Newcomer - problem with saving to a FD

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Newcomer - problem with saving to a FD

Thomas Blasejewicz
Ladies and Gentlemen
Recently I decided to "Linux a try", without having any knowledge about it.
I am using currently Windows and have been using Mac in the past.

I tried to install Ubuntu, Xubuntu and Lingua OS - but did not really
succeed.
Somebody on the Linguas OS mailing list suggested I should try OpenSUSE
first.

I tried to install that. Maybe I succeeded, but am not sure about that,
because the entire installation process did not go according to the
25-page installation guide.

After writing something in Writer, I wanted to save that file on a FD.
One of the two manuals that come with OpenSUSE (together 1022 pages)
mentions that Linux does not use drive letters, but I could not find any
instructions as to how to save a file on a FD. That should not be so
difficult.
Somewhere else I found:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"okay:
put in a floppy
open up a terminal:
Code:
su
mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy
if it says "no mountpoint" or something:
Code:
mkdir /mnt/floppy
mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy
then save it to /mnt/floppy
then go back to terminal:
Code:
umount /dev/fd0
and pop your floppy out"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I did try to follow those instructions, but did not succeed.
I always get an error telling me that there is not such directory.

Is that the only way to save a file on a FD? That seems to be very hard
to believe.
Just the required number of input characters is 91 plus the action of
opening and closing the terminal etc.
Since saving a file on a FD is maybe 3 clicks on either a Windows
machine or a Mac, the above procedure would
be 30 times more labor intensiv!

That cannot be correct, can it?
I really hope there is something more down to earth and would appreciate
any hint.

(I do have other questions too, but will put them into different strings)

Thomas Blasejewicz
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Re: Newcomer - problem with saving to a FD

PerfectReign
On Sunday 09 March 2008 07:43:15 pm Thomas Blasejewicz wrote:

> Ladies and Gentlemen
> Recently I decided to "Linux a try", without having any knowledge about it.
> I am using currently Windows and have been using Mac in the past.
>
> I tried to install Ubuntu, Xubuntu and Lingua OS - but did not really
> succeed.
> Somebody on the Linguas OS mailing list suggested I should try OpenSUSE
> first.
>
> I tried to install that. Maybe I succeeded, but am not sure about that,
> because the entire installation process did not go according to the
> 25-page installation guide.
>
> After writing something in Writer, I wanted to save that file on a FD.
> One of the two manuals that come with OpenSUSE (together 1022 pages)
> mentions that Linux does not use drive letters, but I could not find any

I haven't used a floppy in a few years, but the last time I did, I simply put
it in the drive and the disk opened up in Konqueror.

What is your hardware - Pentium IV, Athlon?



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Re: Newcomer - problem with saving to a FD

Bugzilla from jbullock@rare-bird-ent.com
In reply to this post by Thomas Blasejewicz
Thomas Blasejewicz wrote:
> Ladies and Gentlemen
> Recently I decided to "Linux a try", without having any knowledge about it.
> I am using currently Windows and have been using Mac in the past.

<snip>

> After writing something in Writer, I wanted to save that file on a FD.

<snip>

> Is that the only way to save a file on a FD? That seems to be very hard
> to believe.

<snip>

> I really hope there is something more down to earth and would appreciate
> any hint.

Hi Thomas.

I'm a lot more of a n00b with Linux than most of the people here, but maybe I
can help. First, thank you for asking one question at a time.

To give you some guidance, just like Windows and to a lesser extent Mac, we need
to know what version of what you are running. It's a good idea in general to
include this info with questions:

- Which version of OpenSuSE?

- Which desktop, Gnome or KDE? Think of this about like a Mac vs. Windows
desktop. Works pretty much the same in general, with a lot of details that are
different.

- You might give us an idea of the hardware you are running on.

There is some more info on how to use this list effectively here:
http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_mailing_list_netiquette

As for your immediate floppy disk question, I happen to run OpenSuSE 10.3 with
the standard KDE desktop. For me, the easiest way to access a floppy is:

- Put in the disk. Now on the screen lower left corner, in the panel (the
control bar looking thing across the bottom - in gray in the standard colors),
click on the green lizard. Get in the "computer" tab, and you should see
"floppy" as one of the choices. Click on that and it'll mount the disk, and give
you a window.

Once you are in the window, mucking with files via the GUI works about the same
as the other OSes, so you can drag and drop the file right in. You really have
two options to get the file onto the floppy:

- In the write application, "save as" you can browse to the floppy and save it
there. The floppy is under /media.

