Red Hat's take:

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Red Hat's take:

John Andersen
Red Hat: We will be here in one year, Novell will not

http://searchopensource.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid39_gci1228357,00.html


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SPAM: Re: Red Hat's take:

Bugzilla from andjoh@rydsbo.net
On Saturday 04 November 2006 23:47, John Andersen wrote:
> Red Hat: We will be here in one year, Novell will not
>
> http://searchopensource.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid39_gci12
>28357,00.html

heh, only commercial linux vendor left standing, they are funny. I think the
Comedy Club has a few slots left open


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Re: SPAM: Re: Red Hat's take:

John Andersen
On Saturday 04 November 2006 14:05, Anders Johansson wrote:
> heh, only commercial linux vendor left standing, they are funny. I think
> the Comedy Club has a few slots left open

Yeah, I thought that would get some attention. ;-)
They slip further into irrelevance every day.

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Re: Red Hat's take:

JB2-2
In reply to this post by John Andersen
On Saturday 04 November 2006 16:47, John Andersen wrote:

> Red Hat: We will be here in one year, Novell will not
>
> http://searchopensource.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid39_gci12
>28357,00.html

  Good article! Cements a few more things in my head about the "Microvell"
partnership.

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Re: Red Hat's take:

Geoffrey-2
In reply to this post by John Andersen
John Andersen wrote:
> Red Hat: We will be here in one year, Novell will not
>
> http://searchopensource.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid39_gci1228357,00.html

I don't think Novell had a clue as to how many open source advocates
would simply drop their product because of this agreement to  partner
with Microsoft.  From a philisophical point of view, I will find it a
hard time continuing to support SuSE.  I decided a long time ago that I
would not put anymore money into Microsoft coffers and therefore the
agreement with Microsoft creates a dilemma for me.

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Until later, Geoffrey

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
  - Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Red Hat's take:

jfweber
into electronic streams flowing thru the cosmos On Sunday 05 November 2006
8:13 am, Geoffrey wrote:

> John Andersen wrote:
> > Red Hat: We will be here in one year, Novell will not
> >
> > http://searchopensource.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid39
> >_gci1228357,00.html
>
> I don't think Novell had a clue as to how many open source advocates
> would simply drop their product because of this agreement to  partner
> with Microsoft.  From a philisophical point of view, I will find it a
> hard time continuing to support SuSE.  I decided a long time ago that I
> would not put anymore money into Microsoft coffers and therefore the
> agreement with Microsoft creates a dilemma for me.
>
I could be completely wrong here, but isn't Novell only going to pay
royalties for things like Samba and other items that "connect" to
Windows ? There can be no doubt they owe nothing for various bits that
are entirely Unix/Linux . And I suspect that MS has learned from the SCO
debacle that suing ones user base for using your product is unlikely to
bring in more income..  Even businesses will switch to linux, and they
all ( the big ones anyway ) have some form of "nix" they have already
paid IBM etc to come maintain...  

IBM,then seeing an opertunety , also zooms their army of sales folk over
to these guys w/ an "outstanding new and easy deal for you to take this
chance to upgrade all your desktop PCs to Linux ( prolly something Suse,
but in any case heavily customized...) IBM provides employee training and
phone bank support for the peons who will likely not even know there has
been any change to their computers, other than the obvious cosmetic
stuff.  

And GatesCo is left wondering wha' 'oppen???!!.  

It seems to me that all the "Kiosk"  stuff makes desktop management
easier. Since that system once settled can be "locked down" to keep the
users from tampering w/ it. That simplifies the day to day ops... fewer
needs to reboot= fewer chances for something to be screwed up= fewer lost
hours hunting for backups etc. ( I'm NOT advocating that IT stop doing
backups tho.)

Another advantage of this system would be that no matter where in the
world you go, where you have an office you will have a recognizable
desktop where you can sit and begin work. Somewhat like the MS advert
running here, where an American guy goes to someplace looking apparently
Russian The man has , maybe two words in the language, but they sit him
at a computer and the Boss type says, pointing out items on a screen we
do not see..  "Server, computer, Windows, and the new worker bee says Da!
cute... not very realistic but cute.. could just as easily say the same
and end w/ Linux..

