Leap 42.3: Only GTK apps start, all others segfault at startup

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Re: hyperkitty

Felix Miata-3
Ludwig Nussel composed on 2017-06-19 15:25 (UTC+0200):
.
> Am 18.06.2017 um 21:05 schrieb Neal Gompa:
>> [...]
>> Heck, in Fedora, we *developed* HyperKitty and Posterius for Mailman 3
>> specifically to address this pain point.

> Any chance for someone to package that? Might be the first step to
> getting it deployed.
.
If either HyperKitty or Posterious are responsible for the misery that is Fedora
mailing list archives, pray neither happen to openSUSE. Usability of Fedora
mailing list archives is terrible compared to default Mailman archive
configuration. Only Google Groups is categorically as bad as Fedora's, though
Yahoogroups isn't far behind.
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Re: hyperkitty

Anton Aylward-2
On 19/06/17 09:43 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
> Only Google Groups is categorically as bad as Fedora's, though
> Yahoogroups isn't far behind.

I'm not arguing.
One GoogleGroup list I'm on, a subscriber built his own index using a full text
scanner/indexer, then made the index available on his own web site to other
users of that list.   That was a decade ago.

That kind of indexing software is not anything leading edge.  Its a bit above
the QuickIndex that was in 1978 UNIX but still far behind anything the Google
indexer can achieve in speed and completeness.

My point is that a good indexer is not difficult.

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Re: OT: Userfriendliness of mailing list, was: Re: [opensuse-factory] Leap 42.3: Only GTK apps start, all others segfault at startup

Michal Suchánek
In reply to this post by Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink
On Mon, 19 Jun 2017 15:26:22 +0200
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Op maandag 19 juni 2017 14:56:01 CEST schreef Michal Suchánek:
>
> > On the other hand, forums are one huge useless inaccessible archive
> > which works really hard to prevent anyone from accessing the data it
> > contains. It is considered a feature that users cannot access some
> > posts so you cannot export them in an usable way without breaking
> > the usage paradigm that administrators can limit access to posts.
> > And if you want to see a forum without access limitations there is
> > at least one - it's called 4chan ;-)
> >  
>
> Sorry to say so: saying so about social media like Facebook, G+ is
> OK, but this is not true for (at least) the openSUSE forums.
>
> site: forums.opensuse.org 'searchstring' in Google search

I exclude the "site: forums.opensuse.org" and if it happens to give
SUSE forum results or Ubuntu forums results that look useful that's
fine with me.

> search function of the forums works fine too.

Not for me. I was not able to locate posts which the above method
pointed out and turned out useful.

For example
https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/439173-prevent-an-update-from-being-installed-(zypper-package-locks)
talks about package locks but when I put "package locks" in the
forum search field and press search I get no results. This is not
surprising at all. All forums I have used so far have broken search
feature.

>
> > Thanks
> >
> > Michal  
>
> I even dare to say that for a lot of people forums are more
> friendlier. All the subforums, different languages, an openSUSE
> version tagging sysotem, moderators that point out to new users how
> to create decent posts, and, last but not least NNTP access for those
> who don't want to use the web-interface.
>

NNTP access is nice. However, to not split the community in forum users
and mailing list users it would be helpful to bridge that NNTP to
mailing lists as appropriate. Unfortunately, mailing lists do not have
the NNTP delete feature or the ability to move posts from one mailing
list to another by a moderator. So it would require that people on the
forums use more common sense than is commonplace in forums when posting.

Thanks

Michal
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Re: OT: Userfriendliness of mailing list,

Lew Wolfgang
In reply to this post by Axel Braun-2
On 06/19/2017 12:34 AM, Axel Braun wrote:
> Although Email - like Newsgroups - may sound old fashioned, they still have
> advantages over forums - low bandwidth requirements, the option to download
> mails and work offline (yes, I'm travelling every now and then), to apply
> filters....just to mention some.

For me the big difference is push vs pull.  Forums require effort on
my part to search for and "pull" information into my work context.
Email information is "pushed" to me from multiple accounts and
is available for easy processing and archiving with the help of
Thunderbird.  I literally couldn't do my user support work if I was
limited to forums.  That being said, I also use forums for various
kinds of off-line work.  It's nice to have choice!

Regards,
Lew

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Re: OT: Userfriendliness of mailing list,

Malcolm
On Mon 19 Jun 2017 07:35:43 AM CDT, Lew Wolfgang wrote:

>On 06/19/2017 12:34 AM, Axel Braun wrote:
>> Although Email - like Newsgroups - may sound old fashioned, they
>> still have advantages over forums - low bandwidth requirements, the
>> option to download mails and work offline (yes, I'm travelling every
>> now and then), to apply filters....just to mention some.  
>
>For me the big difference is push vs pull.  Forums require effort on
>my part to search for and "pull" information into my work context.
>Email information is "pushed" to me from multiple accounts and
>is available for easy processing and archiving with the help of
>Thunderbird.  I literally couldn't do my user support work if I was
>limited to forums.  That being said, I also use forums for various
>kinds of off-line work.  It's nice to have choice!
>
>Regards,
>Lew
>
Hi
I use claws-mail for the forums via nntp and don't use the openSUSE
mailing list instead subscribe to no-mail and use gmane instead. If a
group doesn't exist on gmane it's a simple process to ask for it to be
added....

