Re: [opensuse-project] Re: [security-announce] openSUSE Leap 42.1 has reached end of SUSE support

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Re: [opensuse-project] Re: [security-announce] openSUSE Leap 42.1 has reached end of SUSE support

Michal Kubecek
On Wednesday, 17 May 2017 15:18 Mathias Homann wrote:
> ...have we at any time in the past ever had a situation where there
> was only ONE version of openSUSE officially supported?
>
> I mean, Leap 42.3 is not out yet...

Current situation is quite different from what we had earlier. In the
old model, each new version was really new, forked fresh from Factory,
so that there was in actually no real "major" and "minor" version. As
new versions came each 6 or 8 months (more or less), noone could blame
users who did not want to do a full upgrade to new codebase so often.
That's why there was an overlap between [n] and [n+2], so that you could
skip e.g. 12.2 and upgrade directly from 12.1 to 12.3 without losing
support at any moment.

With Leap 42.x, core packages (mostly) follow SLE ones where the policy
is that upgrading in a new service pack should be well reasoned, not
just "hey, there is a new upstream version". And this logic should apply
to most of the distribution - or at least that is the plan. There are
exceptions, of course, as some packages do not fit into this model well
and some maintainers do not agree with this policy, but in general, Leap
42.x and 42.(x+1) should be much closer to each other than e.g. 12.1 and
12.2. Therefore users should fear upgrading to next point release less
and it should make much less sense to skip 42.2 and upgrade 42.1 systems
directly to 42.3.

What is a different story, though, is moving to new major version with
completely new codebase. IMHO we should think very carefully about the
overlap of lifetimes of last 42.x and 43.0/15.0/whatever it is called.
IMHO it would make good sense to have longer overlap (12 months?)
between those.

                                                        Michal Kubeček

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Re: [opensuse-project] Re: [security-announce] openSUSE Leap 42.1 has reached end of SUSE support

Harald Koenig
On May 18, Michal Kubecek wrote:

> ... but in general, Leap
> 42.x and 42.(x+1) should be much closer to each other than e.g. 12.1 and
> 12.2. Therefore users should fear upgrading to next point release less
> and it should make much less sense to skip 42.2 and upgrade 42.1 systems
> directly to 42.3.

in general I understand and agree.

BUT I still have some 42.1 systems running just fine, and esp. now
with 42.x and 42.(x+1) being "much closer", it would be nice (for
us lazy admins with "legacy" 42.1 systems;) to skip the effort of
upgrading to an intermeadiate 42.2 just to reach 42.3 RSN...

so either I have to ignore the 42.1 EOL and cross fingers while waiting for 42.3 being released,
or there'll be 2 upgrades to be scheduled within short period (as I aim for 42.3 on all systems...)


just my 0.02 EUR ;-)

Harald
--
"I hope to die                                      ___       _____
before I *have* to use Microsoft Word.",           0--,|    /OOOOOOO\
Donald E. Knuth, 02-Oct-2001 in Tuebingen.        <_/  /  /OOOOOOOOOOO\
                                                    \  \/OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO\
                                                      \ OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO|//
                                                       \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Harald Koenig                                           //  /     \\  \
[hidden email]                     ^^^^^       ^^^^^
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Re: [opensuse-project] Re: [security-announce] openSUSE Leap 42.1 has reached end of SUSE support

Chris Ellis
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 7:29 PM, Harald Koenig
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On May 18, Michal Kubecek wrote:
>
>> ... but in general, Leap
>> 42.x and 42.(x+1) should be much closer to each other than e.g. 12.1 and
>> 12.2. Therefore users should fear upgrading to next point release less
>> and it should make much less sense to skip 42.2 and upgrade 42.1 systems
>> directly to 42.3.
>
> in general I understand and agree.
>
> BUT I still have some 42.1 systems running just fine, and esp. now
> with 42.x and 42.(x+1) being "much closer", it would be nice (for
> us lazy admins with "legacy" 42.1 systems;) to skip the effort of
> upgrading to an intermeadiate 42.2 just to reach 42.3 RSN...
>
> so either I have to ignore the 42.1 EOL and cross fingers while waiting for 42.3 being released,
> or there'll be 2 upgrades to be scheduled within short period (as I aim for 42.3 on all systems...)

Hi

As a general principal if an upgrade is an issue then the systems are
not engineered correctly.

You should be able to break something without risk.

It is more important to get used to change than expect a stable steady state.

Regards,
Chris


>
>
> just my 0.02 EUR ;-)
>
> Harald
> --
> "I hope to die                                      ___       _____
> before I *have* to use Microsoft Word.",           0--,|    /OOOOOOO\
> Donald E. Knuth, 02-Oct-2001 in Tuebingen.        <_/  /  /OOOOOOOOOOO\
>                                                     \  \/OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO\
>                                                       \ OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO|//
>                                                        \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
> Harald Koenig                                           //  /     \\  \
> [hidden email]                     ^^^^^       ^^^^^
> --
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Re: [opensuse-project] Re: [security-announce] openSUSE Leap 42.1 has reached end of SUSE support

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Harald Koenig
On 2017-05-18 20:29, Harald Koenig wrote:

> On May 18, Michal Kubecek wrote:
>
>> ... but in general, Leap
>> 42.x and 42.(x+1) should be much closer to each other than e.g. 12.1 and
>> 12.2. Therefore users should fear upgrading to next point release less
>> and it should make much less sense to skip 42.2 and upgrade 42.1 systems
>> directly to 42.3.
>
> in general I understand and agree.
>
> BUT I still have some 42.1 systems running just fine, and esp. now
> with 42.x and 42.(x+1) being "much closer", it would be nice (for
> us lazy admins with "legacy" 42.1 systems;) to skip the effort of
> upgrading to an intermeadiate 42.2 just to reach 42.3 RSN...
>
> so either I have to ignore the 42.1 EOL and cross fingers while waiting for 42.3 being released,
> or there'll be 2 upgrades to be scheduled within short period (as I aim for 42.3 on all systems...)
Theoretically the upgrade from 42.1 to 42.2 is trivial :-)

I have to say that it was the easiest I have done.

