Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

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Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Michael Skiba-2
Hi folks,

Right now I'm a little bit confused which translations are used for which oS
version and where they are being pulled from. I must have lost track over one
of the lengthy and passionate conversations - which I do not want to encourage
with this thread. It is really more about where the work is most useful.

From what I understand we currently have the following situation:
- svn.o.o contains trunk which is used for the tumbleweed version and does not
go into translation freeze anymore.
- svn.o.o also contains SLE branches that are used for the LEAP version.
- l10n.o.o contains a reduced set of files(?) that is being hosted on github
and is used for ???

Is there any synchronization between those branches (especially between
Weblate and trunk)?

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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Tomas Chvatal
Michael Skiba píše v Pá 11. 03. 2016 v 20:57 +0100:

> Hi folks,
>
> Right now I'm a little bit confused which translations are used for
> which oS
> version and where they are being pulled from. I must have lost track
> over one
> of the lengthy and passionate conversations - which I do not want to
> encourage
> with this thread. It is really more about where the work is most
> useful.
>
> From what I understand we currently have the following situation:
> - svn.o.o contains trunk which is used for the tumbleweed version and
> does not
> go into translation freeze anymore.
> - svn.o.o also contains SLE branches that are used for the LEAP
> version.
> - l10n.o.o contains a reduced set of files(?) that is being hosted on
> github
> and is used for ???
>
> Is there any synchronization between those branches (especially
> between
> Weblate and trunk)?
Consider it this way:

svn.o.o: repo splits per releases of openSUSE rather than releases
l10.opensuse.org: weblate linked to git and branches of the projects

In short you translate master branch that goes to the project and then
upon release is put to the respective branch.

If the project is tied to the releases (releasenotes) then you have
translation memory of all branches and see them all. Differentiating
strings are sent only to respective branches. When anyone decides to do
release based on the branch it will have all the goodies.

The release notes example:
https://github.com/openSUSE/release-notes-openSUSE/commits/master
https://github.com/openSUSE/release-notes-openSUSE/commits/Leap_42.1

Basically everything that is put in svn might get used atm but will be
definitely migrated to weblate and not lost.

Atm the update of weblate with bugs fixed from the last round is in
progress here
https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor/M17N:l10n.opensuse.org
When it builds and gets published more stuff will get migrated.

HTH

Tom

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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Karl Ove Hufthammer
Tomas Chvatal skreiv 11. mars 2016 21:51:
> Atm the update of weblate with bugs fixed from the last round is in
> progress here
> https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor/M17N:l10n.opensuse.org
> When it builds and gets published more stuff will get migrated.

Am I understanding you correctly in that all the openSUSE translations
files will be moved to Weblate? And that the translators will have to
use Weblate to translate openSUSE in the future?

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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Karl Ove Hufthammer
Karl Ove Hufthammer skreiv 11. mars 2016 22:46:
>> Atm the update of weblate with bugs fixed from the last round is in
>> progress here
>> https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor/M17N:l10n.opensuse.org
>> When it builds and gets published more stuff will get migrated.
>
> Am I understanding you correctly in that all the openSUSE translations
> files will be moved to Weblate? And that the translators will have to
> use Weblate to translate openSUSE in the future?

I never got a reply, but stumbled over this blog post today, which seems
to list the plans for the translation infrastructure for openSUSE (not
very good news, I’m afraid):

http://rootco.de/board/2016/03/20/board-meeting-f2f-2016-p3.html

    i18n.o.o: Translations site is being migrated to l10n.o.o as we
    speak and i18n will be killed including the svn prior Leap 42.2 release.


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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Carlos E. R.-2
On 2016-03-20 18:30, Karl Ove Hufthammer wrote:

> Karl Ove Hufthammer skreiv 11. mars 2016 22:46:
>>> Atm the update of weblate with bugs fixed from the last round is in
>>> progress here
>>> https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor/M17N:l10n.opensuse.org
>>> When it builds and gets published more stuff will get migrated.
>>
>> Am I understanding you correctly in that all the openSUSE translations
>> files will be moved to Weblate? And that the translators will have to
>> use Weblate to translate openSUSE in the future?
>
> I never got a reply, but stumbled over this blog post today, which seems
> to list the plans for the translation infrastructure for openSUSE (not
> very good news, I’m afraid):
>
> http://rootco.de/board/2016/03/20/board-meeting-f2f-2016-p3.html
>
>    i18n.o.o: Translations site is being migrated to l10n.o.o as we
>    speak and i18n will be killed including the svn prior Leap 42.2 release.

Sigh.

Well, that's the end for me. I won't be able to translate for openSUSE.
Maybe other people will continue, who knows.

