XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

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XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

Stefan Seyfried
Hi,

(cc'ing Takashi, who does not yet know about my plans even though we are co-maintaining X11:xfce ;-)

Now that the XFCE stuff in Factory is somewhat reasonably current, I'd like to propose a change in the default setup.
I'd like to switch to the whiskermenu panel plugin (https://gottcode.org/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/) as a default start menu.

Existing setups will not be changed, just the default for new users.

The way this would be achieved would be a change in xfce4-branding-openSUSE package (actually
xfce4-panel-branding-openSUSE) to the panel config, and that package then would get a "Requires:
xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu".
This requires would lead to ~500kB wasted space for people who do not want to use whiskermenu, but that's it, it won't
do no harm otherwise.

If there are no objections, then I'd submit this soon (first to X11:xfce, then to Factory).

And that brings me to the second point: I'm trying to bring the XFCE Live CDs back.
OK, the ISO's are too big for CDs, but work well as DVD or hybridpersistent USB stick.

If you want to try them out *now*, grab them from
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/seife:/xfce/images/iso/

If there are no serious issues reported, I'd submit them to X11:xfce (and then announce the new location).

There are 4 images available:

XFCE-Leap-42.3-latest => XFCE from X11:xfce
XFCE-Leap-42.3-stable => XFCE as shipped in Leap 42.3
XFCE-Tumbleweed-latest => XFCE from X11:xfce
XFCE-Tumbleweed-stable => XFCE as shipped in Tumbleweed

The latter two should be pretty identical right now, but once I submit the above whiskermenu change to X11:xfce the
Tumbleweed-latest variant will get the newer look.

Opinions?

Have a lot of fun...

        seife


(Once I get around the kiwi kinks, I'll also try to resurrect the XFCE based openSUSE Rescue sytem image)
--
Stefan Seyfried

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over
 public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman
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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

Carlos E. R.-2
On 2017-10-09 17:41, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
> And that brings me to the second point: I'm trying to bring the XFCE Live CDs back.
> OK, the ISO's are too big for CDs, but work well as DVD or hybridpersistent USB stick.

Thanks! :-)

--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

Takashi Iwai
In reply to this post by Stefan Seyfried
On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:41:36 +0200,
Stefan Seyfried wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> (cc'ing Takashi, who does not yet know about my plans even though we are co-maintaining X11:xfce ;-)
>
> Now that the XFCE stuff in Factory is somewhat reasonably current, I'd like to propose a change in the default setup.
> I'd like to switch to the whiskermenu panel plugin (https://gottcode.org/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/) as a default start menu.
>
> Existing setups will not be changed, just the default for new users.
 
Sounds like a good idea.  I know that you worked on that stuff.

> The way this would be achieved would be a change in xfce4-branding-openSUSE package (actually
> xfce4-panel-branding-openSUSE) to the panel config, and that package then would get a "Requires:
> xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu".
> This requires would lead to ~500kB wasted space for people who do not want to use whiskermenu, but that's it, it won't
> do no harm otherwise.

Can't it be Recommends instead?  Then you can add a lock to zypper
and it keeps working without complaints.

Other than that, it looks promising, please go ahead.


> If there are no objections, then I'd submit this soon (first to X11:xfce, then to Factory).
>
> And that brings me to the second point: I'm trying to bring the XFCE Live CDs back.
> OK, the ISO's are too big for CDs, but work well as DVD or hybridpersistent USB stick.
>
> If you want to try them out *now*, grab them from
> http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/seife:/xfce/images/iso/
>
> If there are no serious issues reported, I'd submit them to X11:xfce (and then announce the new location).
>
> There are 4 images available:
>
> XFCE-Leap-42.3-latest => XFCE from X11:xfce
> XFCE-Leap-42.3-stable => XFCE as shipped in Leap 42.3
> XFCE-Tumbleweed-latest => XFCE from X11:xfce
> XFCE-Tumbleweed-stable => XFCE as shipped in Tumbleweed
>
> The latter two should be pretty identical right now, but once I submit the above whiskermenu change to X11:xfce the
> Tumbleweed-latest variant will get the newer look.
>
> Opinions?

Looks interesting, although I'm a sort of skeptical whether there will
be so many users of live image nowadays...   I don't mean objecting it
at all, so I'm happy to see that stuff in OBS.


