best FS for Linux and Windows

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best FS for Linux and Windows

David T-G
Hi again, all --

I'm running a dual-boot system (Win 7 and SuSE 42.3 at least for now)
and I would like to have all user content in a data volume accessable
to both.  With the demise of XP and the loss of Explore2FS (IIRC),
I don't know of a good filesystem for use under both.  I certainly can
use NTFS, since Linux can read & write pretty stably, but it of course
has no concept of *NIX permissions (including execution).

Got any ideas for something that works under both but also looks fairly
Linux-ish?


TIA again & HH

:-D
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See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/email/
See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/tofu.txt


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Re: best FS for Linux and Windows

Wol's lists
On 15/12/17 20:41, David T-G wrote:

> Hi again, all --
>
> I'm running a dual-boot system (Win 7 and SuSE 42.3 at least for now)
> and I would like to have all user content in a data volume accessable
> to both.  With the demise of XP and the loss of Explore2FS (IIRC),
> I don't know of a good filesystem for use under both.  I certainly can
> use NTFS, since Linux can read & write pretty stably, but it of course
> has no concept of *NIX permissions (including execution).
>
> Got any ideas for something that works under both but also looks fairly
> Linux-ish?
>
I thought it was Explore2FS or a descendant I was running, and I'm
pretty certain it still works on my dual-boot SUSE/Win10 laptop.

Do a bit of googling, if Explore2FS itself is no longer maintained I'm
pretty certain it's got a successor (I'm not on said laptop right now so
I can't check).

Cheers,
Wol


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Re: best FS for Linux and Windows

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by David T-G
On 2017-12-15 21:41, David T-G wrote:

> Hi again, all --
>
> I'm running a dual-boot system (Win 7 and SuSE 42.3 at least for now)
> and I would like to have all user content in a data volume accessable
> to both.  With the demise of XP and the loss of Explore2FS (IIRC),
> I don't know of a good filesystem for use under both.  I certainly can
> use NTFS, since Linux can read & write pretty stably, but it of course
> has no concept of *NIX permissions (including execution).
>
> Got any ideas for something that works under both but also looks fairly
> Linux-ish?
I use NTFS for that purpose, I don't know any better.

/If/ you have a second machine, as server, you could set both samba and
nfs on the same share; then import it in Windows via samba, and on Linux
via NFS. Both would /see/ their own set of permissions and features,
although the samba ones are emulations, not really written to disk (at
least not if the underlying filesystem is Linux type).

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Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: best FS for Linux and Windows

David C. Rankin
In reply to this post by David T-G
On 12/15/2017 02:41 PM, David T-G wrote:
> I'm running a dual-boot system (Win 7 and SuSE 42.3 at least for now)
> and I would like to have all user content in a data volume accessable
> to both.  With the demise of XP and the loss of Explore2FS (IIRC),
> I don't know of a good filesystem for use under both.  I certainly can
> use NTFS, since Linux can read & write pretty stably, but it of course
> has no concept of *NIX permissions (including execution).
>
> Got any ideas for something that works under both but also looks fairly
> Linux-ish?


Or better yet, install SuSE to the entire drive, create a 50G (it can be
expandable as needed) VM for Win7 or Win10 and just virtualize windows. Unless
you do something where you need 100% of the hardware on windows (like some
wierd video editor that attempts to encode on the fly, while you browse the
internet while compiling php or the kernel on the side), even an old dual core
with 2G of RAM will do.

I have 4-cores and 8G, I usually give win 2G and 1 (or 2) cores (more cores
helps more than more RAM). 100% happy with it. I do still dual-boot as well
(just because the laptop came with Win10 on an SSD). I have SuSE w/Win7 VM on
a 1T platter and win10 on the ssd.

I certainly prefer the VM to dual boot.

