What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

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What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Per Jessen
AFAICT, this was introduced in 12.2 - what is the exact purpose and can
I get rid of it?


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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Ed Greshko
On 09/15/2012 08:08 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
> AFAICT, this was introduced in 12.2 - what is the exact purpose and can
> I get rid of it?
>
>
man systemd-journald
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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Per Jessen
Ed Greshko wrote:

> On 09/15/2012 08:08 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
>> AFAICT, this was introduced in 12.2 - what is the exact purpose and
>> can I get rid of it?
>>
>>
> man systemd-journald

Been there already, but it doesn't answer either of my questions.


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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Ed Greshko
On 09/15/2012 09:40 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

> Ed Greshko wrote:
>
>> On 09/15/2012 08:08 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
>>> AFAICT, this was introduced in 12.2 - what is the exact purpose and
>>> can I get rid of it?
>>>
>>>
>> man systemd-journald
> Been there already, but it doesn't answer either of my questions.
>

It is basically rsyslog for systemd.   Its helpmate, journalctl is used to query the logs.  Can be useful for debugging systemd problems.

If you don't want to log, you should be able to disable the service.
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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Per Jessen
Ed Greshko wrote:

> On 09/15/2012 09:40 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
>> Ed Greshko wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/15/2012 08:08 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
>>>> AFAICT, this was introduced in 12.2 - what is the exact purpose and
>>>> can I get rid of it?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> man systemd-journald
>> Been there already, but it doesn't answer either of my questions.
>>
>
> It is basically rsyslog for systemd.   Its helpmate, journalctl is
> used to query the logs.  Can be useful for debugging systemd problems.
>
> If you don't want to log, you should be able to disable the service.

I do want to log, but I've looked at the journal already and didn't see
anything that wasn't already in /var/log/messages, /var/log/mail etc.
Seems like a duplication of effort and a waste of space in
/var/log/journal.  (which afaict can just be deleted).


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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Togan Muftuoglu-3
On 09/15/2012 04:49 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

> Ed Greshko wrote:
>
>> It is basically rsyslog for systemd.   Its helpmate, journalctl is
>> used to query the logs.  Can be useful for debugging systemd problems.
>>
>> If you don't want to log, you should be able to disable the service.
>
> I do want to log, but I've looked at the journal already and didn't see
> anything that wasn't already in /var/log/messages, /var/log/mail etc.
> Seems like a duplication of effort and a waste of space in
> /var/log/journal.  (which afaict can just be deleted).
>

have you looked at /etc/systemd/system.conf  or one of the other files
to do some tweaking

Togan
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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Per Jessen
Togan Muftuoglu wrote:

> On 09/15/2012 04:49 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
>> Ed Greshko wrote:
>>
>>> It is basically rsyslog for systemd.   Its helpmate, journalctl is
>>> used to query the logs.  Can be useful for debugging systemd
>>> problems.
>>>
>>> If you don't want to log, you should be able to disable the service.
>>
>> I do want to log, but I've looked at the journal already and didn't
>> see anything that wasn't already in /var/log/messages, /var/log/mail
>> etc. Seems like a duplication of effort and a waste of space in
>> /var/log/journal.  (which afaict can just be deleted).
>>
>
> have you looked at /etc/systemd/system.conf  or one of the other files
> to do some tweaking

Not all of them no, but I did glance over the journald config file.
There's stuff to limit the size and logging rate controls, but there
was no "Enable=Yes"  setting :-)



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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Togan Muftuoglu-3
On 09/15/2012 04:58 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

> Togan Muftuoglu wrote:
>
>> On 09/15/2012 04:49 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
>>> Ed Greshko wrote:
>>>
>>>> It is basically rsyslog for systemd.   Its helpmate, journalctl is
>>>> used to query the logs.  Can be useful for debugging systemd
>>>> problems.
>>>>
>>>> If you don't want to log, you should be able to disable the service.
>>>
>>> I do want to log, but I've looked at the journal already and didn't
>>> see anything that wasn't already in /var/log/messages, /var/log/mail
>>> etc. Seems like a duplication of effort and a waste of space in
>>> /var/log/journal.  (which afaict can just be deleted).
>>>
>>
>> have you looked at /etc/systemd/system.conf  or one of the other files
>> to do some tweaking
>
> Not all of them no, but I did glance over the journald config file.
> There's stuff to limit the size and logging rate controls, but there
> was no "Enable=Yes"  setting :-)
>
>

then there is the mask option in man systemctl maybe that is what you want

mask [NAME...]
    Mask one or more unit files, as specified on the command line. This
    will link these units to /dev/null, making it impossible to start
    them. This is a stronger version of disable, since it prohibits all
    kinds of activation of the unit, including manual activation. Use
    this option with care.


