multiple kernels?

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multiple kernels?

George from the tribe
Is this a problem? I noticed this when I was running an update on my
smaller laptop:

-----------------------
# zypper up
Loading repository data...
Reading installed packages...

The following 4 package updates will NOT be installed:
   audacity flac libFLAC++6 libFLAC8

The following 2 NEW packages are going to be installed:
   kernel-devel-4.4.70-18.9.1 kernel-source-4.4.70-18.9.1
----------------------

I was thinking, I thought I had kernel 4.11 from the kernel:stable repo,
as that is what I have been using on this laptop. So, I ran this:

----------------------
george@tribetrekDell:~> uname -r
4.11.3-1.g7262353-default
george@tribetrekDell:~> rpm -q kernel-devel
kernel-devel-4.7.6-1.1.gfb37fcc.noarch
kernel-devel-4.7.5-3.1.ge3f5518.noarch
kernel-devel-4.4.62-18.6.1.noarch
kernel-devel-4.11.3-1.1.g7262353.noarch
george@tribetrekDell:~> rpm -q kernel-default
kernel-default-4.7.5-3.1.ge3f5518.x86_64
kernel-default-4.11.3-1.1.g7262353.x86_64
----------------------

Sure enough, I am running kernel 4.11, but I have packages for multiple
kernels installed, and the update packages that zypper is saying it is
going to install are not even matching to the kernel I am using.

Maybe this is contributing to why this system seems so unstable when I
am running KDE?

Any ideas on why these multiple kernel packages are installed, and
possibly, how to fix? I assumed that when updates have been made in the
past, the dependencies features should have removed old packages. I only
use zypper up to update my system.

--
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Box:       42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | AMD Phenom IIX4 | 64 | 32GB
Laptop #1: 42.2 | Gnome 3.20     | AMD FX 7TH GEN  | 64 | 12GB
Laptop #2: 42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | Core i5         | 64 | 8GB

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Re: multiple kernels?

Stakanov Schufter
In data lunedì 12 giugno 2017 07:14:43 CEST, George from the tribe ha scritto:

> Is this a problem? I noticed this when I was running an update on my
> smaller laptop:
>
> -----------------------
> # zypper up
> Loading repository data...
> Reading installed packages...
>
> The following 4 package updates will NOT be installed:
>    audacity flac libFLAC++6 libFLAC8
>
> The following 2 NEW packages are going to be installed:
>    kernel-devel-4.4.70-18.9.1 kernel-source-4.4.70-18.9.1
> ----------------------
>
> I was thinking, I thought I had kernel 4.11 from the kernel:stable repo,
> as that is what I have been using on this laptop. So, I ran this:
>
> ----------------------
> george@tribetrekDell:~> uname -r
> 4.11.3-1.g7262353-default
> george@tribetrekDell:~> rpm -q kernel-devel
> kernel-devel-4.7.6-1.1.gfb37fcc.noarch
> kernel-devel-4.7.5-3.1.ge3f5518.noarch
> kernel-devel-4.4.62-18.6.1.noarch
> kernel-devel-4.11.3-1.1.g7262353.noarch
> george@tribetrekDell:~> rpm -q kernel-default
> kernel-default-4.7.5-3.1.ge3f5518.x86_64
> kernel-default-4.11.3-1.1.g7262353.x86_64
> ----------------------
>
> Sure enough, I am running kernel 4.11, but I have packages for multiple
> kernels installed, and the update packages that zypper is saying it is
> going to install are not even matching to the kernel I am using.
>
> Maybe this is contributing to why this system seems so unstable when I
> am running KDE?
>
> Any ideas on why these multiple kernel packages are installed, and
> possibly, how to fix? I assumed that when updates have been made in the
> past, the dependencies features should have removed old packages. I only
> use zypper up to update my system.

Just a guess, but check in journal if "purge kernel" is working. I had that on
the beta: it would not purge so, after a while I had a lot of versions
installed, root was full and I needed to delete by hand.




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Re: multiple kernels?

John Andersen-2
In reply to this post by George from the tribe
On 06/12/2017 05:14 AM, George from the tribe wrote:
> Sure enough, I am running kernel 4.11, but I have packages for multiple kernels installed, and the
> update packages that zypper is saying it is going to install are not even matching to the kernel I
> am using.

That's a feature, not a bug.

Should you find a reason to go back to the other kernel, you would want it up to date, No?
So the system does that for you.

If you never see yourself going back to that older kernel, maybe you should uninstall  it.


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Re: multiple kernels?

