Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it

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Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it

Basil Chupin-2
I downloaded and installed Milestone #1 on a spare set of HDDs when MS
#1 became available.

Several days ago I decided to actually switch to using MS #1 as my "main
computer"[*].

I haven't had to return to my now-used-for-many-months 12.1 in all this
time.

MS #1 works perfectly for me - and it works faster than 12.1 even though
the HDDs I am using are ancient/slower than the ones on which I have
12.1 installed.

There are a couple of minor glitches with MS #1 but nothing to really
complain about especially considering that it *IS* only MS #1 (and at
least one glitch is simply caused by the fact that one piece of software
I use doesn't recognise '12.2' as a version and only knows about
'12.1'[**]).

What I am suggesting here is that it would be great if those who haven't
thought about downloading 12.1 Milestone #1 would consider doing so so
that the bugs in 12.2 could be identified more quickly - *BUT* I state
this with a *qualification*: Milestone #2 is due out this week so
perhaps it would pay to just wait for a day or so and use MS #2.

If MS #1 is so good, MS #2 cannot be worse (yeah, yeah, yeah....famous
last words and all that....  .)


[*] 32-bit, AMD Athlon 3200+ XP, nVidia 7600 GT, all put together with
my own little hands years ago...

[**] I guess there must be some reason for this, but why cannot
applications simply check for the most important dependency rather than
a version number before they will install/run?

BC

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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it

Patrick Shanahan-2
* Basil Chupin <[hidden email]> [03-12-12 02:05]:

> I downloaded and installed Milestone #1 on a spare set of HDDs when MS #1
> became available.
>
> Several days ago I decided to actually switch to using MS #1 as my "main
> computer"[*].
>
> I haven't had to return to my now-used-for-many-months 12.1 in all this
> time.
>
> MS #1 works perfectly for me - and it works faster than 12.1 even though the
> HDDs I am using are ancient/slower than the ones on which I have 12.1
> installed.
>

you *should* echo your accolades on the opensuse-factory list  :^)

I also have 12.2ms1+ running on a test box.
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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it

Thomas Taylor
On Mon, 12 Mar 2012 11:16:16 -0400
Patrick Shanahan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> * Basil Chupin <[hidden email]> [03-12-12 02:05]:
> > I downloaded and installed Milestone #1 on a spare set of HDDs when MS #1
> > became available.
> >
> > Several days ago I decided to actually switch to using MS #1 as my "main
> > computer"[*].
> >
> > I haven't had to return to my now-used-for-many-months 12.1 in all this
> > time.
> >
> > MS #1 works perfectly for me - and it works faster than 12.1 even though the
> > HDDs I am using are ancient/slower than the ones on which I have 12.1
> > installed.
> >
>
> you *should* echo your accolades on the opensuse-factory list  :^)
>
> I also have 12.2ms1+ running on a test box.

I also am using 12.2-M1 only at the moment.  Did run into one problem with
"tracker" causing bottlenecks.  This was solved by uninstalling "tracker" in
Yast2 and rebooting.  Oh, one other minor problem, any time I try to print from
Firefox (10.0) it crashes.  Haven't gotten down to perusing the logs yet.

Tom

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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it

Basil Chupin-2
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan-2
On 13/03/12 02:16, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

> * Basil Chupin<[hidden email]>  [03-12-12 02:05]:
>> I downloaded and installed Milestone #1 on a spare set of HDDs when MS #1
>> became available.
>>
>> Several days ago I decided to actually switch to using MS #1 as my "main
>> computer"[*].
>>
>> I haven't had to return to my now-used-for-many-months 12.1 in all this
>> time.
>>
>> MS #1 works perfectly for me - and it works faster than 12.1 even though the
>> HDDs I am using are ancient/slower than the ones on which I have 12.1
>> installed.
>>
> you *should* echo your accolades on the opensuse-factory list  :^)
>
> I also have 12.2ms1+ running on a test box.

It would only get lost in The Zypper Overwrites Lines saga :-( .

In any case, my post was to prod people who don't read Factory to try
out Milestone #1 :-) .

Those who do read Factory already know how 'good' it is: nobody has
complained  there :-) .

(Yeah,yeah, I know....I'm ahead of you Patrick..... :-) .)

