Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
38 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

Basil Chupin-2
I cannot remember, but in the past sometime didn't the Software Manager
remain on the screen after it had completed downloading and installing
selected files? In 12.1 and 12.2 MS#1 it just disappears off the screen
and one has to go thru the motions of restarting it again using the
Kickoff menu.

If my memory is incorrect (about it remaining available after
downloading/installing s/ware), then is there a way to make the Software
Manager stay put to be able to select more files to download/install and
only close at the user's discretion (by him using the "Close" button)?

BC

--
The vulgar crowd always is taken by appearances, and the world consists chiefly of the vulgar.
                    Niccolo Machiavelli

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

Carl Hartung-2
On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 12:38:32 +1100
Basil Chupin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I cannot remember, but in the past sometime didn't the Software
> Manager remain on the screen after it had completed downloading and
> installing selected files? In 12.1 and 12.2 MS#1 it just disappears
> off the screen and one has to go thru the motions of restarting it
> again using the Kickoff menu.
>
> If my memory is incorrect (about it remaining available after
> downloading/installing s/ware), then is there a way to make the
> Software Manager stay put to be able to select more files to
> download/install and only close at the user's discretion (by him
> using the "Close" button)?
>
> BC

Hi Basil,

I seem to recall a checkbox ... possibly in the final 'confirm changes'
dialogue? ... allowing one to enable / disable keeping the software
management module open after the current changes have been applied.

regards,

Carl
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Basil Chupin-2
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 2012-03-14 02:38, Basil Chupin wrote:
> I cannot remember, but in the past sometime didn't the Software Manager
> remain on the screen after it had completed downloading and installing
> selected files? In 12.1 and 12.2 MS#1 it just disappears off the screen and
> one has to go thru the motions of restarting it again using the Kickoff menu.

/etc/sysconfig/yast2:  PKGMGR_ACTION_AT_EXIT=...

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk9f/fUACgkQIvFNjefEBxromQCgoKR1nOzz92JmeliQxUgvOcy5
84cAoLjSORk0zYRcQBVhiWIJXbcdyzy4
=PxVW
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

Basil Chupin-2
On 14/03/12 13:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 2012-03-14 02:38, Basil Chupin wrote:
>> I cannot remember, but in the past sometime didn't the Software Manager
>> remain on the screen after it had completed downloading and installing
>> selected files? In 12.1 and 12.2 MS#1 it just disappears off the screen and
>> one has to go thru the motions of restarting it again using the Kickoff menu.
> /etc/sysconfig/yast2:  PKGMGR_ACTION_AT_EXIT=...

@ Carl:  thanks for confirming that my memory cells are not yet totally
dead :-) .

Thanks Carlos - I just made the alteration.

This previously was the default (to 'restart') I am sure so I don't
understand why this has been changed......

BC

--
The vulgar crowd always is taken by appearances, and the world consists chiefly of the vulgar.
                    Niccolo Machiavelli

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

Carlos E. R.-2
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 2012-03-14 03:44, Basil Chupin wrote:
> Thanks Carlos - I just made the alteration.

I was "summary".

> This previously was the default (to 'restart') I am sure so I don't
> understand why this has been changed......

The action time ago was a kind of summary or dialog, exit or restart (non
configurable).
Then it was changed to "exit", and no possibility to change.
This started a big discussion, in the factory mail list IIRC, and the
current status was made: it is now configurable. The variable by default is
empty, default action "close". Some argued that the default be changed to
"summary", but it has not changed.

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk9gCD8ACgkQIvFNjefEBxrdBwCfacZ/6zenzocQnmmJj25AxP1k
S+IAoJ9r2iiW3gajJ77kheBmvZl878C0
=S3v6
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

Basil Chupin-2
On 14/03/12 13:53, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 2012-03-14 03:44, Basil Chupin wrote:
>> Thanks Carlos - I just made the alteration.
> I was "summary".
>
>> This previously was the default (to 'restart') I am sure so I don't
>> understand why this has been changed......
> The action time ago was a kind of summary or dialog, exit or restart (non
> configurable).
> Then it was changed to "exit", and no possibility to change.
> This started a big discussion, in the factory mail list IIRC, and the
> current status was made: it is now configurable. The variable by default is
> empty, default action "close". Some argued that the default be changed to
> "summary", but it has not changed.

I haven't looked at 12.1 because I've been using Milestone#1 of 12.2 for
days now and here the parameter is not remed out and is not empty but
has "close" as the entry. I changed this to "restart".