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by George from the tribe
On 2017-06-12 14:14, George from the tribe wrote:

> Is this a problem? I noticed this when I was running an update on my
> smaller laptop:
>
> -----------------------
> # zypper up
> Loading repository data...
> Reading installed packages...
>
> The following 4 package updates will NOT be installed:
>   audacity flac libFLAC++6 libFLAC8
>
> The following 2 NEW packages are going to be installed:
>   kernel-devel-4.4.70-18.9.1 kernel-source-4.4.70-18.9.1
> ----------------------
>
> I was thinking, I thought I had kernel 4.11 from the kernel:stable repo,
> as that is what I have been using on this laptop. So, I ran this:
>
> ----------------------
> george@tribetrekDell:~> uname -r
> 4.11.3-1.g7262353-default
> george@tribetrekDell:~> rpm -q kernel-devel
> kernel-devel-4.7.6-1.1.gfb37fcc.noarch
> kernel-devel-4.7.5-3.1.ge3f5518.noarch
> kernel-devel-4.4.62-18.6.1.noarch
> kernel-devel-4.11.3-1.1.g7262353.noarch
> george@tribetrekDell:~> rpm -q kernel-default
> kernel-default-4.7.5-3.1.ge3f5518.x86_64
> kernel-default-4.11.3-1.1.g7262353.x86_64
> ----------------------
>
> Sure enough, I am running kernel 4.11, but I have packages for multiple
> kernels installed, and the update packages that zypper is saying it is
> going to install are not even matching to the kernel I am using.
But the official version for your distribution is 4.4.70. Ie, it is what
comes from the update repository.

If you have kernel 4.11 from a non official source, it is your problem
to keep it and its toolchain updated.


> Maybe this is contributing to why this system seems so unstable when I
> am running KDE?

Maybe.

>
> Any ideas on why these multiple kernel packages are installed, and
> possibly, how to fix? I assumed that when updates have been made in the
> past, the dependencies features should have removed old packages. I only
> use zypper up to update my system.

But you told your system to keep 4.4.

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                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: multiple kernels?

George from the tribe
On 06/12/2017 03:06 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2017-06-12 14:14, George from the tribe wrote:

>>
>> Sure enough, I am running kernel 4.11, but I have packages for multiple
>> kernels installed, and the update packages that zypper is saying it is
>> going to install are not even matching to the kernel I am using.
>
> But the official version for your distribution is 4.4.70. Ie, it is what
> comes from the update repository.
>
> If you have kernel 4.11 from a non official source, it is your problem
> to keep it and its toolchain updated.
>
>
>> Maybe this is contributing to why this system seems so unstable when I
>> am running KDE?
>
> Maybe.
>
>>
>> Any ideas on why these multiple kernel packages are installed, and
>> possibly, how to fix? I assumed that when updates have been made in the
>> past, the dependencies features should have removed old packages. I only
>> use zypper up to update my system.
>
> But you told your system to keep 4.4.
>

As far as I know, I don't remember ever telling my system to keep older
kernel packages when I installed the new kernel. I had to install the
new kernel from the kernel:stable repository right from the very
beginning, because my wireless card wouldn't work at the time with the
standard kernel from the update repository.

I didn't have the kernel:stable repository enabled and refreshing when I
started to run that update, which gave me that strange conflict that I
wanted to know about (so I started this thread). So, now I enabled and
refreshed the kernel:stable repository, and it is no longer trying to
install those 2 kernel packages, but is going with all the kernel
updates from the kernel:stable repository. I will run that update and
see what happens. I have a backup in case everything goes badly.

--
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Laptop #1: 42.2 | Gnome 3.20     | AMD FX 7TH GEN  | 64 | 12GB
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Re: multiple kernels?

John Andersen-2
On 06/12/2017 03:40 PM, George from the tribe wrote:
> and it is no longer trying to install those 2 kernel packages, but is going with all the kernel
> updates from the kernel:stable repository. I will run that update and see what happens. I have a
> backup in case everything goes badly.

Of course not, it installed those two already.
But now all the updated you have been missing in 4.11 are being applied.

There is no problem with having two different kernels installed.
Lots of people do it.  Its the normal way of testing new kernels, and zypper keeps ALL installed
kernels up to date (if you let it do so).

In the mean time you've been whining about stability of KDE/Plasma5 without telling us you
are using a non-standard kernel and never applying kernel updates to the kernel you are
using.




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Re: multiple kernels?

