To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

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To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

Alexey Eromenko
Hi all !

Since we have made a deal with MS about patents, I would like to ask
include MS-patented Windows Media Codecs (WMA/WMV) with both openSUSE
10.2 and future SUSE versions... (including Enterprise). The code
exists (on packman sites - the only problem was patents, which is
solved now).

After all, we must use that pact to our advantage.

What do you think ?

-Fenix*NBK*, Open-Source community member. 12.11.2006.
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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

sfreilly
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Hash: SHA1

On Sunday 12 November 2006 13:47, Alexey Eremenko wrote:


Its my understanding that the agreement was for enterprise only.  

of course I could be way off base, as sometimes I am known to be lol.

I dont think we will ever see microsoft codecs as part of an open source
community distribution.  (GPL issues)  I dont think most would want to use
them anyway.



> Hi all !
>
> Since we have made a deal with MS about patents, I would like to ask
> include MS-patented Windows Media Codecs (WMA/WMV) with both openSUSE
> 10.2 and future SUSE versions... (including Enterprise). The code
> exists (on packman sites - the only problem was patents, which is
> solved now).
>
> After all, we must use that pact to our advantage.
>
> What do you think ?
>
> -Fenix*NBK*, Open-Source community member. 12.11.2006.
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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

andreas.hanke
In reply to this post by Alexey Eromenko
Alexey Eremenko schrieb:
> Since we have made a deal with MS about patents, I would like to ask
> include MS-patented Windows Media Codecs (WMA/WMV) with both openSUSE
> 10.2 and future SUSE versions... (including Enterprise). The code
> exists (on packman sites - the only problem was patents, which is
> solved now).

Yeah, it's really cool and funny.

Again: Code that infringes patents will not be distributed, and the
so-called "deal" does not allow anyone to infringe patents. The "deal"
is not as simple as "it has something to do with patents".

The "deal" does not cover what you are asking for. But maybe you're
lucky anyway: RealNetworks has a deal with MS that covers it and Novell
in turn has a deal with RealNetworks.

Having said that, saying "the code exists" about what you can find on
rpm sites is a little bit out of place. These are Windows binaries. MS
does actually license the source code to interested parties, but there
are no flat fees.

That's why you won't get the codecs legally for free: Whoever licenses
them from MS has no other choice than charging for it, the lack of a
flat fee makes it impossible.

If you're seriously(!) interested in what the deal is about and
especially in what it is not about, read the transcript of the last
status meeting:

http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Status_Meeting_2006-11-08/transcript

The other funny jokes were already there often enough
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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

Bugzilla from andjoh@rydsbo.net
On Sunday 12 November 2006 19:57, Andreas Hanke wrote:
> That's why you won't get the codecs legally for free: Whoever licenses
> them from MS has no other choice than charging for it, the lack of a
> flat fee makes it impossible.

I don't think this is true though, RealPlayer will include the codecs in an
upcoming version, and from what I hear it will be distributed free-of-charge
just like before
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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

andreas.hanke
Anders Johansson schrieb:
> I don't think this is true though, RealPlayer will include the codecs in an
> upcoming version, and from what I hear it will be distributed free-of-charge
> just like before

Yeah, that's because Real gets a flat fee for 0$ because of the lawsuit
in Europe, but all others have to pay and there is no flat fee as for
e.g. MP3.
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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

Bugzilla from andjoh@rydsbo.net
In reply to this post by Alexey Eromenko
On Sunday 12 November 2006 19:47, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
> Hi all !
>
> Since we have made a deal with MS about patents, I would like to ask
> include MS-patented Windows Media Codecs (WMA/WMV) with both openSUSE
> 10.2 and future SUSE versions... (including Enterprise). The code
> exists (on packman sites - the only problem was patents, which is
> solved now).

Feel free to open a feature request in bugzilla, but I don't think it's going
to happen. The patent "pact" isn't a license to use

And I can just about guarantee that it won't happen for 10.2, it's far too
late in the release cycle for new features of any kind

But only the PM/RM can speak authoritatively on this
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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

jdd@dodin.org
Anders Johansson a écrit :

> On Sunday 12 November 2006 19:47, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
>> Hi all !
>>
>> Since we have made a deal with MS about patents, I would like to ask
>> include MS-patented Windows Media Codecs (WMA/WMV) with both openSUSE
>> 10.2 and future SUSE versions... (including Enterprise). The code
>> exists (on packman sites - the only problem was patents, which is
>> solved now).
>
> Feel free to open a feature request in bugzilla, but I don't think it's going
> to happen. The patent "pact" isn't a license to use
>
> And I can just about guarantee that it won't happen for 10.2, it's far too
> late in the release cycle for new features of any kind
>
> But only the PM/RM can speak authoritatively on this

it's not even necessary to include it in the distrib, only
being allowed to explain all the possible links officially
on the wiki would be noce, but I fear this will not be possible

jdd


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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

