RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

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RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

Richard Brown
Hi all,

In advance of Thursdays openSUSE Conference Workshop on the topic[1],
I'd like to share with you all what I've been working on for
replacing/improving software.opensuse.org

My main goals have been to reduce the technical complexity of the
current page (which often struggles under the heavy load of release
days) while also doing a much better job of reflecting the offerings
provided by the opensuse project and providing clearer help to users.

You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/

The page is built using Jekyll, you can find the source at
https://github.com/sysrich/new-software.o.o

This email is a 'RFC' in two senses - not only am I keen to see
Comments on the progress so far, but I would greatly appreciate
Commits to improve what I have so far before this goes into
production.

The main thing that is desperately needed before I feel this new site
is viable as a replacement for software.opensuse.org is a translation
solution. I have been evaluating Polyglot [2] which seems to be a
viable solution, but due to limited time and an inability to translate
any other language, I would really like help getting it implemented.

You may notice the absence of the software search (besides the link in
the top right hand corner).

This is intentional. Attendees to the openSUSE conference can see my
talk on Saturday at 11:00 [3] to understand why I think we should be
de-emphasising the software search, and in addition to my personal
opinion I am hopeful that Thursdays workshop will open doors to other
solutions to the problems with the current package search.

Looking forward to what everyone things, happy hacking

- Richard

[1] https://events.opensuse.org/conference/oSC16/program/proposal/788
[2] https://untra.github.io/polyglot/
[3] https://events.opensuse.org/conference/oSC16/program/proposal/958

--
Richard Brown
openSUSE Chairman

Phone +4991174053-361
SUSE Linux GmbH,  Maxfeldstr. 5,  D-90409 Nuernberg
GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton,
HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)
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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

Klaas Freitag
On 21.06.2016 09:23, Richard Brown wrote:
Hi,

>
> In advance of Thursdays openSUSE Conference Workshop on the topic[1],
> I'd like to share with you all what I've been working on for
> replacing/improving software.opensuse.org
>
> My main goals have been to reduce the technical complexity of the
> current page (which often struggles under the heavy load of release
> days) while also doing a much better job of reflecting the offerings
> provided by the opensuse project and providing clearer help to users.

The first thing that jumps on me: What actually *is* 'openSUSE'? There
is no mentioning like "download worlds best Linux distro here". I
realize that the old page does not have it too, but maybe one sentence
would be cool.

> You may notice the absence of the software search (besides the link in
> the top right hand corner).
>
> This is intentional. Attendees to the openSUSE conference can see my
> talk on Saturday at 11:00 [3] to understand why I think we should be
> de-emphasising the software search,

That is interesting. I personally think that the package searching and
installation is one of openSUSE's strength, so it will be interesting to
hear your thoughts about that, as I wouldn't have expected that that
needs to be de-emphasised.

  regards,

Klaas

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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

H.Merijn Brand
In reply to this post by Richard Brown
On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:23:23 +0200, Richard Brown
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/

--8<---
Choosing Which Media to Download
The DVD/USB Stick is typically recommended as it contains most of the
packages available in the distribution and does not require a network
connection during the installation.

The Network CD/USB Stick is recommended for users who have limited
bandwidth on their internet connections, as it will only download the
packages they choose to install, which is likely to be significantly
less than 4.7GB.
-->8---

That sounds opposite of what I would use it for.

I usually take the Net iso if I have plenty of bandwidth and the DVD is
I don't, as the DVD already has most instantly available and thus
doesn't need to fetch it.

Can you elaborate?

--
H.Merijn Brand  http://tux.nl   Perl Monger  http://amsterdam.pm.org/
using perl5.00307 .. 5.23   porting perl5 on HP-UX, AIX, and openSUSE
http://mirrors.develooper.com/hpux/        http://www.test-smoke.org/
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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

Richard Brown
On 21 June 2016 at 09:41, H.Merijn Brand <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:23:23 +0200, Richard Brown
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/
>
> --8<---
> Choosing Which Media to Download
> The DVD/USB Stick is typically recommended as it contains most of the
> packages available in the distribution and does not require a network
> connection during the installation.
>
> The Network CD/USB Stick is recommended for users who have limited
> bandwidth on their internet connections, as it will only download the
> packages they choose to install, which is likely to be significantly
> less than 4.7GB.
> -->8---
>
> That sounds opposite of what I would use it for.
>
> I usually take the Net iso if I have plenty of bandwidth and the DVD is
> I don't, as the DVD already has most instantly available and thus
> doesn't need to fetch it.
>
> Can you elaborate?

