New Tumbleweed snapshot 20180116 released!

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Re: plasma5 splash not going away, needs Mesa-dri installer, dependency issue (was: Re: [opensuse-factory] New Tumbleweed snapshot 20180116 released!)

Patrick Shanahan-2
* Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar <[hidden email]> [01-18-18 07:02]:

> On Thu, 2018-01-18 at 12:49 +0100, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
> > I suspect that there is an issue of some missing dependency that should
> > > > pull Mesa-dri in.
> > >
> > > Are you installing/maintaining your machine with --no-recommends?
> >
> > I am, indeed. But in this case, IMHO, it should be required and no "just"
> > recommended...?
>
> Difficult to say - since there are multiple Mesa-dri-* packages (that
> supplement Mesa and other X-related graphics drivers). Simply requiring
> 'any dri driver' might get you the wrong one installed on your system.
>
> If we have Mesa require Mesa-dri, we are back to the problem that
> anything pulling ni Mesa-headers must wait for llvm to build, even
> though nothing uses any dri driver in a build environment (and believe
> me, wating for llvm is nothing you want to do)
>
> The only option I'd see with a requires is to break it up in OBS (which
> is possible, but something I really try to avoid, as it's often causing
> interesting bug reports as it's easy to confuse packagers)

same problem on toshiba laptop with intel graphics.  installing Mesa-dri
solved.  odd that Mesa-dri was not previously installed, ever to my
knowledge.

did not have problem on an intel box with nvidia drivers.

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Re: plasma5 splash not going away, needs Mesa-dri installer, dependency issue (was: Re: [opensuse-factory] New Tumbleweed snapshot 20180116 released!)

Peter Suetterlin-2
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> * Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar <[hidden email]> [01-18-18 07:02]:

> > If we have Mesa require Mesa-dri, we are back to the problem that
> > anything pulling ni Mesa-headers must wait for llvm to build, even
> > though nothing uses any dri driver in a build environment (and believe
> > me, wating for llvm is nothing you want to do)

But why were they moved from Mesa to Mesa-dri?  Is it an option to just move
them back?

> same problem on toshiba laptop with intel graphics.  installing Mesa-dri
> solved.  odd that Mesa-dri was not previously installed, ever to my
> knowledge.

For me it had been on once, but I had removed it at some point.  The needed libs
were in the main Mesa package until yesterday....

> did not have problem on an intel box with nvidia drivers.

Will see tonight - my Intel-Nvidia box is at home....
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Re: ssh -X failing in 20180116

Roger Whittaker-2
In reply to this post by Roger Whittaker-2
On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 11:46:07AM +0000, Roger Whittaker wrote:

> The new openssh version 7.6p1-1.1 in 20180116 seems to break X
> forwarding with ssh -X.
>
> Reverting to 7.2p2-6.2 fixed the problem.
>
> I haven't really investigated - I just reverted quickly because I use
> this constantly.
>
> Is there something new about the configuration in 7.6p1-1.1 ?

In case this is of use to anyone else: the system I was connecting to
had ipv6 disabled, and in /etc/ssh/sshd_config had the default setting

AddressFamily any

With 7.2p2-6.2 I could ssh -X to it without problems.

After the update to 7.6p1-1.1 I needed to set

AddressFamily inet

and the problem was then solved.

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Re: plasma5 splash not going away, needs Mesa-dri installer, dependency issue (was: Re: [opensuse-factory] New Tumbleweed snapshot 20180116 released!)

Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar
In reply to this post by Peter Suetterlin-2
On Thu, 2018-01-18 at 13:51 +0000, Peter Suetterlin wrote:
> Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > * Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar <[hidden email]> [01-18-18 07:02]:
> > > If we have Mesa require Mesa-dri, we are back to the problem that
> > > anything pulling ni Mesa-headers must wait for llvm to build, even
> > > though nothing uses any dri driver in a build environment (and believe
> > > me, wating for llvm is nothing you want to do)
>
> But why were they moved from Mesa to Mesa-dri?  Is it an option to just move
> them back?