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Re: best FS for Linux and Windows

jdd@dodin.org
Le 16/12/2017 à 01:07, David C. Rankin a écrit :

> I certainly prefer the VM to dual boot.
>
I had problems with usb device not seen by the VM, but didn't test
recently, may be it have been corrected since

thanks
jdd

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Re: best FS for Linux and Windows

nicholas cunliffe
use vbox, setup an ntfs shared partition for documents and you can
fluidly use the documents between vm and host. i dont see the issue
with ntfs permissions for docs etc. . there is no reason not to commit
highly on cores, i allocate 3 out of 4. windows works well on low ram
so 2 GB as mentioned is fine for light use. if you have problems with
usb/shared drives check guest additions are upto date. the only
problem i have ever had with peripherals is the guest recognising e.g.
tethering such that i surprisingly have internet access inside the
guest but not the host (solved by pausing the guest during attachment)

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Re: best FS for Linux and Windows

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by jdd@dodin.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Content-ID: <[hidden email]>


On Saturday, 2017-12-16 at 08:32 +0100, [hidden email] wrote:

> Le 16/12/2017 à 01:07, David C. Rankin a écrit :
>
>>  I certainly prefer the VM to dual boot.
>>
> I had problems with usb device not seen by the VM, but didn't test recently,
> may be it have been corrected since

Years ago, I had a TomTom device which I updated from a virtual Windows
machine. One day, after some updates (I don't remember to what, TomTom,
Windows, Linux) it stopped working (the TomTom software in Windows stoped
working with it). I had to use a real Windows instead.


More recently I had problems with some USB stick not been seen on the
guest:

https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2017-07/msg00096.html

"I don't know why vmware doesn't make visible to guests any of the sticks
I plug in :-("


- --
Cheers,
        Carlos E. R.
        (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
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Re: how to VM Windows (was "Re: [opensuse] best FS ...")

David T-G
In reply to this post by David C. Rankin
David, et al --

...and then David C. Rankin said...
%
% On 12/15/2017 02:41 PM, David T-G wrote:
% > I'm running a dual-boot system (Win 7 and SuSE 42.3 at least for now)
...
% >
% > Got any ideas for something that works under both but also looks fairly
% > Linux-ish?
%
% Or better yet, install SuSE to the entire drive, create a 50G (it can be
% expandable as needed) VM for Win7 or Win10 and just virtualize windows. Unless
[snip]

I've been thinking really hard about that, and I'd like to experiment
with the idea.  I don't have a cell modem (which, hey, might be supported
under Linux these days anyway) in this laptop, and I don't think that I'm
going to do anything else with special hardware, so maybe.  But I want to
take baby steps :-)  I actually figured I'd see what I can run under WINE
and see if there's any need for Windows any more at all.

So, in the interest of looking forward, can anyone give me pointers to
good primers for free virtualiztion?  The last time I looked was when
VMWare "personal" was free and I had no idea what this Xen thing was;
today I still don't have much of an idea but VMWare is, IIRC, no longer
an option.


Thanks again & HH

:-D
--
David T-G
See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/email/
See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/tofu.txt


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Re: how to VM Windows (was "Re: [opensuse] best FS ...")

jdd@dodin.org
Le 16/12/2017 à 16:41, David T-G a écrit :

> today I still don't have much of an idea but VMWare is, IIRC, no longer
> an option.
>


try virtualbox, the easier to install from yast. If you need real fake
dualboot, Xen may be better, but harder to configure

jdd


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Re: best FS for Linux and Windows

jdd@dodin.org
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
Le 16/12/2017 à 12:29, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

> "I don't know why vmware doesn't make visible to guests any of the sticks
> I plug in :-("
>

yes, and it may need guest additions to catch from oracle

jdd


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Re: best FS for Linux and Windows

jdd@dodin.org
In reply to this post by nicholas cunliffe
Le 16/12/2017 à 11:08, nicholas cunliffe a écrit :
> use vbox, setup an ntfs shared partition for documents and you can
> fluidly use the documents between vm and host. i dont see the issue
> with ntfs permissions for docs etc.

permissions are not the same (bad for backups), neither are file names,
so definitively not an option for archives

I never found really satisfactory solution. Best is to have two
computers with each a system and share by network

jdd


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Re: how to VM Windows (was "Re: [opensuse] best FS ...")

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by David T-G
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



On Saturday, 2017-12-16 at 10:41 -0500, David T-G wrote:

> So, in the interest of looking forward, can anyone give me pointers to
> good primers for free virtualiztion?  The last time I looked was when
> VMWare "personal" was free and I had no idea what this Xen thing was;
> today I still don't have much of an idea but VMWare is, IIRC, no longer
> an option.

