Translating Leap

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Translating Leap

Javier Llorente-2
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Hello team mates!

Are there any news regarding the translation of Leap?

According to [1], we have till the 30th of October to translate it,
and well, I would like to start translating it :)

[1]
https://news.opensuse.org/2015/09/04/opensuse-releases-leap-milestone-2/

Greetings,
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Re: Translating Leap

Andrea Turrini
On 21/09/15 03:40, Javier Llorente wrote:
> Hello team mates!
>
> Are there any news regarding the translation of Leap?

Not that I know.

> According to [1], we have till the 30th of October to translate it,
> and well, I would like to start translating it :)

Well, you can translate the Factory trunk, if you desire, hoping that it
is used for some part of Leap.
To me, it is rather unclear from where the packages are taken (some from
SLE almost surely, some from Factory? or from TW?) and it is completely
unclear from where the translations are taken.

Best,
Andrea
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Re: Translating Leap

Carlos E. R.-3
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El 2015-09-21 a las 09:19 +0800, Andrea Turrini escribió:

> Well, you can translate the Factory trunk, if you desire, hoping that it
> is used for some part of Leap.

Only if they pull the package after the translation is pushed into factory
devel's tree.

> To me, it is rather unclear from where the packages are taken (some from
> SLE almost surely, some from Factory? or from TW?) and it is completely
> unclear from where the translations are taken.

So far, nowhere.

It would have to be taken from whatever repository holds the Leap sources
(Leap:42?). Where they take them from, it does not really matter to us :-)


That is; a developer copies (branches or whatever is the OBS parlance) a
package source tree from somwhere. That tree will contain .c files, or
some other language, but also the translation tree for that program, in
some directories.

He, or someone, has to give those directories (pot and po) to us.

And better if it is some automated process, integrated with OBS.

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        Carlos E. R.

        (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith))
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Re: Translating Leap

Karl Eichwalder
In reply to this post by Andrea Turrini
Andrea Turrini <[hidden email]> writes:


> On 21/09/15 03:40, Javier Llorente wrote:

>> According to [1], we have till the 30th of October to translate it,
>> and well, I would like to start translating it :)
>
> Well, you can translate the Factory trunk, if you desire, hoping that it
> is used for some part of Leap.

Yes, that's the plan currently.  For yast, I'll add the "missing"
translations from factory ("trunk") to the SLE yast2-trans bundle.  Then
Leap can inherit it from SLE 12 SP1 and all languages are covered in
openSUSE Leap.

I would be great, if community translators of the official SLE languages
(en_US, ar, cs, de, es, fr, hu, it, ja, ko, nl, pl, pt_BR, ru, sv,
zh_CN, and zh_TW) would compare current factory translations with the
variants in the SLE12-SP1 branch and report issues via bugzilla.
Please, do not change translations in the SLE12-SP1 branch directly.

'lcn' translations we will probably handly in a similar manner.

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Re: Translating Leap

Freek de Kruijf
Op donderdag 1 oktober 2015 12:40:29 schreef Karl Eichwalder:

> Andrea Turrini <[hidden email]> writes:
> > On 21/09/15 03:40, Javier Llorente wrote:
> >> According to [1], we have till the 30th of October to translate it,
> >> and well, I would like to start translating it :)
> >
> > Well, you can translate the Factory trunk, if you desire, hoping that it
> > is used for some part of Leap.
>
> Yes, that's the plan currently.  For yast, I'll add the "missing"
> translations from factory ("trunk") to the SLE yast2-trans bundle.  Then
> Leap can inherit it from SLE 12 SP1 and all languages are covered in
> openSUSE Leap.
>
> I would be great, if community translators of the official SLE languages
> (en_US, ar, cs, de, es, fr, hu, it, ja, ko, nl, pl, pt_BR, ru, sv,
> zh_CN, and zh_TW) would compare current factory translations with the
> variants in the SLE12-SP1 branch and report issues via bugzilla.
> Please, do not change translations in the SLE12-SP1 branch directly.
>
> 'lcn' translations we will probably handly in a similar manner.

Soon after the SLE12-SP1 SVN repository became available I have been
translating yast and lcn po files in that repository. I have a common
Translation Memory in lokalize for all openSUSE versions, so I believe there
are not much differences between the po files for yast and lcn for the
different versions of openSUSE.

Most of the different versions are at 100% translated, except SLE12-SP1 which
currently has only 175 untranslated messages.

Should I really stop doing that?

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Re: Translating Leap

Karl Eichwalder
Freek de Kruijf <[hidden email]> writes:

> Soon after the SLE12-SP1 SVN repository became available I have been
> translating yast and lcn po files in that repository. I have a common
> Translation Memory in lokalize for all openSUSE versions, so I believe there
> are not much differences between the po files for yast and lcn for the
> different versions of openSUSE.