George from the tribe
On 06/12/2017 05:57 PM, John Andersen wrote:

> On 06/12/2017 03:40 PM, George from the tribe wrote:
>> and it is no longer trying to install those 2 kernel packages, but is going with all the kernel
>> updates from the kernel:stable repository. I will run that update and see what happens. I have a
>> backup in case everything goes badly.
>
> Of course not, it installed those two already.
> But now all the updated you have been missing in 4.11 are being applied.
>
> There is no problem with having two different kernels installed.
> Lots of people do it.  Its the normal way of testing new kernels, and zypper keeps ALL installed
> kernels up to date (if you let it do so).
>
> In the mean time you've been whining about stability of KDE/Plasma5 without telling us you
> are using a non-standard kernel and never applying kernel updates to the kernel you are
> using.
>
>
>
>
Ok, good to know. I didn't know that zypper keeps all installed kernels.
At some point I will have to figure out how to test the kernels myself.

I had no idea that the newer kernels in the kernel:stable repository
might affect the stability of KDE until recently, when KDE started to
have consistent lockups, and then I noticed this about the kernels.

Your statement there actually brings up an interesting point. Since I am
using the kernel:stable repository, is it better to keep it always
updating the kernel from that repository? The reason I had disabled the
repository was that it seemed that kernel updates were coming through
like every week, and perhaps it would be better to just wait. But your
comment makes me think that perhaps it is better to always update, as
long as I am using an advanced kernel?

The reason I had used the non-standard kernel in the first place was to
get my wireless card working. My thought was that now that it was
working, I would shut off the kernel:stable repository, hold onto the
advanced kernel, and wait until the kernel in the standard repos caught
up to what I was using.

--
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Box:       42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | AMD Phenom IIX4 | 64 | 32GB
Laptop #1: 42.2 | Gnome 3.20     | AMD FX 7TH GEN  | 64 | 12GB
Laptop #2: 42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | Core i5         | 64 | 8GB

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Re: multiple kernels?

David C. Rankin
In reply to this post by George from the tribe
On 06/12/2017 07:14 AM, George from the tribe wrote:

> Is this a problem? I noticed this when I was running an update on my smaller
> laptop:
>
> -----------------------
> # zypper up
> Loading repository data...
> Reading installed packages...
>
> The following 4 package updates will NOT be installed:
>   audacity flac libFLAC++6 libFLAC8
>
> The following 2 NEW packages are going to be installed:
>   kernel-devel-4.4.70-18.9.1 kernel-source-4.4.70-18.9.1
> ----------------------
>
> I was thinking, I thought I had kernel 4.11 from the kernel:stable repo, as
> that is what I have been using on this laptop. So, I ran this:

Is this a problem? - No.

Whether multiple versions of the kernel are kept are controlled by:

  /etc/zypp/zypp.con
    multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel)

The number of kernels kept (for the reasons explained in the other posts) is
controlled by:

  /etc/zypp/zypp.con
    multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel)

The config file provides about 20 lines of explanation regarding each. You can
probably set this through the gui sysconfig-editor, but I always prefer to
just do it by hand.

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Re: multiple kernels?

John Andersen-2
In reply to this post by George from the tribe
On 06/12/2017 04:35 PM, George from the tribe wrote:
> I didn't know that zypper keeps all installed kernels

I believe there is a setting someplace to tell it how many kernels to save.
I believe someone upstream in this thread mentioned checking that setting to be sure the
system is only maintaining the number of kernels you asked for.

> Your statement there actually brings up an interesting point. Since I am using the kernel:stable repository, is it better to keep it always updating the kernel from that repository?

I don't know anything about that repository.  It looks like it refers to Opensuse Build Service, but
other than that I don't know where those kernels come from.  You would not expect to see a kernel
every week.  Even on a rolling release they don't come that fast.

I was looking for kernel 4.11 for Opensuse earlier this month but decided to hold off till 42.3
and see what kernel that brings.  (There are some interesting features in 4.11 with regard to swap
on SSDs). Why hold off?  Because right now this KDE/Plasma5 is one of the best versions I've seen
in a long time.  Stable as a rock, and fast.  If we get 5.10 in 42.2 along with QT 5.9 it will
be even faster.

Perhaps someone else can weigh in on the "officialness" of that particular repository.




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Re: multiple kernels?

