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Sick of this...

James Hatridge
Hi all,

Is it not about time for this mailing list to come in to the 21th century?
This is the ONLY email list that I have to turn off HTML formatting to send a
post to. Everytime I forget it I get this:

######
Hi, this is the mlmmj program managing the mailinglist

[hidden email]

I'm sorry to inform you that your message could not be delivered to the
list. Your mail was rejected because it matched a rule set up by the
list administrator.

This list does not allow:

* HTML mails
* Attachments
* Mails from other lists

If you think your mail does not violate these rules and was declined anyway,
contact the owner at:

[hidden email]

##################

Personally I'm sick of always having to send posts twice. How about fixing
this.


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Re: Sick of this...

Ken Schneider - openSUSE
On 07/06/12 09:06, James Hatridge pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Is it not about time for this mailing list to come in to the 21th century?
> This is the ONLY email list that I have to turn off HTML formatting to send a
> post to. Everytime I forget it I get this:
>
> ######
> Hi, this is the mlmmj program managing the mailinglist
>
> [hidden email]
>
> I'm sorry to inform you that your message could not be delivered to the
> list. Your mail was rejected because it matched a rule set up by the
> list administrator.
>
> This list does not allow:
>
> * HTML mails
> * Attachments
> * Mails from other lists
>
> If you think your mail does not violate these rules and was declined anyway,
> contact the owner at:
>
> [hidden email]
>
> ##################
>
> Personally I'm sick of always having to send posts twice. How about fixing
> this.
>
>
That is the way this list has always been and always will be.

I also find your signature quite offensive. Would you please stop using
it on this list.

--
Ken Schneider
SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998


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Re: Sick of this...

Billie Walsh
In reply to this post by James Hatridge
On 07/06/2012 08:06 AM, James Hatridge wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Is it not about time for this mailing list to come in to the 21th century?
> This is the ONLY email list that I have to turn off HTML formatting to send a
> post to. Everytime I forget it I get this:

<snip>

> Personally I'm sick of always having to send posts twice. How about fixing
> this.
>
>

Well, there's one sure fire way to fix it. Turn off HTML in your email
program. That's what most people do.

Most of the email lists I'm on do not accept HTML. It's a security issue.

--
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the  people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the
government lest it come to dominate our lives and interests”.

- Patrick  Henry -


_ _...  ..._ _
_._  ._  .....  ._..  ...  .._


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Re: Sick of this...

Per Jessen
In reply to this post by James Hatridge
James Hatridge wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Is it not about time for this mailing list to come in to the 21th
> century? This is the ONLY email list that I have to turn off HTML
> formatting to send a post to. Everytime I forget it I get this:
>

Depending on which emailer you're using, you ought to store that as a
preference of the email-address (of the list).  Thunderbird has such an
option.



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Re: Sick of this...

Felix Miata-3
In reply to this post by James Hatridge
On 2012/07/06 15:06 (GMT+0200) James Hatridge composed:

> Is it not about time for this mailing list to come in to the 21th century?
> This is the ONLY email list that I have to turn off HTML formatting to send a
> post to....
> Personally I'm sick of always having to send posts twice. How about fixing
> this.

It isn't broken. "HTML email" isn't email, it's web pages and all their
associated wasteful and annoying overhead delivered via smtp. Those things
arriving here via filtering are diverted into my bit bucket unread. When I
want to view a web page, I'll open it in a web browser, not an email app.

http://fm.no-ip.com/Inet/htmlemail.html explains more.
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

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Re: Sick of this...

Patrick Shanahan-2
In reply to this post by James Hatridge
* James Hatridge <[hidden email]> [07-06-12 09:10]:
> Is it not about time for this mailing list to come in to the 21th century?
> This is the ONLY email list that I have to turn off HTML formatting to send a
> post to. Everytime I forget it I get this:

welcome to the *normal* world of text vs pretty pictures.  Perhaps you
would perfer "Dick and Jane".

> Personally I'm sick of always having to send posts twice. How about fixing
> this.

Learn to control your *chosen* email client.

It is as it was/should be.  Please remove your offensive sig.

--
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Re: Sick of this...

James Knott
In reply to this post by James Hatridge
James Hatridge wrote:
> Is it not about time for this mailing list to come in to the 21th century?
> This is the ONLY email list that I have to turn off HTML formatting to send a
> post to. Everytime I forget it I get this:

Is it not possible to set the format in your address book?

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Re: Re: Sick of this...

James Hatridge
In reply to this post by Ken Schneider - openSUSE
On Friday, July 06, 2012 09:22:59 AM Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:

> I also find your signature quite offensive. Would you please stop using
> it on this list.

