my impression

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my impression

James Bunnell
This is the impression I had of this list:

https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Factory
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Re: my impression

Carlos E. R.-2
On 2017-07-20 01:30, James wrote:
> This is the impression I had of this list:
>
> https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Factory

You need to look at this one instead, for mail list info:

https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Communication_channels#Mailing_lists

    [hidden email] - This is the list for technical
discussions related to the development of the openSUSE Distributions..


It does not limit the mail list to a single distribution ;-)


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                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: my impression

James Bunnell
Carlos E. R.:

> On 2017-07-20 01:30, James wrote:
>> This is the impression I had of this list:
>>
>> https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Factory
>
> You need to look at this one instead, for mail list info:
>
> https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Communication_channels#Mailing_lists
>
>     [hidden email] - This is the list for technical
> discussions related to the development of the openSUSE Distributions..
>
>
> It does not limit the mail list to a single distribution ;-)
>
>
I see a lot of Leap discussion here, which as I run Tumbleweed, doesnt
apply to me. Perhaps I should just look for another medium then.
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Re: my impression

Carlos E. R.-2
On 2017-07-20 01:40, James wrote:

> Carlos E. R.:
>> On 2017-07-20 01:30, James wrote:
>>> This is the impression I had of this list:
>>>
>>> https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Factory
>>
>> You need to look at this one instead, for mail list info:
>>
>> https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Communication_channels#Mailing_lists
>>
>>     [hidden email] - This is the list for technical
>> discussions related to the development of the openSUSE Distributions..
>>
>>
>> It does not limit the mail list to a single distribution ;-)
>>
>>
> I see a lot of Leap discussion here, which as I run Tumbleweed, doesnt
> apply to me. Perhaps I should just look for another medium then.
No, this is the correct mail list for Tumbleweed. There are other
avenues, like the forum, but the mail list is where you will find most
recent info and access to the developers.

The Leap discussions are temporary, because Leap is Beta phase. In about
a month they will be silent till next release.

However, for questions about user things, you can and should just use
the plain [hidden email] mail list, but saying that you are using
TW. Questions like "I have a problem with LibreOffice".


Don't worry if some one appears to growl. We don't bite ;-)
Even old timers are growled at sometimes :-p

We are from many countries, cultures, different senses of humour,
different triggers... Just bear with us for a little while and you'll
start to appreciate us ;-)


--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: my impression

Simon Lees-3
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2


On 20/07/17 09:07, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2017-07-20 01:30, James wrote:
>> This is the impression I had of this list:
>>
>> https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Factory
>
> You need to look at this one instead, for mail list info:
>
> https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Communication_channels#Mailing_lists
>
>     [hidden email] - This is the list for technical
> discussions related to the development of the openSUSE Distributions..
>
>
> It does not limit the mail list to a single distribution ;-)
>
>
Thanks for pointing it out, I updated the description on the factory
portal to match because its a much better description (one of the joys
of a wiki is anyone can do this).

--

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Re: my impression

Patrick Shanahan-2
* Simon Lees <[hidden email]> [07-19-17 20:12]:

>
>
> On 20/07/17 09:07, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> > On 2017-07-20 01:30, James wrote:
> >> This is the impression I had of this list:
> >>
> >> https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Factory
> >
> > You need to look at this one instead, for mail list info:
> >
> > https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Communication_channels#Mailing_lists
> >
> >     [hidden email] - This is the list for technical
> > discussions related to the development of the openSUSE Distributions..
> >
> >
> > It does not limit the mail list to a single distribution ;-)
> >
> >
>
> Thanks for pointing it out, I updated the description on the factory
> portal to match because its a much better description (one of the joys
> of a wiki is anyone can do this).

normally, discussion about a distro on factory would point to tumbleweed,
but leap is about to be released and factory is where development is
discussed.  after leap is released, discussion of it *should* return to
opensuse list and discussion of tw would be on factory.

does that muddle the waters a bit?
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Re: my impression

Simon Lees-3
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2


On 20/07/17 09:28, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2017-07-20 01:40, James wrote:
>> Carlos E. R.:
>>> On 2017-07-20 01:30, James wrote:
>>>> This is the impression I had of this list:
>>>>
>>>> https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Factory
>>>
>>> You need to look at this one instead, for mail list info:
>>>
>>> https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Communication_channels#Mailing_lists
>>>
>>>     [hidden email] - This is the list for technical
>>> discussions related to the development of the openSUSE Distributions..
>>>
>>>
>>> It does not limit the mail list to a single distribution ;-)
>>>
>>>
>> I see a lot of Leap discussion here, which as I run Tumbleweed, doesnt
>> apply to me. Perhaps I should just look for another medium then.
>
> No, this is the correct mail list for Tumbleweed. There are other
> avenues, like the forum, but the mail list is where you will find most
> recent info and access to the developers.
>
Well no its not the correct mailing list for all tumbleweed discussion,
its the correct list for openSUSE Development discussion, as almost all
new development features go into tumbleweed first we end up discussing
tumbleweed changes a lot here.