Ok, I see (with 'svn log').  The vendors somehow superseded your
translations in the SLE 12 SP1 branch according to our policy:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
r92814 | kezz90 | 2015-09-17 16:52:47 +0200 (Thu, 17 Sep 2015) | 1 line

Vendor update: additional SLE12SP1 Localization update: Drop2 translation
------------------------------------------------------------------------
r92801 | fdekruijf | 2015-09-16 17:18:17 +0200 (Wed, 16 Sep 2015) | 1 line

update
------------------------------------------------------------------------


> Most of the different versions are at 100% translated, except SLE12-SP1 which
> currently has only 175 untranslated messages.
>
> Should I really stop doing that?

I'm unsure.  If it helps our vendors, it's probably still a good thing.
Shane, what do you think please?

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Re: Translating Leap

Freek de Kruijf
Op donderdag 1 oktober 2015 11:27:45 schreef Shane Wims:
> Hi,
>
> With our current tools and process the best way to suggest changes to the
> SLE translations is via Bugzilla.

I don't think that is workable.
 
> For the SLE supported languages, our vendor translations will overwrite what
> is in subversion each time we have an update.

That's acceptable.
 
> Please note that SLE documentation is prepared based on our vendor
> translations. Volunteer translations could possibly cause conflict between
> SLE software and SLE documentation.

AFAIK the po files contain both documentation and gui elements. I am not aware
of any other documentation in Dutch for yast or applications in lcn.
 

> Regards
>
>
>  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karl Eichwalder [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: 01 October 2015 12:11
> To: Freek de Kruijf
> Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; Shane Wims
> Subject: Re: [opensuse-translation] Translating Leap
>
> Freek de Kruijf <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>
> > Soon after the SLE12-SP1 SVN repository became available I have been
> > translating yast and lcn po files in that repository. I have a common
> > Translation Memory in lokalize for all openSUSE versions, so I believe
> > there are not much differences between the po files for yast and lcn
> > for the different versions of openSUSE.
>
>
> Ok, I see (with 'svn log').  The vendors somehow superseded your
> translations in the SLE 12 SP1 branch according to our policy:
 

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> r92814 | kezz90 | 2015-09-17 16:52:47 +0200 (Thu, 17 Sep 2015) | 1 line
>
> Vendor update: additional SLE12SP1 Localization update: Drop2 translation
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> r92801 | fdekruijf | 2015-09-16 17:18:17 +0200 (Wed, 16 Sep 2015) | 1 line
>
> update
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> > Most of the different versions are at 100% translated, except
> > SLE12-SP1 which currently has only 175 untranslated messages.
> >
> >
> >
> > Should I really stop doing that?
>
>
> I'm unsure.  If it helps our vendors, it's probably still a good thing.
> Shane, what do you think please?
>
> --
> Karl Eichwalder            SUSE Linux GmbH
> R&D / Documentation        Maxfeldstraße 5
>                            90409 Nürnberg, Germany
> GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG
> Nürnberg)

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Re: Translating Leap

Andrea Turrini
In reply to this post by Karl Eichwalder
On 01/10/15 18:40, Karl Eichwalder wrote:
> I would be great, if community translators of the official SLE languages
> (en_US, ar, cs, de, es, fr, hu, it, ja, ko, nl, pl, pt_BR, ru, sv,
> zh_CN, and zh_TW) would compare current factory translations with the
> variants in the SLE12-SP1 branch and report issues via bugzilla.

So you are saying that we should compare slightly less than 17k strings
to find differences, aren't you?
Sorry, but I think this is not feasible, also because it is enough to
have a different wrapping of the strings to break the use of diff.

> Please, do not change translations in the SLE12-SP1 branch directly.
>
> 'lcn' translations we will probably handly in a similar manner.

And here other 17k strings to compare?

BTW, there are 4 strings that can not be translated in the just updated
lcn/update-desktop-files-kde-services.pot since they are not in English
(they refer to QNapi).

Best,
Andrea

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Re: Translating Leap

Karl Eichwalder
Andrea Turrini <[hidden email]> writes:

> So you are saying that we should compare slightly less than 17k strings
> to find differences, aren't you?

Why not? But with tools' support, of course ;)  (for example, with
msgcat.)  If there are too many difference we should find the reason for
this.  I'll try to send more details next week.

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Re: Translating Leap

Karl Ove Hufthammer
In reply to this post by Karl Eichwalder
Den 01. okt. 2015 12:40, Karl Eichwalder skreiv:
>> >Well, you can translate the Factory trunk, if you desire, hoping that it
>> >is used for some part of Leap.
> Yes, that's the plan currently.  For yast, I'll add the "missing"
> translations from factory ("trunk") to the SLE yast2-trans bundle.  Then
> Leap can inherit it from SLE 12 SP1 and all languages are covered in
> openSUSE Leap.