Why not an option?
It is still free for personal use.

I am using vmware workstation. As with virtualbox, basically you create a
virtual machine, assigning disk space, procesor cores and memory. You boot
it and install any operating system as you would on a new hardware.

- --
Cheers,
        Carlos E. R.
        (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

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Re: how to VM Windows (was "Re: [opensuse] best FS ...")

gregfreemyer
In reply to this post by David T-G
On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 10:41 AM, David T-G <[hidden email]> wrote:

> David, et al --
>
> ...and then David C. Rankin said...
> %
> % On 12/15/2017 02:41 PM, David T-G wrote:
> % > I'm running a dual-boot system (Win 7 and SuSE 42.3 at least for now)
> ...
> % >
> % > Got any ideas for something that works under both but also looks fairly
> % > Linux-ish?
> %
> % Or better yet, install SuSE to the entire drive, create a 50G (it can be
> % expandable as needed) VM for Win7 or Win10 and just virtualize windows. Unless
> [snip]
>
> I've been thinking really hard about that, and I'd like to experiment
> with the idea.  I don't have a cell modem (which, hey, might be supported
> under Linux these days anyway) in this laptop, and I don't think that I'm
> going to do anything else with special hardware, so maybe.  But I want to
> take baby steps :-)  I actually figured I'd see what I can run under WINE
> and see if there's any need for Windows any more at all.
>
> So, in the interest of looking forward, can anyone give me pointers to
> good primers for free virtualiztion?  The last time I looked was when
> VMWare "personal" was free and I had no idea what this Xen thing was;
> today I still don't have much of an idea but VMWare is, IIRC, no longer
> an option.


I have good luck with Paragon's various filesystem drivers.  They have
one for ext2/3/4.

http://www.paragon-drivers.com/extfs-windows/

Free, if you can live with a 5 MB/sec throttle.

I don't recall if I have that one in use or not.  I know I have their
HFS+ driver in use (for Mac filesystems).  I paid for that one.

For data interchange, I use NTFS, but I understand your concern about
the execute bit, etc.

Greg

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Re: best FS for Linux and Windows

David C. Rankin
In reply to this post by jdd@dodin.org
On 12/16/2017 1:32 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Le 16/12/2017 à 01:07, David C. Rankin a écrit :
>
>> I certainly prefer the VM to dual boot.
>>
> I had problems with usb device not seen by the VM, but didn't test
> recently, may be it have been corrected since
>
> thanks
> jdd
>

USB works flawlessly here, just install the virtualbox rpm, e.g.

http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/5.2.2/VirtualBox-5.2-5.2.2_119230_openSUSE132-1.x86_64.rpm

and then the extension pack:

http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/5.2.2/Oracle_VM_VirtualBox_Extension_Pack-5.2.2.vbox-extpack

install with, e.g.

# VBoxManage extpack install --replace
Oracle_VM_VirtualBox_Extension_Pack-5.2.2.vbox-extpack

You can add an auto-accept option to accept the license with something
similar to:

--accept-license="$(sha256sum
/usr/share/licenses/virtualbox-ext-oracle/PUEL | head --bytes=64)"

If you haven't tried it lately due to your prior experience with USB,
it's worth another try. I have had no issues.

(of course if you are running your vm --headless as a guest on a server,
then it is a bit of a walk to plug the USB in...)

--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.

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Re: best FS for Linux and Windows

David Haller-4
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
Hello,

On Sat, 16 Dec 2017, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>More recently I had problems with some USB stick not been seen on the guest:
>
>https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2017-07/msg00096.html
>
>"I don't know why vmware doesn't make visible to guests any of the sticks
>I plug in :-("

ISTR, that you need usbfs mounted...

==== /etc/fstab ====
usbfs            /proc/bus/usb        usbfs      auto                  0 0
====

$ mount |grep usb
usbfs /proc/bus/usb usbfs rw,relatime 0 0

HTH,
-dnh

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Re: best FS for Linux and Windows

Wol's lists
In reply to this post by jdd@dodin.org
On 16/12/17 07:32, [hidden email] wrote:
> Le 16/12/2017 à 01:07, David C. Rankin a écrit :
>
>> I certainly prefer the VM to dual boot.
>>
> I had problems with usb device not seen by the VM, but didn't test
> recently, may be it have been corrected since
>
Don't know when it changed, but certainly in VirtualBox, passing USB
devices through USED to be a chargeable extra or something - when I
first started using it that option was disabled in the free version.

