Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

Andreas Jaeger
Janne Karhunen <[hidden email]> writes:

> On Thursday 03 August 2006 06:16, Andreas Hanke wrote:
>
>> The difference between openSUSE and SUSE Linux is:
>
> Naming is completely irrelevant. Call it 'the flying elephant'
> if it makes someone happier. Half of the discussions on this
> list seem to concern naming and thats just nuts.
>
> However, it is of interest if the amount of effort put into
> fixing bugs ('productifying') SUSE will remain on the same
> level it was before. Would guess that yes, it will - you'll
> keep the 'openSUSE' and the 'enterprise' version roughly in
> sync?
SUSE Linux 10.1 and SLED10/SLES10 are in sync.

Now we work on openSUSE 10.2, 10.3, ... and at one time an openSUSE
release (let's say 11.1) will be in sync with SLED11/SLES11.  So, they
are in sync, *if* there's an enterprise release.  We do not sync with
Service Packs - e.g. the SLES10 SP1 will not be synced with anything
since openSUSE moves forward...

Andreas
--
 Andreas Jaeger, [hidden email], http://www.suse.de/~aj/
  SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
   GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F  FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

Silviu Marin-Caea-2
On Thursday 03 August 2006 17:52, Per Jessen wrote:

> Actually it's not - not for the problem you described wrt the winmodem.
> A corporate executive does not get to see his laptop until it works
> perfectly.  His paid Linux support-staff will have 1) installed
> OpenSUSE

Worng! WORNG!

A corporate executive must have SLED10.  Not openSUSE, not SUSE Linux.


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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

Per Jessen
Silviu Marin-Caea wrote:

> On Thursday 03 August 2006 17:52, Per Jessen wrote:
>
>> Actually it's not - not for the problem you described wrt the
>> winmodem. A corporate executive does not get to see his laptop until
>> it works perfectly.  His paid Linux support-staff will have 1)
>> installed  OpenSUSE
>
> Worng! WORNG!
>
> A corporate executive must have SLED10.  Not openSUSE, not SUSE Linux.

Would you care to elaborate?  Whether or not an enterprise uses SLED or
openSUSE is only a matter of IT policy, not features nor anything else.
If the stability, service and support of SLED is preferred, then
obviously one should chose SLED, otherwise there's no reason to.


/Per Jessen, Zürich


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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

Martin Schlander-2
In reply to this post by Andreas Jaeger
Onsdag 02 august 2006 16:37 skrev SOTL:
> Back to the subject (above) you can read all about it by reading the
> article Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu
> at:
> Free Software Magazine
> http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/editorial_13

I was quick to dismiss claims that SUSE/Novell would make the same mistake as
Red Hat and more or less quit having a good stable product for home and small
offices.

Now I'm concerned again though - just listened to Novell Open Audio -
episode: "SLE 10: Top 5 reasons for SUSE Linux Enterprise 10".

In this episode Ted Haeger kindly explains to us the difference between SLE 10
and "openSUSE" as he's always liked to call it.

Apparently SUSE Linux is a bleeding edge distro, only aimed at Linux geeks -
with only one purpose - namely testing and maturing stuff for SLE.

Not one word about (open)SUSE being a nice and stable distro that's supposed
to increase use of Linux at home and small offices.

Of course the openSUSE-project description states: "We work together to create
and distribute the world's most usable Linux." I must have gotten this
wrong - I thought we were working together to make (open)SUSE better - but
apparently the Linux-distro we're making usable is SLE. Nice of Ted Haeger to
inform us what's going on in and around Novell.

Someone please tell me, that this man is _wrong_.