Moving them back is a no-go: The Mesa package needed to be split to
stop a build-dependency on LLVM; this is too expensive and continuisly
blcoked the entire distro from building. With this split of Mesa/Mesa-
drivers, we can much better parallelize the build of the distro (and
react sooner to issues)

Cheers
Dominique

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Re: ssh -X failing in 20180116

Jan Engelhardt-4
In reply to this post by Roger Whittaker-2

On Thursday 2018-01-18 15:01, Roger Whittaker wrote:

>On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 11:46:07AM +0000, Roger Whittaker wrote:
>
>> The new openssh version 7.6p1-1.1 in 20180116 seems to break X
>> forwarding with ssh -X.
>>
>> Reverting to 7.2p2-6.2 fixed the problem.
>>
>> I haven't really investigated - I just reverted quickly because I use
>> this constantly.
>>
>> Is there something new about the configuration in 7.6p1-1.1 ?
>
>In case this is of use to anyone else: the system I was connecting to
>had ipv6 disabled, and in /etc/ssh/sshd_config had the default setting
>After the update to 7.6p1-1.1 I needed to set
>
>AddressFamily inet
>
>and the problem was then solved.

Sounds more like a bandaid than a solution (like disabling IPv6 is).
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Re: ssh -X failing in 20180116

Petr Cerny
Jan Engelhardt wrote:

>
> On Thursday 2018-01-18 15:01, Roger Whittaker wrote:
>>On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 11:46:07AM +0000, Roger Whittaker wrote:
>>
>>> The new openssh version 7.6p1-1.1 in 20180116 seems to break X
>>> forwarding with ssh -X.
>>>
>>> Reverting to 7.2p2-6.2 fixed the problem.
>>>
>>> I haven't really investigated - I just reverted quickly because I use
>>> this constantly.
>>>
>>> Is there something new about the configuration in 7.6p1-1.1 ?
>>
>>In case this is of use to anyone else: the system I was connecting to
>>had ipv6 disabled, and in /etc/ssh/sshd_config had the default setting
>>After the update to 7.6p1-1.1 I needed to set
>>
>>AddressFamily inet
>>
>>and the problem was then solved.
>
> Sounds more like a bandaid than a solution (like disabling IPv6 is).

Let me rephrase it: I haven't yet rebased the bandaid we had in previous
packages - what you see is upstream behaviour. It will be fixed with
next update (about by the end of the next week).

That said, please do not use X forwarding unless you really must even
after ten people told you this sentence. Every time someone uses X
forwarding, <insert your favourite kitten/baby cries/dies/starves
combination or whatever>.

I strongly advocate using VNC (tunnelled through an ssh connection, if
you like) - quick guide: 1) start `Xnvc` (preferably through the
`vncserver`) - you'll need the xorg-x11-Xvnc package (on openSUSE); 2)
connect to it with a VNC client (e.g. tigervnc, but there are more). It
is also possible to attach to a running desktop session with x11vnc.

Thanks
Cheers
        Petr
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Re: plasma5 splash not going away, needs Mesa-dri installer, dependency issue (was: Re: [opensuse-factory] New Tumbleweed snapshot 20180116 released!)

Peter Suetterlin-2
In reply to this post by Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar
Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:

> On Thu, 2018-01-18 at 13:51 +0000, Peter Suetterlin wrote:
> > Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > > * Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar <[hidden email]> [01-18-18 07:02]:
> > > > If we have Mesa require Mesa-dri, we are back to the problem that
> > > > anything pulling ni Mesa-headers must wait for llvm to build, even
> > > > though nothing uses any dri driver in a build environment (and believe
> > > > me, wating for llvm is nothing you want to do)
> >
> > But why were they moved from Mesa to Mesa-dri?  Is it an option to just move
> > them back?
>
> Moving them back is a no-go: The Mesa package needed to be split to
> stop a build-dependency on LLVM; this is too expensive and continuisly
> blcoked the entire distro from building. With this split of Mesa/Mesa-
> drivers, we can much better parallelize the build of the distro (and
> react sooner to issues)

OK, I can understand this.