But won’t the application versions in factory/trunk be different from
the ones for SLE 12 SP? And in particular, some strings will be
different. Isn’t that the whole point of SLE12/Leap vs.
factory/trunk/Tumbleweed, that SLE12/Leap contains *stable* versions of
applications?

> I would be great, if community translators of the official SLE languages
> (en_US, ar, cs, de, es, fr, hu, it, ja, ko, nl, pl, pt_BR, ru, sv,
> zh_CN, and zh_TW) would compare current factory translations with the
> variants in the SLE12-SP1 branch and report issues via bugzilla.
> Please, do not change translations in the SLE12-SP1 branch directly.

How about translations of *non-offical* SLE languages? Can/should these
be submitted to the SLE12-SP1 branch
https://svn.opensuse.org/svn/opensuse-i18n/branches/SLE12-SP1/?

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Re: Translating Leap

Karl Ove Hufthammer
In reply to this post by Andrea Turrini
Den 01. okt. 2015 15:41, Andrea Turrini skreiv:

> On 01/10/15 18:40, Karl Eichwalder wrote:
>> >I would be great, if community translators of the official SLE languages
>> >(en_US, ar, cs, de, es, fr, hu, it, ja, ko, nl, pl, pt_BR, ru, sv,
>> >zh_CN, and zh_TW) would compare current factory translations with the
>> >variants in the SLE12-SP1 branch and report issues via bugzilla.
> So you are saying that we should compare slightly less than 17k strings
> to find differences, aren't you?
> Sorry, but I think this is not feasible, also because it is enough to
> have a different wrapping of the strings to break the use of diff.
>

I would recommend the ‘poediff’ tool. It handles different line
wrappings, moved/changed strings and other problems, and shows all
changes using a nice colour-coded ‘inline diff’ syntax. It even has
support for SVN.

Usage example (based on the SVN log in Karl Eichwalder’s e-mail earlier
today):

poediff -c svn -r 92801:92814 registration.nl.po

The diff looks like this (but the {-...-} and {+...+} are colour coded
to make it easier to see where there has been insertions and deletions:

#. TRANSLATORS: Multiselection widget label
#: src/lib/registration/ui/migration_repos_selection_dialog.rb:85
msgid "Select the Repositories used for Migration"
msgstr ""
"{-De installatiebronnen selecteren-}{+Opslagplaatsen+} die {+worden +}"
"gebruikt{- zullen worden-} voor migratie{+ selecteren+}"

#. TRANSLATORS: check button label
#: src/lib/registration/ui/migration_selection_dialog.rb:138
msgid "Manually Adjust the Repositories for Migration"
msgstr ""
"{-De installatiebronnen-}{+Opslagplaatsen+} voor migratie handmatig
aanpassen"

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Re: Translating Leap

Karl Eichwalder-2
In reply to this post by Karl Ove Hufthammer
This has to be decided case by case. Yast, zypper, snapper and probably some more will be identical. At least, for the moment. Maybe, we will need a Leap branch in the future.

coolo is working on the desktop files to get it right.
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Re: Translating Leap

Karl Ove Hufthammer
Den 01. okt. 2015 19:39, Karl Eichwalder wrote:
> This has to be decided case by case. Yast, zypper, snapper and probably some more will be identical. At least, for the moment. Maybe, we will need a Leap branch in the future.

If some tools are taken from trunk and some from SLE12-SP1 (and in the
future other SPs), wouldn’t it be simplest if the translations were
taken from the same (i.e. corresponding) branches? Then there would be
stable (SLE12-SP1) and development versions of translations as well as
of the tools, and everything would be in sync? So whenever Leap would
change from using a SLE12-SP1 version to a trunk version of a tool, the
source of the translation would change along with it.

> coolo is working on the desktop files to get it right.

Are you talking about the problem that the KDE .desktop files were being
stripped of translations (and the translations stored in the .po files
weren’t being used)? If so, that good!

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Re: Translating Leap

Carlos E. R.-3
In reply to this post by Karl Eichwalder
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El 2015-10-01 a las 18:02 +0200, Karl Eichwalder escribió:
> Andrea Turrini <> writes:
>
>> So you are saying that we should compare slightly less than 17k strings
>> to find differences, aren't you?
>
> Why not? But with tools' support, of course ;)  (for example, with
> msgcat.)  If there are too many difference we should find the reason for
> this.  I'll try to send more details next week.

Many translators (in my group, for instance) use vertaal, without access
to the SVN. I don't see how this can work out.

We really need a separate Leap branch.

- --
Cheers
        Carlos E. R.

        (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith))
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