kde apper / updater

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kde apper / updater

nicholas cunliffe
can we 'por el amor de dios' get rid of the updater on TW? I have read
at least 2 threads on the forums this week alone where people have
broken systems because of this. It is useless and misleading.

a gui is not just a graphical environment, it is a 'cue based system
of interaction'. the updater is *actively* misleading users.

it can easily be disabled in 'system tray settings' which i assume is
a single flag in a config.
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Re: kde apper / updater

Knurpht-openSUSE
Op dinsdag 14 november 2017 23:25:23 CET schreef nicholas cunliffe:
> can we 'por el amor de dios' get rid of the updater on TW? I have read
> at least 2 threads on the forums this week alone where people have
> broken systems because of this. It is useless and misleading.
>
> a gui is not just a graphical environment, it is a 'cue based system
> of interaction'. the updater is *actively* misleading users.
>
> it can easily be disabled in 'system tray settings' which i assume is
> a single flag in a config.

I ( as a forums team member ) could very well live with that. Or, and that
would be even better, make packagekit and the applet aware of Tumbleweed's
existence and peticular needs. Have my doubts though, whether external ( KDE )
developent / packaging would be needed

BTW: at least 2 feels like you missed dozens of posts. In the end all these
users step in blindly without reading any of the well-documented iinstructions
on how to deal with TW and it's upgrading ( which it is ) mechanisnms.

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Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht

openSUSE Board Member
openSUSE Forums Team
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Re: kde apper / updater

Cristiano Guadagnino
Hi Knurpht!

On 15/11/2017 00:49, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:

> Op dinsdag 14 november 2017 23:25:23 CET schreef nicholas cunliffe:
>> can we 'por el amor de dios' get rid of the updater on TW? I have read
>> at least 2 threads on the forums this week alone where people have
>> broken systems because of this. It is useless and misleading.
>>
>> a gui is not just a graphical environment, it is a 'cue based system
>> of interaction'. the updater is *actively* misleading users.
>>
>> it can easily be disabled in 'system tray settings' which i assume is
>> a single flag in a config.
> I ( as a forums team member ) could very well live with that. Or, and that
> would be even better, make packagekit and the applet aware of Tumbleweed's
> existence and peticular needs. Have my doubts though, whether external ( KDE )
> developent / packaging would be needed
>
> BTW: at least 2 feels like you missed dozens of posts. In the end all these
> users step in blindly without reading any of the well-documented iinstructions
> on how to deal with TW and it's upgrading ( which it is ) mechanisnms.
>

I like having the updater because it warns me about pending updates,
which I then install using the CLI with the 'zypper dup' command.

OTOH it would be nice if the updater could be made aware of TW. It would
be enough (for me) if the updater would just show the list of updates
*without* offering a way to install them.

I understand this could be a little puzzling for newbies... maybe
instead of the "install updates" button it could have an "info" button
that show a dialog with a few lines describing how to proceed.

Having a GUI updater which actually works with TW (i.e. showing *and*
correctly installing updates) would be nice, but personally I prefer
using the CLI for that.

Just my 2 cents...
Cris

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Re: kde apper / updater

tomtomme
Am 15.11.2017 um 09:17 schrieb Cristiano Guadagnino:

> Hi Knurpht!
>
> On 15/11/2017 00:49, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
>> Op dinsdag 14 november 2017 23:25:23 CET schreef nicholas cunliffe:
>>> can we 'por el amor de dios' get rid of the updater on TW? I have read
>>> at least 2 threads on the forums this week alone where people have
>>> broken systems because of this. It is useless and misleading.
>>>
>>> a gui is not just a graphical environment, it is a 'cue based system
>>> of interaction'. the updater is *actively* misleading users.
>>>
>>> it can easily be disabled in 'system tray settings' which i assume is
>>> a single flag in a config.
>> I ( as a forums team member ) could very well live with that. Or, and
>> that
>> would be even better, make packagekit and the applet aware of
>> Tumbleweed's
>> existence and peticular needs. Have my doubts though, whether external
>> ( KDE )
>> developent / packaging would be needed
>>
>> BTW: at least 2 feels like you missed dozens of posts. In the end all
>> these
>> users step in blindly without reading any of the well-documented
>> iinstructions
>> on how to deal with TW and it's upgrading ( which it is ) mechanisnms.
>>
>
> I like having the updater because it warns me about pending updates,
> which I then install using the CLI with the 'zypper dup' command.
>
> OTOH it would be nice if the updater could be made aware of TW. It would
> be enough (for me) if the updater would just show the list of updates
> *without* offering a way to install them.
>
> I understand this could be a little puzzling for newbies... maybe
> instead of the "install updates" button it could have an "info" button
> that show a dialog with a few lines describing how to proceed.
>
> Having a GUI updater which actually works with TW (i.e. showing *and*
> correctly installing updates) would be nice, but personally I prefer
> using the CLI for that.
>
> Just my 2 cents...
> Cris
>

more 2 cents

the simplest/quickest solution may be to just disable default
installation of the updater on TW but leave it in the repos for users
that know how to deal with it.

thomas
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Re: kde apper / updater

nicholas cunliffe
In reply to this post by Cristiano Guadagnino
I agree that TW aware i.e. implement dup in updater, would be the
best. Failing this however it should be installed but disabled.
1) i disagree that it is useful for notification of new packages,
there are always (over the course of a few days) new packages on
tumbleweed. Your trying to sell an icy conditions alerter for eskimos.
2) since apper is based on up, does it actually give the correct and
complete list of pending updates? (i havn't checked)
3) i disagree that this is somehow the fault of newbies for not
reading documentation, a gui is a cue based system, they are 'guided'
to use the apper by the interface. Documentation is most often read
when people get stuck.
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Re: kde apper / updater

Cristiano Guadagnino
Hi Nicholas

On 15/11/2017 09:39, nicholas cunliffe wrote:
> I agree that TW aware i.e. implement dup in updater, would be the
> best. Failing this however it should be installed but disabled.
> 1) i disagree that it is useful for notification of new packages,
> there are always (over the course of a few days) new packages on
> tumbleweed. Your trying to sell an icy conditions alerter for eskimos.
> (...)

I am not trying to sell anything to anyone!
I am a _user_ (an eskimo in your analogy) and I find it useful.
Wanna debate over preferences?

Cris

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