KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

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KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

borepstein
Hello people,

Just started using KDE4 and for some reason I can't figure out some
rather basic things. For instance, how do I add application icons to
my control panel or desktop? It is funny that after years of KDE
experience I can't do that...

Anyways, I am sure it is easy and I just missed the obvious. Any help
much appreciated.

Boris.
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Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

Michal Vyskocil-2
On Tuesday 27 of January 2009 17:16:47 Boris Epstein wrote:
> Hello people,
>
> Just started using KDE4 and for some reason I can't figure out some
> rather basic things. For instance, how do I add application icons to
> my control panel or desktop? It is funny that after years of KDE
> experience I can't do that...

Kickoff - right click on the icon and select Add to desktop/panel

Regards
Michal Vyskocil

>
> Anyways, I am sure it is easy and I just missed the obvious. Any help
> much appreciated.
>
> Boris.

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Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

borepstein
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Michal Vyskocil <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Tuesday 27 of January 2009 17:16:47 Boris Epstein wrote:
> > Hello people,
> >
> > Just started using KDE4 and for some reason I can't figure out some
> > rather basic things. For instance, how do I add application icons to
> > my control panel or desktop? It is funny that after years of KDE
> > experience I can't do that...
>
> Kickoff - right click on the icon and select Add to desktop/panel
>
> Regards
> Michal Vyskocil
>
> >
> > Anyways, I am sure it is easy and I just missed the obvious. Any help
> > much appreciated.
> >
> > Boris.
>
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Thanks, Michal, this is exactly it, I just figured it out five minutes
before reading your reply:)

It was the same under KDE 3.5 only there it worked under the "Classic
Style" menu as well.

Boris.
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Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

borepstein
In reply to this post by borepstein
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Boris Epstein <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello people,
>
> Just started using KDE4 and for some reason I can't figure out some
> rather basic things. For instance, how do I add application icons to
> my control panel or desktop? It is funny that after years of KDE
> experience I can't do that...
>
> Anyways, I am sure it is easy and I just missed the obvious. Any help
> much appreciated.
>
> Boris.
>

Next question - how do I move the icon once I have added it to the
panel if I would rather it be somewhere else on the panel?

Thanks again.

Boris.
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Re: Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

Patrick Shanahan-2
* Boris Epstein <[hidden email]> [01-27-09 12:50]:
>
> Next question - how do I move the icon once I have added it to the
> panel if I would rather it be somewhere else on the panel?
>

Don't have it yet, but from reading the traffic here, <right-click> on
the panel and "unlock" it.
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Re: Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

borepstein
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Patrick Shanahan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> * Boris Epstein <[hidden email]> [01-27-09 12:50]:
>>
>> Next question - how do I move the icon once I have added it to the
>> panel if I would rather it be somewhere else on the panel?
>>
>
> Don't have it yet, but from reading the traffic here, <right-click> on
> the panel and "unlock" it.
> --
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> http://wahoo.no-ip.org     Photo Album:  http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2
> Registered Linux User #207535                    @ http://counter.li.org
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>
>

Thanks, Patrick, but this does not apply as my panel is not even
locked to begin with.

Boris.
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Re: Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

James Wright-5
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Boris Epstein <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Patrick Shanahan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> * Boris Epstein <[hidden email]> [01-27-09 12:50]:
>>>
>>> Next question - how do I move the icon once I have added it to the
>>> panel if I would rather it be somewhere else on the panel?

Click on that mutli-colored (sorry, not sure what it is called yet)
thingie in the corner of the task panel.  You will get buttons like
'Screen Edge','Height', 'Lock Widgets', etc.  When this menu is
available you can move stuff around in the panel.

