Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?

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Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?

LinuxIsOne-2
Hi,

I was just thinking that though openSUSE is more smooth and works
better and has more clean architecture than Ubuntu but still why
Ubuntu is more popular?

Thanks.
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Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?

Bogdan Cristea
On Tuesday 06 December 2011 16:37:23 LinuxIsOne wrote:
> I was just thinking that though openSUSE is more smooth and works
> better and has more clean architecture than Ubuntu but still why
> Ubuntu is more popular?

There are a lot of reviews and comparisons on the Internet, try to search
first.

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Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?

Matt Hayes
In reply to this post by LinuxIsOne-2
On 12/6/2011 10:37 AM, LinuxIsOne wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I was just thinking that though openSUSE is more smooth and works
> better and has more clean architecture than Ubuntu but still why
> Ubuntu is more popular?
>
> Thanks.


The only answer I have for that is:  Who cares?

The popularity of a distribution does not make it 'better' than anything
else.  Honestly, people should use what they are comfortable with and
works in their situation.  For me, openSUSE fits that bill.  In other
situations, another distribution might fit.

Use what works, not what is popular.

-Matt
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Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?

Adam Tauno Williams
On Tue, 2011-12-06 at 10:45 -0500, Matt Hayes wrote:
> On 12/6/2011 10:37 AM, LinuxIsOne wrote:
> > I was just thinking that though openSUSE is more smooth and works
> > better and has more clean architecture than Ubuntu but still why
> > Ubuntu is more popular?
> The only answer I have for that is:  Who cares?

+1 So long as it has a sustainable user-base, why bother asking.  These
questions just result in long pointless threads with lots of arrogant
conjecture.

Who knows why anything is popular or catches the 'meme' of the moment?
That is just like asking why some entirely proprietary IT companies
[Apple, Google, etc...] are treated warmly while other equally
proprietary companies [Microsoft] are vilified?  It is just the fevers
of the mob;  don't spend too much time thinking about it.   Time is
better spent writing code!


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Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?

Haro de Grauw
In reply to this post by Matt Hayes

>> I was just thinking that though openSUSE is more smooth and works
>> better and has more clean architecture than Ubuntu but still why
>> Ubuntu is more popular?
> The only answer I have for that is:  Who cares?
>
> The popularity of a distribution does not make it 'better' than
> anything else.  Honestly, people should use what they are comfortable
> with and works in their situation.  For me, openSUSE fits that bill.  
> In other situations, another distribution might fit.
>
> Use what works, not what is popular.
>

There is always some "inertia", meaning: people don't like changing
distribution every week. There was a lot of initial enthusiasm for
Ubuntu in that it was particularly "friendly" for Linux newcomers,
especially compared to Debian (which Ubuntu forked from). However, other
distributions have caught up and perhaps done better than Ubuntu by now
in this regard; openSUSE certainly also makes a point of being
accessible to former Windows users.

Ubuntu certainly brought a lot of Windows users into the Linux world,
and remains popular as a "first distribution" for those who have never
used Linux before. And as long as a distribution doesn't make any great
blunders, or fall drastically behind on others, there is a large number
of users that will simply stick with it, because they are familiar with it.

After all, isn't that the only sensible explanation for a couple billion
people still desperately clinging on to Microsoft Windows? :-D

H.




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Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?

Cristian Rodríguez-2
In reply to this post by LinuxIsOne-2
On 06/12/11 12:37, LinuxIsOne wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I was just thinking that though openSUSE is more smooth and works
> better and has more clean architecture than Ubuntu but still why
> Ubuntu is more popular?
>
> Thanks.

The answer to that question is pretty simple, canonical (the company
behind ubuntu) has invested more money in advertising and marketing than
in development or improving linux, hence has reached out more to the masses.

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Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?

LinuxIsOne-2
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Cristian Rodríguez
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> The answer to that question is pretty simple, canonical (the company behind
> ubuntu) has invested more money in advertising and marketing than in
> development or improving linux, hence has reached out more to the masses.

Ah I see.
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Clinging to Microsoft (was Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?)

