[Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

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[Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

Carlos E. R.-3
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Hi,

At site <https://www.carm.es/web/pagina?IDCONTENIDO=1680&IDTIPO=240&RASTRO=c345$m3121,3317>,
which is an official health administration page (Spain), I found two doc
documents. One opens correctly, the other is terrible.

<https://www.carm.es/web/integra.servlets.Blob?ARCHIVO=Anexos%20A2%20y%20A3.doc&TABLA=ARCHIVOS&CAMPOCLAVE=IDARCHIVO&VALORCLAVE=7510&CAMPOIMAGEN=ARCHIVO&IDTIPO=60&RASTRO=c345$m3121,3317>

Saves as "7510-Anexos A2 y A3.doc".

LibreOffice in Leap does an horrible job.

Abiword does a bit better, but still unusable. It says the document
contains revision data which it is ignoring; I don't inkow if that has
something to do with the problems.

Caligra (in oS 13.1) does badly, too.

Even an online converter, .doc to .docx, does badly.

Even google docs can not open it to something readable. :-/

- --
Cheers,
        Carlos E. R.
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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

Martin Pluskal-2
On Thursday, October 22, 2015 04:31:02 AM Carlos E. R. wrote:

> Hi,
>
> At site
> <https://www.carm.es/web/pagina?IDCONTENIDO=1680&IDTIPO=240&RASTRO=c345$m31
> 21,3317>, which is an official health administration page (Spain), I found
> two doc documents. One opens correctly, the other is terrible.
>
> <https://www.carm.es/web/integra.servlets.Blob?ARCHIVO=Anexos%20A2%20y%20A3.
> doc&TABLA=ARCHIVOS&CAMPOCLAVE=IDARCHIVO&VALORCLAVE=7510&CAMPOIMAGEN=ARCHIVO&
> IDTIPO=60&RASTRO=c345$m3121,3317>
>
> Saves as "7510-Anexos A2 y A3.doc".
>
> LibreOffice in Leap does an horrible job.
>
> Abiword does a bit better, but still unusable. It says the document
> contains revision data which it is ignoring; I don't inkow if that has
> something to do with the problems.
>
> Caligra (in oS 13.1) does badly, too.
>
> Even an online converter, .doc to .docx, does badly.
>
> Even google docs can not open it to something readable. :-/
>
Carlos
        over last several days, you have managed to create huge amount of traffic
on this mailing list, with very low ratio of useful information to noise, and
even when somehow useful, most of your posts are misplaced. Bug reports belong
to bugzilla, opensuse-factory is serves as platform to discuss development not
to report petty issues with document rendering. As you are no newbie to
openSUSE community, I believe that you should know better.

In regard to this issue you reported, it is something that is most likely
upstream issue of libreoffice, so it should likely go to libreoffice bugzilla not
to this mailing list.

As you yourself observed, most tools have difficulties rendering said document
properly, so I doubt that issue is openSUSE specific, libreoffice specific, it
might as well be document violating specification (or just difficult to render).

Also I would appreciate if you would refrain from using statements as "does an
horrible job" - it is strongly disrespectful to developers/maintainers - why
don't you try fixing yourself instead of using such language? You are getting
results of someone elses work for free, and even if it might not be perfect,
it is rude to make such comments.

Regards

Martin Pluskal

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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

Carlos E. R.-3
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Hash: SHA1

On 2015-10-22 10:12, Martin Pluskal wrote:
> On Thursday, October 22, 2015 04:31:02 AM Carlos E. R. wrote:


> Carlos over last several days, you have managed to create huge
> amount of traffic on this mailing list, with very low ratio of
> useful information to noise, and even when somehow useful, most of
> your posts are misplaced. Bug reports belong to bugzilla,
> opensuse-factory is serves as platform to discuss development not
> to report petty issues with document rendering. As you are no
> newbie to openSUSE community, I believe that you should know
> better.

I strongly disagree.

opensuse-factory is no longer a developer mail list. It is a user mail
list, for those users using Tumbleweed, and those testing Leap. I'm
entitled to post here my doubts and requests for comments, when using
those distributions. If you are sure that this is a bug, then I will
forward to Bugzilla.