BC

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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it

Basil Chupin-2
In reply to this post by Thomas Taylor
On 13/03/12 09:09, Thomas Taylor wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Mar 2012 11:16:16 -0400
> Patrick Shanahan<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> * Basil Chupin<[hidden email]>  [03-12-12 02:05]:
>>> I downloaded and installed Milestone #1 on a spare set of HDDs when MS #1
>>> became available.
>>>
>>> Several days ago I decided to actually switch to using MS #1 as my "main
>>> computer"[*].
>>>
>>> I haven't had to return to my now-used-for-many-months 12.1 in all this
>>> time.
>>>
>>> MS #1 works perfectly for me - and it works faster than 12.1 even though the
>>> HDDs I am using are ancient/slower than the ones on which I have 12.1
>>> installed.
>>>
>> you *should* echo your accolades on the opensuse-factory list  :^)
>>
>> I also have 12.2ms1+ running on a test box.

At this point I would think that part of Patrick's suggestion is now
becoming relevant: further discussion should go to Factory which handles
not-as-yet-released-versions.

However, I will comment on what you wrote.

> I also am using 12.2-M1 only at the moment. Did run into one problem
> with "tracker" causing bottlenecks. This was solved by uninstalling
> "tracker" in Yast2 and rebooting.

I have no need for "tracker" so it doesn't affect me.


> Oh, one other minor problem, any time I try to print from Firefox
> (10.0) it crashes. Haven't gotten down to perusing the logs yet. Tom

*BUT* this one is a doozey :-) .

I hadn't tried to print anything but after you mentioned the above I
found that trying to print using EITHER Firefox or Thunderbird
immediately crashes them. No ifs or buts - just crashes them :-( .

(I also have to add that several days ago I mentioned that there is a
new addon for Firefox called COLLUSION which gives a graphical display
showing which site is providing cookies to other sites in order to track
you. Well, with this COLLUSION installed Firefox immediately, do not
pass Go do not collect $200, crashes. If anyone experiences this then
delete in the Firefox Extensions the file jetpack.xpi.)

BC

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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it

Patrick Shanahan-2
In reply to this post by Basil Chupin-2
* Basil Chupin <[hidden email]> [03-13-12 00:44]:
> On 13/03/12 02:16, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> >>
> >you *should* echo your accolades on the opensuse-factory list  :^)
> >
> >I also have 12.2ms1+ running on a test box.
>
> It would only get lost in The Zypper Overwrites Lines saga :-( .

?? unnecessary slam #1
 
> In any case, my post was to prod people who don't read Factory to try out
> Milestone #1 :-) .

?? unnecessary slam #2
 
> Those who do read Factory already know how 'good' it is: nobody has
> complained  there :-) .

?? possibly #3 ??
 
> (Yeah,yeah, I know....I'm ahead of you Patrick..... :-) .)

guess not, no real reason to pat anyone on the back for their unpaid and
generally un-rewarded effords, and I'm sure the slams would not be
appreciated.  But that is your call/choice.

and I guess I am still *behind*.
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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it

Basil Chupin-2
On 14/03/12 00:12, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

> * Basil Chupin<[hidden email]>  [03-13-12 00:44]:
>> On 13/03/12 02:16, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>>> you *should* echo your accolades on the opensuse-factory list  :^)
>>>
>>> I also have 12.2ms1+ running on a test box.
>> It would only get lost in The Zypper Overwrites Lines saga :-( .
> ?? unnecessary slam #1
>
>> In any case, my post was to prod people who don't read Factory to try out
>> Milestone #1 :-) .
> ?? unnecessary slam #2
>
>> Those who do read Factory already know how 'good' it is: nobody has
>> complained  there :-) .
> ?? possibly #3 ??
>
>> (Yeah,yeah, I know....I'm ahead of you Patrick..... :-) .)
> guess not, no real reason to pat anyone on the back for their unpaid and
> generally un-rewarded effords, and I'm sure the slams would not be
> appreciated.  But that is your call/choice.
>
> and I guess I am still *behind*.

Watcha talking about, Patrick, with all this "slams" rubbish? I wish you
would stop being so paranoid about "slams" and "bad karmas" and such.

I think that I did a much better "pat on the back for a job well done"
by posting HERE rather than Factory because more people read THIS mail
list than those who read Factory.

And when I wrote, "Those who do read Factory already know how 'good' it
is: nobody has complained  there :-) ." followed by, "(Yeah,yeah, I
know....I'm ahead of you Patrick..... :-) .)" I was expecting you to
jump in and in your usual pedantic way respond with, "Of course there
wouldn't be any complaints in Factory because complaints go to
Bugzilla".  So, you missed out on this one this time, didn't you? but
instead worked the "slams" nonsense angle.