BC

--
The vulgar crowd always is taken by appearances, and the world consists chiefly of the vulgar.
                    Niccolo Machiavelli

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

Ken Schneider - openSUSE
On 03/13/12 23:03, Basil Chupin pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

> On 14/03/12 13:53, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On 2012-03-14 03:44, Basil Chupin wrote:
>>> Thanks Carlos - I just made the alteration.
>> I was "summary".
>>
>>> This previously was the default (to 'restart') I am sure so I don't
>>> understand why this has been changed......
>> The action time ago was a kind of summary or dialog, exit or restart (non
>> configurable).
>> Then it was changed to "exit", and no possibility to change.
>> This started a big discussion, in the factory mail list IIRC, and the
>> current status was made: it is now configurable. The variable by
>> default is
>> empty, default action "close". Some argued that the default be changed to
>> "summary", but it has not changed.
>
> I haven't looked at 12.1 because I've been using Milestone#1 of 12.2 for
> days now and here the parameter is not remed out and is not empty but
> has "close" as the entry. I changed this to "restart".
>
> BC
>


If you use "summary" you then have the option of all three,

close-return-look at summary

--
Ken Schneider
SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

Carlos E. R.-2
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 2012-03-14 13:59, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
> If you use "summary" you then have the option of all three,

Yes, that is what I use. I do it on all systems I install, and then I have
to remember what to change the first time I see the window close.

Unfortunately, YOU closes without question or report :-(

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk9go0AACgkQIvFNjefEBxqHSwCeNdpcjbsTNF9YFYW2pTM3SG0G
fYYAoIns7LRgvDKkBgJybCsFDGtK+2n+
=BK1Q
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

Rajko M.
On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 14:55:12 +0100
"Carlos E. R." <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Unfortunately, YOU closes without question or report :-(

What would be the reason to keep updater opened, after update is
installed?

--
Regards, Rajko
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

scott-268
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 06:09:57PM -0500, Rajko M. wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 14:55:12 +0100
> "Carlos E. R." <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > Unfortunately, YOU closes without question or report :-(

> What would be the reason to keep updater opened, after update is
> installed?

it is used for more than just update -- it is also the software
manager, where ppl search for and install software -- frequently
they want to search for and install something else after they've
installed one thing

sc
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

Rajko M.
On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 18:20:32 -0500
sc <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 06:09:57PM -0500, Rajko M. wrote:
> > On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 14:55:12 +0100
> > "Carlos E. R." <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > > Unfortunately, YOU closes without question or report :-(
>
> > What would be the reason to keep updater opened, after update is
> > installed?
>
> it is used for more than just update -- it is also the software
> manager, where ppl search for and install software -- frequently
> they want to search for and install something else after they've
> installed one thing

My comment was regarding YOU (YaST Online Update) that is used for
patch updates, the other is YaST Software Management which can be
configured different then default.

> sc

--
Regards, Rajko
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

Basil Chupin-2
In reply to this post by Ken Schneider - openSUSE
On 14/03/12 23:59, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:

> On 03/13/12 23:03, Basil Chupin pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
>> On 14/03/12 13:53, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> On 2012-03-14 03:44, Basil Chupin wrote:
>>>> Thanks Carlos - I just made the alteration.
>>> I was "summary".
>>>
>>>> This previously was the default (to 'restart') I am sure so I don't
>>>> understand why this has been changed......
>>> The action time ago was a kind of summary or dialog, exit or restart
>>> (non
>>> configurable).
>>> Then it was changed to "exit", and no possibility to change.
>>> This started a big discussion, in the factory mail list IIRC, and the
>>> current status was made: it is now configurable. The variable by
>>> default is
>>> empty, default action "close". Some argued that the default be
>>> changed to
>>> "summary", but it has not changed.
>>
>> I haven't looked at 12.1 because I've been using Milestone#1 of 12.2 for
>> days now and here the parameter is not remed out and is not empty but
>> has "close" as the entry. I changed this to "restart".
>>
>> BC
>>
>
>
> If you use "summary" you then have the option of all three,
>
> close-return-look at summary

Thanks Ken. I will try this out shortly.