No
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Re: Sick of this...

Clayton-29
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan-2
On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Patrick Shanahan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> It is as it was/should be.  Please remove your offensive sig.

Not that I care one bit about anyone's signature lines... but if
anyone here bothered to go check out James' website instead of having
a mindless knee-jerk reaction... you'd clearly see it's nothing to be
offended about (a collection of stamps and postcards from WWI, WWII,
the Cold War era and so on). You are all being rather silly about
this.

C.
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Re: Sick of this...

Anton Aylward-2
In reply to this post by Billie Walsh
Billie Walsh said the following on 07/06/2012 09:25 AM:
> Most of the email lists I'm on do not accept HTML. It's a security issue.

+1

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Re: Sick of this...

Oddball
In reply to this post by Clayton-29
Op 06-07-12 16:09, C schreef:

> On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Patrick Shanahan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> It is as it was/should be.  Please remove your offensive sig.
> Not that I care one bit about anyone's signature lines... but if
> anyone here bothered to go check out James' website instead of having
> a mindless knee-jerk reaction... you'd clearly see it's nothing to be
> offended about (a collection of stamps and postcards from WWI, WWII,
> the Cold War era and so on). You are all being rather silly about
> this.
>
> C.

Yes i agree, i think it is a rather rare collection!
I think it is good these things are remembered...

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Re: Re: [opensuse] Sick of this...

James Hatridge
In reply to this post by Per Jessen
Hi Per,

On Friday, July 06, 2012 03:32:19 PM Per Jessen wrote:

> James Hatridge wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Is it not about time for this mailing list to come in to the 21th
> > century? This is the ONLY email list that I have to turn off HTML
>
> > formatting to send a post to. Everytime I forget it I get this:
> Depending on which emailer you're using, you ought to store that as a
> preference of the email-address (of the list).  Thunderbird has such an
> option.

So far you're the only one to give a real answer to this, thanks for that. Do
you know if kmail has this option? I've not been able to find it. But this
still bring us back to the first question. Why does this list not keep up with
the times. Ten years ago, when almost no one had anything faster than 56k then
it was understandable. But now even someone one out in the middle of no where
Germany has at least DSL 2000 so this rule is silly. I'm on over 60 lists and
am the owner of 4. This is the only list I have this problem with.

JIM

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Yankee GO HOME!
Anti-US Propaganda on stamps, postcards, envelopes, and labels
http://yankeegohome.18-t.com/

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Re: Sick of this...

Anton Aylward-2
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan-2
Patrick Shanahan said the following on 07/06/2012 09:56 AM:
> Learn to control your *chosen* email client.

+1

I see
<quote>
User-Agent: KMail/4.7.2 (Linux/3.1.9-1.4-desktop; KDE/4.7.2; x86_64; ; )
</quote>

The KMail handbook
docs.kde.org/stable/en/kdepim/kmail/kmail.pdf
does say in section 3.3

<quote>
Note that HTML messages are often regarded as an annoyance; therefore,
you should avoid sending HTML messages if possible. Particularly, you
should never send HTML messages to a mailing list unless HTML messages
are explicitly allowed.
</quote>

More to the point, the rest of that section makes it clear that you have
to explicitly set things up to send HTML mail:

<quote>
In order to be able to create HTML messages you first have to enable the
markup tools. To do this enable Formatting (HTML) in the Options menu.
</quote>

From this I gather that HTML is not the normal mode.

> It is as it was/should be.  Please remove your offensive sig.

Ethnic hate, unless its being parodied (which I must admit is not always
successful in email, though Dave Barry seems to manage it - sometimes)
is not acceptable.


--
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Re: Re: [opensuse] Sick of this...

Per Jessen
In reply to this post by James Hatridge
James Hatridge wrote:

> Hi Per,
>
> On Friday, July 06, 2012 03:32:19 PM Per Jessen wrote:
>> James Hatridge wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > Is it not about time for this mailing list to come in to the 21th
>> > century? This is the ONLY email list that I have to turn off HTML
>>
>> > formatting to send a post to. Everytime I forget it I get this:
>> Depending on which emailer you're using, you ought to store that as a
>> preference of the email-address (of the list).  Thunderbird has such
>> an option.
>
> So far you're the only one to give a real answer to this, thanks for
> that. Do you know if kmail has this option? I've not been able to find
> it.

Hi Jim

I did notice later that you're using kmail, but I don't know if kmail
has that option. It really should be an option in the address book.