> The Leap discussions are temporary, because Leap is Beta phase. In about
> a month they will be silent till next release.
>
> However, for questions about user things, you can and should just use
> the plain [hidden email] mail list, but saying that you are using
> TW. Questions like "I have a problem with LibreOffice".
>

Correct issues with how to use openSUSE and software it ships should go
there, but if you have a issue / bug specific to a single piece of
software it really should go in bugzilla. If its a bug that broke
something in the last tumbleweed snapshot and its likely to have a big
impact on a number of people its useful to post here.

You posted your question to the correct list, it got answered by the
correct person and there was some other noise you ignored, unfortunately
that happens a bit.

--

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Re: my impression

James Bunnell
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
Carlos E. R.:

> On 2017-07-20 01:40, James wrote:
>> Carlos E. R.:
>>> On 2017-07-20 01:30, James wrote:
>>>> This is the impression I had of this list:
>>>>
>>>> https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Factory
>>>
>>> You need to look at this one instead, for mail list info:
>>>
>>> https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Communication_channels#Mailing_lists
>>>
>>>     [hidden email] - This is the list for technical
>>> discussions related to the development of the openSUSE Distributions..
>>>
>>>
>>> It does not limit the mail list to a single distribution ;-)
>>>
>>>
>> I see a lot of Leap discussion here, which as I run Tumbleweed, doesnt
>> apply to me. Perhaps I should just look for another medium then.
>
> No, this is the correct mail list for Tumbleweed. There are other
> avenues, like the forum, but the mail list is where you will find most
> recent info and access to the developers.
>
> The Leap discussions are temporary, because Leap is Beta phase. In about
> a month they will be silent till next release.
>
> However, for questions about user things, you can and should just use
> the plain [hidden email] mail list, but saying that you are using
> TW. Questions like "I have a problem with LibreOffice".
>
>
> Don't worry if some one appears to growl. We don't bite ;-)
> Even old timers are growled at sometimes :-p
>
> We are from many countries, cultures, different senses of humour,
> different triggers... Just bear with us for a little while and you'll
> start to appreciate us ;-)
>
>
I left [hidden email] because of the bickering. I was not getting
much out of it. I want to be a member of openSUSE but not at the cost of
having to bicker about one thing or another all the time. Or, the way
someone words something. I really enjoy this distro. As I've told some
folks, I used mac for 7 years before settling on openSUSE. I tried
several .deb versions and even devuan. None set my feelings as this one.
And I like the rolling releases. It matches Windows, Mac, Gentoo, and a
couple others now. I dont care for Leap as that is a maintained periodic
release like Fedora. So, the bickering just turns me off.

jim.
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Re: my impression

Simon Lees-3


On 20/07/17 11:51, James wrote:

> Carlos E. R.:
>> On 2017-07-20 01:40, James wrote:
>>> Carlos E. R.:
>>>> On 2017-07-20 01:30, James wrote:
>>>>> This is the impression I had of this list:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Factory
>>>>
>>>> You need to look at this one instead, for mail list info:
>>>>
>>>> https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Communication_channels#Mailing_lists
>>>>
>>>>     [hidden email] - This is the list for technical
>>>> discussions related to the development of the openSUSE Distributions..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It does not limit the mail list to a single distribution ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I see a lot of Leap discussion here, which as I run Tumbleweed, doesnt
>>> apply to me. Perhaps I should just look for another medium then.
>>
>> No, this is the correct mail list for Tumbleweed. There are other
>> avenues, like the forum, but the mail list is where you will find most
>> recent info and access to the developers.
>>
>> The Leap discussions are temporary, because Leap is Beta phase. In about
>> a month they will be silent till next release.
>>
>> However, for questions about user things, you can and should just use
>> the plain [hidden email] mail list, but saying that you are using
>> TW. Questions like "I have a problem with LibreOffice".
>>
>>
>> Don't worry if some one appears to growl. We don't bite ;-)
>> Even old timers are growled at sometimes :-p
>>
>> We are from many countries, cultures, different senses of humour,
>> different triggers... Just bear with us for a little while and you'll
>> start to appreciate us ;-)
>>
>>
> I left [hidden email] because of the bickering. I was not getting
> much out of it. I want to be a member of openSUSE but not at the cost of
> having to bicker about one thing or another all the time. Or, the way
> someone words something. I really enjoy this distro. As I've told some
> folks, I used mac for 7 years before settling on openSUSE. I tried
> several .deb versions and even devuan. None set my feelings as this one.
> And I like the rolling releases. It matches Windows, Mac, Gentoo, and a
> couple others now. I dont care for Leap as that is a maintained periodic
> release like Fedora. So, the bickering just turns me off.
>
> jim.
>
Well stick around, its normally not bad. the community for the most part
is really friendly and helpful, if you want other ways to interact with
them there is also the forums and #suse on freenode's irc network.

