Problems and suggestions about openSUSE localization package installation

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S.
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Problems and suggestions about openSUSE localization package installation

S.
Hi everyone,

I have some comments and suggestions about how to improve the end user
experience for installation of language localization packages. Before I
go farther, am I on the right list for this topic? :)

Thanks, have a great day.
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Re: Problems and suggestions about openSUSE localization package installation

Karl Ove Hufthammer
Den 27. nov. 2015 23:09, S. skreiv:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have some comments and suggestions about how to improve the end user
> experience for installation of language localization packages. Before
> I go farther, am I on the right list for this topic? :)

Technically, I guess this is can be considered a suitable mailing list
for discussing this, but I think you will have more luck in reaching the
people able to something about the problem on either the
opensuse-packaging or the opensuse-factory mailing list.

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S.
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Problems and suggestions about openSUSE localization package installation

S.
Thanks Karl for the reply. I'll post the issue here first.

I'm running into a major issue that makes it really hard for me to use
openSUSE. I need to install an additional interface language on my
system apart from English, and there is apparently a very good YAST
module for this. However, it doesn't actually install the relevant
`-lang` packages because it depends on the zypper package recommends,
which I have disabled. I tried re-enabling it and re-enabling the
language I want, but it only installs a few spellcheck dictionaries and
Firefox language packs, but not the profusion of `-lang` packages that I
need for each and every GUI app. Then I tried doing a `zypper
install-new-recommends`, but I aborted because it wanted to install a
whopping 715 new packages for a grand total on the disk of well over
**1GB**!!!

I don't really think that the package recommends system is the right
tool for installing `-lang` packages for a given language.

Or is there any workaround I can use or some hidden zypp(er) setting
that will make it only heed `-lang` recommends and none of the others?

Thanks for any insight.
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Re: Problems and suggestions about openSUSE localization package installation

Freek de Kruijf
Op maandag 30 november 2015 16:09:08 schreef S.:

> Thanks Karl for the reply. I'll post the issue here first.
>
> I'm running into a major issue that makes it really hard for me to use
> openSUSE. I need to install an additional interface language on my
> system apart from English, and there is apparently a very good YAST
> module for this. However, it doesn't actually install the relevant
> `-lang` packages because it depends on the zypper package recommends,
> which I have disabled. I tried re-enabling it and re-enabling the
> language I want, but it only installs a few spellcheck dictionaries and
> Firefox language packs, but not the profusion of `-lang` packages that I
> need for each and every GUI app. Then I tried doing a `zypper
> install-new-recommends`, but I aborted because it wanted to install a
> whopping 715 new packages for a grand total on the disk of well over
> **1GB**!!!
>
> I don't really think that the package recommends system is the right
> tool for installing `-lang` packages for a given language.
>
> Or is there any workaround I can use or some hidden zypp(er) setting
> that will make it only heed `-lang` recommends and none of the others?
>
> Thanks for any insight.

Did you try YaST -> Software -> Software Management -> View -> Languages and
select the appropriate language. You should get a list of packages containing
the localization for that language. You can enable or disable required or
unwanted packages.

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S.
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Problems and suggestions about openSUSE localization package installation

S.
In reply to this post by Karl Ove Hufthammer
> Did you try YaST -> Software -> Software Management -> View -> Languages
> and select the appropriate language. You should get a list of packages
> containing the localization for that language. You can enable or disable
> required or unwanted packages.

Yes, thanks for the suggestion. The Languages tab is helpful, but
unfortunately it doesn't list all of the *-lang packages that are
required for most X11 applications. With the exception of certain
Mozilla programs, LibreOffice, and some parts of certain desktop
environments, most other X11 applications have a separate -lang
translation package that contains all available translations. For
example, NetworkManager-gnome-lang, gedit-lang, evince-lang, etc.
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Re: Problems and suggestions about openSUSE localization package installation

Freek de Kruijf
Op maandag 30 november 2015 16:38:01 schreef S.:

> > Did you try YaST -> Software -> Software Management -> View -> Languages
> > and select the appropriate language. You should get a list of packages
> > containing the localization for that language. You can enable or disable
> > required or unwanted packages.
>
> Yes, thanks for the suggestion. The Languages tab is helpful, but
> unfortunately it doesn't list all of the *-lang packages that are
> required for most X11 applications. With the exception of certain
> Mozilla programs, LibreOffice, and some parts of certain desktop
> environments, most other X11 applications have a separate -lang
> translation package that contains all available translations. For
> example, NetworkManager-gnome-lang, gedit-lang, evince-lang, etc.