Other people have told here to post in Bugzilla issues that were
posted here, and then after a few posts it was demonstrated that it
was no bug.

Being this a user mail list, other users may have ideas of what to try
with that document.

> In regard to this issue you reported, it is something that is most
> likely upstream issue of libreoffice, so it should likely go to
> libreoffice bugzilla not to this mailing list.

That's an idea, thanks.


> Also I would appreciate if you would refrain from using statements
> as "does an horrible job" - it is strongly disrespectful to
> developers/maintainers - why don't you try fixing yourself instead
> of using such language? You are getting results of someone elses
> work for free, and even if it might not be perfect, it is rude to
> make such comments.

I'm sorry if you think that. I never thought it wold be understood
that way.

To me, a program is an object, not a person, and it can do a good job,
or a bad job. It is just a description of facts, not a judging on the
people that made the tool. I'm not saying that a person did an
horrible job. An tool did.


- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

Carlos E. R.-3
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On 2015-10-22 11:26, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> To me, a program is an object, not a person, and it can do a good
> job, or a bad job. It is just a description of facts, not a judging
> on the people that made the tool. I'm not saying that a person did
> an horrible job. An tool did.

Just to be clear: my irritation is with the people that created such a
document in a proprietary, non published, format. Not with the
wonderful people that created LibreOffice, OpenOffice, StarOffice...

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

skunze
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-3

Am Donnerstag, 22. Oktober 2015, 04:31:02 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

> Hi,

>

> At site

> <https://www.carm.es/web/pagina?IDCONTENIDO=1680&IDTIPO=240&RASTRO=c345$m31

> 21,3317>, which is an official health administration page (Spain), I found

> two doc documents. One opens correctly, the other is terrible.

>

> <https://www.carm.es/web/integra.servlets.Blob?ARCHIVO=Anexos%20A2%20y%20A3.

> doc&TABLA=ARCHIVOS&CAMPOCLAVE=IDARCHIVO&VALORCLAVE=7510&CAMPOIMAGEN=ARCHIVO&

> IDTIPO=60&RASTRO=c345$m3121,3317>

>

> Saves as "7510-Anexos A2 y A3.doc".

>

> LibreOffice in Leap does an horrible job.

>

> Abiword does a bit better, but still unusable. It says the document

> contains revision data which it is ignoring; I don't inkow if that has

> something to do with the problems.

>

> Caligra (in oS 13.1) does badly, too.

>

> Even an online converter, .doc to .docx, does badly.

>

> Even google docs can not open it to something readable. :-/

>

> --

> Cheers,

> Carlos E. R.

 

Hi Carlos,

 

definitely upstream Libreoffice is the correct adress here.

As far as I know they collect problematic documents for automated testing .

 

--

Stefan Kunze

 

SUSE Dispatch Engineer

________________________________________________________________

 

SUSE Linux GmbH,

GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)

Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nürnberg

 

 

 

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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

Werner Flamme
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-3
Carlos E. R. [22.10.2015 11:34]:

> On 2015-10-22 11:26, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> To me, a program is an object, not a person, and it can do a good
>> job, or a bad job. It is just a description of facts, not a
>> judging on the people that made the tool. I'm not saying that a
>> person did an horrible job. An tool did.
>
> Just to be clear: my irritation is with the people that created such
> a document in a proprietary, non published, format. Not with the
> wonderful people that created LibreOffice, OpenOffice, StarOffice...
>
So why do you post here? Do you think that the people responsible for
the publication of this document in an unusable format are reading here?
Write to the webmaster or use the contact form on the website (if
available).

--



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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