BC

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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it - UPDATE RE COLLUSION ADDON FOR FF

Basil Chupin-2
In reply to this post by Basil Chupin-2
On 13/03/12 16:00, Basil Chupin wrote:

[pruned]


> (I also have to add that several days ago I mentioned that there is a
> new addon for Firefox called COLLUSION which gives a graphical display
> showing which site is providing cookies to other sites in order to
> track you. Well, with this COLLUSION installed Firefox immediately, do
> not pass Go do not collect $200, crashes. If anyone experiences this
> then delete in the Firefox Extensions the file jetpack.xpi.)
>
> BC

For those who may be interested.

Because there is no version 11 of Firefox (nor of Thunderbird) available
as yet for openSUSE 12.1, I downloaded FF (and TB) v11 directly from
Mozilla.org earlier today and installed it.

Then I decided to try to see if Collusion would crash FF.

Nope, Collusion does not crash FF v11.

FF installed from openSUSE crashes with Collusion but FF from
Mozilla.org is not affected by Collusion.

I don't know what to conclude from this.

BC

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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it - UPDATE RE COLLUSION ADDON FOR FF

Patrick Shanahan-2
* Basil Chupin <[hidden email]> [03-16-12 01:13]:

>
> For those who may be interested.
>
> Because there is no version 11 of Firefox (nor of Thunderbird) available as
> yet for openSUSE 12.1, I downloaded FF (and TB) v11 directly from
> Mozilla.org earlier today and installed it.
>
> Then I decided to try to see if Collusion would crash FF.
>
> Nope, Collusion does not crash FF v11.
>
> FF installed from openSUSE crashes with Collusion but FF from Mozilla.org is
> not affected by Collusion.
>
> I don't know what to conclude from this.

conclusion:  opensuse bug report warranted!

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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it - UPDATE RE COLLUSION ADDON FOR FF

Basil Chupin-2
On 16/03/12 23:40, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

> * Basil Chupin<[hidden email]>  [03-16-12 01:13]:
>> For those who may be interested.
>>
>> Because there is no version 11 of Firefox (nor of Thunderbird) available as
>> yet for openSUSE 12.1, I downloaded FF (and TB) v11 directly from
>> Mozilla.org earlier today and installed it.
>>
>> Then I decided to try to see if Collusion would crash FF.
>>
>> Nope, Collusion does not crash FF v11.
>>
>> FF installed from openSUSE crashes with Collusion but FF from Mozilla.org is
>> not affected by Collusion.
>>
>> I don't know what to conclude from this.
> conclusion:  opensuse bug report warranted!

I am not sure that such a report is warranted to bugzilla as it may well
be anther "incompatible" add-on with the problem caused at the add-on's
end. The other thing is that this add-on is still in its development
stage - and it is not all that well known. If other people start
reporting the same problem then the case for a message to Bugzilla
becomes stronger.

But regarding reporting bugs, one of the very nice features of Mozilla,
both Firefox and Thunderbird, is that both automatically generate a bug
report when either has a problem and which is sent when you go to
restart the application. No need for you to login to the Bugzilla site,
go thru all the log-in procedure etc. Mozilla just prepares a report
with all the necessary details and sends it back to Mozilla.

BC

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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it - UPDATE RE COLLUSION ADDON FOR FF

Patrick Shanahan-2
* Basil Chupin <[hidden email]> [03-16-12 09:12]:
> I am not sure that such a report is warranted to bugzilla as it may well be
> anther "incompatible" add-on with the problem caused at the add-on's end.
> The other thing is that this add-on is still in its development stage - and
> it is not all that well known. If other people start reporting the same
> problem then the case for a message to Bugzilla becomes stronger.

toooo much thinking
If the bug is invalid, it will be denied.
 
> But regarding reporting bugs, one of the very nice features of Mozilla, both
> Firefox and Thunderbird, is that both automatically generate a bug report
> when either has a problem and which is sent when you go to restart the
> application. No need for you to login to the Bugzilla site, go thru all the
> log-in procedure etc.

this is nice for mozilla

> Mozilla just prepares a report with all the necessary details and sends
> it back to Mozilla.

but does what for an opensuse problem?  It is an "opensuse" version of a
mozilla product which has the problem.