- James W.
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Re: Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

borepstein
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 3:52 PM, james Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Boris Epstein <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Patrick Shanahan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> * Boris Epstein <[hidden email]> [01-27-09 12:50]:
>>>>
>>>> Next question - how do I move the icon once I have added it to the
>>>> panel if I would rather it be somewhere else on the panel?
>
> Click on that mutli-colored (sorry, not sure what it is called yet)
> thingie in the corner of the task panel.  You will get buttons like
> 'Screen Edge','Height', 'Lock Widgets', etc.  When this menu is
> available you can move stuff around in the panel.
>
> - James W.
> --
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>
>

James, that worked!

Thank you.

Boris.
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Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

Sven Burmeister
In reply to this post by borepstein
Am Dienstag, 27. Januar 2009 17:16:47 schrieb Boris Epstein:
> Anyways, I am sure it is easy and I just missed the obvious. Any help
> much appreciated.

Although you got your answsers already, http://help.opensuse.org/kde4/ might
be a good start for basic help, e.g. regarding the icons on desktop, for those
that wonder how to get them as they were in KDE3.

Sven
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Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

M Harris-2
In reply to this post by borepstein
On Tuesday 27 January 2009 10:16, Boris Epstein wrote:
> Anyways, I am sure it is easy and I just missed the obvious. Any help
> much appreciated.
        The problem (white elephant in the middle of the list) that everyone is
ignoring here is that the KDE folks don't understand regression testing, nor
do they understand any semblance of backward compatibility responsibility.

        Its fine to want to build a new KDE (say complete rewrite) but the new
version needs to provide regression and compatibility. Otherwise, the
userbase is going to be VERY unhappy.







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Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

Basil Chupin-2
M Harris wrote:

> On Tuesday 27 January 2009 10:16, Boris Epstein wrote:
>  
>> Anyways, I am sure it is easy and I just missed the obvious. Any help
>> much appreciated.
>>    
> The problem (white elephant in the middle of the list) that everyone is
> ignoring here is that the KDE folks don't understand regression testing, nor
> do they understand any semblance of backward compatibility responsibility.
>
> Its fine to want to build a new KDE (say complete rewrite) but the new
> version needs to provide regression and compatibility. Otherwise, the
> userbase is going to be VERY unhappy.

I really do not think that "regression" is the word you want to use in a
response to "a dumb beginner's question".

Ciao.

--
"I do not instruct the uninterested; I do not help those who fail to try. If I mention one corner of a subject and the pupil does not deduce therefrom the other three, I drop him."
                                              Confucius


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Regression vs Changed Funtionality (Was Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question)

Rodney Baker-2
In reply to this post by M Harris-2
On Wednesday 28 January 2009 18:21:59 M Harris wrote:
> On Tuesday 27 January 2009 10:16, Boris Epstein wrote:
> > Anyways, I am sure it is easy and I just missed the obvious. Any help
> > much appreciated.
>
> The problem (white elephant in the middle of the list) that everyone is
> ignoring here is that the KDE folks don't understand regression testing,

A change in functionality that is *by design* is *not* a regression. A
regression is when something that previously worked is now *unintentionally*
broken due to an update or change that had an adverse affect (i.e. introduced
a new bug), either directly or indirectly.

In the case of functionality changes, the test suite to test that
functionality also necessarily changes. This is not part of regression
testing. Regression testing is the continual re-running of previously passed
tests to ensure that they continue to pass with each update or group of
updates. Yes, I have had experience in software testing (both manual and
automated) in a professional capacity so I have some idea of what I'm talking
about here.

> nor do they understand any semblance of backward compatibility
> responsibility.

That is a different issue. It is the designers choice whether backwards
compatibility is provided or not. In the case of a complete rewrite, sometimes
backwards compatibility has to be sacrificed in order to provide new and/or
improved functionality. Of course, the definition of "improved" is somewhat
subjective and is a debate that I will not enter into here.

>
> Its fine to want to build a new KDE (say complete rewrite) but the new
> version needs to provide regression and compatibility. Otherwise, the
> userbase is going to be VERY unhappy.

And as has been done to death here on many a previous thread,it is the
developers' prerogative to design and write the new version as he/she/they see
fit;  it is the user's choice whether or not to embrace the new version in
preference to the old.