Darryl Gregorash
On 2006-11-12 13:44, jdd wrote:

> Anders Johansson a écrit :
>> On Sunday 12 November 2006 19:47, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
>>> Hi all !
>>>
>>> Since we have made a deal with MS about patents, I would like to ask
>>> include MS-patented Windows Media Codecs (WMA/WMV) with both openSUSE
>>> 10.2 and future SUSE versions... (including Enterprise). The code
>>> exists (on packman sites - the only problem was patents, which is
>>> solved now).
>>
>> Feel free to open a feature request in bugzilla, but I don't think
>> it's going to happen. The patent "pact" isn't a license to use
>>
>> And I can just about guarantee that it won't happen for 10.2, it's
>> far too late in the release cycle for new features of any kind
>>
>> But only the PM/RM can speak authoritatively on this
>
> it's not even necessary to include it in the distrib, only being
> allowed to explain all the possible links officially on the wiki would
> be noce, but I fear this will not be possible
You could always edit the wiki and see how long it lasts :-)
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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

jdd@dodin.org
Darryl Gregorash a écrit :

>> it's not even necessary to include it in the distrib, only being
>> allowed to explain all the possible links officially on the wiki would
>> be nice, but I fear this will not be possible
> You could always edit the wiki and see how long it lasts :-)

can't, it's me who is intended to fix it :-)
jdd


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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

Jan Engelhardt
In reply to this post by Bugzilla from andjoh@rydsbo.net
>> Hi all !
>>
>> Since we have made a deal with MS about patents, I would like to ask
>> include MS-patented Windows Media Codecs (WMA/WMV) with both openSUSE
>> 10.2 and future SUSE versions... (including Enterprise). The code
>> exists (on packman sites - the only problem was patents, which is
>> solved now).
>
>Feel free to open a feature request in bugzilla, but I don't think it's going
>to happen. The patent "pact" isn't a license to use
>
>And I can just about guarantee that it won't happen for 10.2, it's far too
>late in the release cycle for new features of any kind
>
>But only the PM/RM can speak authoritatively on this


There is much more to it than just including windows codecs. Probably
_not even half_ of what you can download as 'w32codecs' belongs to
Microsoft. Think of Divx.com, Apple Quicktime, just to name a few. And
as far as I can predict, there has been no deal with those.
    So all that you could get ATM would be WMA and WMV and maybe some
extra fluff Microsoft licensed. Now that's not worth the hassle.


        -`J'
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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

Darryl Gregorash
In reply to this post by jdd@dodin.org
On 2006-11-12 14:47, jdd wrote:

> Darryl Gregorash a écrit :
>
>>> it's not even necessary to include it in the distrib, only being
>>> allowed to explain all the possible links officially on the wiki would
>>> be nice, but I fear this will not be possible
>> You could always edit the wiki and see how long it lasts :-)
>
> can't, it's me who is intended to fix it :-)
> jdd
>
>
Oh, yes. I see now, you were only suggesting that someone else should
change it :-)

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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

jdd@dodin.org
Darryl Gregorash a écrit :

> On 2006-11-12 14:47, jdd wrote:
>> Darryl Gregorash a écrit :
>>
>>>> it's not even necessary to include it in the distrib, only being
>>>> allowed to explain all the possible links officially on the wiki would
>>>> be nice, but I fear this will not be possible
>>> You could always edit the wiki and see how long it lasts :-)
>> can't, it's me who is intended to fix it :-)
>> jdd
>>
>>
> Oh, yes. I see now, you were only suggesting that someone else should
> change it :-)
>
I only need a green from Novell :-)
jdd

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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

Duncan Mac-Vicar P.
In reply to this post by Alexey Eromenko
On Sunday 12 November 2006 19:47, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

> Hi all !
>
> Since we have made a deal with MS about patents, I would like to ask
> include MS-patented Windows Media Codecs (WMA/WMV) with both openSUSE
> 10.2 and future SUSE versions... (including Enterprise). The code
> exists (on packman sites - the only problem was patents, which is
> solved now).
>
> After all, we must use that pact to our advantage.
>
> What do you think ?

Novell has no deal with Microsoft about patents. Novell can't ship patented
stuff.

The only deal that was made is, if ever patented stuff is found, MS will not
sue customer and viceversa, but the code will be removed anyway.

You know. 1% of the population can undertand what they read, that is why we
get so much fud in the blogs, and now those fashion "Goodbye SUSE I am
changing distro announcements".

