Removing sax2 from live cd?

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Removing sax2 from live cd?

Vincent Untz-5
Hi,

I wonder why we have sax2 on the live cds. If X is not working, then it
doesn't really make a lot of sense to even try to use the live cd, does
it?

Am I missing something?

(not saying we should remove sax2 from the distro, dvd, or whatever)

Vincent

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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

gregfreemyer
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Vincent Untz<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I wonder why we have sax2 on the live cds. If X is not working, then it
> doesn't really make a lot of sense to even try to use the live cd, does
> it?
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> (not saying we should remove sax2 from the distro, dvd, or whatever)
>
> Vincent

Sax2 is not just for catastrophic x issues.

I've used sax2 on a running x-system to enable dual monitor for sure.

And to change resolution and other tweaks as well I do believe.

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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

Vincent Untz-5
Le jeudi 06 août 2009, à 19:17 -0400, Greg Freemyer a écrit :

> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Vincent Untz<[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I wonder why we have sax2 on the live cds. If X is not working, then it
> > doesn't really make a lot of sense to even try to use the live cd, does
> > it?
> >
> > Am I missing something?
> >
> > (not saying we should remove sax2 from the distro, dvd, or whatever)
> >
> > Vincent
>
> Sax2 is not just for catastrophic x issues.
>
> I've used sax2 on a running x-system to enable dual monitor for sure.
>
> And to change resolution and other tweaks as well I do believe.

In a modern X world, randr is supposed to cover those use cases.

Vincent

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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

Stephan Kulow-2
In reply to this post by Vincent Untz-5
Am Freitag 07 August 2009 schrieb Vincent Untz:
> Hi,
>
> I wonder why we have sax2 on the live cds. If X is not working, then it
> doesn't really make a lot of sense to even try to use the live cd, does
> it?
>
> Am I missing something?
>
sax2 is on its decline, but right now I wouldn't dare to drop it from an
install as people having problems with X (not just complete broken X, but
a nuance) will look for it. For 11.3 I agree, it's the first thing to be
removed from the install.

Greetings, Stephan
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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

jdd@dodin.org
Stephan Kulow a écrit :

> a nuance) will look for it. For 11.3 I agree, it's the first thing to be
> removed from the install.

please don't remove simply a so well known application. At a minimum,
sax2 should be replaced by a small message saying was people need to do

thanks
jdd


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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

Mike-207
In reply to this post by Vincent Untz-5
On Friday 07 August 2009, Vincent Untz wrote:

> > I've used sax2 on a running x-system to enable dual monitor for
> > sure.
> >
> > And to change resolution and other tweaks as well I do believe.
>
> In a modern X world, randr is supposed to cover those use cases.

In a modern world, there is a place to configure it. So far I've only
found a tray item that does this. When I tell it to configure it tells
me that my version is greater than 1.2, and doesn't have a
configuration. Huh? That's why I clicked on configure.

Mike

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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

Vincent Untz-5
Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 10:50 +0200, Mike a écrit :

> On Friday 07 August 2009, Vincent Untz wrote:
>
> > > I've used sax2 on a running x-system to enable dual monitor for
> > > sure.
> > >
> > > And to change resolution and other tweaks as well I do believe.
> >
> > In a modern X world, randr is supposed to cover those use cases.
>
> In a modern world, there is a place to configure it. So far I've only
> found a tray item that does this. When I tell it to configure it tells
> me that my version is greater than 1.2, and doesn't have a
> configuration. Huh? That's why I clicked on configure.

I would call that a bug and file it.

And yep, we agree that there should be a place to configure this. I
don't know the KDE tools (but I'd expect there's one for this), but
there's gnome-display-properties in GNOME which does exactly this.

Vincent

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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

Vincent Untz-5
In reply to this post by Stephan Kulow-2
Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 10:22 +0200, Stephan Kulow a écrit :

> Am Freitag 07 August 2009 schrieb Vincent Untz:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I wonder why we have sax2 on the live cds. If X is not working, then it
> > doesn't really make a lot of sense to even try to use the live cd, does
> > it?
> >
> > Am I missing something?
> >
> sax2 is on its decline, but right now I wouldn't dare to drop it from an
> install as people having problems with X (not just complete broken X, but
> a nuance) will look for it. For 11.3 I agree, it's the first thing to be
> removed from the install.