Martin

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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

Dominique Leuenberger-2
In reply to this post by Andreas Jaeger


>>> [hidden email] 07-08-2006 17:20 >>>
>Of course the openSUSE-project description states: "We work together
to create
>and distribute the world's most usable Linux." I must have gotten this

>wrong - I thought we were working together to make (open)SUSE better -
but
>apparently the Linux-distro we're making usable is SLE. Nice of Ted
Haeger to
>inform us what's going on in and around Novell.
>
>Someone please tell me, that this man is _wrong_.
>
>Martin

Martin,
 
I might be wrong, but I always saw openSUSE and SLE{D,P} being close
together.
I mean, after all, SuSE / Novell is a very active part of the openSUSE
Project and is investing work hours (thus money) in it. If they want to
develop openSUSE besides their SLE{D,P} products, they could not afford
it at all.
 
After all, it depends a lot on the community how solid openSUSE is and
will be in the future! Together with SuSE / Novell WE can make the best
Distro on the market!
 
BUT: This requires us to be much more helpful especially during Alpha /
Beta testing! Don't just deny installing the previews, because they ARE
buggy. Install it, write down all the informations for bugs and submit
them to Bugzilla.
 
Of course Novell will take one or the other version as a SnapShot for
the Enterprise line. With a bit more around, a bit tighter...
What's wrong about this?
 
Dominique
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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

SOTL-2
In reply to this post by Per Jessen
Gee I do not know what companies you work for but all of electrical
engineer companies I have worked for we had to ascertain what equipment
would do the job, ascertain what software was required to perform the
stated function, purchase the equipment, install the software, make the
soft ware work, and do this while making a profit for the division or we
were out the door.

Per Jessen wrote:

>>On Thursday 03 August 2006 17:52, Per Jessen wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Actually it's not - not for the problem you described wrt the
>>>winmodem. A corporate executive does not get to see his laptop until
>>>it works perfectly.  His paid Linux support-staff will have 1)
>>>installed  OpenSUSE
>>>      
>>>

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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

SOTL-2
In reply to this post by Martin Schlander-2
Martin Schlander wrote:

>Onsdag 02 august 2006 16:37 skrev SOTL:
>  
>
>>Back to the subject (above) you can read all about it by reading the
>>article Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu
>>at:
>>Free Software Magazine
>>http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/editorial_13
>>    
>>
>
>I was quick to dismiss claims that SUSE/Novell would make the same mistake as
>Red Hat and more or less quit having a good stable product for home and small
>offices.
>
>Now I'm concerned again though - just listened to Novell Open Audio -
>episode: "SLE 10: Top 5 reasons for SUSE Linux Enterprise 10".
>
>In this episode Ted Haeger kindly explains to us the difference between SLE 10
>and "openSUSE" as he's always liked to call it.
>
>Apparently SUSE Linux is a bleeding edge distro, only aimed at Linux geeks -
>with only one purpose - namely testing and maturing stuff for SLE.
>
>Not one word about (open)SUSE being a nice and stable distro that's supposed
>to increase use of Linux at home and small offices.
>
>Of course the openSUSE-project description states: "We work together to create
>and distribute the world's most usable Linux." I must have gotten this
>wrong - I thought we were working together to make (open)SUSE better - but
>apparently the Linux-distro we're making usable is SLE. Nice of Ted Haeger to
>inform us what's going on in and around Novell.
>
>Someone please tell me, that this man is _wrong_.
>
>Martin
>
>
>  
>
He is not wrong.

He is oh so very very right.

This is the exact attitude that crashed Mandrake and the Mandrake list.






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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

Marcus Meissner
On Mon, Aug 07, 2006 at 10:50:29AM -0400, SOTL wrote:

> Martin Schlander wrote:
>
> >Onsdag 02 august 2006 16:37 skrev SOTL:
> >
> >
> >>Back to the subject (above) you can read all about it by reading the
> >>article Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu
> >>at:
> >>Free Software Magazine
> >>http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/editorial_13
> >>  
> >>
> >
> >I was quick to dismiss claims that SUSE/Novell would make the same mistake
> >as Red Hat and more or less quit having a good stable product for home and
> >small offices.
> >
> >Now I'm concerned again though - just listened to Novell Open Audio -
> >episode: "SLE 10: Top 5 reasons for SUSE Linux Enterprise 10".
> >
> >In this episode Ted Haeger kindly explains to us the difference between
> >SLE 10 and "openSUSE" as he's always liked to call it.
> >
> >Apparently SUSE Linux is a bleeding edge distro, only aimed at Linux geeks
> >- with only one purpose - namely testing and maturing stuff for SLE.
> >
> >Not one word about (open)SUSE being a nice and stable distro that's
> >supposed to increase use of Linux at home and small offices.
> >
> >Of course the openSUSE-project description states: "We work together to
> >create and distribute the world's most usable Linux." I must have gotten
> >this wrong - I thought we were working together to make (open)SUSE better
> >- but apparently the Linux-distro we're making usable is SLE. Nice of Ted
> >Haeger to inform us what's going on in and around Novell.
> >
> >Someone please tell me, that this man is _wrong_.
> >
> >Martin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> He is not wrong.
>
> He is oh so very very right.
>
> This is the exact attitude that crashed Mandrake and the Mandrake list.

At least we at SUSE do not see it this way yet.

Ciao, Marcus

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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

SOTL-2
In reply to this post by Dominique Leuenberger-2
Dominique Leuenberger wrote:

>  
>
>>>>[hidden email] 07-08-2006 17:20 >>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>Of course the openSUSE-project description states: "We work together
>>    
>>
>to create
>  
>
>>and distribute the world's most usable Linux." I must have gotten this
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>wrong - I thought we were working together to make (open)SUSE better -
>>    
>>
>but
>  
>
>>apparently the Linux-distro we're making usable is SLE. Nice of Ted
>>    
>>
>Haeger to
>  
>
>>inform us what's going on in and around Novell.
>>
>>Someone please tell me, that this man is _wrong_.
>>
>>Martin
>>    
>>
>
>Martin,
>
>I might be wrong, but I always saw openSUSE and SLE{D,P} being close
>together.
>I mean, after all, SuSE / Novell is a very active part of the openSUSE
>Project and is investing work hours (thus money) in it. If they want to
>develop openSUSE besides their SLE{D,P} products, they could not afford
>it at all.
>
>After all, it depends a lot on the community how solid openSUSE is and
>will be in the future! Together with SuSE / Novell WE can make the best
>Distro on the market!
>
>BUT: This requires us to be much more helpful especially during Alpha /
>Beta testing! Don't just deny installing the previews, because they ARE
>buggy. Install it, write down all the informations for bugs and submit
>them to Bugzilla.
>
>Of course Novell will take one or the other version as a SnapShot for
>the Enterprise line. With a bit more around, a bit tighter...
>What's wrong about this?
>
>Dominique
>
>  
>
Nothing as long as the bugs are fixed.

The fact that the bugs are not being fixes and that the final product is
not fully and completely operation is the issue which is because of the
methiod of development which is so un Linux. Go look at the kernel list
and you will see that changes are made in small steps not grandious
leaps. A principal idea is don't break the make 9with one changes). That
idea needs to be incorporated in the distributions. Don't break the
distribution with the updates.

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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

Renegade Penguin
In reply to this post by SOTL-2
Nope, he's not wrong, unfortunately.  Mandriva suffered this fate, and
Suse/Novell are suffering the same fate.  It will take a while, but it's
getting there.

You have to realize that just because something is community oriented
doesn't mean that money isn't creeping in somewhere.

Microsoft is starting to give away loads of cash, because they are done
innovating, and don't need to put it into research any longer.  These
things go in cycles, unfortunately.  ALL commercial companies suffer
this fate.