BC


--
The vulgar crowd always is taken by appearances, and the world consists chiefly of the vulgar.
                    Niccolo Machiavelli

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

LLLActive@GMX.Net
> On 14/03/12 23:59, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
>> On 03/13/12 23:03, Basil Chupin pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
>>> On 14/03/12 13:53, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>
>>>> On 2012-03-14 03:44, Basil Chupin wrote:
>>>>> Thanks Carlos - I just made the alteration.
>>>> I was "summary".
>>>>
>>>>> This previously was the default (to 'restart') I am sure so I don't
>>>>> understand why this has been changed......
>>>> The action time ago was a kind of summary or dialog, exit or
>>>> restart (non
>>>> configurable).
>>>> Then it was changed to "exit", and no possibility to change.
>>>> This started a big discussion, in the factory mail list IIRC, and the
>>>> current status was made: it is now configurable. The variable by
>>>> default is
>>>> empty, default action "close". Some argued that the default be
>>>> changed to
>>>> "summary", but it has not changed.
>>>
>>> I haven't looked at 12.1 because I've been using Milestone#1 of 12.2
>>> for
>>> days now and here the parameter is not remed out and is not empty but
>>> has "close" as the entry. I changed this to "restart".
>>>
>>> BC
>>>
>>
>>
>> If you use "summary" you then have the option of all three,
>>
>> close-return-look at summary
>
> Thanks Ken. I will try this out shortly.
>
> BC
>
>
Why not "summary" as default?; then 'normal users' do not have to use
CLI (again) to allow all options.

Remember the intended user; we are the exception when we continually
play around with the CLI (which I admit is much more fun for geeks).

Could there eventually be an attitude to get openSUSE into a normal user
market, or will it be kept for 'geeks only'?     "geez --endrant".

.oOOo.
Dreiel

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

Lars Müller
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 02:50:01PM +0100, [hidden email] wrote:
[ 8< ] superfluous full quote pruned
> Why not "summary" as default?; then 'normal users' do not have to
> use CLI (again) to allow all options.

Check this mail thread.  There had been reason to stay with the current
default.

In the past a summary got displayed.  There had been valid reasons
against this.  While a summary is still an available option.  See
/etc/sysconfig/yast2:PKGMGR_ACTION_AT_EXIT and the comments above.

To modify the configuration a user isn't forced to use the command line
or an editor at all.  All you need is to call the YaST sysconfig editor.

> Remember the intended user; we are the exception when we continually
> play around with the CLI (which I admit is much more fun for geeks).
>
> Could there eventually be an attitude to get openSUSE into a normal
> user market, or will it be kept for 'geeks only'?     "geez
> --endrant".

What's a normal user?  you, me, who?

I consider the current default ok.  It return to the point where the
user started the journey.

Thanks,

Lars
--
Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ]
Samba Team
SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

attachment0 (197 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

Clayton-29
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 15:11, Lars Müller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I consider the current default ok.  It return to the point where the
> user started the journey.

Apparently you haven't had to field calls from confused beginner users
who are wondering what they did wrong after installing an application.

100% of the people I assist with migrating to Linux/openSUSE are
confused by the current default.  Not some.. all.

Experienced users don't have a problem with the current default... and
experienced users can use CLI or the YaST tools to change the obscure
options to change the behavior.. but in that process, we loose sight
of the fact that there is a huge number of users that are not on the
mailing lists and forums who rely on their neighborhood "expert" to
guide them through the maze.

This one issue I see over and over... "why did my software installer
disappear?" or... "why do I always have to restart the software
installer?"

C.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

Lars Müller
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 03:21:19PM +0100, C wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 15:11, Lars Müller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I consider the current default ok.  It return to the point where the
> > user started the journey.
>
> Apparently you haven't had to field calls from confused beginner users
> who are wondering what they did wrong after installing an application.

Beginning users I'm not allowing to call YaST at all.  They even don't
know that the user with the most power is named root.

And believe me, they even don't care about this at all.

> 100% of the people I assist with migrating to Linux/openSUSE are
> confused by the current default.  Not some.. all.

Well, if they're root on their box, then it's quite eady to change the
default.  It's possible from the GUI which you call obscure.  Well, your
point of view.

> Experienced users don't have a problem with the current default... and
> experienced users can use CLI or the YaST tools to change the obscure
> options to change the behavior.. but in that process, we loose sight
> of the fact that there is a huge number of users that are not on the
> mailing lists and forums who rely on their neighborhood "expert" to
> guide them through the maze.

Is there an article in the wiki maybe?  No, I'm not going to check this.
My bug list is long and more pressing issues are waiting.

> This one issue I see over and over... "why did my software installer
> disappear?" or... "why do I always have to restart the software
> installer?"

If that's the case feel free to feed https://features.openSUSE.org/  If
non has done this in the past.  As I don't care you'll neither get a
plus or minus from me.

