SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

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SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

John Andersen
From: http://blogs.sun.com/webmink/entry/the_morning_after

The word on the street is that Novell had some deep patent dirt on Microsoft
and went proudly to demand their bounty. Negotiations proceeded over several
months, and the result (hurriedly rescheduled to respond to Oracle) was
today's shindig in San Francisco.

So how was it that at the end of the day they ended up affirming software
patents (something Microsoft wants and Free software people hate), set a
precedent that open source distributors owe Microsoft money, slandered
GNU/Linux as derivative and encumbered, and much more? Novell is now safe in
the shade of a patent exchange and gets to talk about interoperability, a few
private developers have a protection they hadn't been worrying about much and
everyone else is left wondering if this means they are next for the visit
from the Redmond enforcement department
...

They went in seeking a huge payout, and emerged with the payout, yes - but
also with a commitment to pay it back in royalties on open source software
they sell.

------end-snip


That last bit is what I don't get.  Why does microsoft get royalties on open
source software.  Go to Novells page and read the agreement.


And, yes, Rob Unsworth did post that link first.  Hats off to Ron.
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OT Re: [SLE] SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

Steve Jeppesen
On Sat, 4 Nov 2006 00:37:01 -0900
John Andersen wrote:

> From: http://blogs.sun.com/webmink/entry/the_morning_after

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Re: SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

Darko Gavrilovic
In reply to this post by John Andersen
John Andersen wrote:
> That last bit is what I don't get.  Why does microsoft get royalties on open
> source software.
Bingo! It's too soon to tell. But something is going to change in the
future. As some have mentioned already, perhaps Samba will get pulled
and something else will replace it that "enhances" windows & linux
interoperatability. Just a wild hunch.

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Re: SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

Gordon R. Keehn
Darko Gavrilovic wrote:

> John Andersen wrote:
>  
>> That last bit is what I don't get.  Why does microsoft get royalties on open
>> source software.
>>    
> Bingo! It's too soon to tell. But something is going to change in the
> future. As some have mentioned already, perhaps Samba will get pulled
> and something else will replace it that "enhances" windows & linux
> interoperatability. Just a wild hunch.
>  
I see it as a classic Divide-and-Conquer move directed at RedHat.  First
M'soft convinces the world that Novell / SuSE is the way to go for
interoperability.  Then when RedHat is pretty much out of the picture as
a commercial force, they pull one of their classic changes of direction
and leave Novell hanging in the breeze, having eliminated the other
major force in the market.  Then they can turn on Novell.  Trust
Microsoft?  About as far as I can throw Bill Gates' bank statement.


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Re: SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

Bruce Marshall
On Tuesday 07 November 2006 10:26, Gordon Keehn wrote:
> >  
>
> I see it as a classic Divide-and-Conquer move directed at RedHat.  First
> M'soft convinces the world that Novell / SuSE is the way to go for
> interoperability.  Then when RedHat is pretty much out of the picture as
> a commercial force, they pull one of their classic changes of direction
> and leave Novell hanging in the breeze, having eliminated the other
> major force in the market.  Then they can turn on Novell.  Trust
> Microsoft?  About as far as I can throw Bill Gates' bank statement.


I think you've broken the code.   I had thought that MS's plan was to put
Novell/SuSE out of business but I hadn't thought about how they could get RH
too.

After 7 years of SuSE and being very happy with it, I just downloaded
Kunbuntu.   Probably will make the switch soon.

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Re: SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

PerfectReign
On Tuesday 07 November 2006 07:35, Bruce Marshall wrote:

> On Tuesday 07 November 2006 10:26, Gordon Keehn wrote:
> > >  
> >
> > I see it as a classic Divide-and-Conquer move directed at RedHat.  First
> > M'soft convinces the world that Novell / SuSE is the way to go for
> > interoperability.  Then when RedHat is pretty much out of the picture as
> > a commercial force, they pull one of their classic changes of direction
> > and leave Novell hanging in the breeze, having eliminated the other
> > major force in the market.  Then they can turn on Novell.  Trust
> > Microsoft?  About as far as I can throw Bill Gates' bank statement.
>
> I think you've broken the code.   I had thought that MS's plan was to put
> Novell/SuSE out of business but I hadn't thought about how they could get
> RH too.