- Otherwise, you can open the directory where Write put the file, and drag the
file right into the floppy window as I've said.

While Linux "doesn't use drive letters" exactly, think of *all* the disks & etc.
as part of one big drive. They get attached in, and look like they are part of
the same tree of directories - most of the time you have no idea that it's a
different device. There are religious arguments around either approach. I'll
skip those.

Some background - when you connect a new piece of removable media, it gets
attached - "mounted" - to the one big file system that holds everything. That's
the command line mumbo-jumbo you found in those other instructions. When you go
in through the Lizard as I've said, that gets taken care of for you. Two other
things you might do:

- Find the desktop icon labeled "My Computer." It's a video display with a
penguin in front. Click on that and you'll get some info about your computer.
Once they are mounted, you can browse down into any of the different drives as
their own thing from there. So, you don't have drive letters, but you can get at
each physical drive separately if you must.

- It might be interesting for you to plug in a flash drive to a USB port, and
watch how that works.

I hope this helps. Of course, my suggestions are somewhere from somewhat wrong
if you are running an older version.

--
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LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rarebirdenterprises

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Re: Newcomer - problem with saving to a FD

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Thomas Blasejewicz
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The Monday 2008-03-10 at 11:43 +0900, Thomas Blasejewicz wrote:

> Somebody on the Linguas OS mailing list suggested I should try OpenSUSE
> first.
>
> I tried to install that. Maybe I succeeded, but am not sure about that,
> because the entire installation process did not go according to the
> 25-page installation guide.

Which version?

> After writing something in Writer, I wanted to save that file on a FD.
> One of the two manuals that come with OpenSUSE (together 1022 pages)

What? You must be using an old version, the current paper manual is prety
small nowdays, about 300 pages. And no paper if you download it, of
course.

> mentions that Linux does not use drive letters, but I could not find any
> instructions as to how to save a file on a FD. That should not be so
> difficult.

It uses directory names, even for drives.

> Somewhere else I found:
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> "okay:
> put in a floppy
> open up a terminal:
> Code:
> su
> mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy
[...]

Uau.

Those are OLD instructions. That's the manual method.

    (I do prefer and use the manual method, but that's me. No need for you
    to use "that").

> Since saving a file on a FD is maybe 3 clicks on either a Windows
> machine or a Mac, the above procedure would
> be 30 times more labor intensiv!

It is indeed point and click in linux, too. What version are you running?
The current one is 10.3. Use that.

- --
Cheers,
        Carlos E. R.

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Re: Newcomer - problem with saving to a FD

Ed McCanless
In reply to this post by Bugzilla from jbullock@rare-bird-ent.com
James Bullock wrote:

<Snipped>

> Hi Thomas.
>
> I'm a lot more of a n00b with Linux than most of the people here, but maybe I
> can help. First, thank you for asking one question at a time.
>
> To give you some guidance, just like Windows and to a lesser extent Mac, we need
> to know what version of what you are running. It's a good idea in general to
> include this info with questions:
>
> - Which version of OpenSuSE?
>
> - Which desktop, Gnome or KDE? Think of this about like a Mac vs. Windows
> desktop. Works pretty much the same in general, with a lot of details that are
> different.
>
> - You might give us an idea of the hardware you are running on.
>
> There is some more info on how to use this list effectively here:
> http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_mailing_list_netiquette
>
> As for your immediate floppy disk question, I happen to run OpenSuSE 10.3 with
> the standard KDE desktop. For me, the easiest way to access a floppy is:
>
> - Put in the disk. Now on the screen lower left corner, in the panel (the
> control bar looking thing across the bottom - in gray in the standard colors),
> click on the green lizard. Get in the "computer" tab, and you should see
> "floppy" as one of the choices. Click on that and it'll mount the disk, and give
> you a window.
>  
All good advice. Details always help us to understand the question.
This method works fine for me too, in Suse 10.1, but in Suse 10.3, the
FD icon does not show. The OS does not recognize the drive automatically.

Thomas did not make this clear, but if his trouble is the same as mine,
we could use a bit more help. How to access the FD, if it is not
recognized automatically.