Felix Miata-3
John Andersen composed on 2017-06-12 17:23 (UTC-0700):
.
> I was looking for kernel 4.11 for Opensuse earlier this month but decided to
> hold off till 42.3 and see what kernel that brings..
I doubt you have to worry about 42.3 bringing in a kernel newer than 4.4. 4.4
has been in 42.3 since its inception near the subsequently released LTS kernel
4.9, which is already 6 months old, and the next LTS kernel almost certainly
won't happen until long after 42.3 is gold.
Current 42.3: kernel-default-base-4.4.69-2.1.x86_64.rpm 08-Jun-2017 09:38
https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html
--
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Re: multiple kernels?

Felix Miata-3
In reply to this post by John Andersen-2
John Andersen composed on 2017-06-12 17:23 (UTC-0700):

> I believe there is a setting someplace to tell it how many kernels to save. I
> believe someone upstream in this thread mentioned checking that setting to be
> sure the system is only maintaining the number of kernels you asked for..
Default is 2 or 3, depending on which are currently installed, and whether
purge-kernels.service has been enabled and running:
# grep ^multiversion\.k /etc/zypp/zypp.conf
multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,running
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 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

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Re: multiple kernels?

John Andersen-2
In reply to this post by Felix Miata-3
On 06/12/2017 06:02 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
> I doubt you have to worry about 42.3 bringing in a kernel newer than 4.4. 4.4
> has been in 42.3 since its inception near the subsequently released LTS kernel
> 4.9, which is already 6 months old, and the next LTS kernel almost certainly
> won't happen until long after 42.3 is gold.

I'm not worried about it, I'm sort of waiting for it.

There are quite a few fixes newer kernels that would warrant NOT releasing
42.3 with only 4.4 kernel, putting opensuse yet another year behind the curve.

Skylake didn't work well at all until 4.9, and only really came into its
own in 4.10.  There are a boat load of new machines coming out with that
chipset.

If there were some officially maintained alternate kernels that would
be a great alternative.

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Re: multiple kernels?

David C. Rankin
In reply to this post by David C. Rankin
On 06/12/2017 07:12 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:
> The number of kernels kept (for the reasons explained in the other posts) is
> controlled by:
>
>   /etc/zypp/zypp.con
>     multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel)

Of course that is /etc/zypp/zypp.conf  (typo)

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Re: multiple kernels?

George from the tribe
On 06/12/2017 09:52 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:
> On 06/12/2017 07:12 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:
>> The number of kernels kept (for the reasons explained in the other posts) is
>> controlled by:
>>
>>    /etc/zypp/zypp.con
>>      multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel)
>
> Of course that is /etc/zypp/zypp.conf  (typo)
>

good to know, I will check it out, thanks

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Re: multiple kernels?

George from the tribe
In reply to this post by John Andersen-2
On 06/12/2017 07:23 PM, John Andersen wrote:

> On 06/12/2017 04:35 PM, George from the tribe wrote:
>> I didn't know that zypper keeps all installed kernels
>
> I believe there is a setting someplace to tell it how many kernels to save.
> I believe someone upstream in this thread mentioned checking that setting to be sure the
> system is only maintaining the number of kernels you asked for.
>
>> Your statement there actually brings up an interesting point. Since I am using the kernel:stable repository, is it better to keep it always updating the kernel from that repository?
>
> I don't know anything about that repository.  It looks like it refers to Opensuse Build Service, but
> other than that I don't know where those kernels come from.  You would not expect to see a kernel
> every week.  Even on a rolling release they don't come that fast.
>
> I was looking for kernel 4.11 for Opensuse earlier this month but decided to hold off till 42.3
> and see what kernel that brings.  (There are some interesting features in 4.11 with regard to swap
> on SSDs). Why hold off?  Because right now this KDE/Plasma5 is one of the best versions I've seen
> in a long time.  Stable as a rock, and fast.  If we get 5.10 in 42.2 along with QT 5.9 it will
> be even faster.
>
> Perhaps someone else can weigh in on the "officialness" of that particular repository.
>
>
>
>
I am glad to know that it has been stable for you, as that means that I
only need to figure out where mine is not configured correctly and then
it will work. I love KDE too for its features, but on my laptop, home
desktop, and work desktop, I consistently have the kwin crash bug cause
me problems. It is only on my laptop that I am using the advanced
kernel, but that bug remains on the other 2 machines.

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Re: multiple kernels?

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by John Andersen-2
On 2017-06-13 03:27, John Andersen wrote:

> On 06/12/2017 06:02 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
>> I doubt you have to worry about 42.3 bringing in a kernel newer than 4.4. 4.4
>> has been in 42.3 since its inception near the subsequently released LTS kernel
>> 4.9, which is already 6 months old, and the next LTS kernel almost certainly
>> won't happen until long after 42.3 is gold.
>
> I'm not worried about it, I'm sort of waiting for it.
>
> There are quite a few fixes newer kernels that would warrant NOT releasing
> 42.3 with only 4.4 kernel, putting opensuse yet another year behind the curve.
Remember that the Leap kernel comes from SLES, not Tumbleweed.