That, coupled w/ the ads that Jobsco has out now, where a Mac dressed in
SJ Turtleneck outfit, and a PC looking like Gates as Nebish, which
throughout the whole series has been able to do less and less, until Mac
tells him hit future ( running MacOS) So far they are have established
that PeCe can't do anything and they have gone to a shrink...  I keep
waiting for Gates to hit back but as of now he hasn't.
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Re: Red Hat's take:

John Andersen
On Sunday 05 November 2006 10:16, [hidden email] wrote:

> I could be completely wrong here, but isn't Novell only going to pay
> royalties for things like Samba and other items that "connect" to
> Windows ?

Why would Novell pay royalties for something they did not develop
and which (I believe) is under GPL already.

The only way I see this happening is if the SMB/CIFS protocol changes
drastically in the future, and Microsoft offers support or documentation
of the changes.

Still, Novell's announced policy of no Binary Blobs in in the distro
this would have to be source re-distributable (code) unless its
Novell's intent to take Samba out of the distro in favor for some
licensed replacement.

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SPAM: Re: Red Hat's take:

Matt T.
In reply to this post by Geoffrey-2
On Sunday 05 November 2006 20:13, Geoffrey wrote:

> John Andersen wrote:
> > Red Hat: We will be here in one year, Novell will not
> >
> > http://searchopensource.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid39_gci
> >1228357,00.html
>
> I don't think Novell had a clue as to how many open source advocates
> would simply drop their product because of this agreement to  partner
> with Microsoft.  From a philisophical point of view, I will find it a
> hard time continuing to support SuSE.  I decided a long time ago that I
> would not put anymore money into Microsoft coffers and therefore the
> agreement with Microsoft creates a dilemma for me.
>

Same dilemma here.

I did see Novell killing WordPerfect.
I did see Novell killing QuattroPro.
I did see Novell killing DrDOS (when it started to be a thorn for MS).
I did see Novell killing UnixWare.

And now I fear for SuSE.

I want to continue to use SuSE, I really do, but I do not want to pay MS in
any way anymore, and I do not even want to use mono based stuff.

This is causing me real pain. So many years of working with SuSE and
supporting it, loving it, spreading it, installing it wherever possible are
not thrown away easily.

My download of the remastered 10.1 is still running, another 2 days (slowband
here), and when it is done I will probably never use it.

OMG, what are they thinking at Novell???

>
> Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
>   - Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Red Hat's take:

Matt T.
In reply to this post by John Andersen
On Monday 06 November 2006 08:35, Michael S. Dunsavage wrote:
> Why won't you use it?
>
> Did you buy it?

Well, yes, for all boxed version since ... 6.x

Of course impossible to buy this remastered version, as you know, but for the
original box, yes.

> Or did you download it for nothing except the cost of the
> CD?  

in this case: DVD

> What money did you put in MS's pocket by downloading the remastered
> cd?

I think about the next - boxed - versions, and if I have to switch then it'll
happen soon. I won't install any more distro once I know I will install a
different one in the future. Any additional SuSE install would then be more
migration pain once it is time for an upgrade.

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Re: Red Hat's take:

Patrick Shanahan
* Matt T. <[hidden email]> [11-06-06 20:05]:

> I think about the next - boxed - versions, and if I have to switch
> then it'll happen soon.

Why would you have to switch?

> I won't install any more distro once I know I will install a
> different one in the future.

You have already decided to switch?  Based on what?

> Any additional SuSE install would then be more migration pain once it
> is time for an upgrade.

That holds true for *any* distro install....