But do you really gain something if now Mesa-dri has to wait for llvm, and
Mesa-dri is needed for probably a huge part of the TW users?
Or can those be updated out-of-sync?
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Re: ssh -X failing in 20180116

H.Merijn Brand
In reply to this post by Petr Cerny
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 15:20:20 +0100, Petr Cerny <[hidden email]> wrote:

> That said, please do not use X forwarding unless you really must even
> after ten people told you this sentence. Every time someone uses X
> forwarding, <insert your favourite kitten/baby cries/dies/starves
> combination or whatever>.

Doesn't sound convincing. What is the most current definitive guide for
not using X11 forwarding? What should I tell a newby when he/she asks
*WHY* it should not be used?

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Re: ssh -X failing in 20180116

Peter Suetterlin-2
In reply to this post by Roger Whittaker-2
Roger Whittaker wrote:

>
> In case this is of use to anyone else: the system I was connecting to
> had ipv6 disabled, and in /etc/ssh/sshd_config had the default setting
>
> AddressFamily any
>
> With 7.2p2-6.2 I could ssh -X to it without problems.
>
> After the update to 7.6p1-1.1 I needed to set
>
> AddressFamily inet
>
> and the problem was then solved.

Interesting that this shows up only now for you.  In my Tips_and_Tricks file I
have an entry

X forwarding in openSUSE 12.3:
  If IPv6 is disabled, sshd_config needs
    AddressFamily INET
   
So it somehow seems to be a long-standing thing...
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Re: plasma5 splash not going away, needs Mesa-dri installer, dependency issue (was: Re: [opensuse-factory] New Tumbleweed snapshot 20180116 released!)

Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar
In reply to this post by Peter Suetterlin-2
On Thu, 2018-01-18 at 14:22 +0000, Peter Suetterlin wrote:

> Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:
> > On Thu, 2018-01-18 at 13:51 +0000, Peter Suetterlin wrote:
> > > Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > > > * Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar <[hidden email]> [01-18-18 07:02]:
> > > > > If we have Mesa require Mesa-dri, we are back to the problem that
> > > > > anything pulling ni Mesa-headers must wait for llvm to build, even
> > > > > though nothing uses any dri driver in a build environment (and believe
> > > > > me, wating for llvm is nothing you want to do)
> > >
> > > But why were they moved from Mesa to Mesa-dri?  Is it an option to just move
> > > them back?
> >
> > Moving them back is a no-go: The Mesa package needed to be split to
> > stop a build-dependency on LLVM; this is too expensive and continuisly
> > blcoked the entire distro from building. With this split of Mesa/Mesa-
> > drivers, we can much better parallelize the build of the distro (and
> > react sooner to issues)
>
> OK, I can understand this.
>
> But do you really gain something if now Mesa-dri has to wait for llvm, and
> Mesa-dri is needed for probably a huge part of the TW users?
> Or can those be updated out-of-sync?
We gain a lot even! Basically nothing depends on Mesa-dri to build; of
course we will still only be able to release a snapshot once everything
is built, but the build time graph is definitively much improved

dependson Mesa | wc -l
2323 -> that many package need Mesa to be built

dependson Mesa-drivers | wc -l
3 -> Those need to wait for Mesa-drivers

Having > 2k packages waiting for llvm/Mesa-drivers or only 3 makes a
huge difference.

And for completenes:
dependson llvm5 | wc -l
31 -> Things that have to wait for llvm5 now

Especially being able to build other large things like LibreOffice in
parallel makes a lot of difference.