BTW, speaking of XFCE: do we have any openQA tasks for XFCE?


thanks,

Takashi
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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

H.Merijn Brand
On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:50:50 +0200, Takashi Iwai <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:41:36 +0200,
> Stefan Seyfried wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > (cc'ing Takashi, who does not yet know about my plans even though we are co-maintaining X11:xfce ;-)
> >
> > Now that the XFCE stuff in Factory is somewhat reasonably current, I'd like to propose a change in the default setup.
> > I'd like to switch to the whiskermenu panel plugin (https://gottcode.org/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/) as a default start menu.
> >
> > Existing setups will not be changed, just the default for new users.  
>  
> Sounds like a good idea.  I know that you worked on that stuff.
>
> > The way this would be achieved would be a change in xfce4-branding-openSUSE package (actually
> > xfce4-panel-branding-openSUSE) to the panel config, and that package then would get a "Requires:
> > xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu".
> > This requires would lead to ~500kB wasted space for people who do not want to use whiskermenu, but that's it, it won't
> > do no harm otherwise.  
Actually, it is more:
--8<---
# zypper in -l in xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu
Loading repository data...
Reading installed packages...
Resolving package dependencies...

The following 11 NEW packages are going to be installed:
  libgarcon-1-0 libgarcon-branding-openSUSE libgarcon-data libgarcon-lang libxfce4panel-2_0-4 libxfce4ui-tools openSUSE-xfce-icon-theme xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu
  xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu-lang xfce4-settings-branding-openSUSE xfce4-splash-branding-openSUSE

The following 3 recommended packages were automatically selected:
  libgarcon-data libgarcon-lang xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu-lang

11 new packages to install.
Overall download size: 873.0 KiB. Already cached: 0 B. After the operation, additional 1.8 MiB will be used.
-->8---

which will be added to my already loaded system
--8<---
# rpm -qa | wc -l
8082
# zypper se  | grep ^i | wc -l
8280
-->8---

Other than that, I see no objections

> Can't it be Recommends instead?  Then you can add a lock to zypper
> and it keeps working without complaints.
>
> Other than that, it looks promising, please go ahead.
>
>
> > If there are no objections, then I'd submit this soon (first to X11:xfce, then to Factory).
> >
> > And that brings me to the second point: I'm trying to bring the XFCE Live CDs back.
> > OK, the ISO's are too big for CDs, but work well as DVD or hybridpersistent USB stick.
> >
> > If you want to try them out *now*, grab them from
> > http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/seife:/xfce/images/iso/
> >
> > If there are no serious issues reported, I'd submit them to X11:xfce (and then announce the new location).
> >
> > There are 4 images available:
> >
> > XFCE-Leap-42.3-latest => XFCE from X11:xfce
> > XFCE-Leap-42.3-stable => XFCE as shipped in Leap 42.3
> > XFCE-Tumbleweed-latest => XFCE from X11:xfce
> > XFCE-Tumbleweed-stable => XFCE as shipped in Tumbleweed
> >
> > The latter two should be pretty identical right now, but once I submit the above whiskermenu change to X11:xfce the
> > Tumbleweed-latest variant will get the newer look.
> >
> > Opinions?  
>
> Looks interesting, although I'm a sort of skeptical whether there will
> be so many users of live image nowadays...   I don't mean objecting it
> at all, so I'm happy to see that stuff in OBS.
>
>
> BTW, speaking of XFCE: do we have any openQA tasks for XFCE?
>
>
> thanks,
>
> Takashi

--
H.Merijn Brand  http://tux.nl   Perl Monger  http://amsterdam.pm.org/
using perl5.00307 .. 5.27   porting perl5 on HP-UX, AIX, and openSUSE
http://mirrors.develooper.com/hpux/        http://www.test-smoke.org/
http://qa.perl.org   http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/

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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

Takashi Iwai
In reply to this post by Takashi Iwai
On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:50:50 +0200,
Takashi Iwai wrote:

>
> On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:41:36 +0200,
> Stefan Seyfried wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > (cc'ing Takashi, who does not yet know about my plans even though we are co-maintaining X11:xfce ;-)
> >
> > Now that the XFCE stuff in Factory is somewhat reasonably current, I'd like to propose a change in the default setup.
> > I'd like to switch to the whiskermenu panel plugin (https://gottcode.org/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/) as a default start menu.
> >
> > Existing setups will not be changed, just the default for new users.
>  
> Sounds like a good idea.  I know that you worked on that stuff.
>
> > The way this would be achieved would be a change in xfce4-branding-openSUSE package (actually
> > xfce4-panel-branding-openSUSE) to the panel config, and that package then would get a "Requires:
> > xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu".
> > This requires would lead to ~500kB wasted space for people who do not want to use whiskermenu, but that's it, it won't
> > do no harm otherwise.
>
> Can't it be Recommends instead?  Then you can add a lock to zypper
> and it keeps working without complaints.

Thinking of this again, if we switch the initial default to
whiskermenu, it should be Requires, unless the default setup could
detect the installation and adjust it smartly.


Takashi
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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

gregfreemyer
In reply to this post by Takashi Iwai
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Takashi Iwai <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:41:36 +0200,
> Stefan Seyfried wrote:
>
> Looks interesting, although I'm a sort of skeptical whether there will
> be so many users of live image nowadays...   I don't mean objecting it
> at all, so I'm happy to see that stuff in OBS.

I maintain a live image of my own based on Gnome.

If the XFCE image is available in OBS to branch and supplement with my
preferred selection of packages (from OBS), I for one would likely
switch to it as a base.

I keep my live image on DVD and thumb.

I have 2 variants: UEFI and non-UEFI

I don't currently maintain a 32-bit variant, but if Tumbleweed is
going to be supported, I'd have that option as well.

Thanks
Greg
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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Stefan Seyfried
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 17:41:36 +0200
Stefan Seyfried <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Now that the XFCE stuff in Factory is somewhat reasonably current,
> I'd like to propose a change in the default setup. I'd like to switch
> to the whiskermenu panel plugin
> (https://gottcode.org/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/) as a default start
> menu.

As a happy user of XFCE on Tumbeweed, complete with Whisker-menu, I
support this idea. Sounds like a good plan.

(I have also bound my Super key to the Whisker menu, which effectively
gives GNOME3/Unity-like app searching as well.)

Also, prompted by a chat with the guys on the Xfce stand at the
LinuxDays event in Prague this weekend, I'd like to ask if it would
be possible to get a current version of DockbarX:

https://github.com/M7S/dockbarx

... and its Xfce4 plugin:

https://github.com/TiZ-EX1/xfce4-dockbarx-plugin

included in the OpenSUSE repos as well.

(Not that it works as well as I would like with a vertical deskbar, but
still...)

--
Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o.
Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia
Email: [hidden email] - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084


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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

Stefan Seyfried
In reply to this post by Takashi Iwai
Hi Takashi,

Am 09.10.2017 um 17:50 schrieb Takashi Iwai:

> On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:41:36 +0200,
> Stefan Seyfried wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> (cc'ing Takashi, who does not yet know about my plans even though we are co-maintaining X11:xfce ;-)
>>
>> Now that the XFCE stuff in Factory is somewhat reasonably current, I'd like to propose a change in the default setup.
>> I'd like to switch to the whiskermenu panel plugin (https://gottcode.org/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/) as a default start menu.
>>
>> Existing setups will not be changed, just the default for new users.
>  
> Sounds like a good idea.  I know that you worked on that stuff.
>
>> The way this would be achieved would be a change in xfce4-branding-openSUSE package (actually
>> xfce4-panel-branding-openSUSE) to the panel config, and that package then would get a "Requires:
>> xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu".
>> This requires would lead to ~500kB wasted space for people who do not want to use whiskermenu, but that's it, it won't
>> do no harm otherwise.
>
> Can't it be Recommends instead?  Then you can add a lock to zypper
> and it keeps working without complaints.

No, not really. The whiskermenu is listed in
/etc/xdg/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-panel.xml as
...
    <property name="plugin-1" type="string" value="whiskermenu"/>

...and if it is not present, you'll get no menu at all, because I
removed the old menu.

We could do crazy hacks with %post-install scripts autogenerating the
xfce4-panel.xml, but I'd rather not go for that. It's really just the
whiskermenu package being ~350kb wasted space.