And I think you may have to go into the VirtualBox menubar and claim the
USB device for the guest. I don't think it does it automatically,
otherwise you could have the host and several guests all fighting over
it. (I'm not at that machine, and rarely use USB in my guests...)

Cheers,
Wol

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Re: how to VM Windows (was "Re: [opensuse] best FS ...")

Wol's lists
In reply to this post by David T-G
On 16/12/17 15:41, David T-G wrote:
> So, in the interest of looking forward, can anyone give me pointers to
> good primers for free virtualiztion?  The last time I looked was when
> VMWare "personal" was free and I had no idea what this Xen thing was;
> today I still don't have much of an idea but VMWare is, IIRC, no longer
> an option.

Xen, if I understand correctly, lets you run multiple OS's
simultaneously on the hardware, unlike VirtualBox which is itself a
program running on one system, that then lets another system run on it.

I use VirtualBox. XP worked fine, 7 was a disaster, and 10 is looking good.

Basically create a drive for Windows - you only need it to be big enough
for Windows and programs because your data will live elsewhere, but
remember Windows generally accretes a LOT of cruft ...

Now install Windows and guest additions :-) If you want Windows 10,
search on Amazon for an OEM key - I think I paid about £10 and I've had
no trouble whatsoever. Just make sure you read the instructions!

My ~ contains directories like "Pictures", "Documents", "Downloads",
etc. VirtualBox contains a mechanism (can't remember what it's called)
that makes a host folder show up in the guest (if you look at the
network in Explorer you'll see a host called VBOXSVR, mount that share
to eg H:).

You can then change your Windows "My Documents" to point at ~/Documents,
etc. In XP that was doable by editing the registry. Whether I messed
things up or not I don't know, but 7 was a complete mess-up from that
point of view - I never got it half-way usable.

Cheers,
Wol

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Re: how to VM Windows (was "Re: [opensuse] best FS ...")

ellanios82
In reply to this post by jdd@dodin.org
On 16/12/17 19:12, [hidden email] wrote:

> Le 16/12/2017 à 16:41, David T-G a écrit :
>
>> today I still don't have much of an idea but VMWare is, IIRC, no longer
>> an option.
>>
>
>
> try virtualbox, the easier to install from yast. If you need real fake
> dualboot, Xen may be better, but harder to configure
>
> jdd
>
>

  - believe Chairman Brown favors KVM


....

  regards



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Re: how to VM Windows (was "Re: [opensuse] best FS ...")

jdd@dodin.org
In reply to this post by Wol's lists
Le 16/12/2017 à 21:52, Wol's lists a écrit :

> etc. VirtualBox contains a mechanism (can't remember what it's called)
> that makes a host folder show up in the guest (if you look at the
> network in Explorer you'll see a host called VBOXSVR, mount that share
> to eg H:).

shared folders

>
> You can then change your Windows "My Documents" to point at ~/Documents,
> etc. In XP that was doable by editing the registry. Whether I messed
> things up or not I don't know, but 7 was a complete mess-up from that
> point of view - I never got it half-way usable.
>
never has any problem with W7 (other than usual w problems :-()

I think virtualbox is ok for unfrequent use, xen for nearly simultaneous
use, but it's not easy to install, I gave up myself

jdd


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Re: how to VM Windows (was "Re: [opensuse] best FS ...")

Wol's lists
On 16/12/17 21:07, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> I think virtualbox is ok for unfrequent use, xen for nearly simultaneous
> use, but it's not easy to install, I gave up myself

I've almost never had any problems with it, but it does use out-of-tree
kernel modules :-(

So it is explicitly NOT supported on Tumbleweed. I run it on gentoo, so
I know I have to re-install the kernel modules after every kernel upgrade.

It *should* work fine on Leap, although I believe there was a mess-up on
my mum's machine (running, iirc, 13.x at the time), which my brother had
to sort out.

Cheers,
Wol

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