The DVD download takes 4.7GB and gives you far more packages on the
DVD than you are likely to install

The NET ISO is 100MB and will only install the packages you select
when you install. This is typically somewhere between 1-2GB

So for a single installation, downloading the NET ISO and using it for
installation is going to save you a few GB's of downloading.
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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

Per Jessen
In reply to this post by Richard Brown
Richard Brown wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> In advance of Thursdays openSUSE Conference Workshop on the topic[1],
> I'd like to share with you all what I've been working on for
> replacing/improving software.opensuse.org
>
> My main goals have been to reduce the technical complexity of the
> current page (which often struggles under the heavy load of release
> days) while also doing a much better job of reflecting the offerings
> provided by the opensuse project and providing clearer help to users.
>
> You can see the current progress at
> https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/

First thought - it's significantly faster than www.opensuse.org, but
otherwise quite similar, so similar it's difficult to see any real
difference?

Maybe you/we need to define the difference between www.opensuse.org and
softare.opensuse.org?  With your proposal, they both look like shop
windows.  

> The main thing that is desperately needed before I feel this new site
> is viable as a replacement for software.opensuse.org is a translation
> solution. I have been evaluating Polyglot [2] which seems to be a
> viable solution, but due to limited time and an inability to translate
> any other language, I would really like help getting it implemented.

What is the current site using?  Does it need replacing/reinventing?

One comment mostly wrt the current site - in FF on a standard 24"
desktop monitor, I have to scroll down to notice the language option. I
think that ought to be right up at the top.  Maybe with the three most
common plus "Others" listed.



--
Per Jessen, Zürich (17.6°C)
http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland.

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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

Vojtěch Zeisek-2
In reply to this post by Richard Brown
Hello

Dne úterý 21. června 2016 9:23:23 CEST, Richard Brown napsal(a):
> In advance of Thursdays openSUSE Conference Workshop on the topic[1],
> I'd like to share with you all what I've been working on for
> replacing/improving software.opensuse.org

Myself, I'm fairly happy with the current version. The only thing I dislike
little bit is a list of searched software.

> My main goals have been to reduce the technical complexity of the
> current page (which often struggles under the heavy load of release
> days) while also doing a much better job of reflecting the offerings
> provided by the opensuse project and providing clearer help to users.

Why do users typically go to web to search of packages? Because they do not
find the package in the main repository via YaST/zypper and I'd consider as
very wrong to hide package search. Rather make better handling of YMP files and
“1-click install”.

> This email is a 'RFC' in two senses - not only am I keen to see
> Comments on the progress so far, but I would greatly appreciate
> Commits to improve what I have so far before this goes into
> production.

I'm sorry I'm unable to help with coding. Few my comments:
1) There is missing introduction of what openSUSE is and why to download.
2) I see section "Chosing which Distribution to Download” on the front page as
unneeded repetition - there is short introduction in the table above (OK,
could be bit longer, but never mind) and more detailed description should be
on next pages.
3) From the page I don't see difference between Testing and TW. This is little
bit confusing.
4) I know it is not translated yet, but I see as very important to have some
language switcher on very well visible place (e.g. top-right corner).
5) Otherwise I like the concept, I'd just appreciate also links to
documentation.

> The main thing that is desperately needed before I feel this new site
> is viable as a replacement for software.opensuse.org is a translation
> solution. I have been evaluating Polyglot [2] which seems to be a
> viable solution, but due to limited time and an inability to translate
> any other language, I would really like help getting it implemented.

Why not to use Weblate https://l10n.opensuse.org/ ? I'll repeat the above
statement, unlike www.opensuse.org, we should really place here language
switcher on immediately visible place.