Togan
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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Ed Greshko
In reply to this post by Per Jessen
On 09/15/2012 10:49 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

> Ed Greshko wrote:
>
>> On 09/15/2012 09:40 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
>>> Ed Greshko wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 09/15/2012 08:08 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
>>>>> AFAICT, this was introduced in 12.2 - what is the exact purpose and
>>>>> can I get rid of it?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> man systemd-journald
>>> Been there already, but it doesn't answer either of my questions.
>>>
>> It is basically rsyslog for systemd.   Its helpmate, journalctl is
>> used to query the logs.  Can be useful for debugging systemd problems.
>>
>> If you don't want to log, you should be able to disable the service.
> I do want to log, but I've looked at the journal already and didn't see
> anything that wasn't already in /var/log/messages, /var/log/mail etc.
> Seems like a duplication of effort and a waste of space in
> /var/log/journal.  (which afaict can just be deleted).
>
>


I don't have 12.2, my experience with this service is in Fedora where it logs to /run/log/journal/ so as to not take up space on the disk.

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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Per Jessen
Ed Greshko wrote:

> On 09/15/2012 10:49 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
>> Ed Greshko wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/15/2012 09:40 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
>>>> Ed Greshko wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 09/15/2012 08:08 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
>>>>>> AFAICT, this was introduced in 12.2 - what is the exact purpose
>>>>>> and can I get rid of it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> man systemd-journald
>>>> Been there already, but it doesn't answer either of my questions.
>>>>
>>> It is basically rsyslog for systemd.   Its helpmate, journalctl is
>>> used to query the logs.  Can be useful for debugging systemd
>>> problems.
>>>
>>> If you don't want to log, you should be able to disable the service.
>> I do want to log, but I've looked at the journal already and didn't
>> see anything that wasn't already in /var/log/messages, /var/log/mail
>> etc. Seems like a duplication of effort and a waste of space in
>> /var/log/journal.  (which afaict can just be deleted).
>>
>
> I don't have 12.2, my experience with this service is in Fedora where
> it logs to /run/log/journal/ so as to not take up space on the disk.

Right, but on openSUSE we create /var/log/journal at installation time.
Anyway, I can just delete that, but what I am still wondering about is
whether this journald gives me something I don't already have?  I.e.
back to $SUBJ.



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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Marcus Meissner
On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 05:27:22PM +0200, Per Jessen wrote:

> Ed Greshko wrote:
>
> > On 09/15/2012 10:49 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
> >> Ed Greshko wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 09/15/2012 09:40 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
> >>>> Ed Greshko wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 09/15/2012 08:08 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
> >>>>>> AFAICT, this was introduced in 12.2 - what is the exact purpose
> >>>>>> and can I get rid of it?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> man systemd-journald
> >>>> Been there already, but it doesn't answer either of my questions.
> >>>>
> >>> It is basically rsyslog for systemd.   Its helpmate, journalctl is
> >>> used to query the logs.  Can be useful for debugging systemd
> >>> problems.
> >>>
> >>> If you don't want to log, you should be able to disable the service.
> >> I do want to log, but I've looked at the journal already and didn't
> >> see anything that wasn't already in /var/log/messages, /var/log/mail
> >> etc. Seems like a duplication of effort and a waste of space in
> >> /var/log/journal.  (which afaict can just be deleted).
> >>
> >
> > I don't have 12.2, my experience with this service is in Fedora where
> > it logs to /run/log/journal/ so as to not take up space on the disk.
>
> Right, but on openSUSE we create /var/log/journal at installation time.
> Anyway, I can just delete that, but what I am still wondering about is
> whether this journald gives me something I don't already have?  I.e.
> back to $SUBJ.

It is a cryptographically protected (allowing knowing when it was tampered with
by potential attackers), strongly typed logfile in comparison to /var/log/messages.

Here is the design document:
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1IC9yOXj7j6cdLLxWEBAGRL6wl97tFxgjLUEHIX3MSTs

Ciao, Marcus
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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Cristian Rodríguez-2
In reply to this post by Per Jessen
El 15/09/12 09:08, Per Jessen escribió:
> AFAICT, this was introduced in 12.2 - what is the exact purpose and can
> I get rid of it?
>
>
The purpose of the journal is documented here

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1IC9yOXj7j6cdLLxWEBAGRL6wl97tFxgjLUEHIX3MSTs

Cheers.
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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Cristian Rodríguez-2
In reply to this post by Per Jessen
El 15/09/12 11:49, Per Jessen escribió:

> I do want to log, but I've looked at the journal already and didn't see
> anything that wasn't already in /var/log/messages, /var/log/mail etc.
> Seems like a duplication of effort and a waste of space in
> /var/log/journal.  (which afaict can just be deleted).