If someone really wants to avoid that, I'd take submit requests for an
alternate branding package ;-)
(Or let's just tell them to use *-branding-upstream. This branding stuff
is mostly about the defaults users get, after you start configuring the
desktop, your own configurations are overriding most of it anyway)

And then "Recommends:" won't work because everyone is using
"--no-recommends" anyway :-P

> Other than that, it looks promising, please go ahead.
>> XFCE-Leap-42.3-latest => XFCE from X11:xfce
>> XFCE-Leap-42.3-stable => XFCE as shipped in Leap 42.3
>> XFCE-Tumbleweed-latest => XFCE from X11:xfce
>> XFCE-Tumbleweed-stable => XFCE as shipped in Tumbleweed
>>
>> The latter two should be pretty identical right now, but once I submit the above whiskermenu change to X11:xfce the
>> Tumbleweed-latest variant will get the newer look.
>>
>> Opinions?
>
> Looks interesting, although I'm a sort of skeptical whether there will
> be so many users of live image nowadays...   I don't mean objecting it
> at all, so I'm happy to see that stuff in OBS.

I'm also not sure how many users they'll get. But they are handy to e.g.
check branding changes (On my machines, everything is heavily customized
and so it's sometimes really interesting to check how it looks on an
"untouched" installation ;-)

The trigger for creating them was actually the Idea of resurrecting the
rescue image, which I deem useful. The "desktop test" images were first
steps on the way ;)

> BTW, speaking of XFCE: do we have any openQA tasks for XFCE?

I have no idea, I know of none ;-)
Fortunately, I'm running the X11:xfce code (or even worse:
home:seife:xfce) all the time upon Tumbleweed, so I think I'd catch
serious failures soon.
--
Stefan Seyfried

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over
 public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman
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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

Stefan Seyfried
In reply to this post by gregfreemyer
Hi Greg,

Am 09.10.2017 um 18:02 schrieb Greg Freemyer:

> If the XFCE image is available in OBS to branch and supplement with my
> preferred selection of packages (from OBS), I for one would likely
> switch to it as a base.
I'm actually aiming at recreating the old "rescue image", which will
have a very basic XFCE setup, a web browser (for web-searching
solutions) and all the filesystems, LVM, gparted, whatever tools.
I'll try to keep it as small as possible.

> I keep my live image on DVD and thumb.

I build hybridpersistent isos, which you can put on a DVD or onto an USB
stick.

> I have 2 variants: UEFI and non-UEFI

Actually the UEFI hybrid iso boots just fine on non-EFI systems. The
only problem I encountered is, that the UEFI build does not work on i586...

> I don't currently maintain a 32-bit variant, but if Tumbleweed is
> going to be supported, I'd have that option as well.

... I'd need to find out if I can somehow conditionalize the
firmware=uefi on the host arch, or create two distinct packages which
differ by only this switch, which would be ugly. Then I'm all for
supporting 32bit.

Maybe once I'm ready with the rescue image (which might take some time),
we can just throw in your forensic tools? So you don't actually need to
maintain your own images?

Best regards,

        Stefan
--
Stefan Seyfried

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over
 public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman
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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Takashi Iwai
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 2017-10-09 17:50, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:41:36 +0200, Stefan Seyfried wrote:


>> Opinions?
>
> Looks interesting, although I'm a sort of skeptical whether there
> will be so many users of live image nowadays...   I don't mean
> objecting it at all, so I'm happy to see that stuff in OBS.

Two use cases I can think of, fast:

 - Test of a new distribution by new users, without installing.
 - Use as a rescue system in case the installed one fails to run.
 - Working on a computer that is not yours.

Well, that was three ;-)

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

  (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))
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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

Stefan Seyfried
In reply to this post by H.Merijn Brand
Hi,

Am 09.10.2017 um 17:59 schrieb H.Merijn Brand:
> On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:50:50 +0200, Takashi Iwai <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:41:36 +0200,
>> Stefan Seyfried wrote:

>>> This requires would lead to ~500kB wasted space for people who do not want to use whiskermenu, but that's it, it won't
>>> do no harm otherwise.  
>
> Actually, it is more:
> --8<---
> # zypper in -l in xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu
> Loading repository data...
> Reading installed packages...
> Resolving package dependencies...
>
> The following 11 NEW packages are going to be installed:
>   libgarcon-1-0 libgarcon-branding-openSUSE libgarcon-data libgarcon-lang libxfce4panel-2_0-4 libxfce4ui-tools openSUSE-xfce-icon-theme xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu
>   xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu-lang xfce4-settings-branding-openSUSE xfce4-splash-branding-openSUSE

