SPAM: unsubcribe

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SPAM: unsubcribe

TheNice Spider
 

 
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
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Re: SPAM: unsubcribe

Erik Jakobsen-2
The Nice Spider wrote:

>  
>
>  
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
>  Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: 05-08-2006
>  
Hi.

As repeated thousands of timesYOU have the responsibilty to unsubscribe,
and YOU are the only one, that can do it.
At the bottom of ALL mails here you see this, and please follow it:

"--

Check the headers for your *unsubscription* address
For additional commands send e-mail to [hidden email]
Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com
Please read the FAQs: [hidden email]"

Erik Jakobsen


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Re: SPAM: unsubcribe

Peter Sutter
On Tuesday 08 August 2006 14:50, Erik Jakobsen wrote:

> The Nice Spider wrote:
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> >  Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date:
> > 05-08-2006
>
> Hi.
>
> As repeated thousands of timesYOU have the responsibilty to unsubscribe,
> and YOU are the only one, that can do it.
> At the bottom of ALL mails here you see this, and please follow it:

I am utterly amused about this unsubscribe business in this list. What amuses
me even more, is the reaction of some list members to these unsubscribe
requests.

I am subscribed to to a number of mailing lists. To unsubscribe, all but one
require an empty message with unsubscribe as the subject line, so I do not
actually lay the blame to the subscribers, but the list maintainers.

As a matter of fact:
1. by deviating from a 'de-facto' standard, the list maintainers are asking
for this problem.
2. users do not read manuals, instructions, footers or anything printed,
written, as a matter of principle.
3. users are always right. So if something does not work as they think it
should, we, as IT professionals, have a duty to adapt the software
accordingly.

And a bit of advise for unsubscribe candidates:
In the following is an alternative way to unsubscribe, just put

:0
*^From:.*[hidden email]
/dev/null
as one of the first statements in /etc/procmailrc of your mailserver

But ...

Please leave it as it is as it gives me some highlights during the day.

Peter

>
> "--
>
> Check the headers for your *unsubscription* address
> For additional commands send e-mail to [hidden email]
> Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com
> Please read the FAQs: [hidden email]"
>
> Erik Jakobsen

--
Check the headers for your unsubscription address
For additional commands send e-mail to [hidden email]
Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com
Please read the FAQs: [hidden email]


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Re: SPAM: unsubcribe

David SMITH-4
On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 04:07:52PM +0800, Peter Sutter wrote:
> I am subscribed to to a number of mailing lists. To unsubscribe, all but one
> require an empty message with unsubscribe as the subject line, so I do not
> actually lay the blame to the subscribers, but the list maintainers.
>
> As a matter of fact:

s/fact/opinion/

> 1. by deviating from a 'de-facto' standard, the list maintainers are asking
> for this problem.

This is not a "'de-facto' standard".  At least three of the most
commonly-used mailing list managers (majordomo, mailman, ezmlm) do not
use this "standard".  In fact, I'd go as far as saying that the mailing
lists which *do* follow this "standard" are in the minority, certainly in
the UNIX world.  You appear to have been "lucky" in the lists that you've
picked.

> 2. users do not read manuals, instructions, footers or anything printed,
> written, as a matter of principle.

And therefore they deserve to be told to RTFM.

> 3. users are always right. So if something does not work as they think it
> should, we, as IT professionals, have a duty to adapt the software
> accordingly.

No, because not there is not always a common agreement on "how it should
work".  Reply-To: is a good example of this.

> :0
> *^From:.*[hidden email]
> /dev/null
> as one of the first statements in /etc/procmailrc of your mailserver

Great.  Leave more load on SuSE's mailserver.

Alternatively, read the header *OR* footer, use your brain for once, and
learn to unsubscribe yourself properly.  It's not difficult.