Simon Heimbach
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-3
Am 22.10.2015 04:31, schrieb Carlos E. R.:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> At site
> <https://www.carm.es/web/pagina?IDCONTENIDO=1680&IDTIPO=240&RASTRO=c345$m3121,3317>,
> which is an official health administration page (Spain), I found two
> doc documents. One opens correctly, the other is terrible.
>
> <https://www.carm.es/web/integra.servlets.Blob?ARCHIVO=Anexos%20A2%20y%20A3.doc&TABLA=ARCHIVOS&CAMPOCLAVE=IDARCHIVO&VALORCLAVE=7510&CAMPOIMAGEN=ARCHIVO&IDTIPO=60&RASTRO=c345$m3121,3317>
>
> Saves as "7510-Anexos A2 y A3.doc".
>
> LibreOffice in Leap does an horrible job.
>
> Abiword does a bit better, but still unusable. It says the document
> contains revision data which it is ignoring; I don't inkow if that has
> something to do with the problems.
>
> Caligra (in oS 13.1) does badly, too.
>
> Even an online converter, .doc to .docx, does badly.
>
> Even google docs can not open it to something readable. :-/
>
> - -- Cheers,
>        Carlos E. R.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEUEARECAAYFAlYoSmcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9W/SQCVEseWCp/nwS8x7BslJWQ1gdB7
> kACdHAJ6bLlVxoXHsbkMgpcqNSmszaE=
> =osiN
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Hi Carlos,

I tried to open it with TextMaker (http://www.freeoffice.com/en/). It's
not open-source software, but does often - and also in this case - a
pretty good job for conversion to ODT.

Greetings, Simon

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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

terjejh
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-3


Den 22. okt. 2015 04:31, skrev Carlos E. R.:

>
> LibreOffice in Leap does an horrible job.
>
> Abiword does a bit better, but still unusable. It says the document
> contains revision data which it is ignoring; I don't inkow if that has
> something to do with the problems.
>
> Caligra (in oS 13.1) does badly, too.
>
> Even an online converter, .doc to .docx, does badly.
>
> Even google docs can not open it to something readable. :-/
>

Looks like WPS Office for Linux might render docs better?
http://wps-community.org/download.html

-----------
Terje J. H
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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

Andrew Wafaa
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-3
On 22 October 2015 at 10:34, Carlos E. R. <[hidden email]> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 2015-10-22 11:26, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> To me, a program is an object, not a person, and it can do a good
>> job, or a bad job. It is just a description of facts, not a judging
>> on the people that made the tool. I'm not saying that a person did
>> an horrible job. An tool did.
>
> Just to be clear: my irritation is with the people that created such a
> document in a proprietary, non published, format. Not with the
> wonderful people that created LibreOffice, OpenOffice, StarOffice...
>

Carlos,

I'm writing on behalf of the openSUSE Board, who have responsibility
for resolving conflicts and to facilitate healthy communication within
the Project

Having monitored your behaviour on these Mailinglists and Forums we
are increasingly concerned of the following trends in your behaviour:

* Argumentative tone and manner, especially with active contributors
* Repeated Negative disparagement of other contributions and contributors
* High volume of posts, very often on topics which you clearly are not
heavily involved or informed in (ie. Generating lots of 'noise' on
these lists for little content)
* Threats/Claims you intend to stop contributing in response to other
contributions and the general direction of the project.

We feel this behaviour is inconsistent with the Guiding principles of
the project. It does not follow the concepts of collaboration,
quality, and respect we want to see, and indeed we are concerned that
the repeated and very high volume nature of your behaviour is actively
discouraging and diminishing the enthusiasm and activity of our
contributors

We recognise you were recently banned from the openSUSE Forums for
similar issues, and have noticed how your activity has dramatically
increased on the mailinglist since that action was taken by our Forum
team.

Therefore, the Board is taking this exceptional action of giving you
this final, formal, warning

Please change your tone, manner, and dramatically reduce the 'noise'
you generate on these lists, or we will be forced to ban you from all
openSUSE lists and forums.

We do not take such actions lightly, and would normally do our best to
avoid intervening in this issue in this manner, but after seeing
plenty of attempts from several contributors to address your behaviour
directly to you, with no effect, we feel we have no alternative.

Regards,

The openSUSE Board
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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

Carlos E. R.-3
In reply to this post by Werner Flamme
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Hash: SHA256

On 2015-10-22 12:36, Werner Flamme wrote:
> Carlos E. R. [22.10.2015 11:34]:
>> On 2015-10-22 11:26, Carlos E. R. wrote:

>> Just to be clear: my irritation is with the people that created
>> such a document in a proprietary, non published, format. Not with
>> the wonderful people that created LibreOffice, OpenOffice,
>> StarOffice...
>>
>
> So why do you post here? Do you think that the people responsible
> for the publication of this document in an unusable format are
> reading here? Write to the webmaster or use the contact form on the
> website (if available).