> You may notice the absence of the software search (besides the link in
> the top right hand corner).
>
> This is intentional. Attendees to the openSUSE conference can see my
> talk on Saturday at 11:00 [3] to understand why I think we should be
> de-emphasising the software search, and in addition to my personal
> opinion I am hopeful that Thursdays workshop will open doors to other
> solutions to the problems with the current package search.

I must politely disagree. I understand and respect willing of stability of the
“main” distribution by not using any 3rd party pacakges (not even from OBS),
but as You are talking about user-centrism, the users wish a lot of packages.
The packages are commonly available in OBS. I must say I haven't had any
problem with packages from OBS and I consider the current warning to be
enough. OK, packages from main repositry can be green, from OBS project
repositories orange, from home directories red. For instance. I'd just
appreciate rather table display of results with some more details (could be
optional) and possibilities to filter them. IMHO, hiding of this possibility
does not help to the users. I'd rather see more effort for flawless
installation of OBS packages. For example, how can You get Bumblebee to work
without OBS? I use a lot of packages from Science repo. I consider it as
better option tha downloading and compiling wverything from home pages.
Sincerely,
V.

--
Vojtěch Zeisek

Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu
Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux

https://www.opensuse.org/
https://trapa.cz/

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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

gregfreemyer
In reply to this post by H.Merijn Brand
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:41 AM, H.Merijn Brand <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:23:23 +0200, Richard Brown
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/
>
> --8<---
> Choosing Which Media to Download
> The DVD/USB Stick is typically recommended as it contains most of the
> packages available in the distribution and does not require a network
> connection during the installation.
>
> The Network CD/USB Stick is recommended for users who have limited
> bandwidth on their internet connections, as it will only download the
> packages they choose to install, which is likely to be significantly
> less than 4.7GB.
> -->8---
>
> That sounds opposite of what I would use it for.
>
> I usually take the Net iso if I have plenty of bandwidth and the DVD is
> I don't, as the DVD already has most instantly available and thus
> doesn't need to fetch it.
>
> Can you elaborate?

I use the Net iso only if:

- I don't have a pre-downloaded DVD handy
- I'm in a time crunch to initiate an install
- my internet pipe is slow.

I can download the Net iso and burn it quickly, then do the
interactive install steps and let the needed packages download over
the next few hours.

Greg
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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

H.Merijn Brand
In reply to this post by Richard Brown
On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:47:22 +0200, Richard Brown
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 21 June 2016 at 09:41, H.Merijn Brand <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:23:23 +0200, Richard Brown
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >  
> >> You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/ 
> >
> > --8<---
> > Choosing Which Media to Download
> > The DVD/USB Stick is typically recommended as it contains most of the
> > packages available in the distribution and does not require a network
> > connection during the installation.
> >
> > The Network CD/USB Stick is recommended for users who have limited
> > bandwidth on their internet connections, as it will only download the
> > packages they choose to install, which is likely to be significantly
> > less than 4.7GB.  
> > -->8---  
> >
> > That sounds opposite of what I would use it for.
> >
> > I usually take the Net iso if I have plenty of bandwidth and the DVD is
> > I don't, as the DVD already has most instantly available and thus
> > doesn't need to fetch it.
> >
> > Can you elaborate?  
>
> The DVD download takes 4.7GB and gives you far more packages on the
> DVD than you are likely to install
>
> The NET ISO is 100MB and will only install the packages you select
> when you install. This is typically somewhere between 1-2GB
>
> So for a single installation, downloading the NET ISO and using it for
> installation is going to save you a few GB's of downloading.
I oversaw "for a single installation" :)

I usually get both ISO's on a fast connection and use the CD/DVD to
install on (all) other machines.