RP

SOTL wrote:

>
>> I was quick to dismiss claims that SUSE/Novell would make the same
>> mistake as Red Hat and more or less quit having a good stable product
>> for home and small offices.
>>
>> Now I'm concerned again though - just listened to Novell Open Audio -
>> episode: "SLE 10: Top 5 reasons for SUSE Linux Enterprise 10".
>>
>> In this episode Ted Haeger kindly explains to us the difference
>> between SLE 10 and "openSUSE" as he's always liked to call it.
>> Apparently SUSE Linux is a bleeding edge distro, only aimed at Linux
>> geeks - with only one purpose - namely testing and maturing stuff for
>> SLE.
>> Not one word about (open)SUSE being a nice and stable distro that's
>> supposed to increase use of Linux at home and small offices.
>>
>> Of course the openSUSE-project description states: "We work together
>> to create and distribute the world's most usable Linux." I must have
>> gotten this wrong - I thought we were working together to make
>> (open)SUSE better - but apparently the Linux-distro we're making
>> usable is SLE. Nice of Ted Haeger to inform us what's going on in and
>> around Novell.
>>
>> Someone please tell me, that this man is _wrong_.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>  
>>
> He is not wrong.
>
> He is oh so very very right.
>
> This is the exact attitude that crashed Mandrake and the Mandrake list.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>

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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

SOTL-2
In reply to this post by Marcus Meissner
Marcus Meissner wrote:

>On Mon, Aug 07, 2006 at 10:50:29AM -0400, SOTL wrote:
>  
>
>>Martin Schlander wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Onsdag 02 august 2006 16:37 skrev SOTL:
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Back to the subject (above) you can read all about it by reading the
>>>>article Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu
>>>>at:
>>>>Free Software Magazine
>>>>http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/editorial_13
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>I was quick to dismiss claims that SUSE/Novell would make the same mistake
>>>as Red Hat and more or less quit having a good stable product for home and
>>>small offices.
>>>
>>>Now I'm concerned again though - just listened to Novell Open Audio -
>>>episode: "SLE 10: Top 5 reasons for SUSE Linux Enterprise 10".
>>>
>>>In this episode Ted Haeger kindly explains to us the difference between
>>>SLE 10 and "openSUSE" as he's always liked to call it.
>>>
>>>Apparently SUSE Linux is a bleeding edge distro, only aimed at Linux geeks
>>>- with only one purpose - namely testing and maturing stuff for SLE.
>>>
>>>Not one word about (open)SUSE being a nice and stable distro that's
>>>supposed to increase use of Linux at home and small offices.
>>>
>>>Of course the openSUSE-project description states: "We work together to
>>>create and distribute the world's most usable Linux." I must have gotten
>>>this wrong - I thought we were working together to make (open)SUSE better
>>>- but apparently the Linux-distro we're making usable is SLE. Nice of Ted
>>>Haeger to inform us what's going on in and around Novell.
>>>
>>>Someone please tell me, that this man is _wrong_.
>>>
>>>Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>He is not wrong.
>>
>>He is oh so very very right.
>>
>>This is the exact attitude that crashed Mandrake and the Mandrake list.
>>    
>>
>
>At least we at SUSE do not see it this way yet.
>
>Ciao, Marcus
>
>
>  
>
That is the problem - the belief that this happens to everybody else but
we ar immune.

Latest update on original article at Slash Dot @

http://interviews.slashdot.org/interviews/06/08/07/1236257.shtml

Fedora Project <http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/> Leader Max Spevack
<http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MaxSpevack> offered himself up for this
interview because, he said, "I look at stories like [your] posting
Ubuntu to Bring About Red Hat's Demise
<http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/06/08/02/0238233.shtml?tid=110> and
many of the comments about Red Hat and Fedora seem very rooted in the
world of several years ago, when the RHEL/Fedora split took place."

Which would bring the article directly in line with SuSE today.