For comments. Maybe someone here knows a trick. And maybe there is
someone here that can take that doc and adapt the translator, in the
years to come :-)

There was a request time ago for samples that failed.

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

  (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith))
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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

Carlos E. R.-3
In reply to this post by Andrew Wafaa
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 2015-10-22 15:11, Andrew Wafaa wrote:
> On 22 October 2015 at 10:34, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:


> * Argumentative tone and manner, especially with active
> contributors * Repeated Negative disparagement of other
> contributions and contributors * High volume of posts, very often
> on topics which you clearly are not heavily involved or informed in
> (ie. Generating lots of 'noise' on these lists for little content)
> * Threats/Claims you intend to stop contributing in response to
> other contributions and the general direction of the project.

I don't agree with any of that. :-/

I feel that you are menacing me with censorship, which is against the
principles of the project. I feel that you are showing high disrespect
to me.

If you don't like what other people say, you force them to shut down.
Nice...

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

  (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith))
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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by skunze
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 2015-10-22 11:45, Stefan Kunze wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 22. Oktober 2015, 04:31:02 schrieb Carlos E. R.:


> definitely upstream Libreoffice is the correct adress here.
>
> As far as I know they collect problematic documents for automated
> testing .

Thank you! I will try that.

See? This is helpful, good results will come out from this thread. :-)

Someone has a link for this submission?

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

  (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith))
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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

ianseeks-2
In reply to this post by Andrew Wafaa
On Thursday 22 Oct 2015 14:11:37 Andrew Wafaa wrote:

> On 22 October 2015 at 10:34, Carlos E. R. <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > On 2015-10-22 11:26, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> >> To me, a program is an object, not a person, and it can do a good
> >> job, or a bad job. It is just a description of facts, not a judging
> >> on the people that made the tool. I'm not saying that a person did
> >> an horrible job. An tool did.
> >
> > Just to be clear: my irritation is with the people that created such a
> > document in a proprietary, non published, format. Not with the
> > wonderful people that created LibreOffice, OpenOffice, StarOffice...
>
> Carlos,
>
> I'm writing on behalf of the openSUSE Board, who have responsibility
> for resolving conflicts and to facilitate healthy communication within
> the Project
>
> Having monitored your behaviour on these Mailinglists and Forums we
> are increasingly concerned of the following trends in your behaviour:
>
> * Argumentative tone and manner, especially with active contributors
> * Repeated Negative disparagement of other contributions and contributors
> * High volume of posts, very often on topics which you clearly are not
> heavily involved or informed in (ie. Generating lots of 'noise' on
> these lists for little content)
> * Threats/Claims you intend to stop contributing in response to other
> contributions and the general direction of the project.
>
> We feel this behaviour is inconsistent with the Guiding principles of
> the project. It does not follow the concepts of collaboration,
> quality, and respect we want to see, and indeed we are concerned that
> the repeated and very high volume nature of your behaviour is actively
> discouraging and diminishing the enthusiasm and activity of our
> contributors
>
> We recognise you were recently banned from the openSUSE Forums for
> similar issues, and have noticed how your activity has dramatically
> increased on the mailinglist since that action was taken by our Forum
> team.
>
> Therefore, the Board is taking this exceptional action of giving you
> this final, formal, warning
>
> Please change your tone, manner, and dramatically reduce the 'noise'
> you generate on these lists, or we will be forced to ban you from all
> openSUSE lists and forums.
>
> We do not take such actions lightly, and would normally do our best to
> avoid intervening in this issue in this manner, but after seeing
> plenty of attempts from several contributors to address your behaviour
> directly to you, with no effect, we feel we have no alternative.
>
> Regards,
>
> The openSUSE Board

I would have thought that an email like this should have not been posted to
the list and only to the person to whom its targeted.
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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

terjejh
In reply to this post by Andrew Wafaa
On 23 October 2015 at 08:58,  ianseeks wrote:

> I would have thought that an email like this should have not been
> posted to
> the list and only to the person to whom its targeted.
> --

I agree, this is words of wisdom.