--
H.Merijn Brand  http://tux.nl   Perl Monger  http://amsterdam.pm.org/
using perl5.00307 .. 5.23   porting perl5 on HP-UX, AIX, and openSUSE
http://mirrors.develooper.com/hpux/        http://www.test-smoke.org/
http://qa.perl.org   http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/

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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

Marguerite Su
In reply to this post by Richard Brown
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:47 PM, Richard Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 21 June 2016 at 09:41, H.Merijn Brand <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:23:23 +0200, Richard Brown
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/
>>
>> --8<---
>> Choosing Which Media to Download
>> The DVD/USB Stick is typically recommended as it contains most of the
>> packages available in the distribution and does not require a network
>> connection during the installation.
>>
>> The Network CD/USB Stick is recommended for users who have limited
>> bandwidth on their internet connections, as it will only download the
>> packages they choose to install, which is likely to be significantly
>> less than 4.7GB.
>> -->8---
>>
>> That sounds opposite of what I would use it for.
>>
>> I usually take the Net iso if I have plenty of bandwidth and the DVD is
>> I don't, as the DVD already has most instantly available and thus
>> doesn't need to fetch it.
>>
>> Can you elaborate?
>
> The DVD download takes 4.7GB and gives you far more packages on the
> DVD than you are likely to install
>
> The NET ISO is 100MB and will only install the packages you select
> when you install. This is typically somewhere between 1-2GB
>
> So for a single installation, downloading the NET ISO and using it for
> installation is going to save you a few GB's of downloading.

Well...I have to jump in for this.

You guys focus on download size...which is right in theory...

But remember, people who have little bandwidth usually have little
download speed too.

The DVD itself is huge, we both know.

But I can download it with bitorrent, from mirrors, or even from
famous local IT portal.

During that time, I can watch videos, listen music and etc. Then 5
days isn't that hard...

The NET is small, but after downloading and burning to a USB stick,
you have to wait
for the download of packages at, well, nearly a black screen.

It's a waste of time even it will be just an hour. No matter to say, days.

And in some area of the world, a direct download from NBG is ultra
slow, especially
for small files. it means, you have to wait hours to see YaST actually come out.

Trust me, as a newbie, he will just keep asking on forum, why NET iso
doesn't work
and give me black screen? And I'll just tell him, download DVD.

I'll not tell him to wait. Because for myself with a 4MB bandwidth, I
can't use NET iso
either. It took 6 hours and I still didn't see YaST.

So the key of the problem is never download size, but how user
friendly, how smooth,
and how convinent the installation process will be.

For people with ultra fast download speed, NET is better than DVD.

But for people with little speed, down them all and install might be a
good idea.

So I suggest we keep the focus on the "speed" that a user can get.

Marguerite
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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

Jan Engelhardt-4

On Tuesday 2016-06-21 10:23, Marguerite Su wrote:
>
>And in some area of the world, a direct download from NBG is ultra
>slow, especially for small files. it means, you have to wait hours
>to see YaST actually come out.

So in other words, the yast2 installer really only needs a cgi/cpio
service in the style of what osc --download-api-only makes use of :-)
Then there will be just one TCP connection and be much better.
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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

ellanios82
In reply to this post by gregfreemyer
On 06/21/2016 11:11 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:41 AM, H.Merijn Brand <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:23:23 +0200, Richard Brown
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> You can see the current progress at https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/
>> --8<---
>> Choosing Which Media to Download
>> The DVD/USB Stick is typically recommended as it contains most of the
>> packages available in the distribution and does not require a network
>> connection during the installation.
>>
>> The Network CD/USB Stick is recommended for users who have limited
>> bandwidth on their internet connections, as it will only download the
>> packages they choose to install, which is likely to be significantly
>> less than 4.7GB.
>> -->8---
>>
>> That sounds opposite of what I would use it for.
>>
>> I usually take the Net iso if I have plenty of bandwidth and the DVD is
>> I don't, as the DVD already has most instantly available and thus
>> doesn't need to fetch it.
>>
>> Can you elaborate?
> I use the Net iso only if:
>
> - I don't have a pre-downloaded DVD handy
> - I'm in a time crunch to initiate an install
> - my internet pipe is slow.
>
> I can download the Net iso and burn it quickly, then do the
> interactive install steps and let the needed packages download over
> the next few hours.
>
> Greg

  - might it be helpful to use with install-option

" autoyast=usb://path "

  after making " autoinst.xml "

  with " yast2 clone_system "    ?


  regards


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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

Michal Kubecek
In reply to this post by Richard Brown
On úterý 21. června 2016 9:23 Richard Brown wrote:
>
> You may notice the absence of the software search (besides the link in
> the top right hand corner).
>
> This is intentional. Attendees to the openSUSE conference can see my
> talk on Saturday at 11:00 [3] to understand why I think we should be
> de-emphasising the software search, and in addition to my personal
> opinion I am hopeful that Thursdays workshop will open doors to other
> solutions to the problems with the current package search.