That is exactly the plan.  Unfortunately, the suits at Novell can't see it.

This has been the modus operandi for MS for years. Create FUD and turn people
away from the leader to another competing product. Then drop the competitor
leaving everyone running to Uncle Bill.


>
> After 7 years of SuSE and being very happy with it, I just downloaded
> Kunbuntu.   Probably will make the switch soon.

Let us know how it goes.  I'd be curious if it is half as easy to maintain as
SUSEsoft.
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Re: SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

cjgunzel
I've looked at Kubuntu a bit and one thing is for sure, there's better
support for KDE!  I've never had a SuSE KDE update that didn't get
into dependency hell and/or screw up my install.  There's never been
one that worked in my experience.  It looks like Kubuntu gets KDE
versions up for update quite quickly.  It's looking like a more
attractive option all the time.  Since I think mono is a collossal
waste of effort and GNOME likewise, I think Novell will be looking
less and less attractive as time goes.

Suse/SUSE has been a good ride though and I'm going to miss YaST2.  It
is, however, as I understand, open source now so perhaps the Germans
who started SUSE will get back together and start something new that
will take the place of the dependable distro we all loved.

Unlikely as it is, Novell, Red Hat, Sun and Oracle certainly leave
room for hp or IBM or somebody to create a KDE based distro and as the
suits like to say, "Let the market decide."

Chuck

On 11/7/06, Kai Ponte <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tuesday 07 November 2006 07:35, Bruce Marshall wrote:
> > On Tuesday 07 November 2006 10:26, Gordon Keehn wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > > I see it as a classic Divide-and-Conquer move directed at RedHat.  First
> > > M'soft convinces the world that Novell / SuSE is the way to go for
> > > interoperability.  Then when RedHat is pretty much out of the picture as
> > > a commercial force, they pull one of their classic changes of direction
> > > and leave Novell hanging in the breeze, having eliminated the other
> > > major force in the market.  Then they can turn on Novell.  Trust
> > > Microsoft?  About as far as I can throw Bill Gates' bank statement.
> >
> > I think you've broken the code.   I had thought that MS's plan was to put
> > Novell/SuSE out of business but I hadn't thought about how they could get
> > RH too.
>
> That is exactly the plan.  Unfortunately, the suits at Novell can't see it.
>
> This has been the modus operandi for MS for years. Create FUD and turn
> people
> away from the leader to another competing product. Then drop the competitor
> leaving everyone running to Uncle Bill.
>
>
> >
> > After 7 years of SuSE and being very happy with it, I just downloaded
> > Kunbuntu.   Probably will make the switch soon.
>
> Let us know how it goes.  I'd be curious if it is half as easy to maintain
> as
> SUSEsoft.
> --
> kai ponte
> www.perfectreign.com
>
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>

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Re: SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

JJ Gitties
On 11/7/06, Chuck Davis <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I've looked at Kubuntu a bit and one thing is for sure, there's better
> support for KDE!  I've never had a SuSE KDE update that didn't get
> into dependency hell and/or screw up my install.  There's never been
> one that worked in my experience.  It looks like Kubuntu gets KDE
> versions up for update quite quickly.  It's looking like a more
> attractive option all the time.  Since I think mono is a collossal
> waste of effort and GNOME likewise, I think Novell will be looking
> less and less attractive as time goes.
>
> Suse/SUSE has been a good ride though and I'm going to miss YaST2.  It
> is, however, as I understand, open source now so perhaps the Germans
> who started SUSE will get back together and start something new that
> will take the place of the dependable distro we all loved.
>
> Unlikely as it is, Novell, Red Hat, Sun and Oracle certainly leave
> room for hp or IBM or somebody to create a KDE based distro and as the
> suits like to say, "Let the market decide."
>
> Chuck


I tried Ubuntu (I prefer Gnome) and like it a lot. Has not broken on me yet.
Also gave the kid Edubuntu. Lots of fun in the household.