Duncan
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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

Basil Chupin
Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett wrote:

> On Sunday 12 November 2006 19:47, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
>> Hi all !
>>
>> Since we have made a deal with MS about patents, I would like to ask
>> include MS-patented Windows Media Codecs (WMA/WMV) with both openSUSE
>> 10.2 and future SUSE versions... (including Enterprise). The code
>> exists (on packman sites - the only problem was patents, which is
>> solved now).
>>
>> After all, we must use that pact to our advantage.
>>
>> What do you think ?
>
> Novell has no deal with Microsoft about patents. Novell can't ship patented
> stuff.
>
> The only deal that was made is, if ever patented stuff is found, MS will not
> sue customer and viceversa, but the code will be removed anyway.
>
> You know. 1% of the population can undertand what they read, that is why we
> get so much fud in the blogs, and now those fashion "Goodbye SUSE I am
> changing distro announcements".

This link was posted in another forum:

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061107194320461


Read the article.

Cheers.

--
"This week, on Tuesday night, in an ironic turnaround, Iraq brought
regime change to the U.S."

 
                    Amy Poehler
                                                                                       

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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

Marcel Mourguiart
In reply to this post by Duncan Mac-Vicar P.

2006/11/13, Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett <[hidden email]>:
On Sunday 12 November 2006 19:47, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

> Hi all !
>
> Since we have made a deal with MS about patents, I would like to ask
> include MS-patented Windows Media Codecs (WMA/WMV) with both openSUSE
> 10.2 and future SUSE versions... (including Enterprise). The code
> exists (on packman sites - the only problem was patents, which is
> solved now).
>
> After all, we must use that pact to our advantage.
>
> What do you think ?

Novell has no deal with Microsoft about patents. Novell can't ship patented
stuff.

The only deal that was made is, if ever patented stuff is found, MS will not
sue customer and viceversa, but the code will be removed anyway.

Microsoft Office 2007 XML documents aren´t patented ??

How are you going to include that on OpenOffice ?

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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

James Knott
In reply to this post by Basil Chupin
Basil Chupin wrote:

> Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett wrote:
>> On Sunday 12 November 2006 19:47, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
>>> Hi all !
>>>
>>> Since we have made a deal with MS about patents, I would like to ask
>>> include MS-patented Windows Media Codecs (WMA/WMV) with both openSUSE
>>> 10.2 and future SUSE versions... (including Enterprise). The code
>>> exists (on packman sites - the only problem was patents, which is
>>> solved now).
>>>
>>> After all, we must use that pact to our advantage.
>>>
>>> What do you think ?
>>
>> Novell has no deal with Microsoft about patents. Novell can't ship
>> patented stuff.
>>
>> The only deal that was made is, if ever patented stuff is found, MS
>> will not sue customer and viceversa, but the code will be removed
>> anyway.
>>
>> You know. 1% of the population can undertand what they read, that is
>> why we get so much fud in the blogs, and now those fashion "Goodbye
>> SUSE I am changing distro announcements".
>
> This link was posted in another forum:
>
> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061107194320461
>
>
> Read the article.
>
> Cheers.
>
That article is PJ's interpretation of the SEC filing.

You might want to read Novell's Q&A at

<http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq_opensource.html>

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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

Dominique Leuenberger-2
In reply to this post by Alexey Eromenko
 

>>> Reply on 13-11-2006 15:52:23 <<<> 2006/11/13, Duncan Mac-Vicar
Prett <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > On Sunday 12 November 2006 19:47, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
> > > Hi all !
> > >
> > > Since we have made a deal with MS about patents, I would like to
> ask
> > > include MS-patented Windows Media Codecs (WMA/WMV) with both
> openSUSE
> > > 10.2 and future SUSE versions... (including Enterprise). The
code
> > > exists (on packman sites - the only problem was patents, which
is

> > > solved now).
> > >
> > > After all, we must use that pact to our advantage.
> > >
> > > What do you think ?
> >
> > Novell has no deal with Microsoft about patents. Novell can't ship
> > patented
> > stuff.
> >
> > The only deal that was made is, if ever patented stuff is found,
MS
> will
> > not
> > sue customer and viceversa, but the code will be removed anyway.
>
>
> Microsoft Office 2007 XML documents arent patented ??
>
> How are you going to include that on OpenOffice ?
>

Did you get the idea from Microsoft to OPEN the SPEC for Office
Document Format? Did you? BTW: It's an ECMA Standard already, and thus
can be freely implemented whenever you want!

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office_Open_XML
(Licensing)
[QUOTE]
The Microsoft Office Open XML format will be available under a free and
perpetual license from Microsoft.