> But this still bring us back to the first question. Why does this
> list not keep up with the times. Ten years ago, when almost no one had
> anything faster than 56k then it was understandable. But now even
> someone one out in the middle of no where Germany has at least DSL
> 2000 so this rule is silly. I'm on over 60 lists and am the owner of
> 4. This is the only list I have this problem with.

I would tend to agree that banning HTML _is_ silly, but it's not
something I feel strongly about either way.  I never use HTML for
personal mail.



--
Per Jessen, Zürich (21.0°C)

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Re: Sick of this...

Per Jessen
In reply to this post by Clayton-29
C wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Patrick Shanahan <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> It is as it was/should be.  Please remove your offensive sig.
>
> Not that I care one bit about anyone's signature lines... but if
> anyone here bothered to go check out James' website instead of having
> a mindless knee-jerk reaction... you'd clearly see it's nothing to be
> offended about (a collection of stamps and postcards from WWI, WWII,
> the Cold War era and so on). You are all being rather silly about
> this.

+1


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Re: Re: [opensuse] Sick of this...

Arun Khan-3
In reply to this post by James Hatridge
On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 7:58 PM, James Hatridge <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So far you're the only one to give a real answer to this, thanks for that. Do
> you know if kmail has this option? I've not been able to find it. But this
> still bring us back to the first question. Why does this list not keep up with
> the times.

Please read the responses on this issue.    The mailing list programs
are not behind times.   Text only mode is the setting.  This is true
for *all* FOSS technical mailing lists that I am a member (openSUSE,
CentOS, Debian, bridge-utils, linux-kvm, openwrt, zeroshell, voyage
linux ......)

It has nothing to do with cheaper storage and/or faster bandwidth.

Whereas, HTML formatted messages are the norm in Web forums and you
will hardly see any pure text based discussions and that is OK for Web
forum as you view them in your web browser.

> Ten years ago, when almost no one had anything faster than 56k then
> it was understandable. But now even someone one out in the middle of no where
> Germany has at least DSL 2000 so this rule is silly. I'm on over 60 lists and
> am the owner of 4. This is the only list I have this problem with.

Not true Please see above.

A counter point about your net connectivity speeds - in many
developing nations the speeds that you are talking about is not even
within the reach of enterprises or at very hefty price.  In some
nations even a dial up connection is the luxury of a few and their
bandwidht is *metered*.

Now imagine your **HTML rich** message getting loading into his/her
mailbox.   First of all it takes time and secondly his/her usage gets
counted for every useless character of the HTML formatted message that
goes into the mailbox.

Therefore, plain text messages is the most suitable denominator IMO.

Email/SMTP was meant for plain text.   HTML formatted messages get
encoded and sent as MIME attachment.   It is true that most email
clients have can handle this and decode the MIME attachment into your
*rich* presentation format.

And yes, KMail can be configured to send HTML or plain text depending
on the recipient.   I don't have it front of me but look around the
settings section.

My two cents.

-- Arun Khan
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Re: readers of this list (was: Sick of this...)

Felix Miata-3
In reply to this post by Felix Miata-3
On 2012/07/06 09:33 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed:

> On 2012/07/06 15:06 (GMT+0200) James Hatridge composed:

>>  Is it not about time for this mailing list to come in to the 21th century?
>>  This is the ONLY email list that I have to turn off HTML formatting to send a
>>  post to....
>>  Personally I'm sick of always having to send posts twice. How about fixing
>>  this.

> It isn't broken. "HTML email" isn't email, it's web pages and all their
> associated wasteful and annoying overhead delivered via smtp. Those things
> arriving here via filtering are diverted into my bit bucket unread. When I
> want to view a web page, I'll open it in a web browser, not an email app.

> http://fm.no-ip.com/Inet/htmlemail.html explains more.

It's disappointing how this list gets read if the following sample of page hits to the above URL is any guide. The first two came from Windows, the next from Mac, and only then 6 from Linux.