--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

  (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))


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Re: [opensuse-project] Re: [security-announce] openSUSE Leap 42.1 has reached end of SUSE support

Harald Koenig
On May 19, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> > so either I have to ignore the 42.1 EOL and cross fingers while waiting for 42.3 being released,
> > or there'll be 2 upgrades to be scheduled within short period (as I aim for 42.3 on all systems...)
>
> Theoretically the upgrade from 42.1 to 42.2 is trivial :-)
>
> I have to say that it was the easiest I have done.

true. must of my systems do run 42.2

it's mostly about worktime, and downtime. one of my 42.1 servers just had an uptime
of 420+ days before a long power outage last weekend. if this wouldn't have happend
that server was planned to directly be upgraded and booted into 42.3
without any [upgrade] work or downtime before...

updates are always prepared and done on a 2nd system and boot partition to allow
immeadiate fallback in case of trouble (and yes we had trouble e.g. with new grub
and some server bios versions at boot time before...).


Harald
--
"I hope to die                                      ___       _____
before I *have* to use Microsoft Word.",           0--,|    /OOOOOOO\
Donald E. Knuth, 02-Oct-2001 in Tuebingen.        <_/  /  /OOOOOOOOOOO\
                                                    \  \/OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO\
                                                      \ OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO|//
                                                       \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Harald Koenig                                           //  /     \\  \
[hidden email]                     ^^^^^       ^^^^^
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Re: [opensuse-project] Re: [security-announce] openSUSE Leap 42.1 has reached end of SUSE support

Marcus Meissner
Hi,

The lifetime is pretty much something the openSUSE project team decides, not so much the security team.

(So better use the -project list ;)

Currently Leap also aligns with the regular maintenance lifetimes of SLES service packs too, and 12-SP1
(which 42.1 contains to some degree) goes into extended maintenance May 30th.

Ciao, Marcus


On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 08:59:12AM +0200, Harald Koenig wrote:

> On May 19, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
> > > so either I have to ignore the 42.1 EOL and cross fingers while waiting for 42.3 being released,
> > > or there'll be 2 upgrades to be scheduled within short period (as I aim for 42.3 on all systems...)
> >
> > Theoretically the upgrade from 42.1 to 42.2 is trivial :-)
> >
> > I have to say that it was the easiest I have done.
>
> true. must of my systems do run 42.2
>
> it's mostly about worktime, and downtime. one of my 42.1 servers just had an uptime
> of 420+ days before a long power outage last weekend. if this wouldn't have happend
> that server was planned to directly be upgraded and booted into 42.3
> without any [upgrade] work or downtime before...
>
> updates are always prepared and done on a 2nd system and boot partition to allow
> immeadiate fallback in case of trouble (and yes we had trouble e.g. with new grub
> and some server bios versions at boot time before...).
>
>
> Harald
> --
> "I hope to die                                      ___       _____
> before I *have* to use Microsoft Word.",           0--,|    /OOOOOOO\
> Donald E. Knuth, 02-Oct-2001 in Tuebingen.        <_/  /  /OOOOOOOOOOO\
>                                                     \  \/OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO\
>                                                       \ OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO|//
>                                                        \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
> Harald Koenig                                           //  /     \\  \
> [hidden email]                     ^^^^^       ^^^^^
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]
>

--
Marcus Meissner,SUSE LINUX GmbH; Maxfeldstrasse 5; D-90409 Nuernberg; Zi. 3.1-33,+49-911-740 53-432,,serv=loki,mail=wotan,type=real <[hidden email]>
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Re: [opensuse-project] Re: [security-announce] openSUSE Leap 42.1 has reached end of SUSE support

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Harald Koenig
On 2017-05-19 08:59, Harald Koenig wrote:
> On May 19, Carlos E. R. wrote:


> updates are always prepared and done on a 2nd system and boot partition to allow
> immeadiate fallback in case of trouble (and yes we had trouble e.g. with new grub
> and some server bios versions at boot time before...).

What do you do, update machine two, test, then update machine one?

--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

  (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))


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(maybe OT) Sattellite? (was: Re: [opensuse-security] Re: [opensuse-project] Re: [security-announce] openSUSE Leap 42.1 has reached end of SUSE support)

Mathias Homann-2
In reply to this post by Harald Koenig
Am Freitag, 19. Mai 2017, 08:59:12 CEST schrieb Harald Koenig:

> updates are always prepared and done on a 2nd system and boot partition to
> allow immeadiate fallback in case of trouble (and yes we had trouble e.g.
> with new grub and some server bios versions at boot time before...).

Might be OT,  or at least worth a new thread, but...

Does anyone here know something like the red hat satellite server for
opensuse?

Cheers
Mathias

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