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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

Martin Schlander-2
In reply to this post by Marcus Meissner
Mandag 07 august 2006 16:54 skrev Marcus Meissner:

> > Martin Schlander wrote:
> > >Apparently SUSE Linux is a bleeding edge distro, only aimed at Linux
> > > geeks - with only one purpose - namely testing and maturing stuff for
> > > SLE.
> > >
> > >Not one word about (open)SUSE being a nice and stable distro that's
> > >supposed to increase use of Linux at home and small offices.
> > >
> > >Someone please tell me, that this man is _wrong_.
>
> At least we at SUSE do not see it this way yet.
>
> Ciao, Marcus

Nice to hear you say it, Marcus.

Martin

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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

Per Jessen
In reply to this post by SOTL-2
SOTL wrote:

>>Of course Novell will take one or the other version as a SnapShot for
>>the Enterprise line. With a bit more around, a bit tighter...
>>What's wrong about this?
>>
>>Dominique
>>
>>  
>>
> Nothing as long as the bugs are fixed.

And they are.  I think I've got one, maybe two outstanding reports on
alpha2.  And one on 10.1 too.  All the rest have been fixed.

> The fact that the bugs are not being fixed

I would suggest you substantiate that claim.  Perhaps you could provide
a list of unfixed reports?


/Per Jessen, Zürich


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SPAM: Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

Per Jessen
In reply to this post by SOTL-2
SOTL wrote:

> Gee I do not know what companies you work

I work for/run/own my own company with just short of 20 staff.  

> for but all of electrical engineer companies I have worked for we had
> to ascertain what equipment would do the job, ascertain what software
> was required to perform the stated function, purchase the equipment,
> install the software, make the soft ware work, and do this while
> making a profit for the division or we were out the door.

And your point is?  (and btw, please don't top-post)



/Per Jessen, Zürich


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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

SOTL-2
In reply to this post by Per Jessen
Per Jessen wrote:

>SOTL wrote:
>
>  
>
>>>Of course Novell will take one or the other version as a SnapShot for
>>>the Enterprise line. With a bit more around, a bit tighter...
>>>What's wrong about this?
>>>
>>>Dominique
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Nothing as long as the bugs are fixed.
>>    
>>
>
>And they are.  I think I've got one, maybe two outstanding reports on
>alpha2.  And one on 10.1 too.  All the rest have been fixed.
>
>  
>
>>The fact that the bugs are not being fixed
>>    
>>
>
>I would suggest you substantiate that claim.  Perhaps you could provide
>a list of unfixed reports?
>
>
>/Per Jessen, Zürich
>
>
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>  
>
Easy enough if you check your files..

Go back check your bug file and you will find that I submitted a bug
report on the modem issue at the OpenSuSE Beta 9 level. That is
significant as I received a email back stating that the email issue
would only be fixed in the commerical version of SuSE 10.1. I purchased
the commerical version of SuSE 10.1 and guess what the modem still does
not work.

email address was either sotl155360 or s0tl155360 @earthlink.net



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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

Silviu Marin-Caea-2
In reply to this post by Per Jessen
On Monday 07 August 2006 15:52, Per Jessen wrote:

> Would you care to elaborate?  Whether or not an enterprise uses SLED or
> openSUSE is only a matter of IT policy, not features nor anything else.
> If the stability, service and support of SLED is preferred

I would think that for a corporate executive's laptop, stability, service and
support of SLED is preferred.

You seem to view things only from a position of administering a small IT
environment.  Even so, it's no fun reinstalling stations every two years,
when the consummer distro is out of maintenance.