--

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Emergency Update Team                           keybase.io/simotek
SUSE Linux                           Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30
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Re: my impression

James Bunnell
Simon Lees:

> Well stick around, its normally not bad. the community for the most part
> is really friendly and helpful, if you want other ways to interact with
> them there is also the forums and #suse on freenode's irc network.
>

I'll stick around. I'm in the IRC channel too, however that seems pretty
off the charts at times too. I asked one simple question in there. The
Op asked me if I was 12. It took off from there as I dont put up with
that kind noise. I'm too old for that. The guy should not be an op if he
is going to treat folks like that. I will not go back to
[hidden email] as I wasnt getting much from that.
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Re: my impression

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by James Bunnell
On 2017-07-20 04:21, James wrote:
> Carlos E. R.:


>> However, for questions about user things, you can and should just use
>> the plain [hidden email] mail list, but saying that you are using
>> TW. Questions like "I have a problem with LibreOffice".
>>
>>
>> Don't worry if some one appears to growl. We don't bite ;-)
>> Even old timers are growled at sometimes :-p
>>
>> We are from many countries, cultures, different senses of humour,
>> different triggers... Just bear with us for a little while and you'll
>> start to appreciate us ;-)
>>
>>
> I left [hidden email] because of the bickering. I was not getting
> much out of it. I want to be a member of openSUSE but not at the cost of
> having to bicker about one thing or another all the time. Or, the way
> someone words something. I really enjoy this distro. As I've told some
> folks, I used mac for 7 years before settling on openSUSE. I tried
> several .deb versions and even devuan. None set my feelings as this one.
> And I like the rolling releases. It matches Windows, Mac, Gentoo, and a
> couple others now. I dont care for Leap as that is a maintained periodic
> release like Fedora. So, the bickering just turns me off.
Believe me, despite some bickering now and then, the people at the
[hidden email] mail list are really helpful. I have got solved
uncountable problems thanks to them.

Yes, there is some noise, as it is not moderated. If it were it would be
very silent and dull; it would be worse (has happened on other places,
they die).

If you want a moderated place, then the forums are the thing for you.
Either via web, or via nntp.

--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: my impression

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Simon Lees-3
On 2017-07-20 02:10, Simon Lees wrote:

>
>
> On 20/07/17 09:07, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2017-07-20 01:30, James wrote:
>>> This is the impression I had of this list:
>>>
>>> https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Factory
>>
>> You need to look at this one instead, for mail list info:
>>
>> https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Communication_channels#Mailing_lists
>>
>>     [hidden email] - This is the list for technical
>> discussions related to the development of the openSUSE Distributions..
>>
>>
>> It does not limit the mail list to a single distribution ;-)
>>
>>
>
> Thanks for pointing it out, I updated the description on the factory
> portal to match because its a much better description (one of the joys
> of a wiki is anyone can do this).
Ah, you reminded me of this, thanks. I took the liberty of adding info
about [hidden email] list at the communication channels page.
Strange there was nothing said about it there.

--
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                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: my impression

Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink
In reply to this post by James Bunnell
Op donderdag 20 juli 2017 04:31:00 CEST schreef James:
> Simon Lees:
> > Well stick around, its normally not bad. the community for the most part
> > is really friendly and helpful, if you want other ways to interact with
> > them there is also the forums and #suse on freenode's irc network.
>
> I'll stick around. I'm in the IRC channel too, however that seems pretty
> off the charts at times too. I asked one simple question in there. The
> Op asked me if I was 12.