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                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: multiple kernels?

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by John Andersen-2
On 2017-06-13 02:23, John Andersen wrote:
> On 06/12/2017 04:35 PM, George from the tribe wrote:
>> I didn't know that zypper keeps all installed kernels
>
> I believe there is a setting someplace to tell it how many kernels to save.
> I believe someone upstream in this thread mentioned checking that setting to be sure the
> system is only maintaining the number of kernels you asked for.

That applies to how many from version 4.4 to keep and how many from
version 4.11 to keep. Not the same thing.

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                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: multiple kernels?

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by George from the tribe
On 2017-06-13 01:35, George from the tribe wrote:
> On 06/12/2017 05:57 PM, John Andersen wrote:

> I had no idea that the newer kernels in the kernel:stable repository
> might affect the stability of KDE until recently, when KDE started to
> have consistent lockups, and then I noticed this about the kernels.
>
> Your statement there actually brings up an interesting point. Since I am
> using the kernel:stable repository, is it better to keep it always
> updating the kernel from that repository? The reason I had disabled the
> repository was that it seemed that kernel updates were coming through
> like every week, and perhaps it would be better to just wait. But your
> comment makes me think that perhaps it is better to always update, as
> long as I am using an advanced kernel?
Those kernels are experimental. There is also a risk in updating them.

>
> The reason I had used the non-standard kernel in the first place was to
> get my wireless card working. My thought was that now that it was
> working, I would shut off the kernel:stable repository, hold onto the
> advanced kernel, and wait until the kernel in the standard repos caught
> up to what I was using.

No, Leap 42.2 will not catch up.
And 42.3 comes with kernel 4.4.69

If you have some hardware that doesn't work on 42.2, try 42.3 Beta NOW,
and if it doesn't work, report FAST in bugzilla.

--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: multiple kernels?

Felix Miata-3
In reply to this post by John Andersen-2
John Andersen composed on 2017-06-12 18:27 (UTC-0700):
.
> I'm not worried about it, I'm sort of waiting for it.
.
> There are quite a few fixes newer kernels that would warrant NOT releasing
> 42.3 with only 4.4 kernel, putting opensuse yet another year behind the curve.
.
> Skylake didn't work well at all until 4.9, and only really came into its
> own in 4.10.  There are a boat load of new machines coming out with that
> chipset.
.
> If there were some officially maintained alternate kernels that would
> be a great alternative.
.
Unlikely expressing this sentiment here is capable of producing fruit.
opensuse-factory and opensuse-kernel probably stand a much better, though slim,
chance.
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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Re: multiple kernels?

Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink
In reply to this post by John Andersen-2
Op dinsdag 13 juni 2017 02:23:11 CEST schreef John Andersen:

> On 06/12/2017 04:35 PM, George from the tribe wrote:
> > I didn't know that zypper keeps all installed kernels
>
> I believe there is a setting someplace to tell it how many kernels to save.
> I believe someone upstream in this thread mentioned checking that setting to
> be sure the system is only maintaining the number of kernels you asked for.
>
> > Your statement there actually brings up an interesting point. Since I am
> > using the kernel:stable repository, is it better to keep it always
> > updating the kernel from that repository?
> I don't know anything about that repository.  It looks like it refers to
> Opensuse Build Service, but other than that I don't know where those
> kernels come from.  

http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Kernel:/stable/standard/

> You would not expect to see a kernel every week.  Even
> on a rolling release they don't come that fast.

They do, at least new packages, in Tumbleweed.  

>
> I was looking for kernel 4.11 for Opensuse earlier this month but decided to
> hold off till 42.3 and see what kernel that brings.  (There are some
> interesting features in 4.11 with regard to swap on SSDs).

Leap 42.3 is not going to have kernel 4.11 .

> Why hold off?
> Because right now this KDE/Plasma5 is one of the best versions I've seen in
> a long time.  Stable as a rock, and fast.  If we get 5.10 in 42.2 along
> with QT 5.9 it will be even faster.
>
> Perhaps someone else can weigh in on the "officialness" of that particular
> repository.

The best suggestion IMO always has been to stick to the distribution repos,
add only Packman if you use a desktop and play media.

--
Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht

openSUSE Board Member
openSUSE Forums Team

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