Duaine Hechler
In reply to this post by Haro de Grauw
On 12/06/2011 09:55 AM, Haro de Grauw wrote:
> <snip>
>
> After all, isn't that the only sensible explanation for a couple billion people still desperately clinging on to
> Microsoft Windows? :-D
>
> H.
First, a smidgin of background. I come from 24+ years in the IT field. Where IBM had the perfect VM (Virtual Machine)
environment where VM was the initial OS that the mainframe booted from. Within it, you could run, literally, any OS that
ran the OS/360 instruction set. They had VM down to a science, so much so, I witnessed running VM - 6 - yes, 6 - levels
deep - without a hitch. Although by the 6th level it was getting pretty slow. _Remember, all this was before, when the
mainframe was slower than today's PC's and the mainframes had an average of 512M or less of real memory._

Linux still has not won over "the windows gamers" and, at this point, any other software that "requires" windows.

Yes, I know there is WINE and others, BUT that is still running within an emulator (which still is not "perfected").

And, yes, there is always "dual boot" BUT that just added an extra step in the problem.

As for me, yes, at home, I run Linux (openSUSE) exclusively. However, I still require windows, because my piano tuning
software will - not - run in "virtual" windows. The developer says that Linux does not have some sort of hardware "call"
for what is needed by the software.

Along with, I only know about the US, the Tax Software. So why would many people add to their troubles by switching to
Linux - then - having to add the "virtual" world - then - installing the Tax software.

My take on the solution - is windows will never go away until all "windows" software can run "natively" within Linux.

That being said, then, more than likely, Linux will end up being susceptible to all the "nasties" of Windows.

_Or, the emulation software becomes the primary OS (just like IBM's) and everything else runs within it._

Duaine

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Tuning, Servicing&  Rebuilding
Reed Organ Society Member
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(314) 838-5587
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Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?

John Andersen-2
In reply to this post by Cristian Rodríguez-2
On 12/6/2011 7:59 AM, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

> On 06/12/11 12:37, LinuxIsOne wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I was just thinking that though openSUSE is more smooth and works
>> better and has more clean architecture than Ubuntu but still why
>> Ubuntu is more popular?
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> The answer to that question is pretty simple, canonical (the company behind ubuntu) has invested more money in advertising and marketing
> than in development or improving linux, hence has reached out more to the masses.
>

True story:
Some years ago, I managed a small computer manufacturer (white box, if you will).
One day I get a call from a very Euro sounding young woman, seemingly dutch, asking for our street address.
I gave it, and asked why she needed it, and she said "we are sending you a package".

Three weeks later, a badly battered surface mail box arrived from Europe, full of
Ubuntu CD roms, for both the workstation and server editions, with a not saying
please offer these to your customers free of charge.

So we did.  At first they didn't move.  The highschool kids started showing up
asking for them. (This was in the days when many in those parts had dial up).

So there is some truth to this outreach and advertising idea.


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Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?

Roger Luedecke
In reply to this post by LinuxIsOne-2
On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 10:37:23 AM LinuxIsOne wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I was just thinking that though openSUSE is more smooth and works
> better and has more clean architecture than Ubuntu but still why
> Ubuntu is more popular?
>
> Thanks.
I think considering the scope of this particular list, this sort of
conversation is more suitable for the offtopic list.
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Ind. Repairs and Consulting
**Looking for a C++ etc. mentor***
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Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?

John Andersen-2
On 12/6/2011 2:03 PM, Roger Luedecke wrote:

> On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 10:37:23 AM LinuxIsOne wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I was just thinking that though openSUSE is more smooth and works
>> better and has more clean architecture than Ubuntu but still why
>> Ubuntu is more popular?
>>
>> Thanks.
> I think considering the scope of this particular list, this sort of
> conversation is more suitable for the offtopic list.

Really?
Its far more on-topic than traffic signs.



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Re: Clinging to Microsoft (was Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?)

Per Jessen-2
In reply to this post by Duaine Hechler
Duaine Hechler wrote:

> My take on the solution - is windows will never go away until all
> "windows" software can run "natively" within Linux.