James, please report such things, bring it out in the open. Things you're
mentioning IMNSHO are not openSUSE worthy.

> It took off from there as I dont put up with
> that kind noise. I'm too old for that. The guy should not be an op if he
> is going to treat folks like that. I will not go back to
> [hidden email] as I wasnt getting much from that.


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openSUSE Forums Team
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Re: my impression

Brian K. White
In reply to this post by James Bunnell
On 7/19/2017 10:21 PM, James wrote:

> I left [hidden email] because of the bickering. I was not getting
> much out of it. I want to be a member of openSUSE but not at the cost of
> having to bicker about one thing or another all the time. Or, the way
> someone words something. I really enjoy this distro. As I've told some
> folks, I used mac for 7 years before settling on openSUSE. I tried
> several .deb versions and even devuan. None set my feelings as this one.
> And I like the rolling releases. It matches Windows, Mac, Gentoo, and a
> couple others now. I dont care for Leap as that is a maintained periodic
> release like Fedora. So, the bickering just turns me off.
>
> jim.

You are committing bickering with this very post.

This very post of yours, also includes no interesting on-topic
information or question relating to opensuse development.

Now tell us again how terrible such people are who do that.

--
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Re: my impression

James Bunnell
Brian K. White:

> On 7/19/2017 10:21 PM, James wrote:
>
>> I left [hidden email] because of the bickering. I was not getting
>> much out of it. I want to be a member of openSUSE but not at the cost of
>> having to bicker about one thing or another all the time. Or, the way
>> someone words something. I really enjoy this distro. As I've told some
>> folks, I used mac for 7 years before settling on openSUSE. I tried
>> several .deb versions and even devuan. None set my feelings as this one.
>> And I like the rolling releases. It matches Windows, Mac, Gentoo, and a
>> couple others now. I dont care for Leap as that is a maintained periodic
>> release like Fedora. So, the bickering just turns me off.
>>
>> jim.
>
> You are committing bickering with this very post.
>
> This very post of yours, also includes no interesting on-topic
> information or question relating to opensuse development.
>
> Now tell us again how terrible such people are who do that.
>
i can leave this one too if it bothers you that much. :(
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Re: my impression

Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink
In reply to this post by Brian K. White
Top posting here too.

Stop these personal attacks. Now. If you can't we'd have to find people to
moderate these lists before we can propagate usage of the mailing lists as a
support platform. All the mailing lists are openSUSE mailing lists. Please
keep that in mind and have this kind of nit-picking elsewhere.


Op vrijdag 21 juli 2017 00:18:43 CEST schreef Brian K. White:

> On 7/19/2017 10:21 PM, James wrote:
> > I left [hidden email] because of the bickering. I was not getting
> > much out of it. I want to be a member of openSUSE but not at the cost of
> > having to bicker about one thing or another all the time. Or, the way
> > someone words something. I really enjoy this distro. As I've told some
> > folks, I used mac for 7 years before settling on openSUSE. I tried
> > several .deb versions and even devuan. None set my feelings as this one.
> > And I like the rolling releases. It matches Windows, Mac, Gentoo, and a
> > couple others now. I dont care for Leap as that is a maintained periodic
> > release like Fedora. So, the bickering just turns me off.
> >
> > jim.
>
> You are committing bickering with this very post.
>
> This very post of yours, also includes no interesting on-topic
> information or question relating to opensuse development.
>
> Now tell us again how terrible such people are who do that.


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Re: my impression

Brian K. White
In reply to this post by James Bunnell
On 7/20/2017 6:20 PM, James wrote:

> Brian K. White:
>> On 7/19/2017 10:21 PM, James wrote:
>>
>>> I left [hidden email] because of the bickering. I was not getting
>>> much out of it. I want to be a member of openSUSE but not at the cost of
>>> having to bicker about one thing or another all the time. Or, the way
>>> someone words something. I really enjoy this distro. As I've told some
>>> folks, I used mac for 7 years before settling on openSUSE. I tried
>>> several .deb versions and even devuan. None set my feelings as this one.
>>> And I like the rolling releases. It matches Windows, Mac, Gentoo, and a
>>> couple others now. I dont care for Leap as that is a maintained periodic
>>> release like Fedora. So, the bickering just turns me off.
>>>
>>> jim.
>>
>> You are committing bickering with this very post.
>>
>> This very post of yours, also includes no interesting on-topic
>> information or question relating to opensuse development.
>>
>> Now tell us again how terrible such people are who do that.
>>
> i can leave this one too if it bothers you that much. :(
>

Where did I say it bothered me?