Hm, is this a xfce system? On Tumbleweed or on Leap?
Because:
susi:~ # rpm -e --test libgarcon-1-0
error: Failed dependencies:
  libgarcon-1.so.0()(64bit) is needed by (installed) xfce4-appfinder-4.12.0-1.8.x86_64
  libgarcon-1.so.0()(64bit) is needed by (installed) xfce4-settings-4.12.1-73.10.x86_64
  libgarcon-1.so.0()(64bit) is needed by (installed) xfce4-panel-4.12.1-104.14.x86_64
  libgarcon-1.so.0()(64bit) is needed by (installed) libxfdashboard0-0.7.4-2.4.x86_64
  libgarcon-1.so.0()(64bit) is needed by (installed) xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu-2.1.3-50.1.x86_64
  libgarcon-1.so.0()(64bit) is needed by (installed) xfdesktop-4.12.4-79.6.x86_64
  libgarcon-gtk2-1.so.0()(64bit) is needed by (installed) xfce4-panel-4.12.1-104.14.x86_64

so at least with the current stuff accepted to TW with 20171007 you basically
cannot go without libgarcon-1-0 anyway.
libxfce4panel-2_0-4 is now required by xfce4-panel, so this is also nothing
you can avoid by not requiring whiskermenu.

> The following 3 recommended packages were automatically selected:
>   libgarcon-data libgarcon-lang xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu-lang
>
> 11 new packages to install.
> Overall download size: 873.0 KiB. Already cached: 0 B. After the operation, additional 1.8 MiB will be used.
> -->8---
>
> which will be added to my already loaded system
> --8<---
> # rpm -qa | wc -l
> 8082
> # zypper se  | grep ^i | wc -l
> 8280
> -->8---

I tried it on the xfce-tumbleweed-latest Live CD and it was only 2 packages
(whiskermenu and -lang), as the rest was already installed.

Best regards,

        Stefan
--
Stefan Seyfried

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over
 public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman
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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

Stefan Seyfried
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
Am 09.10.2017 um 18:08 schrieb Liam Proven:

> Also, prompted by a chat with the guys on the Xfce stand at the
> LinuxDays event in Prague this weekend, I'd like to ask if it would
> be possible to get a current version of DockbarX:
>
> https://github.com/M7S/dockbarx
>
> ... and its Xfce4 plugin:
>
> https://github.com/TiZ-EX1/xfce4-dockbarx-plugin
>
> included in the OpenSUSE repos as well.

Well, you can package it and submit it to the devel projects.

*I* am probably not going to touch either python nor vala with a 10ft
pole unless forced to ;-)
--
Stefan Seyfried

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over
 public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman
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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

gregfreemyer
In reply to this post by Stefan Seyfried
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 2:01 PM, Stefan Seyfried
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
> Am 09.10.2017 um 18:02 schrieb Greg Freemyer:
>
>> If the XFCE image is available in OBS to branch and supplement with my
>> preferred selection of packages (from OBS), I for one would likely
>> switch to it as a base.
> I'm actually aiming at recreating the old "rescue image", which will
> have a very basic XFCE setup, a web browser (for web-searching
> solutions) and all the filesystems, LVM, gparted, whatever tools.
> I'll try to keep it as small as possible.
>
>> I keep my live image on DVD and thumb.
>
> I build hybridpersistent isos, which you can put on a DVD or onto an USB
> stick.

Sounds good

>> I have 2 variants: UEFI and non-UEFI
>
> Actually the UEFI hybrid iso boots just fine on non-EFI systems. The
> only problem I encountered is, that the UEFI build does not work on i586...

Interesting.  I don't think that is true with the appliances I
currently get out of Suse Studio.

ie. I know sometimes a PC will boot from either of my media, but I'm
pretty sure I've had occasions where only the non-UEFI would boot.

>> I don't currently maintain a 32-bit variant, but if Tumbleweed is
>> going to be supported, I'd have that option as well.
>
> ... I'd need to find out if I can somehow conditionalize the
> firmware=uefi on the host arch, or create two distinct packages which
> differ by only this switch, which would be ugly. Then I'm all for
> supporting 32bit.