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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it

LLLActive@GMX.Net
In reply to this post by Basil Chupin-2
> What I am suggesting here is that it would be great if those who
> haven't thought about downloading 12.1 Milestone #1 would consider
> doing so so that the bugs in 12.2 could be identified more quickly -
> *BUT* I state this with a *qualification*: Milestone #2 is due out
> this week so perhaps it would pay to just wait for a day or so and use
> MS #2.
> ...
> BC

I'd also like to try this on a VirtualBox installation as a user on
usability and comparison to other OS's, and to also maybe address the
issue discussed earlier about communication with developers.
Would it not be more helpful at this early stage to start discussions,
and not wait for final releases. The problem at the moment could be that
there are no non-technical users trying out Milestones or are going to
look at Factory. Should such users be attracted at this early stage?
What are the experiences by developers? Is it helpful or is it more of a
hindrance? Can non-technical users do the same as regular testers? Are
the regular testers at openSUSE developers or technical-users? I think
anyone can be a tester, but how can non-technical users be attracted to
give feedback on usability etc. at an early stage.

You mention that M#2 should be here this week. I found a roadmap here:
http://news.opensuse.org/2012/01/21/opensuse-11-3-eoled-12-2-on-the-way/. Here
M#2 should be out on 3rd March - can't find it though. Was there a
change of plan, or is there another roadmap?

.oOOo.
.Dreiel.

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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it

Patrick Shanahan-2
* [hidden email] <[hidden email]> [03-16-12 17:00]:

>
> I'd also like to try this on a VirtualBox installation as a user on
> usability and comparison to other OS's, and to also maybe address the issue
> discussed earlier about communication with developers.
> Would it not be more helpful at this early stage to start discussions, and
> not wait for final releases. The problem at the moment could be that there
> are no non-technical users trying out Milestones or are going to look at
> Factory. Should such users be attracted at this early stage? What are the
> experiences by developers? Is it helpful or is it more of a hindrance? Can
> non-technical users do the same as regular testers? Are the regular testers
> at openSUSE developers or technical-users? I think anyone can be a tester,
> but how can non-technical users be attracted to give feedback on usability
> etc. at an early stage.
>
> You mention that M#2 should be here this week. I found a roadmap here:
> http://news.opensuse.org/2012/01/21/opensuse-11-3-eoled-12-2-on-the-way/.
> Here M#2 should be out on 3rd March - can't find it though. Was there a
> change of plan, or is there another roadmap?
>

This discussion belongs in factory where knowledgeable people can answer
and advise.  And, should you have been following factory, you would know
that ms2 was delayed but should appear ~Monday.

And there are *many* reasons for as many people as possible to use/try
factory/12.2/ms2/ms3/...  And for citing problems and for reporting via
bugzilla difficulties and failures.

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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it

Steven Hess-3
Where is the how-to on installing it and reporting problems? I have a
machine that I can install it on.


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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it

Patrick Shanahan-2
* Steven Hess <[hidden email]> [03-16-12 18:35]:
> Where is the how-to on installing it and reporting problems? I have a
> machine that I can install it on.

the discussion belongs in opensuse-factory,
you didn't understand:
<quote>
This discussion belongs in factory where knowledgeable people can answer                                                                
and advise.  And, should you have been following factory, you would know                                                                
that ms2 was delayed but should appear ~Monday.                                                                                        
</quote>

but I'll tell you anyway.

http://software.opensuse.org/developer/en

further discussion *will* be in opensuse-factory!

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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it

Felix Miata-3
In reply to this post by Steven Hess-3
On 2012/03/16 15:34 (GMT-0700) Steven Hess composed:

> Where is the how-to on installing it and reporting problems? I have a
> machine that I can install it on.

1st hit: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=opensuse+factory
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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it - UPDATE RE COLLUSION ADDON FOR FF

Basil Chupin-2
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan-2
On 17/03/12 00:18, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> * Basil Chupin<[hidden email]>  [03-16-12 09:12]:
>> I am not sure that such a report is warranted to bugzilla as it may well be
>> anther "incompatible" add-on with the problem caused at the add-on's end.
>> The other thing is that this add-on is still in its development stage - and
>> it is not all that well known. If other people start reporting the same
>> problem then the case for a message to Bugzilla becomes stronger.
> toooo much thinking

I have been known to think on certain occasions - and too much quite
often as well :-D .

> If the bug is invalid, it will be denied.

A non-argument. From some posts I have read over the years even valid
bugs have been marked as invalid :-) .


> But regarding reporting bugs, one of the very nice features of Mozilla, both
> Firefox and Thunderbird, is that both automatically generate a bug report
> when either has a problem and which is sent when you go to restart the
> application. No need for you to login to the Bugzilla site, go thru all the
> log-in procedure etc.
> this is nice for mozilla

Yes, I think that it is very nice for the devs to have done some
pro-active thinking and introduced this feature quite some time ago.


> Mozilla just prepares a report with all the necessary details and sends
> it back to Mozilla.
> but does what for an opensuse problem?  It is an "opensuse" version of a
> mozilla product which has the problem.