--
David Smith        | Tel: +44 (0)1454 462380    Home: +44 (0)1454 616963
STMicroelectronics | Fax: +44 (0)1454 462305  Mobile: +44 (0)7932 642724
1000 Aztec West    | TINA: 065 2380          GPG Key: 0xF13192F2
Almondsbury        | Work Email: [hidden email]
BRISTOL, BS32 4SQ  | Home Email: [hidden email]

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Re: SPAM: unsubcribe

David SMITH-4
In reply to this post by TheNice Spider
On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 05:48:34PM -0700, The Nice Spider wrote:

> > This is not a "'de-facto' standard".  At least three
> of the most
> > commonly-used mailing list managers (majordomo,
> mailman, ezmlm) do not
> > use this "standard".  In fact, I'd go as far as
> saying that the mailing
> > lists which *do* follow this "standard" are in the
> minority, certainly in
> > the UNIX world.  You appear to have been "lucky" in
> the lists that you've
> > picked.
> >
> yes. this is 'de-facto' standard. the most popular
> mailing list is yahoo
> groups, then here the 'de-facto' standard

Ah, so I see.  Just because ONE mailing list manager does it, that means
its a "de-facto standard"?  Rubbish.

Here's a wake-up call.  Yahoo! Groups is NOT the most commonly used mailing
list manager in the UNIX world.  Most of them run on majordomo or mailman,
and majordomo was around a long time before Yahoo! Groups.  So it's
actually Yahoo! who are deviating from the "standard".

I would also question whether Yahoo! Groups is the most commonly used MLM
overall.  Remember, many companies use MLMs internally.

Just because Yahoo! Groups might be the most commonly used among "free,
general public interest" mailing lists, doesn't mean it's the most
commonly used overall.

Let's have a look at the mailing lists I'm on:

SuSE (SLE, suse-security):   ezmlm
gEDA:                        Mailman
IPCop (user, devel and cvs): Mailman
Local LUG:                   Mailman
Internal company:            Internally developed, used to be majordomo
This Is True:                Lyris
LDP:                         Mailman
Local Freecycle group:       Yahoo! Groups

Yep, quite obvious that Yahoo! Groups is the de-facto standard.

Go and join a few more Linux-related mailing lists, and you'll find that
virtually all of them are based on Mailman or (occasionally) Majordomo.

Yes, ezmlm is relatively uncommon, but lists which require unsubscription
messages to be sent somewhere other than the list address are not.

Majordomo and Mailman require them to be sent to <listname>-request@...

> > No, because not there is not always a common
> agreement on "how it should
> > work".  Reply-To: is a good example of this.
> >
> the maintener of this milist still retain his way
> which caused REPLY to the
> SENDER, not to the MILIST ADDRESS.

I'm not getting into a discussion on the rights and wrongs of this - it's
been done over and over and over again, and isn't going to change.  The
fact is that it is set that way for a reason, and you should respect that
decision if you want to use this service for which, after all, the list
owner is paying.

> > Alternatively, read the header *OR* footer, use your
> brain for once, and
> > learn to unsubscribe yourself properly.  It's not
> difficult.
>
> the maintener of this milist should learn and hear
> from users. please try to
> join yahoo groups, then you will understand what thing
> do in the way of this
> most popular mailing list, again the most popular is
> the 'de-facto' not
> 'de-jure'.

I'm in Yahoo! Groups on a couple of mailing lists.  It's a heap of
bovine excretia.  It's full of advertising, my details are repeatedly
spam-harvested, and if you lose your login details they're virtually
impossible to recover - you can't re-register as it prevents you because
it already knows your email address, it won't send you your password,
and the "help" section is an endless mass of circular links which never
end up in a "get help from a real person" link.

If Yahoo! Groups is an example of what mailing list managers should be
like, God help us.

> as you can see, this mailing list have stupid SPAM
> technology, which we see
> many message stamped as SPAM but they are not spam
> actually. too many
> negative-false of spam in this milist but it's depend
> on the maintener to
> hear users voice or force user to follow they way,
> makes this is not a
> suggestion but a choice: take it or leave it.

Fine.  Feel free to leave it.  Goodbye.

I do think there is a bit of a problem with the spam checking on this
list, but that's a completely separate issue.