--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)


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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Luiz Fernando Ranghetti-2
2016-03-20 17:37 GMT-03:00 Carlos E. R. <[hidden email]>:

> On 2016-03-20 18:30, Karl Ove Hufthammer wrote:
>> Karl Ove Hufthammer skreiv 11. mars 2016 22:46:
>>>> Atm the update of weblate with bugs fixed from the last round is in
>>>> progress here
>>>> https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor/M17N:l10n.opensuse.org
>>>> When it builds and gets published more stuff will get migrated.
>>>
>>> Am I understanding you correctly in that all the openSUSE translations
>>> files will be moved to Weblate? And that the translators will have to
>>> use Weblate to translate openSUSE in the future?
>>
>> I never got a reply, but stumbled over this blog post today, which seems
>> to list the plans for the translation infrastructure for openSUSE (not
>> very good news, I’m afraid):
>>
>> http://rootco.de/board/2016/03/20/board-meeting-f2f-2016-p3.html
>>
>>    i18n.o.o: Translations site is being migrated to l10n.o.o as we
>>    speak and i18n will be killed including the svn prior Leap 42.2 release.
>
>
> Sigh.
>
> Well, that's the end for me. I won't be able to translate for openSUSE.
> Maybe other people will continue, who knows.
>
> --
> Cheers / Saludos,
>
>                 Carlos E. R.
>                 (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
>

Hi,

On the other side, I'm confident with this move and the possibilities
it brings (translate of various branches simultaneously, up-to-date
files directly taken from git, etc). If this new version have the
missing things on 2.3 (coordinator and reviewer roles, etc) it will be
a step forward in the situation we have now.

Regards,

Luiz
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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Karl Ove Hufthammer
Luiz Fernando Ranghetti skreiv 21. mars 2016 18:31:
> On the other side, I'm confident with this move and the possibilities
> it brings (translate of various branches simultaneously, up-to-date
> files directly taken from git, etc). If this new version have the
> missing things on 2.3 (coordinator and reviewer roles, etc) it will be
> a step forward in the situation we have now.

Sure, if this fixes the basic problems that 1) strings from the
applications are not available to the translators, and 2) translations
done by the translators aren’t incorporated into the (released)
applications, that’s a *good thing*.

But that we have to completely change the tools we use for translating,
to an inefficient Web-based tool lacking most of the tools we rely on
for high-quality translations, and taking away our choice of editor to
use, that’s a *bad thing*.

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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Luiz Fernando Ranghetti-2
2016-03-21 14:50 GMT-03:00 Karl Ove Hufthammer <[hidden email]>:

> Luiz Fernando Ranghetti skreiv 21. mars 2016 18:31:
>>
>> On the other side, I'm confident with this move and the possibilities
>> it brings (translate of various branches simultaneously, up-to-date
>> files directly taken from git, etc). If this new version have the
>> missing things on 2.3 (coordinator and reviewer roles, etc) it will be
>> a step forward in the situation we have now.
>
>
> Sure, if this fixes the basic problems that 1) strings from the applications
> are not available to the translators, and 2) translations done by the
> translators aren’t incorporated into the (released) applications, that’s a
> *good thing*.
>
> But that we have to completely change the tools we use for translating, to
> an inefficient Web-based tool lacking most of the tools we rely on for
> high-quality translations, and taking away our choice of editor to use,
> that’s a *bad thing*.
>
> --
> Karl Ove Hufthammer
> --


You can use the tools/editor you like, just download the .po file from
weblate, do the magic, and upload it back.

Eg: https://l10n.opensuse.org/projects/release-notes-opensuse/leap_42_1/pt_BR/
 Files -> Dowload source file and after, Files -> Upload translation

To lock the translation, so no one translate it, there is the option
Tools -> Locking (this is what some teams use Vertaal to do)


What is doesn't have now is the coordinator or reviewer roles
(thinking about hierarchy).

Regards,

Luiz
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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Karl Ove Hufthammer
Luiz Fernando Ranghetti skreiv 21. mars 2016 19:00:
> You can use the tools/editor you like, just download the .po file from
> weblate, do the magic, and upload it back.
>
> Eg:https://l10n.opensuse.org/projects/release-notes-opensuse/leap_42_1/pt_BR/
>   Files -> Dowload source file and after, Files -> Upload translation

Yes, I know. And that’s not helping on the efficiency part. Having to
manually download and upload each file manually takes *a lot* of time.
For typical maintenance work (e.g. changing a few strings here and there
in a bunch of files), spend much more time on manually downloading and
uploading files than on the actual translation and QA work. (I know,
since I have to use the process for a few non-openSUSE projects.)

