Red Hat's take:

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Re: Red Hat's take:

James Knott
Doug McGarrett wrote:

> At 10:37 AM 11/9/2006 +0100, Jos van Kan wrote:
>> Jos van Kan wrote:
>>
>>> Turbo Pascal has evolved to Turbo
>>> Delphi. Pricetag a bit high though at $400. :-( MS-Windows only.
>>>
>> Correction. There is an Explorer version (which appears rich enough) that
> is free.
>> http://www.turboexplorer.com
>>
>> Regards,
>> --
>> Jos van Kan                registered Linux user #152704
>
> Once, I actually wrote some code.  Not an awful lot, and not as my
> prime occupation, but I actually _wrote_ code, and compiled it.  I
> did not "drag and drop" stuff, and when Visual Basic and Delphi
> came along I knew I was out of the game.  I still have a Kylix disk,
> somewhere, but it might as well be Chinese.  I never learned C, or
> C++, so I guess that I will never code again.  Well, I'm retired,
> and I really don't have to anymore.  Besides, anything anyone needs
> to calculate anymore is done by people who understand Excel.
> Phooey!

I took courses for C, Pascal, BASIC and Fortran.  I've never used any of
them professionally, though I have hand assembled some short routines
for the Data General Nova 800 & Eclipse.  I've also done a fair bit of
assembly programming for my IMSAI 8080 and a bit for my XT clone.  And,
like many others, some BASIC on my home computers.


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Re: Red Hat's take:

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by James Knott
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The Thursday 2006-11-09 at 06:55 -0500, James Knott wrote:

> Try to buy anyone's Pascal.  It appears to be a dead language these days.

Not quite.

There is a gnu version of pascal, and there is also "Free Pascal" (
http://www.freepascal.org/). Then, there is also Lazarus
(http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/), that emulates Delphi.


When I code something, I do it in Pascal.

- --
Cheers,
       Carlos E. R.

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Re: Red Hat's take:

BandiPat
In reply to this post by James Knott
On Thursday 09 November 2006 07:07, James Knott wrote:

> Doug McGarrett wrote:
> > At 10:37 AM 11/9/2006 +0100, Jos van Kan wrote:
> >> Jos van Kan wrote:
> >>> Turbo Pascal has evolved to Turbo
> >>> Delphi. Pricetag a bit high though at $400. :-( MS-Windows only.
> >>
> >> Correction. There is an Explorer version (which appears rich
> >> enough) that
> >
> > is free.
> >
> >> http://www.turboexplorer.com
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> --
> >> Jos van Kan                registered Linux user #152704
> >
> > Once, I actually wrote some code.  Not an awful lot, and not as my
> > prime occupation, but I actually _wrote_ code, and compiled it.  I
> > did not "drag and drop" stuff, and when Visual Basic and Delphi
> > came along I knew I was out of the game.  I still have a Kylix
> > disk, somewhere, but it might as well be Chinese.  I never learned
> > C, or C++, so I guess that I will never code again.  Well, I'm
> > retired, and I really don't have to anymore.  Besides, anything
> > anyone needs to calculate anymore is done by people who understand
> > Excel. Phooey!
>
> I took courses for C, Pascal, BASIC and Fortran.  I've never used any
> of them professionally, though I have hand assembled some short
> routines for the Data General Nova 800 & Eclipse.  I've also done a
> fair bit of assembly programming for my IMSAI 8080 and a bit for my
> XT clone.  And, like many others, some BASIC on my home computers.
=========

I'm just waiting for Cobol to make a big comeback!  Remember to watch
those periods.  ;-)

bye,
Lee

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Re: Red Hat's take:

Boyd Lynn Gerber
On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, BandiPat wrote:
> I'm just waiting for Cobol to make a big comeback!  Remember to watch
> those periods.  ;-)

I still have to deal with cadol.  The way I have to deal with it is using
c2c.  A Cadol to C translater.  The Cadol programs writes his program and
then runs c2c.  The last real c2c development was back in 1994.