Thinking about it, package search turns out to be the only feature of
software.opensuse.org I'm actually using. But as long as the link is
still there, I don't mind. After all, I can bookmark the search page
directly.

                                                       Michal Kubeček

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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

Vojtěch Zeisek-2
Dne úterý 21. června 2016 10:44:41 CEST, Michal Kubecek napsal(a):

> On úterý 21. června 2016 9:23 Richard Brown wrote:
> > You may notice the absence of the software search (besides the link in
> > the top right hand corner).
> >
> > This is intentional. Attendees to the openSUSE conference can see my
> > talk on Saturday at 11:00 [3] to understand why I think we should be
> > de-emphasising the software search, and in addition to my personal
> > opinion I am hopeful that Thursdays workshop will open doors to other
> > solutions to the problems with the current package search.
>
> Thinking about it, package search turns out to be the only feature of
> software.opensuse.org I'm actually using. But as long as the link is
> still there, I don't mind. After all, I can bookmark the search page
> directly.
Yes, but what would be more user-friendly? For me, directly presented search
and better display of results.

--
Vojtěch Zeisek

Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu
Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux

https://www.opensuse.org/
https://trapa.cz/

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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

Ancor Gonzalez Sosa
On 06/21/2016 10:49 AM, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:

> Dne úterý 21. června 2016 10:44:41 CEST, Michal Kubecek napsal(a):
>> On úterý 21. června 2016 9:23 Richard Brown wrote:
>>> You may notice the absence of the software search (besides the link in
>>> the top right hand corner).
>>>
>>> This is intentional. Attendees to the openSUSE conference can see my
>>> talk on Saturday at 11:00 [3] to understand why I think we should be
>>> de-emphasising the software search, and in addition to my personal
>>> opinion I am hopeful that Thursdays workshop will open doors to other
>>> solutions to the problems with the current package search.
>>
>> Thinking about it, package search turns out to be the only feature of
>> software.opensuse.org I'm actually using. But as long as the link is
>> still there, I don't mind. After all, I can bookmark the search page
>> directly.
>
> Yes, but what would be more user-friendly? For me, directly presented search
> and better display of results.

We welcome everybody interested in improving the page at
https://events.opensuse.org/conference/oSC16/program/proposal/788

Cheers
--
Ancor González Sosa
YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH
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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Marguerite Su
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



On Tuesday, 2016-06-21 at 16:23 +0800, Marguerite Su wrote:

> Well...I have to jump in for this.
>
> You guys focus on download size...which is right in theory...
>
> But remember, people who have little bandwidth usually have little
> download speed too.

You are absolutely right: to use the net install media you need a fast
Internet connection.

There are several criteria. For instance, if Internet is capped, you use
the net install media, and installation fails, forcing a repeat, there
is a problem.

On the other hand, downloading the full DVD, then having to download
several gigabytes of updates, is a problem with limited internet. But it
is not if it is just slow.

Someone could perhaps design a decission tree to tell people which
method is better in their cases. :-?

Either that, or a text explaining better pros and cons of each method.

- --
Cheers,
        Carlos E. R.
        (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Vojtěch Zeisek-2
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



On Tuesday, 2016-06-21 at 10:11 +0200, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
>
> Myself, I'm fairly happy with the current version.

Me too.

>> My main goals have been to reduce the technical complexity of the
>> current page (which often struggles under the heavy load of release
>> days) while also doing a much better job of reflecting the offerings
>> provided by the opensuse project and providing clearer help to users.
>
> Why do users typically go to web to search of packages? Because they do not
> find the package in the main repository via YaST/zypper and I'd consider as
> very wrong to hide package search. Rather make better handling of YMP files and
> “1-click install”.

Package search is the thing I use most on that page. It is needed.

