Poll about Url vs URL in RPM preamble

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Re: Poll about Url vs URL in RPM preamble

Jan Ritzerfeld-3
Am Freitag, 11. August 2017, 15:31:29 CEST schrieb Jason Craig:
> [...]
> I see that the linked style guide (this is a question of style as tag
> names are case insensitive) is from Google for Java.

Or Microsoft:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/design-guidelines/
capitalization-conventions
Or Rust:
https://doc.rust-lang.org/1.0.0/style/style/naming/README.html

> Since SUSE is not
> Google and RPM spec files are not Java, I don't see any reason why this
> style guide is applicable.

So, where is the style guide that says otherwise and justifies this change
request? I agree with Marcus and do not see a point in changing one specific
name without having a general naming convention!

> Even if the linked guide is used just to say
> "what camel case is", there are other people who think acronyms and/or
> initialisms can/should be all caps in camel case. In fact this Fedora
> document
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_an_RPM_package#SPEC_file_overvi
> ew has the URL tag name as all uppercase.

I don't think that using all upper acronyms and initialisms is a good idea
since it generates unreadable names like XMLHTTPOSIDRequest.

> Is there an OpenSUSE document (a style guide) that says spec file tag
> names should be in upper camel case, and further clarifies that upper
> camel case means that initialisms and acronyms should be rendered like
> "Url"? If so, then so be it, otherwise I think the discussion here is
> what should such a document say.

A naming convention should be applied as broadly as possible and not only to
RPM tag names. Using different definitions just because it's another
"language" doesn't make life easier. How many naming conventions should I read
when I create or maintain a package?

Gruß
 Jan
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Re: Poll about Url vs URL in RPM preamble

Tomas Chvatal
In reply to this post by Tomas Chvatal
Results are in:

https://doodle.com/poll/9y6gfunm8bm8cz3b

As winner is URL I created commit for spec-cleaner changing the value
[1]. The release containing this will happen aprox in one month again
as I try to release it when few commits are in the master or some
regression is found.

I also opened a ticket for format_spec_file [2] but that should be
fixed by its maintainers or anyone liking perl. :)

Cheers

Tom

[1] https://github.com/openSUSE/spec-cleaner/commit/a82a7330980afa8488d
40c0827d7820762942ce7
[2] https://github.com/openSUSE/obs-service-format_spec_file/issues/24

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Re: Poll about Url vs URL in RPM preamble

Adam Spiers
In reply to this post by Jason Craig-3
Jason Craig <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Is there an OpenSUSE document (a style guide) that says spec file tag names
              ^^^^^^^^

> should be in upper camel case, and further clarifies that upper camel case
> means that initialisms and acronyms should be rendered like "Url"?

It's "openSUSE" - sorry, but since this whole bike shed discussion is
about capitalisation, I could not resist pointing that out ;-)
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Re: Poll about Url vs URL in RPM preamble

Jason Craig-3
In reply to this post by Jan Ritzerfeld-3
On 08/12/2017 04:19 AM, Jan Ritzerfeld wrote:

> Am Freitag, 11. August 2017, 15:31:29 CEST schrieb Jason Craig:
>> [...]
>> I see that the linked style guide (this is a question of style as tag
>> names are case insensitive) is from Google for Java.
>
> Or Microsoft:
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/design-guidelines/
> capitalization-conventions
> Or Rust:
> https://doc.rust-lang.org/1.0.0/style/style/naming/README.html

So MS, who brought us XMLHttpRequest? Whose genesis was an interface
named IXMLHTTPRequest? To many people, including me, Microsoft is not an
authority to follow when it comes to software development.

>> Since SUSE is not
>> Google and RPM spec files are not Java, I don't see any reason why this
>> style guide is applicable.
>
> So, where is the style guide that says otherwise and justifies this change
> request? I agree with Marcus and do not see a point in changing one specific
> name without having a general naming convention!

This is precisely what I'm advocating, perhaps I'm being too implicit?

>> Even if the linked guide is used just to say
>> "what camel case is", there are other people who think acronyms and/or
>> initialisms can/should be all caps in camel case. In fact this Fedora
>> document
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_an_RPM_package#SPEC_file_overvi
>> ew has the URL tag name as all uppercase.
>
> I don't think that using all upper acronyms and initialisms is a good idea
> since it generates unreadable names like XMLHTTPOSIDRequest.

And we can find ways in which lower-casing the letters makes acronyms or
initialisms unreadable. In fact, you could argue any initialism becomes
unreadable because you say each letter and lower-casing tends to make
one read it as a word. I would rather a guide suggest not to create
indentifiers with multiple adjacent acronyms or initialisms regardless
of capitalization than use such examples to argue why you should
capitalize one way or another.