It is significantly more powerful than traditional logging:

For example

journalctl /usr/bin/foo --> get messages from program foo

journalctl /dev/sda --> hard-drive problems ?

journalctl -p error --> only errors

(note that all this 3 are not implemented in openSUSE yet)


Currently it is not a full replacement for syslog but I suggest you to
check it out.







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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Cristian Rodríguez-2
In reply to this post by Per Jessen
El 15/09/12 12:27, Per Jessen escribió:

> Right, but on openSUSE we create /var/log/journal at installation time.
> Anyway, I can just delete that,

Yes, you can delete that directory and the journal will not have
persistent logging, however it will still be functional.

but what I am still wondering about is
> whether this journald gives me something I don't already have?

Yes, the ability to know for sure the messages are not being tampered
with, faster search... however at this stage there are no apps using its
full power.. that will probably come along in future releases.



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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Cristian Rodríguez-2
In reply to this post by Per Jessen
El 15/09/12 11:58, Per Jessen escribió:

> Not all of them no, but I did glance over the journald config file.
> There's stuff to limit the size and logging rate controls, but there
> was no "Enable=Yes"  setting :-)

It is simple, JUst use SystemMaxUse=nM , where n is an integer used to
set the number of megabytes that the journal can use on disk.

However it is smart-ass and even if you dont use this limit, it will not
use more than 10% of the size of the filesystem.



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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Per Jessen
In reply to this post by Cristian Rodríguez-2
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

> El 15/09/12 09:08, Per Jessen escribió:
>> AFAICT, this was introduced in 12.2 - what is the exact purpose and
>> can I get rid of it?
>>
>>
> The purpose of the journal is documented here
>
>https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1IC9yOXj7j6cdLLxWEBAGRL6wl97tFxgjLUEHIX3MSTs
>

Thanks - any chance of getting a condensed version? :-)


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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Per Jessen
In reply to this post by Cristian Rodríguez-2
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

> El 15/09/12 11:58, Per Jessen escribió:
>
>> Not all of them no, but I did glance over the journald config file.
>> There's stuff to limit the size and logging rate controls, but there
>> was no "Enable=Yes"  setting :-)
>
> It is simple, JUst use SystemMaxUse=nM , where n is an integer used to
> set the number of megabytes that the journal can use on disk.
>
> However it is smart-ass and even if you dont use this limit, it will
> not use more than 10% of the size of the filesystem.

Thanks - I'm surprised there is no way of disabling it when it brings me
absolutely nothing that I want (the current situation).  In openSUSE I
think we should have omitted /var/log/journal, but it is easily deleted
of course.



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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Christofer C. Bell
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 3:22 AM, Per Jessen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks - I'm surprised there is no way of disabling it when it brings me
> absolutely nothing that I want (the current situation).  In openSUSE I
> think we should have omitted /var/log/journal, but it is easily deleted
> of course.

Without it, systemd has no way to log anything.  If you're going to
get rid of journald, you may consider booting your system with
sysvinit (deprecated) and eschewing systemd entirely (which you won't
be able to do for much longer).

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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Per Jessen
Christofer C. Bell wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 3:22 AM, Per Jessen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks - I'm surprised there is no way of disabling it when it brings
>> me
>> absolutely nothing that I want (the current situation).  In openSUSE
>> I think we should have omitted /var/log/journal, but it is easily
>> deleted of course.
>
> Without it, systemd has no way to log anything.  If you're going to
> get rid of journald, you may consider booting your system with
> sysvinit (deprecated) and eschewing systemd entirely (which you won't
> be able to do for much longer).

Hmm, how did systemd manage to log anything in openSUSE 12.1 when there
was no journald thingie?  Also, it doesn't seem to journal anything
that isn't already logged to syslog?



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Re: What is the purpose of the systemd journal service?

Andreas Jaeger-8
In reply to this post by Christofer C. Bell
On 09/16/2012 11:37 AM, Christofer C. Bell wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 3:22 AM, Per Jessen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks - I'm surprised there is no way of disabling it when it brings me
>> absolutely nothing that I want (the current situation).  In openSUSE I
>> think we should have omitted /var/log/journal, but it is easily deleted
>> of course.
>
> Without it, systemd has no way to log anything.  If you're going to
> get rid of journald, you may consider booting your system with
> sysvinit (deprecated) and eschewing systemd entirely (which you won't
> be able to do for much longer).


systemd should work without the journal,

Andreas
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