------------
Terje J. H
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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

Johannes Meixner
In reply to this post by ianseeks-2

Hello,

On Oct 23 08:58 ianseeks wrote (excerpt):
> On Thursday 22 Oct 2015 14:11:37 Andrew Wafaa wrote:
>> Carlos,
>>
>> I'm writing on behalf of the openSUSE Board,
...
> I would have thought that an email like this should have
> not been posted to the list and only to the person
> to whom its targeted.

I also had ambiguous feelings when reading those mail
that has private content from my personal point of view
but also from my personal point of view it seems to be
meant as some kind of warning to all others?

I even fear I should not have written this reply but
better kept silent to avoid possible further issues?


Kind Regards
Johannes Meixner
--
SUSE LINUX GmbH - GF: Felix Imendoerffer, Jane Smithard,
Graham Norton - HRB 21284 (AG Nuernberg)

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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

Knurpht-openSUSE
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-3
Op donderdag 22 oktober 2015 20:43:35 schreef Carlos E. R.:
> On 2015-10-22 15:11, Andrew Wafaa wrote:
> > On 22 October 2015 at 10:34, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:
> >
> >
> If you don't like what other people say, you force them to shut down.
> Nice...
>

Stop this, Carlos. This is a direct personal attack and hence completely
unacceptable.

Nobody is telling you to shut up just like that, and you know this. It's
exactly what the ban on the forums was about. And the previous ones.

--
Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht

Official openSUSE Member
openSUSE Forums Team
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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

Andrew Wafaa
In reply to this post by Johannes Meixner
On 23 October 2015 at 10:20, Johannes Meixner <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> On Oct 23 08:58 ianseeks wrote (excerpt):
>>
>> On Thursday 22 Oct 2015 14:11:37 Andrew Wafaa wrote:
>>>
>>> Carlos,
>>>
>>> I'm writing on behalf of the openSUSE Board,
>
> ...
>>
>> I would have thought that an email like this should have
>> not been posted to the list and only to the person
>> to whom its targeted.
>
>
> I also had ambiguous feelings when reading those mail
> that has private content from my personal point of view
> but also from my personal point of view it seems to be
> meant as some kind of warning to all others?
>

Several members of the community including some of my fellow Board
members, have tried to reason with Carlos directly off the lists but
unfortunately to no avail. Which is why the Board became involved. We
feel that Carlos has been given enough warnings and plenty of chances
to listen and act appropriately to the concerns of those in our
community.

As he has clearly shown, he has chosen not to heed the requests which
is why we (the Board) have taken the decision to be public in this
final request. We understand and appreciate that Carlos does no need
to do what we say, after all we're not his parents. However we are
tasked by our community to ensure that openSUSE is a productive,
enjoyable and fun community to be a part off. As such, his behaviour
is not compatible with the openSUSE community. Being disrespectful and
rude to others is not on.

> I even fear I should not have written this reply but
> better kept silent to avoid possible further issues?
>

Why would you be fearful? As I had explained in the email, we have
given Carlos plenty of chances and he chose to ignore us. That is
indeed his prerogative, the consequences are his own making. We will
not ignore the requests from many of our community to put an end to
his actions.


Regards,
Andy

>
> Kind Regards
> Johannes Meixner
> --
> SUSE LINUX GmbH - GF: Felix Imendoerffer, Jane Smithard,
> Graham Norton - HRB 21284 (AG Nuernberg)
>
>
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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

ianseeks-2
In reply to this post by Johannes Meixner
On Friday 23 Oct 2015 11:20:27 Johannes Meixner wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On Oct 23 08:58 ianseeks wrote (excerpt):
> > On Thursday 22 Oct 2015 14:11:37 Andrew Wafaa wrote:
> >> Carlos,
> >>
> >> I'm writing on behalf of the openSUSE Board,
>
> ...
>
> > I would have thought that an email like this should have
> > not been posted to the list and only to the person
> > to whom its targeted.
>
> I also had ambiguous feelings when reading those mail
> that has private content from my personal point of view
> but also from my personal point of view it seems to be
> meant as some kind of warning to all others?

That could possibly be the reason. I wonder if there is something in the Code
of Conduct relating to this kind of situation and if not, should there be?