Perhaps the biggest mistake was to call the new version KDE4 - maybe they
should have been more aggressive with the "new" thing and called it KDE-NG
(for Next Generation) to make it clear that it really is a new thing and not
simply an incremental upgrade from the previous version. Still, that's another
debate that is inappropriate here.

Regards,
Rodney.

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===================================================



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Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

Bugzilla from pandarsson@yahoo.com
In reply to this post by M Harris-2
On Wednesday 28 January 2009 1:51:59 am M Harris wrote:

> On Tuesday 27 January 2009 10:16, Boris Epstein wrote:
> > Anyways, I am sure it is easy and I just missed the obvious. Any help
> > much appreciated.
>
> The problem (white elephant in the middle of the list) that everyone is
> ignoring here is that the KDE folks don't understand regression testing,
> nor do they understand any semblance of backward compatibility
> responsibility.
>
> Its fine to want to build a new KDE (say complete rewrite) but the new
> version needs to provide regression and compatibility. Otherwise, the
> userbase is going to be VERY unhappy.

I thought guys like you were going to quit using KDE when they went from
version 1 to version 2.  And then the switch from version 2 to version 3 got
rid of the last of you.  Or are you just late in jumping on the bandwagon?
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Re: Regression vs Changed Funtionality (Was Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question)

M Harris-2
In reply to this post by Rodney Baker-2
On Wednesday 28 January 2009 05:18, Rodney Baker wrote:
> Perhaps the biggest mistake was to call the new version KDE4 - maybe they
> should have been more aggressive with the "new" thing and called it KDE-NG
> (for Next Generation) to make it clear that it really is a new thing and
> not simply an incremental upgrade from the previous version.
        I agree.




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Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

Roger Oberholtzer
In reply to this post by Michal Vyskocil-2
On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 18:38 +0100, Michal Vyskocil wrote:
> On Tuesday 27 of January 2009 17:16:47 Boris Epstein wrote:
> > Hello people,
> >
> > Just started using KDE4 and for some reason I can't figure out some
> > rather basic things. For instance, how do I add application icons to
> > my control panel or desktop? It is funny that after years of KDE
> > experience I can't do that...
>
> Kickoff - right click on the icon and select Add to desktop/panel

What is kickoff? This from a seasoned KDE 3.5 user

--
Roger Oberholtzer

OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST

Ramböll Sverige AB
Krukmakargatan 21
P.O. Box 17009
SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden

Office: Int +46 8-615 60 20
Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696

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"On two occasions I have been asked (by members of Parliament!),
'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures,
will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend
the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
  - Charles Babbage 1791-1871)
    English computer pioneer, philosopher

And remember:

It is RSofT and there is always something under construction.
It is like talking about a large city with all construction finished.
Not impossible, but very unlikely.

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Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

Sven Burmeister
Am Freitag, 30. Januar 2009 08:03:28 schrieb Roger Oberholtzer:
> What is kickoff? This from a seasoned KDE 3.5 user

The menu that opens if you click on the bottom-left icon on the panel (default
settings). This was already part of KDE3 in openSUSE 10.3 and 11.0, if people
did not reset the menu to the old style.

Sven
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Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

Roger Oberholtzer
On Fri, 2009-01-30 at 09:02 +0100, Sven Burmeister wrote:
> Am Freitag, 30. Januar 2009 08:03:28 schrieb Roger Oberholtzer:
> > What is kickoff? This from a seasoned KDE 3.5 user
>
> The menu that opens if you click on the bottom-left icon on the panel (default
> settings). This was already part of KDE3 in openSUSE 10.3 and 11.0, if people
> did not reset the menu to the old style.

Ahh, I see, I have reset it to the old menu. So of course I cannot use
the right-click to add apps to my panel. That is, until I finish this
e-mail and take corrective actions.