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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Luiz Fernando Ranghetti-2
2016-03-21 16:19 GMT-03:00 Karl Ove Hufthammer <[hidden email]>:

> Luiz Fernando Ranghetti skreiv 21. mars 2016 19:00:
>>
>> You can use the tools/editor you like, just download the .po file from
>> weblate, do the magic, and upload it back.
>>
>>
>> Eg:https://l10n.opensuse.org/projects/release-notes-opensuse/leap_42_1/pt_BR/
>>   Files -> Dowload source file and after, Files -> Upload translation
>
>
> Yes, I know. And that’s not helping on the efficiency part. Having to
> manually download and upload each file manually takes *a lot* of time. For
> typical maintenance work (e.g. changing a few strings here and there in a
> bunch of files), spend much more time on manually downloading and uploading
> files than on the actual translation and QA work. (I know, since I have to
> use the process for a few non-openSUSE projects.)
>
> --
> Karl Ove Hufthammer
> --


Hi,

Maybe it could be implemented in this coordinator role its missing now.

https://github.com/nijel/weblate/issues to add this enhancement request.

Regards,

Luiz
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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Luiz Fernando Ranghetti-2
2016-03-21 16:49 GMT-03:00 Luiz Fernando Ranghetti <[hidden email]>:

> 2016-03-21 16:19 GMT-03:00 Karl Ove Hufthammer <[hidden email]>:
>> Luiz Fernando Ranghetti skreiv 21. mars 2016 19:00:
>>>
>>> You can use the tools/editor you like, just download the .po file from
>>> weblate, do the magic, and upload it back.
>>>
>>>
>>> Eg:https://l10n.opensuse.org/projects/release-notes-opensuse/leap_42_1/pt_BR/
>>>   Files -> Dowload source file and after, Files -> Upload translation
>>
>>
>> Yes, I know. And that’s not helping on the efficiency part. Having to
>> manually download and upload each file manually takes *a lot* of time. For
>> typical maintenance work (e.g. changing a few strings here and there in a
>> bunch of files), spend much more time on manually downloading and uploading
>> files than on the actual translation and QA work. (I know, since I have to
>> use the process for a few non-openSUSE projects.)
>>
>> --
>> Karl Ove Hufthammer
>> --
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Maybe it could be implemented in this coordinator role its missing now.
>
> https://github.com/nijel/weblate/issues to add this enhancement request.
>
> Regards,
>
> Luiz

Hi,

I ask this to the author and he says that he will implement some API
to do this king of things for the new version 2.6:

https://github.com/nijel/weblate/issues/931

Regards,

Luiz
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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Luiz Fernando Ranghetti-2
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On Monday, 2016-03-21 at 15:00 -0300, Luiz Fernando Ranghetti wrote:

> You can use the tools/editor you like, just download the .po file from
> weblate, do the magic, and upload it back.

No, unless all the files to translate are in a single directory per
language. It is not feasible to go searching around to find the files to
translate.

- --
Cheers,
        Carlos E. R.
        (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Luiz Fernando Ranghetti-2
2016-03-21 18:13 GMT-03:00 Carlos E. R. <[hidden email]>:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
>
> On Monday, 2016-03-21 at 15:00 -0300, Luiz Fernando Ranghetti wrote:
>
>> You can use the tools/editor you like, just download the .po file from
>> weblate, do the magic, and upload it back.
>
>
> No, unless all the files to translate are in a single directory per
> language. It is not feasible to go searching around to find the files to
> translate.
>
> - -- Cheers,
>        Carlos E. R.
>        (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
>

Hi,

So what should be done? Keep what we have? A svn which is not updated
(for years someone [keichwa] has to poke all the developers to send
the updated pot files, and then send back the translated files to svn,
now git).

Regards,

Luiz
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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Carlos E. R.-2
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On Monday, 2016-03-21 at 18:23 -0300, Luiz Fernando Ranghetti wrote:

>> No, unless all the files to translate are in a single directory per
>> language. It is not feasible to go searching around to find the files to
>> translate.
>
> So what should be done? Keep what we have? A svn which is not updated
> (for years someone [keichwa] has to poke all the developers to send
> the updated pot files, and then send back the translated files to svn,
> now git).

I don't know, but me, I will not go hunting files around. And I know
others will not, either. I can do that for a few, really few files if
they are really important. But openSUSE has about 150 files to
translate (just looking at the 13.2 branch).

If you want proven ideas, look at how kde team does it...

- --
Cheers,
        Carlos E. R.
        (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Karl Ove Hufthammer
In reply to this post by Luiz Fernando Ranghetti-2
Luiz Fernando Ranghetti skreiv 21. mars 2016 22:11:
> I ask this to the author and he says that he will implement some API
> to do this king of things for the new version 2.6:
>
> https://github.com/nijel/weblate/issues/931

The specification is listed in this issue
https://github.com/nijel/weblate/issues/416

    Scope of API planned for 2.6 is to be able to handle basic
    translation wide operations:

      * Commit all changes.
      * Trigger pull.
      * Locking/unlocking translations.
      * Download translation file.
      * Upload translation file.
      * Listing of translation projects and components.