...8.202 - - [06/Jul/2012:09:33:48 -0400] "GET /Inet/htmlemail.html HTTP/1.1" 200 8447 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; InfoPath.2; MS-RTC LM 8)"
...0.240 - - [06/Jul/2012:09:35:33 -0400] "GET /Inet/htmlemail.html HTTP/1.1" 200 8447 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)"
...9.74 - - [06/Jul/2012:09:39:07 -0400] "GET /Inet/htmlemail.html HTTP/1.0" 200 8447 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_4) AppleWebKit/534.57.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.7 Safari/534.57.2"
...2.57 - - [06/Jul/2012:09:47:05 -0400] "GET /Inet/htmlemail.html HTTP/1.1" 200 8447 "http://zimbra.corpdata.co.uk/zimbra/" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/13.0"
...2.89 - - [06/Jul/2012:09:48:15 -0400] "GET /Inet/htmlemail.html HTTP/1.1" 200 8447 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/13.0"
...2.127 - - [06/Jul/2012:10:03:30 -0400] "GET /Inet/htmlemail.html HTTP/1.1" 200 8447 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120604 Firefox/13.0 SeaMonkey/2.10 Lightning/1.5.1"
...0.16 - - [06/Jul/2012:10:07:12 -0400] "GET /Inet/htmlemail.html HTTP/1.1" 200 8447 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux x86_64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/13.0.1"
...4.166 - - [06/Jul/2012:10:09:53 -0400] "GET /Inet/htmlemail.html HTTP/1.1" 200 8447 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:13.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/13.0"
...2.171 - - [06/Jul/2012:10:33:17 -0400] "GET /Inet/htmlemail.html HTTP/1.1" 200 8447 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:12.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/12.0"
...2.127 - - [06/Jul/2012:10:48:07 -0400] "GET /Inet/htmlemail.html HTTP/1.1" 200 8447 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120604 Firefox/13.0 SeaMonkey/2.10 Lightning/1.5.1"
--
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words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: Sick of this...

ianseeks
In reply to this post by James Hatridge
On Friday 06 Jul 2012 16:28:01 James Hatridge wrote:

> Hi Per,
>
> On Friday, July 06, 2012 03:32:19 PM Per Jessen wrote:
> > James Hatridge wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Is it not about time for this mailing list to come in to the 21th
> > > century? This is the ONLY email list that I have to turn off HTML
> >
> > > formatting to send a post to. Everytime I forget it I get this:
> > Depending on which emailer you're using, you ought to store that as a
> > preference of the email-address (of the list).  Thunderbird has such an
> > option.
>
> So far you're the only one to give a real answer to this, thanks for that.

There are 3 "real" answers
1. security
2. security
3. and finally security.

> Do you know if kmail has this option? I've not been able to find it. But
> this still bring us back to the first question. Why does this list not keep
> up with the times. Ten years ago, when almost no one had anything faster
> than 56k then it was understandable. But now even someone one out in the
> middle of no where Germany has at least DSL 2000 so this rule is silly. I'm
> on over 60 lists and am the owner of 4. This is the only list I have this
> problem with.
>
> JIM
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Re: Sick of this...

Mike-207
In reply to this post by James Hatridge
On Friday, July 06, 2012 08:28:01 AM James Hatridge wrote:

> Hi Per,
>
> On Friday, July 06, 2012 03:32:19 PM Per Jessen wrote:
> > James Hatridge wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Is it not about time for this mailing list to come in to the 21th
> > > century? This is the ONLY email list that I have to turn off HTML
> >
> > > formatting to send a post to. Everytime I forget it I get this:
> > Depending on which emailer you're using, you ought to store that as a
> > preference of the email-address (of the list).  Thunderbird has such an
> > option.
>
> So far you're the only one to give a real answer to this, thanks for that.
> Do you know if kmail has this option? I've not been able to find it. But
> this still bring us back to the first question. Why does this list not
> keep up with the times. Ten years ago, when almost no one had anything
> faster than 56k then it was understandable. But now even someone one out
> in the middle of no where Germany has at least DSL 2000 so this rule is
> silly. I'm on over 60 lists and am the owner of 4. This is the only list I
> have this problem with.
>
> JIM
I disagree. I could care less about pretty. That's all that HTML brings to the
stage. Content is much more important. html gets sent right to the bit bucket.

Mike
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Re: Sick of this...

Will Stephenson-2
In reply to this post by James Hatridge
On Friday 06 Jul 2012 16:28:01 James Hatridge wrote:
> So far you're the only one to give a real answer to this, thanks for that.
> Do you know if kmail has this option? I've not been able to find it. But
> this still bring us back to the first question. Why does this list not keep
> up with the times. Ten years ago, when almost no one had anything faster
> than 56k then it was understandable. But now even someone one out in the
> middle of no where Germany has at least DSL 2000 so this rule is silly. I'm
> on over 60 lists and am the owner of 4. This is the only list I have this
> problem with.

See http://sudhendu.in/node/13

It's not as simple as setting it as a flag on a mailing list 'contact' - you
have to set it in the reply template for particular user identities or mail
folders.  

Some of us have no choice but to correspond with people who would,
unfortunately, view us as cranks if we did not reply in HTML with TOFU...

Will

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SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284
(AG Nürnberg)
Maxfeldstraße 5                        
90409 Nürnberg
Germany
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