Fair enough. I'll find some free space elsewhere on the live cd, then
;-)

Vincent

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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

Felix Miata-3
In reply to this post by Stephan Kulow-2
On 2009/08/07 10:22 (GMT+0200) Stephan Kulow composed:

> sax2 is on its decline, but right now I wouldn't dare to drop it from an
> install as people having problems with X (not just complete broken X, but
> a nuance) will look for it. For 11.3 I agree, it's the first thing to be
> removed from the install.

For me that will be a sad day. Interactive sax2 is like son of yast,
something that makes SUSE SUSE and stand above other distros. I hope if this
actually happens that sax2 remains as a symlink to whatever purports to
replace it.
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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

Stephan Kulow-2
Am Freitag 07 August 2009 schrieb Felix Miata:

> On 2009/08/07 10:22 (GMT+0200) Stephan Kulow composed:
> > sax2 is on its decline, but right now I wouldn't dare to drop it from an
> > install as people having problems with X (not just complete broken X, but
> > a nuance) will look for it. For 11.3 I agree, it's the first thing to be
> > removed from the install.
>
> For me that will be a sad day. Interactive sax2 is like son of yast,
> something that makes SUSE SUSE and stand above other distros. I hope if
> this actually happens that sax2 remains as a symlink to whatever purports
> to replace it.

sax2 is basically an editor for xorg.conf - problem is: Xorg doesn't want an
xorg.conf anymore, but do everything dynamic in desktop tools. So there is no
"symlink" to do.

Greetings, Stephan

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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

jdd@dodin.org
Stephan Kulow a écrit :

> sax2 is basically an editor for xorg.conf - problem is: Xorg doesn't want an
> xorg.conf anymore, but do everything dynamic in desktop tools. So there is no
> "symlink" to do.

weel a symlink displaying exactly this :-)

but how will us do when nothing is displaying? I used to run sax2-vesa
and that worked alomost always

jdd

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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

Stefan Dirsch
On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 03:17:36PM +0200, jdd (kim2) wrote:

> Stephan Kulow a écrit :
>
> > sax2 is basically an editor for xorg.conf - problem is: Xorg doesn't want an
> > xorg.conf anymore, but do everything dynamic in desktop tools. So there is no
> > "symlink" to do.
>
> weel a symlink displaying exactly this :-)
>
> but how will us do when nothing is displaying? I used to run sax2-vesa
> and that worked alomost always

'x11failsafe' boot param is still available (also used by failsafe boot
entry). This forces X (in more detail displaymanagers, which make use of xdm
init script) to use /etc/X11/xorg.conf.install as configuration. This is the
config file from installation, for which we still prefer fbdev/vesa driver.
Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Stefan

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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

Mike-207
In reply to this post by Vincent Untz-5
On Friday 07 August 2009, Vincent Untz wrote:

> > > In a modern X world, randr is supposed to cover those use cases.
> >
> > In a modern world, there is a place to configure it. So far I've
> > only found a tray item that does this. When I tell it to configure
> > it tells me that my version is greater than 1.2, and doesn't have a
> > configuration. Huh? That's why I clicked on configure.
>
> I would call that a bug and file it.

Strange.. I'll have to do a bit more research. BTW, you are right it's
kde3 on 11.0. But IIRC, it'c been that way for quite a while. I'll take
a look at kde4 and see if it is there.

Mike


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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

Nicolaus Millin
In reply to this post by Stefan Dirsch
Stefan Dirsch schrieb:

> On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 03:17:36PM +0200, jdd (kim2) wrote:
>> Stephan Kulow a écrit :
>>
>>> sax2 is basically an editor for xorg.conf - problem is: Xorg doesn't want an
>>> xorg.conf anymore, but do everything dynamic in desktop tools. So there is no
>>> "symlink" to do.
>> weel a symlink displaying exactly this :-)
>>
>> but how will us do when nothing is displaying? I used to run sax2-vesa
>> and that worked alomost always
>
> 'x11failsafe' boot param is still available (also used by failsafe boot
> entry). This forces X (in more detail displaymanagers, which make use of xdm
> init script) to use /etc/X11/xorg.conf.install as configuration. This is the
> config file from installation, for which we still prefer fbdev/vesa driver.
> Hope this helps.

I had more than one user who by experimenting with drivers, window
managers and different repos completely screw up their X configuration.