Not hugely important for me.  I do have older 13.1 32-bit boot media.
In theory I can just use it if I need to work with a 32-bit PC.

> Maybe once I'm ready with the rescue image (which might take some time),
> we can just throw in your forensic tools? So you don't actually need to
> maintain your own images?

That would be great if reasonable.

The main things I use are CLI, not GUI. I currently ensure these are
available (maybe not all are critical?):

ntfs-3g
ntfsprogs
hdparm
fdisk
smartmontools
dmidecode
sysstat
dd_rescue
gnu_ddrescue
dc3dd
libewf-tools
iputils

I don't know how many MB that would be additional to what is on the rescue disk.

fuse-exfat would also be nice.  I don't currently have it on mine
because I'm not totally clear on the license issues.

Thanks
Greg

>
> Best regards,
>
>         Stefan
> --
> Stefan Seyfried
>
> "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over
>  public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman
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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

Fabian Vogt
In reply to this post by Stefan Seyfried
Hi,

Am Montag, 9. Oktober 2017, 20:01:36 CEST schrieb Stefan Seyfried:

> Hi Greg,
>
> Am 09.10.2017 um 18:02 schrieb Greg Freemyer:
>
> > If the XFCE image is available in OBS to branch and supplement with my
> > preferred selection of packages (from OBS), I for one would likely
> > switch to it as a base.
> I'm actually aiming at recreating the old "rescue image", which will
> have a very basic XFCE setup, a web browser (for web-searching
> solutions) and all the filesystems, LVM, gparted, whatever tools.
> I'll try to keep it as small as possible.

Recreating? It's still alive and well:
https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/501317#step/xfce4_terminal/1

It lives in openSUSE:Factory:Live/livecd-openSUSE (livecd-x11) and seems
to fulfill all of the mentioned criteria.

Cheers,
Fabian

>
> > I keep my live image on DVD and thumb.
>
> I build hybridpersistent isos, which you can put on a DVD or onto an USB
> stick.
>
> > I have 2 variants: UEFI and non-UEFI
>
> Actually the UEFI hybrid iso boots just fine on non-EFI systems. The
> only problem I encountered is, that the UEFI build does not work on i586...
>
> > I don't currently maintain a 32-bit variant, but if Tumbleweed is
> > going to be supported, I'd have that option as well.
>
> ... I'd need to find out if I can somehow conditionalize the
> firmware=uefi on the host arch, or create two distinct packages which
> differ by only this switch, which would be ugly. Then I'm all for
> supporting 32bit.
>
> Maybe once I'm ready with the rescue image (which might take some time),
> we can just throw in your forensic tools? So you don't actually need to
> maintain your own images?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Stefan
>


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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

Stefan Seyfried
Hi Fabian,

Am 09.10.2017 um 20:44 schrieb Fabian Vogt:

> Recreating? It's still alive and well:
> https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/501317#step/xfce4_terminal/1
>
> It lives in openSUSE:Factory:Live/livecd-openSUSE (livecd-x11) and seems
> to fulfill all of the mentioned criteria.

even better!

Some time ago (13.1? 13.2?) The rescue cd got broken and noone fixed it.
I had it on my todo list, but if it has been silently repaired, I'm
happy, there's enough other work left to do ;-)
--
Stefan Seyfried

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over
 public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman
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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Fabian Vogt
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 2017-10-09 20:44, Fabian Vogt wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Am Montag, 9. Oktober 2017, 20:01:36 CEST schrieb Stefan Seyfried:
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>> Am 09.10.2017 um 18:02 schrieb Greg Freemyer:
>>
>>> If the XFCE image is available in OBS to branch and supplement
>>> with my preferred selection of packages (from OBS), I for one
>>> would likely switch to it as a base.
>> I'm actually aiming at recreating the old "rescue image", which
>> will have a very basic XFCE setup, a web browser (for
>> web-searching solutions) and all the filesystems, LVM, gparted,
>> whatever tools. I'll try to keep it as small as possible.
>
> Recreating? It's still alive and well:
> https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/501317#step/xfce4_terminal/1
>
> It lives in openSUSE:Factory:Live/livecd-openSUSE (livecd-x11) and
> seems to fulfill all of the mentioned criteria.

URL, please? I don't see where I can download the rescue live iso.