    This however needs some protection, OAuth is probably overkill here
    (and hard to manage for scripts), generating API key for each user
    should be good enough.

If this is eventually getting implemented (the plans on the Github issue
is from 2013), is going to work like it’s described and openSUSE would
update to this version, I would be very happy with it. One can create
some simple scripts and then work offline, using whatever editor and
tools one prefers, just like with the SVN old system.

Of course, one would probably want to run one’s own version control
system (version control is important!), but now that we have distributed
systems like Git, that’s easy.

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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Karl Ove Hufthammer
In reply to this post by Luiz Fernando Ranghetti-2
Luiz Fernando Ranghetti skreiv 21. mars 2016 22:23:
> So what should be done? Keep what we have? A svn which is not updated
> (for years someone [keichwa] has to poke all the developers to send
> the updated pot files, and then send back the translated files to svn,
> now git).

I don’t think Weblate actually solves this problem. From what I’ve read,
it looks like the developers *still* have to update the template files
and then update the translation files based on the templates. See
http://weblate.readthedocs.org/en/latest/faq.html


          Why does Weblate still shows old translation strings when I’ve
          updated the template?

    Weblate does not try to manipulate with the translation files in any
    other way than allowing translators to translate. So it also does
    not update the translatable files when the template or source code
    has been changed. You simply have to do this manually and push
    changes to the repository, Weblate will then pick up the changes
    automatically.


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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Karl Ove Hufthammer
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On Tuesday, 2016-03-22 at 09:19 +0100, Karl Ove Hufthammer wrote:

> If this is eventually getting implemented (the plans on the Github issue is
> from 2013), is going to work like it’s described and openSUSE would update to
> this version, I would be very happy with it. One can create some simple
> scripts and then work offline, using whatever editor and tools one prefers,
> just like with the SVN old system.
>
> Of course, one would probably want to run one’s own version control system
> (version control is important!), but now that we have distributed systems like
> Git, that’s easy.


You mean that we would have to, each of us, keep and maintain a script
that pulls all the translation files into our own machines, and have
some version control in there?

Why not the, have it centralized, into the current svn?

- --
Cheers,
        Carlos E. R.
        (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Vojtěch Zeisek-2
Dne úterý 22. března 2016 11:09:30 CET, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):

> On Tuesday, 2016-03-22 at 09:19 +0100, Karl Ove Hufthammer wrote:
> > If this is eventually getting implemented (the plans on the Github issue
> > is
> > from 2013), is going to work like it’s described and openSUSE would update
> > to this version, I would be very happy with it. One can create some
> > simple scripts and then work offline, using whatever editor and tools one
> > prefers, just like with the SVN old system.
> >
> > Of course, one would probably want to run one’s own version control system
> > (version control is important!), but now that we have distributed systems
> > like Git, that’s easy.
>
> You mean that we would have to, each of us, keep and maintain a script
> that pulls all the translation files into our own machines, and have
> some version control in there?
All projects have their Git repositories. Git is responsible for version
controlling. You can clone them, keep trace of changes, ask for commit access
etc. The only problem is that each project has its own Git repository.
Otherwise I don't see much problems in it.

> Why not the, have it centralized, into the current svn?

SVN is deprecated, if I can say so. Git is the future.

--
Vojtěch Zeisek

Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu
Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux

https://www.opensuse.org/
https://trapa.cz/

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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Karl Ove Hufthammer
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
Carlos E. R. skreiv 22. mars 2016 11:09:
> You mean that we would have to, each of us, keep and maintain a script
> that pulls all the translation files into our own machines, and have
> some version control in there?
>
> Why not the, have it centralized, into the current svn?

Because the current SVN repository will be ‘killed’, according to the
blog post.

But we (the translators that are interested in offline translation) can
of course create our own repository (perhaps on GitHub) for storing and
sharing the scripts. And perhaps even the translation files?

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Re: Weblate, Leap, tumbleweed and what is pulled from where

Vojtěch Zeisek-2
Dne úterý 22. března 2016 11:19:47 CET, Karl Ove Hufthammer napsal(a):
> Carlos E. R. skreiv 22. mars 2016 11:09:
> > You mean that we would have to, each of us, keep and maintain a script
> > that pulls all the translation files into our own machines, and have
> > some version control in there?
> >
> > Why not the, have it centralized, into the current svn?
>
> Because the current SVN repository will be ‘killed’, according to the
> blog post.

Because it doesn't fit requirements anymore, AFAIK,,,

> But we (the translators that are interested in offline translation) can
> of course create our own repository (perhaps on GitHub) for storing and
> sharing the scripts. And perhaps even the translation files?

They are among https://github.com/opensuse (I'm lazy to find them right now).

--
Vojtěch Zeisek

Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu
Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux

https://www.opensuse.org/
https://trapa.cz/

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