As stated in

http://www.novell.com/communities/node/1323/how+reconfigure+your+screen+yast/sax2

the easisest way to get them out of this mess was a

sax2 -a -r

as root in runlevel 3.

Displaymanagers' configuration tools are of no help here.

Which command line tool would be as easy and straightforward to use?

Best Regards

Nico

>
> Best regards,
> Stefan
>
> Public Key available
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.)   SUSE LINUX Products GmbH
> Tel: 0911-740 53 0            Maxfeldstraße 5
> FAX: 0911-740 53 479          D-90409 Nürnberg
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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

Vincent Untz-5
Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 17:32 +0200, Nicolaus Millin a écrit :
> Which command line tool would be as easy and straightforward to use?

I would think the easiest way would be to go back to letting X do the
right thing:

mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.broken

Vincent

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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

jdd@dodin.org
Vincent Untz a écrit :

> Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 17:32 +0200, Nicolaus Millin a écrit :
>> Which command line tool would be as easy and straightforward to use?
>
> I would think the easiest way would be to go back to letting X do the
> right thing:
>
> mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.broken
>
> Vincent
>
well, most of the time it's *this* wich is broken :-(
jdd

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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

Nicolaus Millin
In reply to this post by Vincent Untz-5
Vincent Untz schrieb:
> Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 17:32 +0200, Nicolaus Millin a écrit :
>> Which command line tool would be as easy and straightforward to use?
>
> I would think the easiest way would be to go back to letting X do the
> right thing:
>
> mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.broken

ok, the I could boot with option "x11failsafe" then.

What is the user to do to get a working X again? I don't want him to
experiment with configuration tools, mainly because he might not
understand (yet) what the options are about.

Giving him an 1 comand line automatically generated working X (like the
first installation setup) is *very* helpful, especially when you are
talking with somebody over the phone without any visual feedback.

Best Regards

Nico

>
> Vincent
>

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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

Vincent Untz-5
In reply to this post by jdd@dodin.org
Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 18:06 +0200, jdd (kim2) a écrit :

> Vincent Untz a écrit :
> > Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 17:32 +0200, Nicolaus Millin a écrit :
> >> Which command line tool would be as easy and straightforward to use?
> >
> > I would think the easiest way would be to go back to letting X do the
> > right thing:
> >
> > mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.broken
> >
> > Vincent
> >
> well, most of the time it's *this* wich is broken :-(

Did you report bugs when this was broken for you?

Vincent

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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

Vincent Untz-5
In reply to this post by Nicolaus Millin
Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 18:19 +0200, Nicolaus Millin a écrit :

> Vincent Untz schrieb:
> > Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 17:32 +0200, Nicolaus Millin a écrit :
> >> Which command line tool would be as easy and straightforward to use?
> >
> > I would think the easiest way would be to go back to letting X do the
> > right thing:
> >
> > mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.broken
>
> ok, the I could boot with option "x11failsafe" then.
>
> What is the user to do to get a working X again? I don't want him to
> experiment with configuration tools, mainly because he might not
> understand (yet) what the options are about.
>
> Giving him an 1 comand line automatically generated working X (like the
> first installation setup) is *very* helpful, especially when you are
> talking with somebody over the phone without any visual feedback.

As already mentioned, X should work just fine without a configuration
file. So this is the command you'd want to use. And if it's not: "zypper
in sax2; sax2"

Vincent

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Re: Removing sax2 from live cd?

jdd@dodin.org
In reply to this post by Vincent Untz-5
Vincent Untz a écrit :

>> well, most of the time it's *this* wich is broken :-(
>
> Did you report bugs when this was broken for you?

no because I always use the default sax2-vesa setup :-(

but let alone look at the nvidia or ati threads all the time and all
the laptop not starting a graphical interface I am reported (and I was
able to fix with this comand nearly each time)

can you make sure X will *always* start without xorg.conf file? if so
make sax2 a link to a script "simply remove xorg.cof, do you wqant me
to do this for you?"

it's like when the "boot actual install" was removed. "its no more
necessary" was I said. then, now I have to fight each time grub have a
problem. and to set a bugzilla report would me make sure I have any
time/log/understanding of what happen what I usualy don't have in such
situation (I'm just trying to help some body with this problem on the
opensuse list: repair tools don't repair boot)

jdd
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