In that case you can enter -lang in the search field to find these packages. I
am Dutch so I need these -lang packages, which are auto magically installed. I
currently have about 80 of these packages. Don't know how much it takes.
Unfortunately they also have localization files for other languages than
Dutch. Only a small number of applications have these files separate. Nowadays
1 GB of wasted space on a disc is not very much.

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Re: Problems and suggestions about openSUSE localization package installation

S.
In reply to this post by S.
> In that case you can enter -lang in the search field to find these packages. I
am Dutch so I need these -lang packages, which are auto magically
installed. I
currently have about 80 of these packages. Don't know how much it takes.
Unfortunately they also have localization files for other languages than
Dutch. Only a small number of applications have these files separate.
Nowadays
1 GB of wasted space on a disc is not very much.

Well, the issue isn't the wasted space from the other languages I don't
need. The problem is installing 80 -lang packages, and finding which
ones correspond to the applications that are actually installed. You
can't just install everything *-lang, because that pulls in the main
program itself as a dependency.
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Re: Problems and suggestions about openSUSE localization package installation

S.W.B.
In reply to this post by S.
> In that case you can enter -lang in the search field to find these packages. I
am Dutch so I need these -lang packages, which are auto magically
installed. I
currently have about 80 of these packages. Don't know how much it takes.
Unfortunately they also have localization files for other languages than
Dutch. Only a small number of applications have these files separate.
Nowadays
1 GB of wasted space on a disc is not very much.

Well, the issue isn't the wasted space from the other languages I don't
need. The problem is installing 80 -lang packages, and finding which
ones correspond to the applications that are actually installed. You
can't just install everything *-lang, because that pulls in the main
program itself as a dependency.
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Re: Problems and suggestions about openSUSE localization package installation

Freek de Kruijf
In reply to this post by S.
Op maandag 30 november 2015 17:30:20 schreef S.:

> > In that case you can enter -lang in the search field to find these
> > packages. I
> am Dutch so I need these -lang packages, which are auto magically
> installed. I
> currently have about 80 of these packages. Don't know how much it takes.
> Unfortunately they also have localization files for other languages than
> Dutch. Only a small number of applications have these files separate.
> Nowadays
> 1 GB of wasted space on a disc is not very much.
>
> Well, the issue isn't the wasted space from the other languages I don't
> need. The problem is installing 80 -lang packages, and finding which
> ones correspond to the applications that are actually installed. You
> can't just install everything *-lang, because that pulls in the main
> program itself as a dependency.

Once you add a language apart from en_US, AFAIK, all needed, by applications
and libraries, -lang packages are installed auto magically. Most -lang on my
system belong to libraries.

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Re: Problems and suggestions about openSUSE localization package installation

S.
In reply to this post by S.
On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 10:57:38 +0100 Freek de Kruijf  wrote:

> Once you add a language apart from en_US, AFAIK, all needed,
> by applications and libraries, -lang packages are installed
> auto magically. Most -lang on my system belong to libraries.

I guess this goes back to the root of this problem. The -lang packages
for new installed programs are not automatically installed on my system
because I disable installation of recommends. And even if I do enable
installation of recommends, it still won't install the -lang packages
for the pre-installed packages from the default installation. And if I
use the option to install recommends for already installed packages, I
get a *huge* amount of unwanted extraneous non-language packages as part
of the recommends of other installed packages.
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Re: Problems and suggestions about openSUSE localization package installation

Vojtěch Zeisek-2
Dne Út 1. prosince 2015 13:44:06, S. napsal(a):
> On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 10:57:38 +0100 Freek de Kruijf  wrote:
> > Once you add a language apart from en_US, AFAIK, all needed,
> > by applications and libraries, -lang packages are installed
> > auto magically. Most -lang on my system belong to libraries.
>
> I guess this goes back to the root of this problem. The -lang packages
> for new installed programs are not automatically installed on my system
> because I disable installation of recommends. And even if I do enable

Yes, but at least when You install new package, zypper notes some packages are
recommended but not selected for installation. You can them install them
manually. And when You go to YaST and list recommended packages, You can
manually select which of the recommended You like.
HTH,
V.

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Re: Problems and suggestions about openSUSE localization package installation

opensuse.lietuviu.kalba
To track thees problems, two bugs opened:
- YaST Software manager: language tab list only few language packages
    https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=957526
- Installing only language related recommended packages
    https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=957528

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Re: Problems and suggestions about openSUSE localization package installation

S.
In reply to this post by S.
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 12:49:04 +020 opensuse.lietuviu.kalba wrote:

> To track thees problems, two bugs opened:
> - YaST Software manager: language tab list only few language packages
> https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=957526
> - Installing only language related recommended packages
> https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=957528

Fantastic! Thanks very much for getting the ball rolling on this
important issue.
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