-ED-
>  

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Re: Newcomer - problem with saving to a FD

Carlos E. R.-2
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The Tuesday 2008-03-11 at 15:31 -0400, Ed McCanless wrote:

> All good advice. Details always help us to understand the question.
> This method works fine for me too, in Suse 10.1, but in Suse 10.3, the
> FD icon does not show. The OS does not recognize the drive automatically.

I don't think the OP is using 10.3, because he mentions two manuals
totaling 1022 pages, and 10.3 has a Start Up paper manual of 250 pages
only. I wonder what he is using.

And he hasn't reported back yet.

> Thomas did not make this clear, but if his trouble is the same as mine,
> we could use a bit more help. How to access the FD, if it is not
> recognized automatically.

You can check if there is an entry in the system browser. Are you using
gnome or kde? In gnome, go to the main menu, Places, Computer. There should
be a floppy entry, click on it. KDE will be similar.

However, I don't use this method: I use the traditional manual mount.

- --
Cheers,
        Carlos E. R.

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Re: Newcomer - problem with saving to a FD

Ed McCanless
Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>
>
> I don't think the OP is using 10.3, because he mentions two manuals
> totaling 1022 pages, and 10.3 has a Start Up paper manual of 250 pages
> only. I wonder what he is using.
>
> And he hasn't reported back yet.
Good point. I did notice there were no details. Maybe he has found the
solution, but I haven't.
>
> > Thomas did not make this clear, but if his trouble is the same as mine,
> > we could use a bit more help. How to access the FD, if it is not
> > recognized automatically.
>
> You can check if there is an entry in the system browser. Are you
> using gnome or kde? In gnome, go to the main menu, Places, Computer.
> There should be a floppy entry, click on it. KDE will be similar.
There is no entry there. (I use KDE) No reference to FD at all.
>
> However, I don't use this method: I use the traditional manual mount.
I would love to use this method, but have not learned it yet. Could you
give a little help? Is it "mount fd" or does it call the drive by some
name I can't find?
>
> -- Cheers,
>        Carlos E. R.
>
Thanks,    -ED-
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Re: Newcomer - problem with saving to a FD

Carlos E. R.-2
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The Saturday 2008-03-15 at 13:49 -0400, Ed McCanless wrote:

>> However, I don't use this method: I use the traditional manual mount.
> I would love to use this method, but have not learned it yet. Could you
> give a little help? Is it "mount fd" or does it call the drive by some
> name I can't find?

Easy enough :-)

You edit /etc/fstab (as root) and add this line:

/dev/fd0   /mnt/floppy   auto   noauto,user     0 0

You need also to create the directory "/mnt/floppy". After that, the
command "mount /mnt/floppy" should mount the floppy.

Notice that I use "/mnt/floppy" instead of the customary "/media/floppy",
because this way I differentiate manual from automatic mount.

It is also possible that after this change the device appears in
konqueror, too. In gnome I get icons for many of the fstab lines, even if
I don't want them (the icons in the desktop).

It is also possible that this does not work at all, if the device node
"/dev/fd0" does not exist at all. In 10.3 these nodes are created on the
fly when the kernel detects the drive. If it is not there, then that's the
main problem to solve - and I have no idea how. It would be a bug, I
suppose.

- --
Cheers,
        Carlos E. R.
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Re: Newcomer - problem with saving to a FD

Thomas Blasejewicz
In reply to this post by Thomas Blasejewicz
Good morning from Japan.
I am really greatful, that there are still people looking at my problem
/ message.
The problem still remains unsolved.

Well, I have not reported back, because I do have work to do (using my
computer) to feed my family.
Actually, I DID write one rather long message, but that somehow did not
come through.

To make it short:
* Manuals: downloaded from the OpenSUSE website: "Opensuse103.zip"
contains allegedly all documentation, 33.5 MB
here -> KDE user + reference guides.
* I am trying to use version 10.3. KDE Desktop
* After trying to follow the instructions with those commands, I
apparently created a lot of "directories" I did not ask for.
* Those directories naturally do not work.
* Found the lizard icon + floppy icon. Yet could not succeed in
"drag+drop" a file there, because when I grab the file, the icon
disappears.
(I am used to this kind of operation and have never had any troubles
doing that.)
* Actually I ONCE succeeded saving a file on the floppy. At that time it
was something like "/system:/media/fd0/.
* An attempt to duplicate that feature failed.
* The file created did NOT show up in the file list. It did, however,
when I read the FD with the windows machine.
* Currently, when I try "save as" in writer, I get a drop down menu, but
no operational item for floppy.
* Manual input of the above mentioned directory does not get me back to
the FD.