For most business users, Windows could go away tomorrow.  I've been
running my business entirely on Linux for more than five years.

> That being said, then, more than likely, Linux will end up being
> susceptible to all the "nasties" of Windows.
>
> _Or, the emulation software becomes the primary OS (just like IBM's)

There are far more MVS-only shops than there ever were VM-installations.



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Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?

zGreenfelder
In reply to this post by John Andersen-2
>> I think considering the scope of this particular list, this sort of
>> conversation is more suitable for the offtopic list.
>
> Really?
> Its far more on-topic than traffic signs.
>
+1
more if I could.

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Re: Clinging to Microsoft (was Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?)

Duaine Hechler
In reply to this post by Per Jessen-2
On 12/06/2011 04:45 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
> Duaine Hechler wrote:
>
>> My take on the solution - is windows will never go away until all
>> "windows" software can run "natively" within Linux.
> For most business users, Windows could go away tomorrow.  I've been
> running my business entirely on Linux for more than five years.

Then why don't they ??
>> That being said, then, more than likely, Linux will end up being
>> susceptible to all the "nasties" of Windows.
>>
>> _Or, the emulation software becomes the primary OS (just like IBM's)
> There are far more MVS-only shops than there ever were VM-installations.
True - however, VM was used to support multiple VSE machines (Cheaper than moving and supporting MVS). One shop I was
in, we had 5 copies of VSE running which included one for production, one for test and 3 for development - for different
versions of VSE, CICS and Assembler vs COBOL versions of the same production software.

Also, another strange fact, that VM was initially written to run VSE - as developers were writing MVS (and its predecessors)

Plus, that was before IBM came up with LPARS (Logical Partitions) in the hardware.

Duaine

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Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ
Tuning, Servicing&  Rebuilding
Reed Organ Society Member
Florissant, MO 63034
(314) 838-5587
[hidden email]
www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com
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Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?

LinuxIsOne-2
In reply to this post by John Andersen-2
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 5:23 PM, John Andersen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 12/6/2011 2:03 PM, Roger Luedecke wrote:

>> I think considering the scope of this particular list, this sort of
>> conversation is more suitable for the offtopic list.

> Really?
> Its far more on-topic than traffic signs.

+1
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Re: Clinging to Microsoft (was Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?)

Per Jessen-2
In reply to this post by Duaine Hechler
Duaine Hechler wrote:

> On 12/06/2011 04:45 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
>> Duaine Hechler wrote:
>>
>>> My take on the solution - is windows will never go away until all
>>> "windows" software can run "natively" within Linux.
>>
>> For most business users, Windows could go away tomorrow.  I've been
>> running my business entirely on Linux for more than five years.
>
> Then why don't they ??

I think because they don't really care.  For the business it doesn't
really matter if they use one or the other.  There are also advantages
to staying with Windows - no staff adaption/training period,
availability of IT staff/externals.

>>> That being said, then, more than likely, Linux will end up being
>>> susceptible to all the "nasties" of Windows.
>>>
>>> _Or, the emulation software becomes the primary OS (just like IBM's)
>> There are far more MVS-only shops than there ever were
>> VM-installations.
> True - however, VM was used to support multiple VSE machines (Cheaper
> than moving and supporting MVS). One shop I was in, we had 5 copies of
> VSE running which included one for production, one for test and 3 for
> development - for different versions of VSE, CICS and Assembler vs
> COBOL versions of the same production software.

In Europe, VSE died out before my time - I've never encountered a
running system.

> Also, another strange fact, that VM was initially written to run VSE -
> as developers were writing MVS (and its predecessors)
>
> Plus, that was before IBM came up with LPARS (Logical Partitions) in
> the hardware.

Yes, LPARs was used by a lot of shops that might otherwise have been
running VM.  I think we first got LPAR on a 3090-600S around 89-90,
maybe a little earlier.  Of course we had VM anyway, running in the
service processor - a 4381, IIRC?  Anyway, we're straying way OT.