Best is you branch YaST, change the default and start to smack the YaST
devs around.  I expect they'll love you. :)

Cheers,

Lars
--
Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ]
Samba Team
SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

attachment0 (197 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

Clayton-29
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 15:34, Lars Müller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Apparently you haven't had to field calls from confused beginner users
>> who are wondering what they did wrong after installing an application.
>
> Beginning users I'm not allowing to call YaST at all.  They even don't
> know that the user with the most power is named root.

So, you support them every single time they want to update? and add an
application?  Can I give my "users" your phone number?  I field
support for users in Australia, Canada, USA, Germany, Netherlands,
Sweden and and and.. (I've got friends scattered all over the place)

They don't know they have root for the most part.. they know that if
they want to add an application, they use their user password.


> Well, if they're root on their box, then it's quite eady to change the
> default.  It's possible from the GUI which you call obscure.  Well, your
> point of view.

You (as in experienced users, not you specifically) are used to and
comfortable with the YaST tools for editing system configurations...
they are not.. to say "just go change the option" is silly... you
don't tell a user to go tweak their Windows Registry any more than you
tell these same users to go twiddle the oepnSUSE system
configurations.  That's a "stay away from there or you might break it"
place.


>> This one issue I see over and over... "why did my software installer
>> disappear?" or... "why do I always have to restart the software
>> installer?"
>
> If that's the case feel free to feed https://features.openSUSE.org/  If
> non has done this in the past.  As I don't care you'll neither get a
> plus or minus from me.
>
> Best is you branch YaST, change the default and start to smack the YaST
> devs around.  I expect they'll love you. :)

I'm not going to branch YaST... like you.. limited time.

This was discusses ad-nasueum when the change was made.  The reasons
for making the change make sense for experienced users and don't make
sense for in-experienced users.... but that fact was railroaded over
during the discussion.

One thing that was requested back during the horse flogging was that
there be an option added to the software manager... nothing ever came
of it because people are understandably busy.  So in the end, the
default was changed to what makes sense for experienced users.... and
the rest of use are left standing there trying to explain to Joe and
Jane User how to navigate the scary sysconfig applet in YaST.

I'm not asking for a change now.. just trying to point out that in
some of what we do here in the project we forget the end user... this
is one prime example.  We made a change to a default that may not have
been the best one - depending on who your user is... an experienced
developer and long time Linux user, or someone who is making their
first steps into Linux... or doesn't know enough to be confident
enough to poke the dragon lurking under the surface of their KDE or
Gnome (or LXDE ect etc) desktop

C.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

Per Jessen-2
C wrote:

> I'm not asking for a change now.. just trying to point out that in
> some of what we do here in the project we forget the end user...

+1.

Wouldn't it be nice with an option on the first YaST window:

Please indicate user experience level

1) beginner
2) experienced
3) professional

Having the information would at least mean module writers could take it
into account when choosing defaults and options.  

Sorry, I don't have any time to write this either. :-(


--
Per Jessen, Zürich (16.8°C)

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

Lars Müller
In reply to this post by Clayton-29
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 03:50:12PM +0100, C wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 15:34, Lars Müller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Apparently you haven't had to field calls from confused beginner users
> >> who are wondering what they did wrong after installing an application.
> >
> > Beginning users I'm not allowing to call YaST at all.  They even don't
> > know that the user with the most power is named root.
>
> So, you support them every single time they want to update?

No.  I enabled automatic updates.  Yes, that works quite well.

> and add an application?

They all are getting a default KDE install.  If that doesn't offer all
they need - what do people need these days more than a web browser? - I
file bug reports or feature requests.

> Can I give my "users" your phone number?  I field
> support for users in Australia, Canada, USA, Germany, Netherlands,
> Sweden and and and.. (I've got friends scattered all over the place)

If you pay enough then I'm going to do this.  Sure.  While being a cheap
boy in general for such SM fun I'm taking a lot per hour. ;)

> They don't know they have root for the most part.. they know that if
> they want to add an application, they use their user password.

If that works for you.  Well, then it works.

> > Well, if they're root on their box, then it's quite eady to change the
> > default.  It's possible from the GUI which you call obscure.  Well, your
> > point of view.
>
> You (as in experienced users, not you specifically) are used to and
> comfortable with the YaST tools for editing system configurations...
> they are not.. to say "just go change the option" is silly... you
> don't tell a user to go tweak their Windows Registry any more than you
> tell these same users to go twiddle the oepnSUSE system
> configurations.  That's a "stay away from there or you might break it"
> place.
a) The YaST sysconfig editor is less terrible than modifing the registry
of Microsoft products.

b) They have to do this _one_ time.