> but i believe someday the
> maintener will see the 'de-facto' standard and follow
> this standard.

I hope not.

By your definition, Windows is the de-facto standard operating system,
and therefore everyone should be following that standard.  So, why are
you bothering with Linux?

--
David Smith            Work Email: [hidden email]
STMicroelectronics     Home Email: [hidden email]
Bristol, England          GPG Key: 0xF13192F2

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Re: the most commonly used mailing list manager?

Per Jessen
David SMITH wrote:

> Here's a wake-up call.  Yahoo! Groups is NOT the most commonly used
> mailing list manager in the UNIX world.  Most of them run on majordomo
> or mailman, and majordomo was around a long time before Yahoo! Groups.
> So it's actually Yahoo! who are deviating from the "standard".

Yahoo Groups used to be egroups.com and AFAICT, yahoo groups is actually
using ezmlm behind the scene, also a somewhat popular MLM.  And one
shouldn't forget the granddad of all MLMs - listserv, which is probably
still huffing and puffing somewhere.

> I would also question whether Yahoo! Groups is the most commonly used
> MLM overall.  Remember, many companies use MLMs internally.

Yeah, I think that's quite questionable too.  


/Per Jessen, Z├╝rich


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Re: SPAM: unsubcribe

Daniel Bauer
In reply to this post by David SMITH-4
> [...]

Sorry for cutting everything away :-)

But instead of talking about how or how not to unsubscribe, why not just
unsubscribe somebody if he/she doesn't understand how to do it?

on
http://www.suse.com/en/private/support/online_help/mailinglists/
I read:

  if your "FROM" address and the subscription address differ, please indicate
  your subscription address as follows:

    <LISTNAME>-unsubscribe-<YOUR ADDRESS>@suse.com
    replacing the "@" character in your address with "=" as in the example
    below:
    suse-linux-e-unsubscribe-me=[hidden email]

So my suggestion is: when it happens again that somebody sends his or her
unsibscription-wish to the list instead of actually unsubscribing, just send
a mail as descibed above with the details of the ignoramus. Then he/she will
get a confirmation e-mail, can hit reply and is out of the list.

I just think: if you're annoyed by the fact, that your in-box receives useless
usubscription-wishes, then what do you think that I feel receiving a whole
thread about this every few days?

So, next time somebody takes the wrong way to unsubscribe, *please* just send
him or her a private message or act as suggested above. OK?

thanks

Daniel

--
Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Switzerland
professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com
Madagascar special: http://www.sanic.ch

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Re: [Possible SPAM]Re: [SLE] SPAM: unsubcribe

David SMITH-4
On Wed, Aug 09, 2006 at 12:27:31PM +0200, Daniel Bauer wrote:
> Sorry for cutting everything away :-)

Ditto. ;-)

> But instead of talking about how or how not to unsubscribe, why not just
> unsubscribe somebody if he/she doesn't understand how to do it?

Give a man a fish....

--
David Smith            Work Email: [hidden email]
STMicroelectronics     Home Email: [hidden email]
Bristol, England          GPG Key: 0xF13192F2

--
Check the headers for your unsubscription address
For additional commands send e-mail to [hidden email]
Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com
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SPAM: Re: SPAM: unsubcribe

suse_gasjr4wd
In reply to this post by Daniel Bauer

On Aug 9, 2006, at 6:27 AM, Daniel Bauer wrote:

> But instead of talking about how or how not to unsubscribe, why not  
> just
> unsubscribe somebody if he/she doesn't understand how to do it?

'cause, last time I checked, only that individual can do it.  
Otherwise, I know a few people on other lists (and this one) I would  
like to get rid of.

;)


And we keep forgetting, they can't or wont follow directions.
They were told how to interact with the list when they signed up...

T,
G
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SPAM: Re: Re: [Possible SPAM]Re: [SLE] SPAM: unsubcribe

suse_gasjr4wd
In reply to this post by David SMITH-4

On Aug 9, 2006, at 7:09 AM, David SMITH wrote:

> Give a man a fish....

and he smells like a fish...

G