular DE selection.

Roman
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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Fabian Vogt
Hi,

In my opinion the role-based selection that SLE has does not fit
openSUSE at all. Instead, I suggest keeping the current appearance
and just change a few things:

Add screenshots:
Large enough to be distinguishable. Also with a longer description
next to it, to make the decision easier.

No "other" selection:
Instead make the view scrollable, the usual GNOME + KDE + Nothing
triplet on top is visible by default. IMO that's more fair.
Also, it makes it possible to add *all* desktops we currently
ship in the official repos (which only makes sense for the NET
install and for the DVD with online repos active).

No "Choose Patterns" button:
Instead, "Minimal System" (always on the bottom, it's for experts)
can be selected and the package selection edited later.
Otherwise there are two ways of achieving the same result, which
is IMO misleading.

Add version information, if possible:
Currently there is no easy way to get that information except
looking at the packages directly or installing the system...

Cheers,
Fabian

Am Freitag, 10. Februar 2017, 14:21:14 CET schrieb Roman Bysh:

> On 10/02/17 02:57 AM, Josef Reidinger wrote:
> > On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 02:48:48 +0100
> > "Carlos E. R." <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >> Hash: SHA256
> >>
> >> On 2017-02-09 18:03, Daniele wrote:
> >>> Il 09/02/2017 12:23, Josef Reidinger ha scritto:
> >>>> Hi Factory users and developers, I am working on providing a new
> >>>> desktop selection dialog in installation as specified in
> >>>> https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/14936 . So after some
> >>>> tweaking and thinking I use roles functionality dialog we already
> >>>> had in SLES, just with desktop selection. It will allows us in
> >>>> future more potential tuning for specified desktops.
> >>>>
> >>>> You can see result in
> >>>> https://github.com/yast/skelcd-control-openSUSE/pull/73 (
> >>>> screenshots and videos ). What do you think about it? I welcome
> >>>> any feedback. I add there to comparison also old work-flow where
> >>>> is one screen with online repos which we currently integrate in
> >>>> desktop selection.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for any feedback
> >>>>
> >>>> Josef
> >>>>
> >>> HI, I don't like the "role" word for a desktop selection.
> >>>
> >>> IMHO, Gnome/kde -> same role with different DE.
> >
> > Thanks for feedback.
> >
> >>
> >> Likewise, I do not understand why using the word "role".
> >>
> >
> > So what you suggest as better name? or do you agree with simon
> > suggestion lower, to use Desktop(GNOME) and Desktop(KDE) as role?
> >
> >>
> >> Also, it is not clear what happens when clicking "custom". Will I have
> >> to play with choosing the appropriate patterns, or will there be a
> >> simple tick to choose XFCE, LXDE, minimal X, etc?
> >
> > I hope it is clear from video. You pick pattern there which fits your
> > needs. It is targeted for slightly more experienced users, that know
> > what they want ( in video I choose LXDE if I remember correctly ) and
> > it is pattern based, so it allows easy future addition of additional
> > repos.
> >
> >>
> >> Another behaviour that should be allowed would be choosing both KDE
> >> and Gnome (and more) right at the first install (without going to
> >> patterns).
> >
> > I worry that it would confuse users even more. E.g. which desktop
> > manager to pick? what will be default? and some others together do not
> > make much sense, like text based server and kde together.
>
> Josef,
>
> Under Custom, can you please add Cinnamon. Ever since Linux Mint introduced
> Cinnamon it has been a very popular DE selection.
>
> Roman
>

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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Simon Lees-3
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2


On 02/11/2017 05:11 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2017-02-10 16:12, Josef Reidinger wrote:
>> Goal of that dialog would be to allow easy UI for common scenarios
>> like workstation with major desktops and minimal server. For other
>> users we allows patterns selection and even in summary you can
>> fine tune it with full software selection if you want. As can be
>> seen in third gif, picking e.g. lxde is also very easy with it,
>> just one click more.
>
> First time users may want other desktops than the majors.
>
> I miss at least the "minimal graphical install" that was available on
> previous versions.
>
>
To do that with this proposal you simply pick "Other" then the "Minimal
X11 Pattern" which will give you the same result.

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Re: new desktop selection for opensuse

Simon Lees-3
In reply to this post by Axel Braun-2


On 02/11/2017 03:58 AM, Axel Braun wrote:

> Am Freitag, 10. Februar 2017, 16:49:19 CET schrieb Robert Kaiser:
>> Josef Reidinger schrieb:
>>> I worry it will be too confusing for beginners, we try to have easy
>>> decisions and if user need something more advanced, that for such
>>> purpose is that custom, which allows to specify any pattern you want.
>>
>> I agree. What about splitting the list into visual sections but still
>> acting like one single radio group?
>> For example:
>>
>> Desktop
>>   O  KDE Plasma Workstation
>>   O  GNOME Workstation
>
> Desktop
>   O  KDE Plasma Workstation
>   O  other Desktops (GNOME, Mate, ....)
> Server
> ....
>
> - this shows that KDE is the primary desktop of openSUSE
Except to the best of my knowledge atleast we still treat Gnome and KDE
equally

> - it clearly states what else is behind ('Manually select packages' is not
> self explaining to newbies - it looks scary IMO
>
> my 2c
> Axel
>

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