* Reason for the floppy: wanted to check (quick and easy), whether files
created on a Linux machine can be read on my Windows machine.
-> ALL the work I have to do, comes in as Windows files and the
companies expect Windows files in return.
* It seems, I am unable to achieve a feat as simple as saving a file on
a floppy. Something even pre-school children do on a regular basis today.
And I have been saving files on floppys for over 20 years.
Since the clicking operation does not seem to work, I need to use the
"manual" method (which I could not master either), since both syntax and
meaning of all those commands needed for the manual operation elude me
(because I am too ignorant as somebody has pointed out).

* So, although I may continue to play with Linux to see, if I can find
out a little more, the "fantastic features of Linux" seem to be beyond
my capabilities and thus essentially gave up the hope of becoming able
to use Linux.

But I want to thank you anyway.
Maybe later, I will come up with questions like how to enable input in
Japanese and switch between input methods / keyboards using a simple key
combination etc. for me essential features ...

Thomas Blasejewicz




Ed McCanless さんは書きました:

> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>> I don't think the OP is using 10.3, because he mentions two manuals
>> totaling 1022 pages, and 10.3 has a Start Up paper manual of 250 pages
>> only. I wonder what he is using.
>>
>> And he hasn't reported back yet.
> Good point. I did notice there were no details. Maybe he has found the
> solution, but I haven't.
>>> Thomas did not make this clear, but if his trouble is the same as mine,
>>> we could use a bit more help. How to access the FD, if it is not
>>> recognized automatically.
>> You can check if there is an entry in the system browser. Are you
>> using gnome or kde? In gnome, go to the main menu, Places, Computer.
>> There should be a floppy entry, click on it. KDE will be similar.
> There is no entry there. (I use KDE) No reference to FD at all.
>> However, I don't use this method: I use the traditional manual mount.
> I would love to use this method, but have not learned it yet. Could you
> give a little help? Is it "mount fd" or does it call the drive by some
> name I can't find?
>> -- Cheers,
>> Carlos E. R.
>>
> Thanks, -ED-

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Re: Newcomer - problem with saving to a FD

Bugzilla from jbullock@rare-bird-ent.com
> Good morning from Japan.
> I am really greatful, that there are still people looking at my problem
> / message.
> The problem still remains unsolved.

<snip>

Well, Thomas your experience is unusual. With the popular consumer distributions
including of course OpenSuSE, most of the time an install "just works" and using
floppies as I & others have described also "just works." When something unusual
is going on, especially "doesn't work", you'll get very specific questions and
things to try. Now, with your feedback on the questions asked, we could dig
deeper if you wanted to.

When you have the time and interest to follow through with diagnosing your
particular problem, feel free to ask again.

--
Jim Bullock, Rare Bird Enterprises, "Conscious Development"
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rarebirdenterprises

Listen to a round table of experts in these books from Dorset House:
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Re: Newcomer - problem with saving to a FD

Ed McCanless
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
Carlos E. R. wrote:

>
>
> The Saturday 2008-03-15 at 13:49 -0400, Ed McCanless wrote:
>
> >> However, I don't use this method: I use the traditional manual mount.
> > I would love to use this method, but have not learned it yet. Could you
> > give a little help? Is it "mount fd" or does it call the drive by some
> > name I can't find?
>
> Easy enough :-)
>
> You edit /etc/fstab (as root) and add this line:
>
> /dev/fd0   /mnt/floppy   auto   noauto,user     0 0
>
> You need also to create the directory "/mnt/floppy". After that, the
> command "mount /mnt/floppy" should mount the floppy.
>
> Notice that I use "/mnt/floppy" instead of the customary
> "/media/floppy", because this way I differentiate manual from
> automatic mount.
>
> It is also possible that after this change the device appears in
> konqueror, too. In gnome I get icons for many of the fstab lines, even
> if I don't want them (the icons in the desktop).
>
> It is also possible that this does not work at all, if the device node
> "/dev/fd0" does not exist at all. In 10.3 these nodes are created on
> the fly when the kernel detects the drive. If it is not there, then
> that's the main problem to solve - and I have no idea how. It would be
> a bug, I suppose.
>
> -- Cheers,
>        Carlos E. R.
Thanks much, Carlos;
Sorry to be so long in replying. You command help worked fine, and I
also have the floppy drive showing in the menu, now.

                                  -ED-
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