Cheers
Dominique

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Re: ssh -X failing in 20180116

Peter Suetterlin-2
In reply to this post by Petr Cerny
Petr Cerny wrote:

> That said, please do not use X forwarding unless you really must even
> after ten people told you this sentence. Every time someone uses X
> forwarding, <insert your favourite kitten/baby cries/dies/starves
> combination or whatever>.
>
> I strongly advocate using VNC (tunnelled through an ssh connection, if
> you like) - quick guide: 1) start `Xnvc` (preferably through the
> `vncserver`) - you'll need the xorg-x11-Xvnc package (on openSUSE); 2)
> connect to it with a VNC client (e.g. tigervnc, but there are more). It
> is also possible to attach to a running desktop session with x11vnc.

Are you trying to indoctrinate people for Wayland?  Some background for this
'warning' definitely is needed.

I'll definitely not start a whole X session just for a single console
application that might (or not) open some graphics window.


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Re: plasma5 splash not going away, needs Mesa-dri installer, dependency issue (was: Re: [opensuse-factory] New Tumbleweed snapshot 20180116 released!)

Peter Suetterlin-2
In reply to this post by Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar
Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:

[ long explanation snipped ]

> Especially being able to build other large things like LibreOffice in
> parallel makes a lot of difference.

Thanks a lot.  I really appreciate such detailed information and (hope to) learn
from them every time :D
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Re: ssh -X failing in 20180116

Petr Cerny
In reply to this post by H.Merijn Brand
H.Merijn Brand wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 15:20:20 +0100, Petr Cerny <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> That said, please do not use X forwarding unless you really must even
>> after ten people told you this sentence. Every time someone uses X
>> forwarding, <insert your favourite kitten/baby cries/dies/starves
>> combination or whatever>.
>
> Doesn't sound convincing. What is the most current definitive guide for
> not using X11 forwarding? What should I tell a newby when he/she asks
> *WHY* it should not be used?

1) security - application can only grab inputs it gets from its X
server. If you run it in a Xvnc, it only gets input that it is sent by
the VNC client.

2) speed - the X protocol is usually much more verbose when compared to
VNC, since it carries requests to draw things, while VNC only transports
bitmaps (compressed). Try running Firefox via ssh -X and through VNC.
I've also seen things that just didn't work via SSH-forwarded X11.

3) network outages - X forwarded apps will break on connection
interrupt, VNC lives fully on the server and one can reconnect to it.

Downside of VNC is, that you may be putting more strain on the server
(the system that is running the application), but I would argue that if
that becomes the problem, the question actually is, whether running that
application remotely is the optimal solution (likely it isn't).

Thanks
Cheers
        Petr
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Re: ssh -X failing in 20180116

Petr Cerny
In reply to this post by Peter Suetterlin-2
Peter Suetterlin wrote:

> Petr Cerny wrote:
>
>> That said, please do not use X forwarding unless you really must even
>> after ten people told you this sentence. Every time someone uses X
>> forwarding, <insert your favourite kitten/baby cries/dies/starves
>> combination or whatever>.
>>
>> I strongly advocate using VNC (tunnelled through an ssh connection, if
>> you like) - quick guide: 1) start `Xnvc` (preferably through the
>> `vncserver`) - you'll need the xorg-x11-Xvnc package (on openSUSE); 2)
>> connect to it with a VNC client (e.g. tigervnc, but there are more). It
>> is also possible to attach to a running desktop session with x11vnc.
>
> Are you trying to indoctrinate people for Wayland?  Some background for this
> 'warning' definitely is needed.

I haven't mentioned Wayland anywhere, my statement was: "I strongly
advocate using VNC". If you would you like my opinion on Wayland, please
move it off this thread.

> I'll definitely not start a whole X session just for a single console
> application that might (or not) open some graphics window.

I haven't mentioned starting a whole X session (I suppose you understand
it as fully fledged GNOME/KDE environment). What Xnvc/vncserver does is
a matter of configuration.