- --
Cheers,
        Carlos E. R.
        (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

Oliver Kurz-2
In reply to this post by Ancor Gonzalez Sosa
On Tuesday 21 June 2016 12:38:59 Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:

> On 06/21/2016 10:49 AM, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
> > Dne úterý 21. června 2016 10:44:41 CEST, Michal Kubecek napsal(a):
> >> On úterý 21. června 2016 9:23 Richard Brown wrote:
> >>> You may notice the absence of the software search (besides the link in
> >>> the top right hand corner).
> >>>
> >>> This is intentional. Attendees to the openSUSE conference can see my
> >>> talk on Saturday at 11:00 [3] to understand why I think we should be
> >>> de-emphasising the software search, and in addition to my personal
> >>> opinion I am hopeful that Thursdays workshop will open doors to other
> >>> solutions to the problems with the current package search.
> >>
> >> Thinking about it, package search turns out to be the only feature of
> >> software.opensuse.org I'm actually using. But as long as the link is
> >> still there, I don't mind. After all, I can bookmark the search page
> >> directly.
> >
> > Yes, but what would be more user-friendly? For me, directly presented
> > search and better display of results.
>
> We welcome everybody interested in improving the page at
> https://events.opensuse.org/conference/oSC16/program/proposal/788

Maybe I can attend.

My opinion on the new page (+: positive, -: negative):
+ The package search is still available so I am ok with that :-)
+ It is a clean entry point to newcomers

- The font size is too huge
- www.opensuse.org already does the distinction regarding Leap/Tumbleweed, the
new proposal is either duplicating the content or if thought of as a
replacement a waste of time to work on. Better evolute on the already existing
content then reinvent (the wheel)
- sponsors and links to other parts of the "community" missing
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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

Felix Miata-3
Oliver Kurz composed on 2016-06-21 15:23 (UTC+0200):

> - The font size is too huge

Actually it's to small, or too large, or just right, according to
happenstance, because, like most of the of the web, including the current
site, its sizes are arbitrary, specified in a "size" (18px) that has no
predictable correlation to appropriate for the user's environment. Here, it's
too small:

        http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Suse/newsite201606-120.jpg

The style rule you see in that screenshot equates here to 90% (18 / 20) of
optimum. 100% is optimum, the size specified in browser settings as default,
and thus presumptively ideal. The size in that rule shouldn't be there at
all, thus leaving the base size at 100% of optimum.

URLs included in the screenshot:
https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/
http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/dpi-screen-window.html
http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/defaultsize.html
https://software.opensuse.org/newsite/css/main.css

The proposal is considerably better than the old:

        http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Suse/newsiteComp201606-168.jpg
--
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words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

Cornelius Schumacher-2
In reply to this post by Klaas Freitag
On Tuesday 21 June 2016 09:34:31 Klaas Freitag wrote:

> On 21.06.2016 09:23, Richard Brown wrote:
>
> > You may notice the absence of the software search (besides the link in
> > the top right hand corner).
> >
> > This is intentional. Attendees to the openSUSE conference can see my
> > talk on Saturday at 11:00 [3] to understand why I think we should be
> > de-emphasising the software search,
>
> That is interesting. I personally think that the package searching and
> installation is one of openSUSE's strength, so it will be interesting to
> hear your thoughts about that, as I wouldn't have expected that that
> needs to be de-emphasised.

This actually might be a good opportunity to make use of some metrics. With
the download page we have one of the rare entry points where we can actually
measure what users are doing and what effect changes have. So it might be
worthwhile to on one hand define what metrics are important for us and measure
how we are doing with them.

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Re: RFC - Proposed Revamp of software.opensuse.org

James Mason
In reply to this post by Felix Miata-3
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On Tue, 2016-06-21 at 13:42 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
> The proposal is considerably better than the old:
>
>         http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Suse/newsiteComp201606-168.jpg

Umm... I hope I'm wrong here, but AFAIK the proposal is a replacement
for 
  https://software.opensuse.org/421/en 
, not 
  https://www.opensuse.org/
as shown in your screenshot.


- --

James Mason <[hidden email]>
SUSE
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