What I said was that you are doing the very thing you claim is so awful.
Given that, why should anyone care what your feelings are on it?

The only valid justifications I see for trying to control anyone else's
conversations are:

* completely off-topic, as in not even something that naturally
branched, or is tangentially related to something topical, but purely
really unrelated.

* spam (technically already covered as a subset of off-topic, then again
I suppose there could be such a thing as topical spam, like selling
opensuse support or something)

* personal attacks or other clearly bad behavior like advocating illegal
activities or violence or something.

"I'm sick of hearing about ___" does not qualify. For those threads, you
can simply not join them if they are uninteresting to you. You have no
place to try to dictate that all the other people in those threads you
aren't interest in, stop talking about things you personally aren't
interested in.

So, for instance, I didn't say we can't have this very discussion we're
having now. I'm fine with it. What I said was you are a hypocrite, and
that IS bad behavior.

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Re: my impression

Brian K. White
In reply to this post by Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink
On 7/20/2017 6:37 PM, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
> Top posting here too.
>
> Stop these personal attacks. Now. If you can't we'd have to find people to

Please quote the personal attack to justify that accusation.

Do you know what the term means, & what makes it a bad thing?
Because an example of it does not exist in the post you quote from.

If you would level a charge of bad behavior, I would say that a false
accusation of that nature is pretty bad behavior.

--
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> moderate these lists before we can propagate usage of the mailing lists as a
> support platform. All the mailing lists are openSUSE mailing lists. Please
> keep that in mind and have this kind of nit-picking elsewhere.
>
>
> Op vrijdag 21 juli 2017 00:18:43 CEST schreef Brian K. White:
>> On 7/19/2017 10:21 PM, James wrote:
>>> I left [hidden email] because of the bickering. I was not getting
>>> much out of it. I want to be a member of openSUSE but not at the cost of
>>> having to bicker about one thing or another all the time. Or, the way
>>> someone words something. I really enjoy this distro. As I've told some
>>> folks, I used mac for 7 years before settling on openSUSE. I tried
>>> several .deb versions and even devuan. None set my feelings as this one.
>>> And I like the rolling releases. It matches Windows, Mac, Gentoo, and a
>>> couple others now. I dont care for Leap as that is a maintained periodic
>>> release like Fedora. So, the bickering just turns me off.
>>>
>>> jim.
>>
>> You are committing bickering with this very post.
>>
>> This very post of yours, also includes no interesting on-topic
>> information or question relating to opensuse development.
>>
>> Now tell us again how terrible such people are who do that.
>
>

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Re: my impression

Fraser_Bell
In reply to this post by Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink
On 07/20/2017 03:37 PM, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
> Top posting here too.
>
> Stop these personal attacks. Now. If you can't we'd have to find people to
> moderate these lists before we can propagate usage of the mailing lists as a
> support platform. All the mailing lists are openSUSE mailing lists. Please
> keep that in mind and have this kind of nit-picking elsewhere.

I only subscribed to and started using the mailing lists within the past
few months.  What I have seen on them, coming from all sides, is very
distressing and I, too, am wondering about the usefullness of the
mailing lists.

I may drop them because they are too noisy and vitriolic.

I am beginning to think that they should be moderated, the same as the
forums, as you suggest.

In the meantime, might I suggest all openSUSE members, from the top
down, once more read through the material posted here?:

https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Guiding_principles

--
-Gerry Makaro
aka Fraser_Bell on the forums, IRC, and mail at openSUSE.org
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Re: my impression

Carlos E. R.-2
On 2017-07-21 01:08, Fraser_Bell wrote:

> On 07/20/2017 03:37 PM, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
>> Top posting here too.
>>
>> Stop these personal attacks. Now. If you can't we'd have to find
>> people to
>> moderate these lists before we can propagate usage of the mailing
>> lists as a
>> support platform. All the mailing lists are openSUSE mailing lists.
>> Please
>> keep that in mind and have this kind of nit-picking elsewhere.
>
> I only subscribed to and started using the mailing lists within the past
> few months.  What I have seen on them, coming from all sides, is very
> distressing and I, too, am wondering about the usefullness of the
> mailing lists.
>
> I may drop them because they are too noisy and vitriolic.
>
> I am beginning to think that they should be moderated, the same as the
> forums, as you suggest.
That would be the death of the mail lists, and maybe that is what he wants.

--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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