Speaking of console application that may open a X window, that is
actually easily done with VNC as well. Just ssh to the remote side,
export the DISPLAY environment variable pointing to a Xvnc server
running on that machine and you are all set up (you may need to export
XAUTHORITY as well).

Thanks
Cheers
        Petr
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Re: ssh -X failing in 20180116

H.Merijn Brand
In reply to this post by Petr Cerny
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 15:40:00 +0100, Petr Cerny <[hidden email]> wrote:

> H.Merijn Brand wrote:
> > On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 15:20:20 +0100, Petr Cerny <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >  
> >> That said, please do not use X forwarding unless you really must even
> >> after ten people told you this sentence. Every time someone uses X
> >> forwarding, <insert your favourite kitten/baby cries/dies/starves
> >> combination or whatever>.  
> >
> > Doesn't sound convincing. What is the most current definitive guide for
> > not using X11 forwarding? What should I tell a newby when he/she asks
> > *WHY* it should not be used?  
I'll bite, not for war's, but to get as much info as possible on why I
should or should not use X11 versus VNC

I'll stop if the list finds this inappropriate here

> 1) security - application can only grab inputs it gets from its X
>    server. If you run it in a Xvnc, it only gets input that it is
>    sent by the VNC client.

A legit reason, but somewhat void if on an internal network behind big
firewalls

> 2) speed - the X protocol is usually much more verbose when compared to
>    VNC, since it carries requests to draw things, while VNC only transports
>    bitmaps (compressed). Try running Firefox via ssh -X and through VNC.
>    I've also seen things that just didn't work via SSH-forwarded X11.

With 100+ synchronous networks on both end, who will notice?

> 3) network outages - X forwarded apps will break on connection
>    interrupt, VNC lives fully on the server and one can reconnect to it.

I've seen outages of close to 2 minutes and the client still managed to
"revive" the application/window. If I need the output, it is likely I
have a long running process, and then I'll start screen.

> Downside of VNC is, that you may be putting more strain on the server
> (the system that is running the application), but I would argue that if
> that becomes the problem, the question actually is, whether running that
> application remotely is the optimal solution (likely it isn't).

Another downside is that the server needs to be set up. When using X11
forwarding, both sides are likely to support the protocol by default.

For me, the fact that the server gets a higher load, alone is good
enough a reason not to use VNC but stick to ssh -Y. My server(s) are
usually under a higher strain than my desktop is. That's why it is a
server, right?

Now if all distributions had tools like YaST2 that work fine in non-X11
environments (ASCII only), I would not need X11 that much, but the
competing distro's like CentOS- and Ubuntu-like still require an awful
lot of tools to show in GUI's (X11). Try finding how to install a
printer in Ubuntu: 90% og the pages you find start with "Click on ..."
like they expect you to have a desktop. For me that usually is

 $ ssh -Y admin_user@server
 server$ sudo bash
 $ system-config-printer

openSUSE++

 $ sudo yast2 printer

> Cheers
> Petr

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using perl5.00307 .. 5.27   porting perl5 on HP-UX, AIX, and openSUSE
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Re: ssh -X failing in 20180116

Petr Cerny
H.Merijn Brand wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 15:40:00 +0100, Petr Cerny <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > not using X11 forwarding? What should I tell a newby when he/she asks
>> > *WHY* it should not be used?  
>
> I'll bite, not for war's, but to get as much info as possible on why I
> should or should not use X11 versus VNC
>
>> 1) security - application can only grab inputs it gets from its X
>>    server. If you run it in a Xvnc, it only gets input that it is
>>    sent by the VNC client.
>
> A legit reason, but somewhat void if on an internal network behind big
> firewalls

The key word is "somewhat". The question is not whether there are
attackers on your network, but how many.

>> 2) speed - the X protocol is usually much more verbose when compared to
>>    VNC, since it carries requests to draw things, while VNC only transports
>>    bitmaps (compressed). Try running Firefox via ssh -X and through VNC.
>>    I've also seen things that just didn't work via SSH-forwarded X11.
>
> With 100+ synchronous networks on both end, who will notice?