I'm looking at http://download.opensuse.org/ and I don't see it.

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

  (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))
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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

Fabian Vogt
Hi,

Am Dienstag, 10. Oktober 2017, 00:01:17 CEST schrieb Carlos E. R.:

> On 2017-10-09 20:44, Fabian Vogt wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Am Montag, 9. Oktober 2017, 20:01:36 CEST schrieb Stefan Seyfried:
> >> Hi Greg,
> >>
> >> Am 09.10.2017 um 18:02 schrieb Greg Freemyer:
> >>
> >>> If the XFCE image is available in OBS to branch and supplement
> >>> with my preferred selection of packages (from OBS), I for one
> >>> would likely switch to it as a base.
> >> I'm actually aiming at recreating the old "rescue image", which
> >> will have a very basic XFCE setup, a web browser (for
> >> web-searching solutions) and all the filesystems, LVM, gparted,
> >> whatever tools. I'll try to keep it as small as possible.
> >
> > Recreating? It's still alive and well:
> > https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/501317#step/xfce4_terminal/1
> >
> > It lives in openSUSE:Factory:Live/livecd-openSUSE (livecd-x11) and
> > seems to fulfill all of the mentioned criteria.
>
> URL, please? I don't see where I can download the rescue live iso.
>
> I'm looking at http://download.opensuse.org/ and I don't see it.

It's at the usual location:
http://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/iso/?P=*Rescue*.iso

It's also linked on the s.o.o page (currently as "unsupported",
which doesn't make much sense and will be fixed with the new layout):
https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/tumbleweed/unsupported

Cheers,
Fabian

>
> --
> Cheers / Saludos,
>
> Carlos E. R.
>
>   (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))
>


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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

Vojtěch Zeisek-2
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
Thank You, Stefan, for doing that!

Dne pondělí 9. října 2017 20:09:46 CEST, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):

> On 2017-10-09 17:50, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:41:36 +0200, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
> >> Opinions?
> >
> > Looks interesting, although I'm a sort of skeptical whether there
> > will be so many users of live image nowadays...   I don't mean
> > objecting it at all, so I'm happy to see that stuff in OBS.
>
> Two use cases I can think of, fast:
>
>  - Test of a new distribution by new users, without installing.
>  - Use as a rescue system in case the installed one fails to run.
Yes! Very useful! BTW, will it be possible to make persistent stick? I use
Lubuntu for such tasks, but it has limit to 4 GB of user data (everything is
in single file on FAT32).

>  - Working on a computer that is not yours.

Yep, it goes together with the previous point.

--
Vojtěch Zeisek

Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu
Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux

https://www.opensuse.org/
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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

Carlos E. R.-2
On 2017-10-10 09:05, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:

> Thank You, Stefan, for doing that!
>
> Dne pondělí 9. října 2017 20:09:46 CEST, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
>> On 2017-10-09 17:50, Takashi Iwai wrote:
>>> On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:41:36 +0200, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
>>>> Opinions?
>>>
>>> Looks interesting, although I'm a sort of skeptical whether there
>>> will be so many users of live image nowadays...   I don't mean
>>> objecting it at all, so I'm happy to see that stuff in OBS.
>>
>> Two use cases I can think of, fast:
>>
>>  - Test of a new distribution by new users, without installing.
>>  - Use as a rescue system in case the installed one fails to run.
>
> Yes! Very useful! BTW, will it be possible to make persistent stick? I use
> Lubuntu for such tasks, but it has limit to 4 GB of user data (everything is
> in single file on FAT32).
Stefan said it uses "hybridpersistent USB stick", so the answer is yes.
I understand it can write to the end of the stick, no size limit, but I
never used even one GB. I can't vouch for limit or not.

--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: XFCE upcoming / planned stuff

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Stefan Seyfried
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 20:20:04 +0200
Stefan Seyfried <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Well, you can package it and submit it to the devel projects.

Ah. That falls outside my current level of technical skill.

If anyone in the Prague office would like to volunteer to come and show
me how to do that, I would be delighted to learn.

> *I* am probably not going to touch either python nor vala with a 10ft
> pole unless forced to ;-)

I did not know that either technology was involved, TBH. But it could
be worse... it could be Perl or PHP...

--
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Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia
Email: [hidden email] - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084


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