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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

T. Lodewick
In reply to this post by SOTL-2
SOTL schrieb:

> Per Jessen wrote:
>
>> SOTL wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>>> Of course Novell will take one or the other version as a SnapShot for
>>>> the Enterprise line. With a bit more around, a bit tighter...
>>>> What's wrong about this?
>>>>
>>>> Dominique
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    
>>> Nothing as long as the bugs are fixed.
>>>  
>>
>> And they are.  I think I've got one, maybe two outstanding reports on
>> alpha2.  And one on 10.1 too.  All the rest have been fixed.
>>
>>  
>>
>>> The fact that the bugs are not being fixed
>>>  
>>
>> I would suggest you substantiate that claim.  Perhaps you could provide
>> a list of unfixed reports?
>>
>> /Per Jessen, Zürich
>>
>>
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>>
>>  
>>
> Easy enough if you check your files..
>
> Go back check your bug file and you will find that I submitted a bug
> report on the modem issue at the OpenSuSE Beta 9 level. That is
> significant as I received a email back stating that the email issue
> would only be fixed in the commerical version of SuSE 10.1. I purchased
> the commerical version of SuSE 10.1 and guess what the modem still does
> not work.
>
> email address was either sotl155360 or s0tl155360 @earthlink.net
>
>
>
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so, after you told us a lot of things like a story about a man and a
dog, how IT-stuff should be done ( btw: in the last 15 years I have
never worked the way you told us, and even now as I have my owen office
I and the others here don't work that way ),and a few other things I
didn't remember because it get in and out of mind - after all I have one
- for me last - question:

was there any constructive steps you have done after you checked the
commercial versionand found the modem still not working ? anything you
have done instead of "rumbeling" on this list ? any eMail / contact to
Novell to fix the problem ? asking someone on the list on a constructive
way to get your modem working ?

JBScout aka Thomy

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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

SOTL-2
In reply to this post by Silviu Marin-Caea-2
Silviu Marin-Caea wrote:

>On Monday 07 August 2006 15:52, Per Jessen wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Would you care to elaborate?  Whether or not an enterprise uses SLED or
>>openSUSE is only a matter of IT policy, not features nor anything else.
>>    
>>
The above would be nice if it were true but it is not true.

OpenSuSE does not contain any non open source programs ie ones that may
not be used without paying royalties.

SLED is a commercial program which does contain non open source programs
ie ones in which one must pay royalties to use.

If you do not need the non open source programs then of course they are
then equivalent but if of course you need such programs to make your
system work then they are not equivalent.

Last I heard most win modem programs are non open source.

That would seem to imply that if one wanted a laptop to use its internal
to connect to the internet and that one was not a geek then would need
to purchase SuSE.

Apparently it is very difficult for people to understand that there are
two ways of making an operating system work - become a geek or pay a
geek to do the work.

If one has different interest say is a medical doctor et then one feel
of expertise is not being a geek meaning that it is preferable to pay
someone else to be the geek.

Realize OpenSuSE is a geek thing.

SLED is a non geek thing. That is the program that geeks sell to non
geeks who have no desires to be a geek so that the geeks can buy non
geek things like food and bear.

Very simple stuff. No sale of non geek programs to non geeks then the
geeks do not get to eat or drink bear.


>>If the stability, service and support of SLED is preferred
>>    
>>
>
>I would think that for a corporate executive's laptop, stability, service and
>support of SLED is preferred.
>
>You seem to view things only from a position of administering a small IT
>environment.  Even so, it's no fun reinstalling stations every two years,
>when the consummer distro is out of maintenance.
>
>
>  
>


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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

Marcus Meissner
On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 10:04:00AM -0400, SOTL wrote:

> Silviu Marin-Caea wrote:
>
> >On Monday 07 August 2006 15:52, Per Jessen wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Would you care to elaborate?  Whether or not an enterprise uses SLED or
> >>openSUSE is only a matter of IT policy, not features nor anything else.
> >>  
> >>
> The above would be nice if it were true but it is not true.
>
> OpenSuSE does not contain any non open source programs ie ones that may
> not be used without paying royalties.
>
> SLED is a commercial program which does contain non open source programs
> ie ones in which one must pay royalties to use.
>
> If you do not need the non open source programs then of course they are
> then equivalent but if of course you need such programs to make your
> system work then they are not equivalent.
>
> Last I heard most win modem programs are non open source.