Out of curiosity: have you actually tried?

>> 3) network outages - X forwarded apps will break on connection
>>    interrupt, VNC lives fully on the server and one can reconnect to it.
>
> I've seen outages of close to 2 minutes and the client still managed to
> "revive" the application/window. If I need the output, it is likely I
> have a long running process, and then I'll start screen.

VNC *is* screen/tmux for X11 applications

>> Downside of VNC is, that you may be putting more strain on the server
>> (the system that is running the application), but I would argue that if
>> that becomes the problem, the question actually is, whether running that
>> application remotely is the optimal solution (likely it isn't).
>
> Another downside is that the server needs to be set up. When using X11
> forwarding, both sides are likely to support the protocol by default.

Installing 1 package on the server and one on the client (plus optional
dependencies shouldn't be that much of an effort). Configuration is a
matter of 5 minutes (20 if you include reading man pages).

> For me, the fact that the server gets a higher load, alone is good
> enough a reason not to use VNC but stick to ssh -Y. My server(s) are
> usually under a higher strain than my desktop is. That's why it is a
> server, right?

Try checking the load a heavy graphic app puts on your system when
running as X11@SSH and VNC (I haven't benchmarked it). Or just check
whatever you are usually running.

> Now if all distributions had tools like YaST2 that work fine in non-X11
> environments (ASCII only), I would not need X11 that much, but the
> competing distro's like CentOS- and Ubuntu-like still require an awful
> lot of tools to show in GUI's (X11). Try finding how to install a
> printer in Ubuntu: 90% og the pages you find start with "Click on ..."
> like they expect you to have a desktop. For me that usually is
>
>  $ ssh -Y admin_user@server
>  server$ sudo bash
>  $ system-config-printer

I feel your pain, yet this argument is almost irrelevant to what we're
discussing now (almost since it is a bit easier to run `ssh -Y` than
invoking the ssh+vncserver+vncviewer combo indeed - but then we have
scripting languages...).

> openSUSE++
>
>  $ sudo yast2 printer

Thanks
Cheers
        Petr
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Re: ssh -X failing in 20180116

Peter Suetterlin-2
In reply to this post by Petr Cerny
Petr Cerny wrote:
> Peter Suetterlin wrote:
> >
> > Are you trying to indoctrinate people for Wayland?  Some background for this
> > 'warning' definitely is needed.
>
> I haven't mentioned Wayland anywhere, my statement was: "I strongly
> advocate using VNC". If you would you like my opinion on Wayland, please
> move it off this thread.

No, just curious.  Most people I met so far trying to push VNC for everything
were (also) wayland wanters.  Doesn't really matter....

> > I'll definitely not start a whole X session just for a single console
> > application that might (or not) open some graphics window.
>
> I haven't mentioned starting a whole X session (I suppose you understand
> it as fully fledged GNOME/KDE environment). What Xnvc/vncserver does is
> a matter of configuration.

Sure, it's still the X server plus some window manager.  With 20 users doing
that on our server that might consume quite a part of its memory that is much
better used for data processing...

> Speaking of console application that may open a X window, that is
> actually easily done with VNC as well. Just ssh to the remote side,
> export the DISPLAY environment variable pointing to a Xvnc server
> running on that machine and you are all set up (you may need to export
> XAUTHORITY as well).

Yes.  It's possible.  But needs (quite some) configuration, opposite to the X
forwarding.  

I guess my main issue is your general condemnation of forwarding.  For me, this
largely depends on context.  Our main use of forwarding is an ssh -X login to a
server, run computational-heavy stuff in languages like IDL or Python from the
command line, and display results.  This in the local network.

Your assumed application(?) rather is running something like a browser or IDE
via forwarding.  I completely agree with you that for that purpose VNC is
superior.  But X forwarding in ssh *does* have many reasonable applications.