Have you already made you mind up that SUSE is no more?  And what
basis?
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Re: Red Hat's take:

Carl Spitzer-4
In reply to this post by John Andersen
On Sat, 2006-11-04 at 13:47 -0900, John Andersen wrote:
> Red Hat: We will be here in one year, Novell will not
>
> http://searchopensource.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid39_gci1228357,00.html
>
>
So then Open Suse is the future without the services of Novell.  Ill
miss My Real Box email.  I guess this means Ill at least buy 10.2 and
download the sources and get my major program updates from their
respective orgs.

CWSIV
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Re: Red Hat's take:

Matt T.
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan
On Tuesday 07 November 2006 08:13, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> * Matt T. <[hidden email]> [11-06-06 20:05]:
> > I think about the next - boxed - versions, and if I have to switch
> > then it'll happen soon.
>
> Why would you have to switch?

Well, Patrick, as explained before ... in other words, because there is a
big "no more Microsoft" sign on my forehead ;-)

I simply do not see where this MS - Novell deal is good for Novell, Linux,
OSS, or me.

As said before, if that was a genius marketing trick or similar from Novell I
do not see it. All I see is MS here and there and patents all over.

All I can do is then to either accept or switch. Accepting MS as partner?
Sorry, not me.

So what is left as alternative?

>
> > I won't install any more distro once I know I will install a
> > different one in the future.
>
> You have already decided to switch?  Based on what?

As said above and before.

>
> > Any additional SuSE install would then be more migration pain once it
> > is time for an upgrade.
>
> That holds true for *any* distro install....

Well, here it means - no upgrade from Novell x.x to Novell-MS x.y but from
Novell x.x to OtherDistro x.y which is probably requiring not an upgrade but
a new install and as such more painful.

>
>
> Have you already made you mind up that SUSE is no more?  And what
> basis?

1) Experience with seeing Novell buying, hyping, killing, and then selling
WordPerfect, QuattroPro, DrDOS, UnixWare, etc. etc. It always looked as if
they would do the job for Microsoft, eliminating the competition.
This made me worrying the moment Novell bought SuSE.

2) The shadow of MS and its patent lawyers over a clueless Novell management.

However, Patrick, if I see some light, some hope, I'm willing to listen. As
said, I like the SuSE team, I would prefer to stay with SuSE, if not ... (see
above)

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Re: Red Hat's take:

JJ Gitties
On 11/8/06, Matt T. <[hidden email]> wrote:
<snippy>

> 1) Experience with seeing Novell buying, hyping, killing, and then selling
> WordPerfect, QuattroPro, DrDOS, UnixWare, etc. etc. It always looked as if
> they would do the job for Microsoft, eliminating the competition.
> This made me worrying the moment Novell bought SuSE.


eh.h.. doesn't really count. that era of tech history is littered with these
kinds of moves and stories. anyone remember Borland?

but this discussion is beside the point. my beef with this is, and I hope
Andres can see my point of view, I have supported SUSE for a lot of years.
since 7.x i think. I always made sure my employer bought boxed and I never
told them I can easily FTP install it for free. i am not a developer, my
employer benefited from my work with it and this was my little way i could
contribute to SUSE and pretend that I was helping it keep chugging along.
why would I keep buying boxed now when I know it will be going to MS, what
do they need more money and support for? they have a major monopoly on the
OS and enterprise App marker.

If Ballmer came out and said, "the money we get from SUSE sales we will pour
all of it right back into Linux or Unix projects that we like and seem to
really need the support". Man, if they said they would give it to OpenBSD
(friggin' everyone uses and makes money from the  OpenSSH project), now I
would be behind this MS move into SUSE.

 But it's not gonna happen. 10.1 is probably going to be my last SUSE
distro. I am going Ubuntu or Fedora. I would ever go with Red Hat at this
point. They seem the lesser of evils.



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"*We* need to convince OpenSUSE to fork, or let 'em die. To bad, it is a
wonderful Distro. But their parent company is NOT our friend."
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Re: Red Hat's take:

Randall Schulz
On Wednesday 08 November 2006 20:30, JJ Gitties wrote:
> ...
>
> eh.h.. doesn't really count. that era of tech history is littered
> with these kinds of moves and stories. anyone remember Borland?