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Re: Red Hat's take:

Doug McGarrett
In reply to this post by James Knott
At 06:55 AM 11/9/2006 -0500, James Knott wrote:

>
>Doug McGarrett wrote:
>
>> Oh, yeah?  Try and buy a copy of Turbo Pascal, or Eureka.
>> Whatever they might be doing now is no help to me.
>
>James Knott wrote:
>
>Try to buy anyone's Pascal.  It appears to be a dead language these days.
>
Check out "Pascal compiler" in Google.  It's not quite gone. I found Pascal
to be a very logical and useful language.  One of the most helpful ideas
was the "case" statement.  You could do in a few lines what it took as
many as several pages of BASIC.  I guess something similar exists in C,
but I always got the idea that C was too convoluted, compared to Pascal.
(Pascal is the only language I actually took a college course in, about
the time that CPM was becoming popular, and affordable, altho if I had
been a bit younger, I would surely have been exposed to Fortran and
punched cards.)  While I was actively doing engineering, I saw a lot of
programmers writing C and C++ to control microprocessors, but I don't
remember anyone ever writing a C program to actually solve a set of
equations and provide answers in plain numerical output, as BASIC and
Pascal did. Well, I take that back--I suppose that the modern spreadsheets
are written in a C dialect. I think Eureka was written in Pascal, but I'm
not sure.  Eureka was a Borland product that solved equations, but it
was _really_ a GIGO routine.  It would provide some kind of answer, no
matter what garbage you fed it.  It really taught you to be careful!
But unlike spreadsheets, it understood x, y, z, etc. instead of +b13.
I suppose Mathcad is still around, but it had the world's worst editor,
and I never got used to it.  (By the time I could get anything useful
entered, I could have solved by hand!)  

--doug  


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Re: Red Hat's take:

Doug McGarrett
In reply to this post by BandiPat
At 08:32 AM 11/9/2006 -0500, BandiPat wrote:
>Content-Disposition: inline
>
/snip/
>=========
>
>I'm just waiting for Cobol to make a big comeback!  Remember to watch
>those periods.  ;-)
>
>bye,
>Lee
>
I have a cousin who actually wrote Cobol for a living until she
came into some money and "retired."  And I once knew an engineer
who thought Cobol was cool, but he wasn't such a wonder as an
engineer, either. ;-)

--doug


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Re: Red Hat's take:

Bruce Marshall
On Thursday 09 November 2006 15:58, Doug McGarrett wrote:
> I have a cousin who actually wrote Cobol for a living until she
> came into some money and "retired."  And I once knew an engineer
> who thought Cobol was cool, but he wasn't such a wonder as an
> engineer, either. ;-)

Cobol is the *one* language I refused to learn.  Lots of assembler, pascal, C,
Fortran, but no COBOL.    I think I'd rather collect garbage than be bored
out of my skull.

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Re: Red Hat's take:

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Doug McGarrett
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The Thursday 2006-11-09 at 15:52 -0500, Doug McGarrett wrote:

> I suppose Mathcad is still around, but it had the world's worst editor,
> and I never got used to it.  (By the time I could get anything useful
> entered, I could have solved by hand!)  

It's still around, I used to get a pamphlet every time they have a new
version. Or do I get confused with mathlab?

I recently saw a reference to a Linux equivalent somewhere, but I can't
recollect where. Maybe in the "Productivity/Scientific/Math" section of
Yast.

- --
Cheers,
       Carlos E. R.

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Re: Red Hat's take:

Darryl Gregorash
In reply to this post by Matt T.
On 08/11/06 21:11, Matt T. wrote:

> On Tuesday 07 November 2006 08:13, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>  
>> Have you already made you mind up that SUSE is no more?  And what
>> basis?
>>    
>
> 1) Experience with seeing Novell buying, hyping, killing, and then selling
> WordPerfect, QuattroPro, DrDOS, UnixWare, etc. etc. It always looked as if
> they would do the job for Microsoft, eliminating the competition.
> This made me worrying the moment Novell bought SuSE.
>  
On which basis I have to wonder just why you continued to use SuSE after
Novell bought it?