And I strongly believe that no cat is harmed by doing it :D

(The only thing I personally use VNC for regularly is x11vnc_ssh, to connect to
running sessions of remote users for support)
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Re: ssh -X failing in 20180116

Jan Engelhardt-4
In reply to this post by Petr Cerny
On Thursday 2018-01-18 16:16, Petr Cerny wrote:

>H.Merijn Brand wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 15:40:00 +0100, Petr Cerny <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> > not using X11 forwarding? What should I tell a newby when he/she asks
>>> > *WHY* it should not be used?  
>>
>> I'll bite, not for war's, but to get as much info as possible on why I
>> should or should not use X11 versus VNC
>>
>>> 1) security - application can only grab inputs it gets from its X
>>>    server. If you run it in a Xvnc, it only gets input that it is
>>>    sent by the VNC client.
>>
>> A legit reason, but somewhat void if on an internal network behind big
>> firewalls
>
>The key word is "somewhat". The question is not whether there are
>attackers on your network, but how many.

But SSH's security mechanisms win over VNC. And running VNC through ssh
-L gets into the realm of "more security means less usability". Hrrm -
probably pick RDP over VNC?

>>> 2) speed - the X protocol is usually much more verbose when compared to
>>>    VNC, since it carries requests to draw things, while VNC only transports
>>>    bitmaps (compressed). Try running Firefox via ssh -X and through VNC.
>>>    I've also seen things that just didn't work via SSH-forwarded X11.
>>
>> With 100+ synchronous networks on both end, who will notice?
>
>Out of curiosity: have you actually tried?

I had the fun of experiencing SunRays 15 years ago. Worked like X11 -
which means it only worked well so long as the line was neither
congested nor latent.

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Re: ssh -X failing in 20180116

Martin Herkt
In reply to this post by Petr Cerny
On Donnerstag, 18. Januar 2018 15:20:20 CET Petr Cerny wrote:

> That said, please do not use X forwarding unless you really must even
> after ten people told you this sentence. Every time someone uses X
> forwarding, <insert your favourite kitten/baby cries/dies/starves
> combination or whatever>.
>
> I strongly advocate using VNC (tunnelled through an ssh connection, if
> you like) - quick guide: 1) start `Xnvc` (preferably through the
> `vncserver`) - you'll need the xorg-x11-Xvnc package (on openSUSE); 2)
> connect to it with a VNC client (e.g. tigervnc, but there are more). It
> is also possible to attach to a running desktop session with x11vnc.
I second that. Note: There’s xrdp, too, which is compatible with Windows’
built-in RDP client and also supports forwarding audio, clipboard and other
things, and it can forward single application windows (rather than a full
session). However, setup is unfortunately more complicated than sshd.

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Re: ssh -X failing in 20180116

Roger Whittaker-2
In reply to this post by Petr Cerny
On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 03:20:20PM +0100, Petr Cerny wrote:

[...]

> I strongly advocate using VNC (tunnelled through an ssh connection, if
> you like) - quick guide: 1) start `Xnvc` (preferably through the
> `vncserver`) - you'll need the xorg-x11-Xvnc package (on openSUSE); 2)
> connect to it with a VNC client (e.g. tigervnc, but there are more). It
> is also possible to attach to a running desktop session with x11vnc.

On current tumbleweed doing this fails with errors of the following
type from vncviewer.  

Thu Jan 18 17:34:58 2018
 DecodeManager: Detected 4 CPU core(s)
 DecodeManager: Creating 4 decoder thread(s)
 CConn:       connected to host teapot port 5902
 CConnection: Server supports RFB protocol version 3.8
 CConnection: Using RFB protocol version 3.8
 CConnection: Choosing security type VeNCrypt(19)
 CVeNCrypt:   Choosing security type [unknown secType] (0)
 CConn:       No valid VeNCrypt sub-type


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