> I even fear I should not have written this reply but
> better kept silent to avoid possible further issues?
>
>
> Kind Regards
> Johannes Meixner

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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

Richard Brown
On 23 October 2015 at 14:13, ianseeks <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I also had ambiguous feelings when reading those mail
>> that has private content from my personal point of view
>> but also from my personal point of view it seems to be
>> meant as some kind of warning to all others?
>
> That could possibly be the reason. I wonder if there is something in the Code
> of Conduct relating to this kind of situation and if not, should there be?
>

It wasn't intended as a warning to others.

There's two factors which crossed the Boards collective mind when
deciding how to make this post

One repeated bit of feedback the Board gets is that we do too much in
private, and therefore no one knows the work the Board is doing.
Therefore, as a rule of thumb we are trying our best to do everything
'public by default'.

That said, obviously, an issue like this is precisely the kind that we
would consider to handle privately, but that leads to the second point
- during one of the issues which led to this situation (the situation
with Translations) I had a discussion with Carlos in private, trying
to persuade him to take a more productive and proactive role in
resolving the issues he's concerned about there.

During the course of a subsequent public discussion, details of that
private discussion were leaked out a bit at a time, often with pretty
curious deviations in interpretation from how the other parties
remembered it.
In the end, a much broader disclosure of the content of the discussion
was required to clear up what really went on.

And so, we (the Board) didn't want a repetition of that situation
here. Everyone can see what we're saying, how we're saying it, and as
this email proves, we're prepared to discuss and clarify as required.

I don't think this is a bad way for the Board to conduct itself - it's
our job to deal with issues like these with could potentially 'slip
between the cracks' of formal rules. Clear cut formal rulebreaking is
so much easier to deal with..

If anyone is concerned, let me put this very clearly

The Board will never deal with an issue in this manner without
ensuring that the parties involved have had several warnings and
opportunities to change the situation in both public and private.
Each action of this type is decided by the Board is considered on a
case-by-case basis and our actions reflect what we feel is in the best
interest of the Community at that time.
It would be unfair to extrapolate or assume that the course of action
that was chosen in this case would be readily applied to even similar
situations.
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Re: [Leap 42.1] Found a .doc document that LilbreOffice fails to render correctly. From the administration.

Richard Brown
On 23 October 2015 at 14:41, Richard Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> It wasn't intended as a warning to others.
>
> There's two factors which crossed the Boards collective mind when
> deciding how to make this post
>
> One repeated bit of feedback the Board gets is that we do too much in
> private, and therefore no one knows the work the Board is doing.
> Therefore, as a rule of thumb we are trying our best to do everything
> 'public by default'.
>
> That said, obviously, an issue like this is precisely the kind that we
> would consider to handle privately, but that leads to the second point
> - during one of the issues which led to this situation (the situation
> with Translations) I had a discussion with Carlos in private, trying
> to persuade him to take a more productive and proactive role in
> resolving the issues he's concerned about there.
>
> During the course of a subsequent public discussion, details of that
> private discussion were leaked out a bit at a time, often with pretty
> curious deviations in interpretation from how the other parties
> remembered it.
> In the end, a much broader disclosure of the content of the discussion
> was required to clear up what really went on.
>
> And so, we (the Board) didn't want a repetition of that situation
> here. Everyone can see what we're saying, how we're saying it, and as
> this email proves, we're prepared to discuss and clarify as required.
>
> I don't think this is a bad way for the Board to conduct itself - it's
> our job to deal with issues like these with could potentially 'slip
> between the cracks' of formal rules. Clear cut formal rulebreaking is
> so much easier to deal with..
>
> If anyone is concerned, let me put this very clearly
>
> The Board will never deal with an issue in this manner without
> ensuring that the parties involved have had several warnings and
> opportunities to change the situation in both public and private.
> Each action of this type is decided by the Board is considered on a
> case-by-case basis and our actions reflect what we feel is in the best
> interest of the Community at that time.
> It would be unfair to extrapolate or assume that the course of action
> that was chosen in this case would be readily applied to even similar
> situations.

Accidentally sent before finishing my final sentence..

So please, nobody panic, this doesn't represent a shift in the
responsibility or activities of the Board or the expected standards of
behaviour on this list, we're just trying to deal with this particular
situation in the way which we hope will be the most effective,
considering all the information and experience we have available to us

Regards,

Rich
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