(Going completely off-topic... hmm, now I wonder just why Novell is in
the library of my spell-checker, but SuSE is not, yet this is the
version of SeaMonkey that is on SuSE's ftp site.. and now that I wonder
about this, I am also led to wonder why the dictionary for SeaMonkey
does not contain SeaMonkey, and why does any computer spell checker not
contain ftp in its dictionary?)

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Re: Red Hat's take:

Darryl Gregorash
In reply to this post by Doug McGarrett
On 09/11/06 14:58, Doug McGarrett wrote:

> At 08:32 AM 11/9/2006 -0500, BandiPat wrote:
>  
>> Content-Disposition: inline
>>
>>    
> /snip/
>  
>> =========
>>
>> I'm just waiting for Cobol to make a big comeback!  Remember to watch
>> those periods.  ;-)
>>
>> bye,
>> Lee
>>
>>    
> I have a cousin who actually wrote Cobol for a living until she
> came into some money and "retired."  And I once knew an engineer
> who thought Cobol was cool, but he wasn't such a wonder as an
> engineer, either. ;-)
>  
You didn't have to say he wasn't such a great engineer either... every
university I went to, the engineers used to amuse themselves writing
better databases in Fortran than the admin students could write using
Cobol :-)


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Re: Red Hat's take:

Darryl Gregorash
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
On 09/11/06 06:59, Carlos E. R. wrote:

>
> The Thursday 2006-11-09 at 06:55 -0500, James Knott wrote:
>
> > Try to buy anyone's Pascal.  It appears to be a dead language these
> days.
>
> Not quite.
>
> There is a gnu version of pascal, and there is also "Free Pascal" (
> http://www.freepascal.org/). Then, there is also Lazarus
> (http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/), that emulates Delphi.
>
>
> When I code something, I do it in Pascal.
>
I thought real programmers write code at the command line: in DOStalk,
copy con filename.exe

:-)

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Re: Red Hat's take:

Patrick Shanahan
In reply to this post by Darryl Gregorash
* Darryl Gregorash <[hidden email]> [11-09-06 19:50]:
> (Going completely off-topic... hmm, now I wonder just why Novell is in
> the library of my spell-checker, but SuSE is not, yet this is the
> version of SeaMonkey that is on SuSE's ftp site.. and now that I wonder
> about this, I am also led to wonder why the dictionary for SeaMonkey
> does not contain SeaMonkey, and why does any computer spell checker not
> contain ftp in its dictionary?)

SuSE would be wrong, anyway.  It's SUSE, and that's official.
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Re: Red Hat's take:

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Darryl Gregorash
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The Thursday 2006-11-09 at 18:56 -0600, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

...
> > When I code something, I do it in Pascal.
> >
> I thought real programmers write code at the command line: in DOStalk,
> copy con filename.exe
>
> :-)


X'-)

It's been a long time since I heard that one.

- --
Cheers,
       Carlos E. R.

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Re: Red Hat's take:

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan
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The Thursday 2006-11-09 at 19:59 -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

> * Darryl Gregorash <[hidden email]> [11-09-06 19:50]:
> > (Going completely off-topic... hmm, now I wonder just why Novell is in
> > the library of my spell-checker, but SuSE is not, yet this is the
> > version of SeaMonkey that is on SuSE's ftp site.. and now that I wonder
> > about this, I am also led to wonder why the dictionary for SeaMonkey
> > does not contain SeaMonkey, and why does any computer spell checker not
> > contain ftp in its dictionary?)
>
> SuSE would be wrong, anyway.  It's SUSE, and that's official.

My dictionary contains SuSE :-P

- --
Cheers,
       Carlos E. R.