Perhaps ask the Mozilla people to have the auto bug reports also sent to
openSUSE?

BC

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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it

Basil Chupin-2
In reply to this post by LLLActive@GMX.Net
On 17/03/12 07:58, [hidden email] wrote:

>> What I am suggesting here is that it would be great if those who
>> haven't thought about downloading 12.1 Milestone #1 would consider
>> doing so so that the bugs in 12.2 could be identified more quickly -
>> *BUT* I state this with a *qualification*: Milestone #2 is due out
>> this week so perhaps it would pay to just wait for a day or so and
>> use MS #2.
>> ...
>> BC
>
> I'd also like to try this on a VirtualBox installation as a user on
> usability and comparison to other OS's, and to also maybe address the
> issue discussed earlier about communication with developers.
> Would it not be more helpful at this early stage to start discussions,
> and not wait for final releases. The problem at the moment could be
> that there are no non-technical users trying out Milestones or are
> going to look at Factory. Should such users be attracted at this early
> stage? What are the experiences by developers? Is it helpful or is it
> more of a hindrance? Can non-technical users do the same as regular
> testers? Are the regular testers at openSUSE developers or
> technical-users? I think anyone can be a tester, but how can
> non-technical users be attracted to give feedback on usability etc. at
> an early stage.
>
> You mention that M#2 should be here this week. I found a roadmap here:
> http://news.opensuse.org/2012/01/21/opensuse-11-3-eoled-12-2-on-the-way/.
> Here M#2 should be out on 3rd March - can't find it though. Was there
> a change of plan, or is there another roadmap?

There were unresolved "naughties" as well as technical problems with
compiling the files and the release was delayed. This was mentioned - as
well as anything to do with work-in-progress - in the opensuse-factory
mail list. The official release of MIlestone #2 is now supposed to occur
this coming Monday.

HOWEVER, Milestone #2 could be obtained by using 'zypper refresh/up
ordup/' route now BUT I DO NOT RECOMMEND IT as me doing so this morning
stuffed up - for me at least - my MS #1 installation and from which I
cannot easily recover, and installing MS #2 as a fresh install is the
only way to go (for me).

BC

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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it

Basil Chupin-2
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan-2
On 17/03/12 09:43, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

> * Steven Hess<[hidden email]>  [03-16-12 18:35]:
>> Where is the how-to on installing it and reporting problems? I have a
>> machine that I can install it on.
> the discussion belongs in opensuse-factory,
> you didn't understand:
> <quote>
> This discussion belongs in factory where knowledgeable people can answer
> and advise.  And, should you have been following factory, you would know
> that ms2 was delayed but should appear ~Monday.
> </quote>
>
> but I'll tell you anyway.
>
> http://software.opensuse.org/developer/en
>
> further discussion *will* be in opensuse-factory!

Forgive my strange sense of humour, Patrick, but when I read the above
the first thing which came to mind was, "Gosh, he is just like Frank
Burns in M.A.S.H.!"

But, you know, I wonder if you have got the message about all of this?

People in this mail list are now asking where they can go and get
Milestone #1 or #2 of the openSUSE 12.2. They didn't know this
information until you mentioned it above.

Isn't that marvellous? Providing people with information about their
preferred Linux distribution?

I think that is great.

And there wasn't a single PR person from openSUSE around to do this.
Just me and you Patrick. Think about it :-) .

BC

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Re: Milestone 1 openSUSE 12.2 - my comments on it - UPDATE RE COLLUSION ADDON FOR FF

Wolfgang Rosenauer-4
In reply to this post by Basil Chupin-2
Hi,

Am 17.03.2012 07:19, schrieb Basil Chupin:
>
>> Mozilla just prepares a report with all the necessary details and sends
>> it back to Mozilla.
>> but does what for an opensuse problem?  It is an "opensuse" version of a
>> mozilla product which has the problem.
>
> Perhaps ask the Mozilla people to have the auto bug reports also sent to
> openSUSE?

There is a misunderstanding here. Not every crash sent to Mozilla will
end up in a bugreport. Only crashes which happen to a _lot_ of users get
enough attention automatically.
So in case there are crashes which only affect openSUSE they will
probably stay unrecognized.

It's also not easily possible for me to recognize reports which were
sent by openSUSE packages on crash-stats.mozilla.com unfortunately. So
if you want to be sure that a crash is being looked at you should send
the crash report to mozilla and let us know the crash id (about:crashes)
within a bugzilla entry @ bugzilla.novell.com


Wolfgang
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