Whatever come out of this MS & Novell episode, this will be a huge blow to
Linux in the enterprise in the end.
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Re: SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

Mike-207
In reply to this post by cjgunzel
On Tuesday 07 November 2006 18:51, Chuck Davis wrote:
> I've looked at Kubuntu a bit and one thing is for sure, there's
> better support for KDE!  I've never had a SuSE KDE update that didn't

I looked at it also. And promptly took it off. My reason? Any distro
that comes out and doesn't install the correct kernel gets dumped. It's
that simple. I've heard it a million times. Just use apt and get the
smp kernel. I want it up and running correctly the first time. Why
should I have to download something that should be included. it's not
that hard. As for the KDE updates, I've not had problems with them. But
then again, I don't need the latest and greatest. Just something that
works.

> attractive option all the time.  Since I think mono is a collossal
> waste of effort and GNOME likewise, I think Novell will be looking
> less and less attractive as time goes.

Got to agree on that one. Mono, and the stuff associated with it are a
waste of time.

 Suse/SUSE has been a good ride though and I'm going to miss YaST2.
> It is, however, as I understand, open source now so perhaps the
> Germans who started SUSE will get back together and start something
> new that will take the place of the dependable distro we all loved.

We can dream.. And I hope it comes true.

Mike

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Re: SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

James Knott
In reply to this post by Gordon R. Keehn
Gordon Keehn wrote:

> Darko Gavrilovic wrote:
>> John Andersen wrote:
>>  
>>> That last bit is what I don't get.  Why does microsoft get royalties
>>> on open source software.
>>>    
>> Bingo! It's too soon to tell. But something is going to change in the
>> future. As some have mentioned already, perhaps Samba will get pulled
>> and something else will replace it that "enhances" windows & linux
>> interoperatability. Just a wild hunch.
>>  
> I see it as a classic Divide-and-Conquer move directed at RedHat.  First
> M'soft convinces the world that Novell / SuSE is the way to go for
> interoperability.  Then when RedHat is pretty much out of the picture as
> a commercial force, they pull one of their classic changes of direction
> and leave Novell hanging in the breeze, having eliminated the other
> major force in the market.  Then they can turn on Novell.  Trust
> Microsoft?  About as far as I can throw Bill Gates' bank statement.
>

According to articles on Groklaw, it appears MS is paying Novell more
than 8x what Novell pays MS.  In addition, most of what MS pays is up
front and what Novell pays, is spread over 5 years.  Novell contends
there are no MS patents violated and the agreement was written with GPL
in mind and there is no licensing of MS patents, simply an agreement not
to sue, should such an issue arise.



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Re: SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

John Andersen
In reply to this post by PerfectReign
On Tuesday 07 November 2006 08:04, Kai Ponte wrote:
> Let us know how it goes.  I'd be curious if it is half as easy to maintain
> as SUSEsoft.

Parsing "half as easy" hurts my brain.

Its every bit as easy.  Icon in tray says updates available.
Click, enter password,
window shows updates (using almost exactly the same window and icon)
updates downloaded, applied, and exit.

The big difference is it takes less than a third the time the
suse process does.

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Re: SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

John Andersen
In reply to this post by cjgunzel
On Tuesday 07 November 2006 08:51, Chuck Davis wrote:
> I've looked at Kubuntu a bit and one thing is for sure, there's better
> support for KDE!  I've never had a SuSE KDE update that didn't get
> into dependency hell and/or screw up my install.

What are you talking about?  There was a KDE update yesterday
with 83 modules to update, and it worked in SuSE 10.1 perfectly!

I'm running KDE 3.5.5 release 39.1.

No problemo!

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Re: SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

Patrick Shanahan
* John Andersen <[hidden email]> [11-07-06 23:18]:
>
> What are you talking about?  There was a KDE update yesterday
> with 83 modules to update, and it worked in SuSE 10.1 perfectly!
>
> I'm running KDE 3.5.5 release 39.1.
>
> No problemo!


me 2.  Smart did it all.

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Re: SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

John Andersen
In reply to this post by James Knott
On Tuesday 07 November 2006 16:47, James Knott wrote:
>  simply an agreement not
> to sue, should such an issue arise.