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Re: Red Hat's take:

Patrick Shanahan
* Carlos E. R. <[hidden email]> [11-09-06 20:46]:
>
> My dictionary contains SuSE :-P
>

And _you_ know that it incorrect  :^)
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Re: Red Hat's take:

James Knott
In reply to this post by Darryl Gregorash
Darryl Gregorash wrote:

> On 09/11/06 06:59, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> The Thursday 2006-11-09 at 06:55 -0500, James Knott wrote:
>>
>>> Try to buy anyone's Pascal.  It appears to be a dead language these
>> days.
>>
>> Not quite.
>>
>> There is a gnu version of pascal, and there is also "Free Pascal" (
>> http://www.freepascal.org/). Then, there is also Lazarus
>> (http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/), that emulates Delphi.
>>
>>
>> When I code something, I do it in Pascal.
>>
> I thought real programmers write code at the command line: in DOStalk,
> copy con filename.exe

No, real programmers write directly to punch cards, using only their pen
knife.  ;-)

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Re: Red Hat's take:

Ken Jennings
On Thursday 09 November 2006 21:25, James Knott wrote:

> Darryl Gregorash wrote:
> > On 09/11/06 06:59, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> >> The Thursday 2006-11-09 at 06:55 -0500, James Knott wrote:
> >>> Try to buy anyone's Pascal.  It appears to be a dead language these
> >> days.
> >>
> >> There is a gnu version of pascal, and there is also "Free Pascal" (
> >> http://www.freepascal.org/). Then, there is also Lazarus
> >> (http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/), that emulates Delphi.
> >>
> >> When I code something, I do it in Pascal.
> >
> > I thought real programmers write code at the command line: in DOStalk,
> > copy con filename.exe
>
> No, real programmers write directly to punch cards, using only their pen
> knife.  ;-)

No, no, no.  Real programmers use a bent paper clip to punch holes in paper
tape.  But they only do that when they're too lazy to flip the switches by
hand on their Altairs.

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Re: Red Hat's take:

John Andersen
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan
On Thursday 09 November 2006 15:59, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

> SuSE would be wrong, anyway.  It's SUSE, and that's official.

Lots of people think it stopped being SuSE when it became SUSE.

;-)

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Re: Red Hat's take:

PerfectReign
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
On Thursday 09 November 2006 17:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> The Thursday 2006-11-09 at 18:56 -0600, Darryl Gregorash wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > > When I code something, I do it in Pascal.
> >
> > I thought real programmers write code at the command line: in DOStalk,
> > copy con filename.exe
> >
> > :-)
>
> X'-)
>
> It's been a long time since I heard that one.

I wonder how many here even actually know what that one is anymore.   :P

That's why I don't use Vi. Too many bad memories of edlin, followed by copy
con.

Next thing you'll be doing is telling me to cat something.

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Re: Red Hat's take:

Doug McGarrett
In reply to this post by Ken Jennings
At 09:46 PM 11/9/2006 -0500, Ken Jennings wrote:

>Content-Disposition: inline
>
>On Thursday 09 November 2006 21:25, James Knott wrote:
>> Darryl Gregorash wrote:
>> > On 09/11/06 06:59, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> >> The Thursday 2006-11-09 at 06:55 -0500, James Knott wrote:
>> >>> Try to buy anyone's Pascal.  It appears to be a dead language these
>> >> days.
>> >>
>> >> There is a gnu version of pascal, and there is also "Free Pascal" (
>> >> http://www.freepascal.org/). Then, there is also Lazarus
>> >> (http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/), that emulates Delphi.
>> >>
>> >> When I code something, I do it in Pascal.
>> >
>> > I thought real programmers write code at the command line: in DOStalk,
>> > copy con filename.exe
>>
>> No, real programmers write directly to punch cards, using only their pen
>> knife.  ;-)
>
>No, no, no.  Real programmers use a bent paper clip to punch holes in paper
>tape.  But they only do that when they're too lazy to flip the switches by
>hand on their Altairs.
>
I love it!  You guys should go on the Letterman show, or something.
But I must tell you that I kept a 4" diameter roll of paper tape, punched
on a model 35, for over 30 years, in my desk, thinking it might come
in handy someday.  Of course, it never did, and when I retired, I threw
it out.  OTOH, I once went to a seminar where switch programming was
demonstrated.  When computing was a baby, you really could do it
yourself.  I bet most of the pioneers once had a Commodore. Altho the
richer ones probably had a Radio Shack.  Remember them? The company
I worked for then had a bunch of secretaries typing in manuals on
TRS-80's. (I think that was the number.)  I guess that was even before
CPM, altho not by an awful lot.

--doug



 


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