SLED does not have binary only kernel modules either (with 1 exception),
so no WinModem binary support in SLED 10.

> That would seem to imply that if one wanted a laptop to use its internal
> to connect to the internet and that one was not a geek then would need
> to purchase SuSE.

We would really like to make everything work out of the box but
we have to work with the current laws. Paying us does not help here.

Ciao, Marcus

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Re: Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu

SOTL-2
In reply to this post by T. Lodewick
T. Lodewick wrote:

>SOTL schrieb:
>  
>
>>Per Jessen wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>SOTL wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>Of course Novell will take one or the other version as a SnapShot for
>>>>>the Enterprise line. With a bit more around, a bit tighter...
>>>>>What's wrong about this?
>>>>>
>>>>>Dominique
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>Nothing as long as the bugs are fixed.
>>>>  
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>And they are.  I think I've got one, maybe two outstanding reports on
>>>alpha2.  And one on 10.1 too.  All the rest have been fixed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>The fact that the bugs are not being fixed
>>>>  
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>I would suggest you substantiate that claim.  Perhaps you could provide
>>>a list of unfixed reports?
>>>
>>>/Per Jessen, Zürich
>>>
>>>
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>>>      
>>>
>>Easy enough if you check your files..
>>
>>Go back check your bug file and you will find that I submitted a bug
>>report on the modem issue at the OpenSuSE Beta 9 level. That is
>>significant as I received a email back stating that the email issue
>>would only be fixed in the commerical version of SuSE 10.1. I purchased
>>the commerical version of SuSE 10.1 and guess what the modem still does
>>not work.
>>
>>email address was either sotl155360 or s0tl155360 @earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
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>>    
>>
>
>so, after you told us a lot of things like a story about a man and a
>dog, how IT-stuff should be done ( btw: in the last 15 years I have
>never worked the way you told us, and even now as I have my owen office
>I and the others here don't work that way ),and a few other things I
>didn't remember because it get in and out of mind - after all I have one
>- for me last - question:
>
>was there any constructive steps you have done after you checked the
>commercial versionand found the modem still not working ? anything you
>have done instead of "rumbeling" on this list ? any eMail / contact to
>Novell to fix the problem ? asking someone on the list on a constructive
>way to get your modem working ?
>
>JBScout aka Thomy
>
>  
>
I do not keep logs of everything I do under a dozen different email
addresses but that does not mean that I forgot everything I do so I you
are expecting a geek type log forget it.

I have reported 30 or so bugs under at least 3 different log in to SuSE
about various issues with 10.1.
Why not use the same login - simple they are password protected and I
keep loosing the password and log in information in my updates.

Back to the modem

The modem cuts to the vary hart of the issue.
I have had modems connecting to the internet since the Red Hat 5.x days
so it is an old issue that did work that does not not now work and is
critical to the usage of internet connection for the majority of people
connecting to the internet. Geeks, corporations, et tend to have DSL
connections. Corporate executives and many engineers tend to travel
around. Great. Some times if one is lucky the office, hotel, library et
such people happen to be in have WiFi other times a cable connection is
available many times the only connection is good old dial up by long
distance. I know been there, done that. Now if one is fortunate enough
to be able to connect to the internet by WiFi say at a local library
that does not mean that one is able to send email or and attached files.
Most often the sending of email is blocked at such locations. Yes
sometimes one can send email by a browser and again some times not. Been
there done that. Some times when you are lucky it works; some times when
you have an ass or an ignoramus for an IT administrator it does not then
you are back to the old modem so this is not a trivial issue. It is a
major issue.

 From a technical point of view I am perfectly of making the damn modem
work myself. That is not the issue.

The real though comes down to attitude and I want Linux to succeed not
fail which it surely will if it continues to remain a complete geek
thing which no one else can use because installation exceeds their
ability which really pisses me off when it is an issue that was solved
and fully operational 10 years ago.



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