Call this two commands and be happy.

/usr/sbin/sysconf_addword -r /etc/sysconfig/yast2 PKGMGR_ACTION_AT_EXIT close
/usr/sbin/sysconf_addword /etc/sysconfig/yast2 PKGMGR_ACTION_AT_EXIT summary

If you consider this approach sucking lame goto the
file_a_feature_request section of this thread.

> >> This one issue I see over and over... "why did my software installer
> >> disappear?" or... "why do I always have to restart the software
> >> installer?"
> >
> > If that's the case feel free to feed https://features.openSUSE.org/  If
> > non has done this in the past.  As I don't care you'll neither get a
> > plus or minus from me.
> >
> > Best is you branch YaST, change the default and start to smack the YaST
> > devs around.  I expect they'll love you. :)
>
> I'm not going to branch YaST... like you.. limited time.
All our time is limited.  That's why I consider no longer to watse it on
this kind of threads.  The outcome is at the end a bit to small
compared to the invested time.

> This was discusses ad-nasueum when the change was made.  The reasons
> for making the change make sense for experienced users and don't make
> sense for in-experienced users.... but that fact was railroaded over
> during the discussion.

Thanks for the pointer to the archive of the discussion!  Is this some
kind of argument hiding or are you this busy?

> One thing that was requested back during the horse flogging was that
> there be an option added to the software manager... nothing ever came
> of it because people are understandably busy.  So in the end, the
> default was changed to what makes sense for experienced users....

The current approach makes even sense to the beginner user.  They
install a package and that's it.  There are arguments to both approaches
for beginners and advanced users.

> and
> the rest of use are left standing there trying to explain to Joe and
> Jane User how to navigate the scary sysconfig applet in YaST.

Yeah, I see you standing there one hour each week to explain your users
again and again how hard the YaST developers are making it to you. ;)

Hey, how about coming to the next openSUSE conference and you and me we
smack them all as hard as possible?

> I'm not asking for a change now.. just trying to point out that in
> some of what we do here in the project we forget the end user... this
> is one prime example.  We made a change to a default that may not have
> been the best one - depending on who your user is... an experienced
> developer and long time Linux user, or someone who is making their
> first steps into Linux... or doesn't know enough to be confident
> enough to poke the dragon lurking under the surface of their KDE or
> Gnome (or LXDE ect etc) desktop

Instead of wrinting the reply you could have filed the feature request,
branched the YaST code, brewed me a fresh coffe or tea, cleaned your
flat or even better mine.

But a reply to the list is much more fun. Well, then the YaST software
installer stays how it is.  Till the pain is big enough to anyone else.

Yours look quite small right now.  And mine if for this topic not even
existing.

On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 04:27:35PM +0100, Per Jessen wrote:

> C wrote:
>
> > I'm not asking for a change now.. just trying to point out that in
> > some of what we do here in the project we forget the end user...
>
> +1.
>
> Wouldn't it be nice with an option on the first YaST window:
>
> Please indicate user experience level
>
> 1) beginner
> 2) experienced
> 3) professional
>
> Having the information would at least mean module writers could take
> it
> into account when choosing defaults and options.
Any additional question while the install contradicts the intention of
the initial issue presented as part of this thread.  Making is easier to
beginners.

> Sorry, I don't have any time to write this either. :-(

But you have the time to follow this discussion and reply.  Strange.

Cheers,

Lars
--
Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ]
Samba Team
SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

attachment0 (197 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Software Manager (YaST2) - a question about its behaviour

LLLActive@GMX.Net
In reply to this post by Lars Müller
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 02:50:01PM +0100,[hidden email]  wrote:
> [ 8<  ] superfluous full quote pruned
>> >  Why not "summary" as default?; then 'normal users' do not have to
>> >  use CLI (again) to allow all options.
> Check this mail thread.  There had been reason to stay with the current
> default.
>
> What's a normal user?  you, me, who?
>
> I consider the current default ok.
> __________

Maybe I did not make my point succinctly enough. The technical solution
here is not the point ...

Starting as a young dev engineer in TV broadcasting aeons ago, there was
often the comment from the engineer to a colleague, about the video
producers and sound techs, "I know how it works best, they get what I
can design best". This is mostly the incompetent, but technically
genial, engineer that whats to decide what is best for the user. Over
the years with the right amount of maturity, this way of 'believing' is
forced to change. Users just use something else ... simple. Pity. Sigh.

.oOOo.
Dreiel



--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

12