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Re: OT: Userfriendliness of mailing list,

Andreas Schwab-2
On Jun 19 2017, Malcolm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> group doesn't exist on gmane it's a simple process to ask for it to be
> added....

Not any more, unfortunately.

Andreas.

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Re: OT: Userfriendliness of mailing list, was: Re: [opensuse-factory] Leap 42.3: Only GTK apps start, all others segfault at startup

Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink
In reply to this post by Michal Suchánek
Op maandag 19 juni 2017 15:55:10 CEST schreef Michal Suchánek:

> On Mon, 19 Jun 2017 15:26:22 +0200
>
> Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Op maandag 19 juni 2017 14:56:01 CEST schreef Michal Suchánek:
> > > On the other hand, forums are one huge useless inaccessible archive
> > > which works really hard to prevent anyone from accessing the data it
> > > contains. It is considered a feature that users cannot access some
> > > posts so you cannot export them in an usable way without breaking
> > > the usage paradigm that administrators can limit access to posts.
> > > And if you want to see a forum without access limitations there is
> > > at least one - it's called 4chan ;-)
> >
> > Sorry to say so: saying so about social media like Facebook, G+ is
> > OK, but this is not true for (at least) the openSUSE forums.
> >
> > site: forums.opensuse.org 'searchstring' in Google search
>
> I exclude the "site: forums.opensuse.org" and if it happens to give
> SUSE forum results or Ubuntu forums results that look useful that's
> fine with me.
>
> > search function of the forums works fine too.
>
> Not for me. I was not able to locate posts which the above method
> pointed out and turned out useful.
>
> For example
> https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/439173-prevent-an-update-from-bei
> ng-installed-(zypper-package-locks) talks about package locks but when I put
> "package locks" in the
> forum search field and press search I get no results. This is not
> surprising at all. All forums I have used so far have broken search
> feature.
>
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Michal
> >
> > I even dare to say that for a lot of people forums are more
> > friendlier. All the subforums, different languages, an openSUSE
> > version tagging sysotem, moderators that point out to new users how
> > to create decent posts, and, last but not least NNTP access for those
> > who don't want to use the web-interface.
>
> NNTP access is nice. However, to not split the community in forum users
> and mailing list users it would be helpful to bridge that NNTP to
> mailing lists as appropriate. Unfortunately, mailing lists do not have
> the NNTP delete feature or the ability to move posts from one mailing
> list to another by a moderator. So it would require that people on the
> forums use more common sense than is commonplace in forums when posting.
>
> Thanks
>
> Michal

Fair enough. In the end a matter of personal preference, use what you're most
comfortable with.
--
Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht

openSUSE Board Member
openSUSE Forums Team
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Re: OT: Userfriendliness of mailing list,

Malcolm
In reply to this post by Andreas Schwab-2
On Mon 19 Jun 2017 05:08:53 PM CDT, Andreas Schwab wrote:

>On Jun 19 2017, Malcolm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> group doesn't exist on gmane it's a simple process to ask for it to
>> be added....  
>
>Not any more, unfortunately.
>
>Andreas.
>
Hi
It was handed off to new maintainers and is alive and well....
http://home.gmane.org/

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openSUSE Leap 42.2 | GNOME 3.20.2 | 4.4.62-18.6-default
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Re: OT: Userfriendliness of mailing list,

Andreas Schwab-2
On Jun 19 2017, Malcolm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It was handed off to new maintainers and is alive and well....
> http://home.gmane.org/

As alive as a zombie.

Andreas.

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Re: gmane ?

Per Jessen
Andreas Schwab wrote:

> On Jun 19 2017, Malcolm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> It was handed off to new maintainers and is alive and well....
>> http://home.gmane.org/
>
> As alive as a zombie.

It does appear to be a little more alive than that - the news-server is
running, I just retrieved a list of some 31000 groups.

gmane.linux.suse.opensuse.announce seems to be alive and well, for
instance.


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Re: gmane ?

Andreas Schwab-2
On Jun 20 2017, Per Jessen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It does appear to be a little more alive than that - the news-server is
> running, I just retrieved a list of some 31000 groups.

The news server is still independently operated by Lars.

Andreas.

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Re: gmane ?

Per Jessen
Andreas Schwab wrote:

> On Jun 20 2017, Per Jessen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> It does appear to be a little more alive than that - the news-server
>> is running, I just retrieved a list of some 31000 groups.
>
> The news server is still independently operated by Lars.
>

Oh, I was not aware, I had the impression Lars had pulled out
altogether.  


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