There has been a lot of argument about the ability for OSS software to
use the format even under this fairly open license. Microsoft has tried
to diminish these concerns by officially stating in a covenant not to
sue that it will not sue any organisation for using the format if the
implementation complies to the official OOXML Ecma standard file
formats. This has led to a greater reassurance that the OOXML formats
will also be available for use in OSS software as even expressed by OSS
licensing expert Larry Rosen.

A further indication of the free and open use of the format was given
by Microsoft XML program manager Brian Jones as he presents a legal
analysis on the convenant not to sue and also states that there is "no
license needed to use the Office Open XML formats."
[/QUOTE]

so there Novell just give's the hand to implement that open standard in
OpenOffice. Something, MS for SURE would never do by themself, but it
gives an advantage to OpenOffice as Document Exchange with Office 2007
Users. and THAT's what should be honored!

Dominique
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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

Marcel Mourguiart
In reply to this post by Alexey Eromenko


2006/11/13, Dominique Leuenberger <[hidden email]>:


>>> Reply on 13-11-2006 15:52:23 <<<> 2006/11/13, Duncan Mac-Vicar
Prett <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > On Sunday 12 November 2006 19:47, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
> > > Hi all !
> > >
> > > Since we have made a deal with MS about patents, I would like to
> ask
> > > include MS-patented Windows Media Codecs (WMA/WMV) with both
> openSUSE
> > > 10.2 and future SUSE versions... (including Enterprise). The
code
> > > exists (on packman sites - the only problem was patents, which
is
> > > solved now).
> > >
> > > After all, we must use that pact to our advantage.
> > >
> > > What do you think ?
> >
> > Novell has no deal with Microsoft about patents. Novell can't ship
> > patented
> > stuff.
> >
> > The only deal that was made is, if ever patented stuff is found,
MS
> will
> > not
> > sue customer and viceversa, but the code will be removed anyway.
>
>
> Microsoft Office 2007 XML documents arent patented ??
>
> How are you going to include that on OpenOffice ?
>

Did you get the idea from Microsoft to OPEN the SPEC for Office
Document Format? Did you? BTW: It's an ECMA Standard already, and thus
can be freely implemented whenever you want!

No i don't, that's why i'm asking, please don't confuse my question with all that's fud's  post.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office_Open_XML
(Licensing)
so there Novell just give's the hand to implement that open standard in
OpenOffice. Something, MS for SURE would never do by themself, but it
gives an advantage to OpenOffice as Document Exchange with Office 2007
Users. and THAT's what should be honored!

Dominique

Thanks for the info

--
Marcel Mourguiart
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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

houghi
In reply to this post by Basil Chupin
On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 11:55:17PM +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
> This link was posted in another forum:
>
> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061107194320461

As many people, Grocklaw is not pro-OSS or pro-Linux or pro-GPL. It is
just Anti-Microsoft. Yes, there is a HUGE difference. The Anti-Miceosoft
people do not care if they harm Linux in the process of bringing M$ down.

Remember that even Linus is not in it to break down Microsoft. That wil be
just a nice side effect. Also it pains me to see that the most FUD comes
from OSS and Linux side.

Also read the few following URLs:
http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2168151/novells-opens-microsoft
http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS2927608517.html
http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS4287912423.html
http://en.opensuse.org/Novell_Supported_Projects


houghi
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Re: To Novell SUSE - Please include Windows Media Codecs after deal with Microsoft

Theo v. Werkhoven-2
Mon, 13 Nov 2006, by [hidden email]:

> On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 11:55:17PM +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
> > This link was posted in another forum:
> >
> > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061107194320461
>
> As many people, Grocklaw is not pro-OSS or pro-Linux or pro-GPL. It is
> just Anti-Microsoft. Yes, there is a HUGE difference. The Anti-Miceosoft
> people do not care if they harm Linux in the process of bringing M$ down.
>
> Remember that even Linus is not in it to break down Microsoft. That wil be
> just a nice side effect. Also it pains me to see that the most FUD comes
> from OSS and Linux side.
>
> Also read the few following URLs:
> http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2168151/novells-opens-microsoft
> http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS2927608517.html
> http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS4287912423.html
> http://en.opensuse.org/Novell_Supported_Projects

You can try to be as positive as you like about this "deal" houghi,
but in the end you know just as well as the rest that MS is not in
it to make nice with OSS "community" or anyone supporting OSS for
that matter, they're it it to find some way to make themselfs come
out on top.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/11/microsoft_patent_kuhn_warning/

I for one am not going to spend more money on Novell either, until I
am very convinced that this really *is* a good deal for OSS and
"freedom as in speech".

Theo
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