<http://www.borland.com/>

Rumors of their death are greatly exaggerated.

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Re: Red Hat's take:

Doug McGarrett
At 09:29 PM 11/8/2006 -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote:

>Content-Disposition: inline
>
>On Wednesday 08 November 2006 20:30, JJ Gitties wrote:
>> ...
>>
>> eh.h.. doesn't really count. that era of tech history is littered
>> with these kinds of moves and stories. anyone remember Borland?
>
><http://www.borland.com/>
>
>Rumors of their death are greatly exaggerated.
>

Oh, yeah?  Try and buy a copy of Turbo Pascal, or Eureka.
Whatever they might be doing now is no help to me.
--dm


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Re: Red Hat's take:

Jos van Kan
Doug McGarrett wrote:

> At 09:29 PM 11/8/2006 -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote:
>> Content-Disposition: inline
>>
>> On Wednesday 08 November 2006 20:30, JJ Gitties wrote:
>>> ...
>>>
>>> eh.h.. doesn't really count. that era of tech history is littered
>>> with these kinds of moves and stories. anyone remember Borland?
>> <http://www.borland.com/>
>>
>> Rumors of their death are greatly exaggerated.
>>
>
> Oh, yeah?  Try and buy a copy of Turbo Pascal, or Eureka.
> Whatever they might be doing now is no help to me.

In what age do you live? Try and buy Suse 5.1! Turbo Pascal has evolved to Turbo
Delphi. Pricetag a bit high though at $400. :-( MS-Windows only. Unfortunately
the Kylix project has run aground and is no longer supported.

BTW I have BP 7.0 running on dosemu, but I never use it.

Regards,
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Re: Red Hat's take:

Jos van Kan
Jos van Kan wrote:

>
> Turbo Pascal has evolved to Turbo
> Delphi. Pricetag a bit high though at $400. :-( MS-Windows only.
>

Correction. There is an Explorer version (which appears rich enough) that is free.
http://www.turboexplorer.com

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Re: Red Hat's take:

Doug McGarrett
At 10:37 AM 11/9/2006 +0100, Jos van Kan wrote:
>
>Jos van Kan wrote:
>
>>
>> Turbo Pascal has evolved to Turbo
>> Delphi. Pricetag a bit high though at $400. :-( MS-Windows only.
>>
>
>Correction. There is an Explorer version (which appears rich enough) that
is free.
>http://www.turboexplorer.com
>
>Regards,
>--
>Jos van Kan                registered Linux user #152704

Once, I actually wrote some code.  Not an awful lot, and not as my
prime occupation, but I actually _wrote_ code, and compiled it.  I
did not "drag and drop" stuff, and when Visual Basic and Delphi
came along I knew I was out of the game.  I still have a Kylix disk,
somewhere, but it might as well be Chinese.  I never learned C, or
C++, so I guess that I will never code again.  Well, I'm retired,
and I really don't have to anymore.  Besides, anything anyone needs
to calculate anymore is done by people who understand Excel.
Phooey!

--doug


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Re: Red Hat's take:

James Knott
In reply to this post by Doug McGarrett
Doug McGarrett wrote:

> Oh, yeah?  Try and buy a copy of Turbo Pascal, or Eureka.
> Whatever they might be doing now is no help to me.

Try to buy anyone's Pascal.  It appears to be a dead language these days.

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Re: Red Hat's take:

James Knott
In reply to this post by Jos van Kan
Jos van Kan wrote:
> Jos van Kan wrote:
>
>> Turbo Pascal has evolved to Turbo
>> Delphi. Pricetag a bit high though at $400. :-( MS-Windows only.
>>
>
> Correction. There is an Explorer version (which appears rich enough) that is free.
> http://www.turboexplorer.com

We used Turbo C++ for DOS in a C programming course I took several years
ago.  Back then, I did my homework on Borland C++ for OS/2.  I had to be
careful about things like different integer sizes etc.


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