>> Is there an OpenSUSE document (a style guide) that says spec file tag
>> names should be in upper camel case, and further clarifies that upper
>> camel case means that initialisms and acronyms should be rendered like
>> "Url"? If so, then so be it, otherwise I think the discussion here is
>> what should such a document say.
>
> A naming convention should be applied as broadly as possible and not only to
> RPM tag names. Using different definitions just because it's another
> "language" doesn't make life easier. How many naming conventions should I read
> when I create or maintain a package?

All well and good, but in that case aren't RPM tags most like parameters
or variables? I believe all the linked examples have had these types of
identifiers in lower camel case.

> Gruß
>   Jan

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Re: Poll about Url vs URL in RPM preamble

Jason Craig-3
In reply to this post by Adam Spiers
On 08/14/2017 09:16 AM, Adam Spiers wrote:
> Jason Craig <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Is there an OpenSUSE document (a style guide) that says spec file tag names
>                ^^^^^^^^
>
>> should be in upper camel case, and further clarifies that upper camel case
>> means that initialisms and acronyms should be rendered like "Url"?
>
> It's "openSUSE" - sorry, but since this whole bike shed discussion is
> about capitalisation, I could not resist pointing that out ;-)

+1 for pedantry! :)

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Re: Poll about Url vs URL in RPM preamble

Jan Ritzerfeld-3
In reply to this post by Jason Craig-3
Am Montag, 14. August 2017, 09:49:45 CEST schrieb Jason Craig:
> On 08/12/2017 04:19 AM, Jan Ritzerfeld wrote:
> [...]
> > Or Microsoft:
> > https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/design-guidelines/
> > capitalization-conventions
> > Or Rust:
> > https://doc.rust-lang.org/1.0.0/style/style/naming/README.html
>
> So MS, who brought us XMLHttpRequest?

Pardon? I don't think that any of the links I posted states that
XMLHttpRequest is correct, even the microsoft one. [...]

> [...]
> All well and good, but in that case aren't RPM tags most like parameters
> or variables? I believe all the linked examples have had these types of
> identifiers in lower camel case.

Exactly. However, does URL looks like lower camel case for you?

Gruß
 Jan
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Re: Poll about Url vs URL in RPM preamble

Jan Ritzerfeld-3
In reply to this post by Adam Spiers
Am Montag, 14. August 2017, 16:16:38 CEST schrieb Adam Spiers:
> [...]
> It's "openSUSE" - sorry, but since this whole bike shed discussion is
> about capitalisation, I could not resist pointing that out ;-)

Says the guy with the ugly colored bike shed!

Gruß
 Jan
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Re: Poll about Url vs URL in RPM preamble

gregfreemyer
In reply to this post by Jan Ritzerfeld-3
The voting is done.  The decision is made.  No one left to influence.

Can we drop the discussion?


On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Jan Ritzerfeld
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Am Montag, 14. August 2017, 09:49:45 CEST schrieb Jason Craig:
>> On 08/12/2017 04:19 AM, Jan Ritzerfeld wrote:
>> [...]
>> > Or Microsoft:
>> > https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/design-guidelines/
>> > capitalization-conventions
>> > Or Rust:
>> > https://doc.rust-lang.org/1.0.0/style/style/naming/README.html
>>
>> So MS, who brought us XMLHttpRequest?
>
> Pardon? I don't think that any of the links I posted states that
> XMLHttpRequest is correct, even the microsoft one. [...]
>
>> [...]
>> All well and good, but in that case aren't RPM tags most like parameters
>> or variables? I believe all the linked examples have had these types of
>> identifiers in lower camel case.
>
> Exactly. However, does URL looks like lower camel case for you?
>
> Gruß
>  Jan
> --
> Nothing will be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome.
>
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Re: Poll about Url vs URL in RPM preamble

Adam Spiers
In reply to this post by Jan Ritzerfeld-3
Jan Ritzerfeld <[hidden email]> wrote:
>Am Montag, 14. August 2017, 16:16:38 CEST schrieb Adam Spiers:
>> [...]
>> It's "openSUSE" - sorry, but since this whole bike shed discussion is
>> about capitalisation, I could not resist pointing that out ;-)
>
>Says the guy with the ugly colored bike shed!

"coloured" ;-p
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Re: Poll about Url vs URL in RPM preamble

Jan Engelhardt-4
In reply to this post by Adam Spiers
On Monday 2017-08-14 17:16, Adam Spiers wrote:

>Jason Craig <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Is there an OpenSUSE document (a style guide) that says spec file tag names
>> should be in upper camel case, and further clarifies that upper camel case
>> means that initialisms and acronyms should be rendered like "Url"?
>
>It's "openSUSE" - sorry, but since this whole bike shed discussion is
>about capitalisation, I could not resist pointing that out ;-)

Damn capitalism ;-)
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