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Re: Clinging to Microsoft (was Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?)

John Bennett
On 07/12/11 17:14, Per Jessen wrote:

> Duaine Hechler wrote:
>
>> On 12/06/2011 04:45 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
>>> Duaine Hechler wrote:
>>>
>>>> My take on the solution - is windows will never go away until all
>>>> "windows" software can run "natively" within Linux.
>>> For most business users, Windows could go away tomorrow.  I've been
>>> running my business entirely on Linux for more than five years.
>> Then why don't they ??
> I think because they don't really care.  For the business it doesn't
> really matter if they use one or the other.  There are also advantages
> to staying with Windows - no staff adaption/training period,
> availability of IT staff/externals.
>
>
Or they just can't get the support from any "other than Windows" suppliers!
Our company has just gone through the process, and were SERIOUSLY
looking at a Linux solution (in particular, Novell).But after months of
trying to get support, both off the web and locally (Qld, Aus.) we gave
up and have gone for another Microsoft solution. Really frustrating!
John.
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Re: Clinging to Microsoft (was Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?)

Roger Oberholtzer
On Wed, 2011-12-07 at 17:38 +1000, John Bennett wrote:

> Or they just can't get the support from any "other than Windows" suppliers!
> Our company has just gone through the process, and were SERIOUSLY
> looking at a Linux solution (in particular, Novell).But after months of
> trying to get support, both off the web and locally (Qld, Aus.) we gave
> up and have gone for another Microsoft solution. Really frustrating!

In our company, they are doing all this stuff with sharing documents and
such. Sharepoint, I think it is. Once you start the MS path with that,
you are pretty much committed. In a company of 8000 engineers, reworking
all that document integration is not likely to happen. Unless migration
is (1) automated, (2) bullet-proof, (3) feature comparable + extras to
warrant the move in the first place, (4) makes the bean counters happy.

Is there a supported Linux alternative to Sharepoint? I mean a complete
professional supported product. Not bits and pieces the average IT
department will never get working.

I think MS upped the ante and don't see Office or simple file sharing as
the way to lock in customers. It is their infrastructure products such
as Sharepoint that does the trick these days. These are much more
difficult to duplicate in an open source solution as they are
undocumented services. If you thought SMB was tricky to reverse
engineer...


Yours sincerely,

Roger Oberholtzer

OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST

Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20
Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696
[hidden email]
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www.rambollrst.se


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Re: Clinging to Microsoft (was Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?)

LinuxIsOne-2
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:51 AM, Roger Oberholtzer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In our company, they are doing all this stuff with sharing documents and
> such. Sharepoint, I think it is. Once you start the MS path with that,
> you are pretty much committed. In a company of 8000 engineers, reworking
> all that document integration is not likely to happen. Unless migration
> is (1) automated, (2) bullet-proof, (3) feature comparable + extras to
> warrant the move in the first place, (4) makes the bean counters happy.

> Is there a supported Linux alternative to Sharepoint? I mean a complete
> professional supported product. Not bits and pieces the average IT
> department will never get working.

> I think MS upped the ante and don't see Office or simple file sharing as
> the way to lock in customers. It is their infrastructure products such
> as Sharepoint that does the trick these days. These are much more
> difficult to duplicate in an open source solution as they are
> undocumented services. If you thought SMB was tricky to reverse
> engineer...

You mean to say that MS is better?
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Re: Clinging to Microsoft (was Re: Why openSUSE is less popular than Ubuntu?)

Sven Burmeister
In reply to this post by Duaine Hechler
Am Dienstag, 6. Dezember 2011, 17:22:49 schrieb Duaine Hechler:
> On 12/06/2011 04:45 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
> > Duaine Hechler wrote:
> >> My take on the solution - is windows will never go away until all
> >> "windows" software can run "natively" within Linux.
> >
> > For most business users, Windows could go away tomorrow.  I've been
> > running my business entirely on Linux for more than five years.
>
> Then why don't they ??

In my experience: 1. MS Office, 2. a mixture of IT employees that are used to
MS and costs of change.

Sven
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