This menu, BTW, it not called the kickoff in the menu where you can add
widgets to the panel. It is called the "Application Launcher Menu".
Granted kickoff is shorter. But it is not known as that on the desktop.
Thus my confusion.

Anyway, now I am happy.


--
Roger Oberholtzer

OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST

Ramböll Sverige AB
Krukmakargatan 21
P.O. Box 17009
SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden

Office: Int +46 8-615 60 20
Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696

--

"On two occasions I have been asked (by members of Parliament!),
'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures,
will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend
the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
  - Charles Babbage 1791-1871)
    English computer pioneer, philosopher

And remember:

It is RSofT and there is always something under construction.
It is like talking about a large city with all construction finished.
Not impossible, but very unlikely.

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Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

Larry Stotler
In reply to this post by Bugzilla from pandarsson@yahoo.com
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Constantinos Maltezos
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I thought guys like you were going to quit using KDE when they went from
> version 1 to version 2.  And then the switch from version 2 to version 3 got
> rid of the last of you.  Or are you just late in jumping on the bandwagon?

As someone who was there for those changeovers, I can say that the
current switchover is nowhere near as easy as those others.

KDE4 introduced so many different ways to do things that it's become a
real PITA for those os use who customized our current installs to work
like we expect(turn on panel hide buttons, use the older KMenu, etc)
and are used to them working.  I read a blog about how one guy thought
KDE4 was so great because it kept him from "cluttering" his desktop up
with files.  My reply, which was never responded to, was that IF I put
a file on my desktop, then it's there for a reason.

I further pointed out how KDE4 has "forgotten" our friends with
disabilites.  Some of them can't even use KDE4 right now, so dropping
support for KDE3 when KDE4 isn't ready for them is going to be a big
problem.  Hopefully the KDE 4.3 that it looks like 11.2 will have will
fix a lot of those issues.  Personally, I just want to see
KPersonalizer and a way to make it work like KDE3.  I have yet to find
any use for ANY of the new "enhancements".
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Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

Rajko M.
On Friday 30 January 2009 09:26:07 am Larry Stotler wrote:

> I further pointed out how KDE4 has "forgotten" our friends with
> disabilites.  Some of them can't even use KDE4 right now, so dropping
> support for KDE3 when KDE4 isn't ready for them is going to be a big
> problem.  

Maybe you want to try some of desktop effects that can help people with weak
vision, like zoom in and magnifier.

> Hopefully the KDE 4.3 that it looks like 11.2 will have will
> fix a lot of those issues.  Personally, I just want to see
> KPersonalizer and a way to make it work like KDE3.  I have yet to find
> any use for ANY of the new "enhancements".

Some new stuff is just old one with a new name and somewhat enhanced
abilities.

For instance Activities.
It is like multiple desktops, but each is world for itself. It can  contain
classic multiple desktops. In 4.2 is added widget that you can put in panel
that is common for all activities, and switch between activities fast as you
would with normal desktop switcher between desktops. With Folder view you can
open work folder for specific activity and have it always available as a part
of the desktop. When you run out of space in one panel add another one on
side of wide screen that is usually unused, or if you want to have widgets
isolated to single activity just sort them on the side of the screen.

For instance there is now widget that you can use to post text or images in
pastebin.ca or imagebin.ca by simply dragging them and dropping on drop
target, ie. widget. It is somewhat easier then open browser, locate address
in bookmarks and then drop text.

People that are looking how to restore KDE3 in every detail waste their time.
Plasma is very similar to KDE3 desktop if someone wants to be eccentric and
drop bunch of new options, but on the other hand some people even today stick
to command line for all purposes, not only where is easier to use it.

Linux is, first of all, fun and everyone is free to do whatever makes him
happy.

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Re: Re: KDE4 - a dumb beginner's question

dotancohen
In reply to this post by James Wright-5
> Click on that mutli-colored (sorry, not sure what it is called yet)
> thingie in the corner of the task panel.

That's the Cashew.

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