Protection Money.  Plain and simple.  
Pay me 300 dollars every month and I'll see to it your store doesn't burn
down.

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Re: SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

James Knott
John Andersen wrote:
> On Tuesday 07 November 2006 16:47, James Knott wrote:
>>  simply an agreement not
>> to sue, should such an issue arise.
>
> Protection Money.  Plain and simple.  
> Pay me 300 dollars every month and I'll see to it your store doesn't burn
> down.
>

MS is paying Novell more than 8x what Novell pays MS.



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Re: SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

James Knott
don wrote:

> On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 06:20 -0500, James Knott wrote:
>> John Andersen wrote:
>>> On Tuesday 07 November 2006 16:47, James Knott wrote:
>>>>  simply an agreement not
>>>> to sue, should such an issue arise.
>>> Protection Money.  Plain and simple.  
>>> Pay me 300 dollars every month and I'll see to it your store doesn't burn
>>> down.
>>>
>> MS is paying Novell more than 8x what Novell pays MS.
>>
>  James, I'd like to know your source of the above info.  If you've a copy of their, Novell
>  & Microsoft's, signed agreements/contracts, I sure would appreciate obtaining a copy of each
>  or the site at which the copies could be obtained.  There are too many, in my estimation,
>  rumor's and hypothesis as to just what this arrangement means to us in
> the Linux movement and they need to be clarified.
>
> Thx, Don
>  
>

This is one link that was on Groklaw.

<http://news.com.com/Microsoft+paying+Novell+308+million+for+Linux+pact/2100-1014_3-6133361.html>


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Re: SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

James Knott
James Knott wrote:

> don wrote:
>> On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 06:20 -0500, James Knott wrote:
>>> John Andersen wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday 07 November 2006 16:47, James Knott wrote:
>>>>>  simply an agreement not
>>>>> to sue, should such an issue arise.
>>>> Protection Money.  Plain and simple.  
>>>> Pay me 300 dollars every month and I'll see to it your store doesn't burn
>>>> down.
>>>>
>>> MS is paying Novell more than 8x what Novell pays MS.
>>>
>>  James, I'd like to know your source of the above info.  If you've a copy of their, Novell
>>  & Microsoft's, signed agreements/contracts, I sure would appreciate obtaining a copy of each
>>  or the site at which the copies could be obtained.  There are too many, in my estimation,
>>  rumor's and hypothesis as to just what this arrangement means to us in
>> the Linux movement and they need to be clarified.
>>
>> Thx, Don
>>  
>>
>
> This is one link that was on Groklaw.
>
> <http://news.com.com/Microsoft+paying+Novell+308+million+for+Linux+pact/2100-1014_3-6133361.html>
>
>

Here's another.  There have been several with these details.


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Re: SPAM: A good read re Microsoft and Novell

James Knott
James Knott wrote:

> James Knott wrote:
>> don wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 06:20 -0500, James Knott wrote:
>>>> John Andersen wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday 07 November 2006 16:47, James Knott wrote:
>>>>>>  simply an agreement not
>>>>>> to sue, should such an issue arise.
>>>>> Protection Money.  Plain and simple.  
>>>>> Pay me 300 dollars every month and I'll see to it your store doesn't burn
>>>>> down.
>>>>>
>>>> MS is paying Novell more than 8x what Novell pays MS.
>>>>
>>>  James, I'd like to know your source of the above info.  If you've a copy of their, Novell
>>>  & Microsoft's, signed agreements/contracts, I sure would appreciate obtaining a copy of each
>>>  or the site at which the copies could be obtained.  There are too many, in my estimation,
>>>  rumor's and hypothesis as to just what this arrangement means to us in
>>> the Linux movement and they need to be clarified.
>>>
>>> Thx, Don
>>>  
>>>
>> This is one link that was on Groklaw.
>>
>> <http://news.com.com/Microsoft+paying+Novell+308+million+for+Linux+pact/2100-1014_3-6133361.html>
>>
>>
>
> Here's another.  There have been several with these details.
>
>
Hmmm...  I might have forgot something.

<http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7235986827.html>

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