KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Luiz Fernando Ranghetti-2
Em sex, 29 de mar de 2019 às 11:55, Wolfgang Bauer <[hidden email]> escreveu:
>
> Am Freitag, 29. März 2019, 10:56:44 schrieb Vojtěch Zeisek:
> > As Amarok seems to be still the default for KDE (Is it?), what
> > will be the next default? Elisa? Yarock? ...?
>

For those using Amarok, have you tryed Clementine? Its inspired on
Amarok 1.4 (from kde3) and mantained till today

Regards,

Luiz
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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Luca Beltrame
In data venerdì 29 marzo 2019 16:14:18 CET, Luiz Fernando Ranghetti ha
scritto:

> For those using Amarok, have you tryed Clementine? Its inspired on
> Amarok 1.4 (from kde3) and mantained till today

Clementine still hasn't released their Qt5 version, that still lives in a
branch. So it's not an acceptable replacement, since the last released version
(from years ago) is still Qt4 based.

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Wolfgang Bauer
In reply to this post by Anton Aylward-2
Am Freitag, 29. März 2019, 10:37:25 schrieb Anton Aylward:

> > But Amarok is a huge project, and too few people are actively working on
> > it
> > (as usual...).
>
> Maybe that tells us something.
> Why are so few people working on it?
> Is it not just that it is huge but that it is complicated and obscure and
> not easy to comprehend and become familiar enough to work on?  I haven't
> looked at the source of Amarok but I have for a few other projects and it
> made me wonder about the mind of the creator.  I was always taught to
> design and program with maintainability in mind.

I don't know the source code in details either, nor do I have insight into the
project.
But I don't think this is actually the case here.

Rather that parts of it had to be rewritten basically from scratch.
(you probably could argue now that that's because of bad decisions in the
past, but that won't change anything about the current state either, and I
don't think that was actually forseeable)

Also, some (most?) old developers stopped working on it, due to lack of time
e.g.

Remember, this is about an open source project where people are working on it
in their spare time, without getting paid.

That of course also means that everybody who wants to can easily join in and
help/contribute though.

Not really the topic of this mailinglist though, Amarok is not developed by
openSUSE (nor is any other software that's going to be dropped).

> > The main technical difficulties (AFAIK) were porting the context view
> > (which used Plasma, and got rewritten from scratch using QtQuick/QML
> > directly), and the scripting engine (which used QtScript that is still
> > available but deprecated in Qt5).
>
> As in "Depreciated" meaning "Its going away in the next revision", perhaps

Indeed.
Though it's uncertain in which version exactly.
They (Qt) might keep it till Qt6, or they might drop it in some 5.x.0 update
already.

> Or perhaps a completely new *design* created that just happens to have the
> same name ...  I've seen that happen in the more commercial word for a
> variety of products.

That would also require people to spend (a lot of) time on it though.
And I don't see a point for that now, as it largely has been ported already.

It already happened though, when Amarok was ported to KDE4.
2.x was rather a new/different application than a straight port.
That made quite a few people unhappy, and resulted in a fork called Clementine
(that originally was based on Amarok 1.x but ported to Qt4, they didn't
release a Qt5 version yet either though, as mentioned in another mail)

Kind Regards,
Wolfgang

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Carlos E. R.-2
On 29/03/2019 17.56, Wolfgang Bauer wrote:

> Am Freitag, 29. März 2019, 10:37:25 schrieb Anton Aylward:
>>> But Amarok is a huge project, and too few people are actively working on
>>> it
>>> (as usual...).
>>
>> Maybe that tells us something.
>> Why are so few people working on it?
>> Is it not just that it is huge but that it is complicated and obscure and
>> not easy to comprehend and become familiar enough to work on?  I haven't
>> looked at the source of Amarok but I have for a few other projects and it
>> made me wonder about the mind of the creator.  I was always taught to
>> design and program with maintainability in mind.
>
> I don't know the source code in details either, nor do I have insight into the
> project.
> But I don't think this is actually the case here.
>
> Rather that parts of it had to be rewritten basically from scratch.
> (you probably could argue now that that's because of bad decisions in the
> past, but that won't change anything about the current state either, and I
> don't think that was actually forseeable)
I'd argue that KDE5/Qt5 is not compatible with KDE4/Qt4 if applications
have to be rewritten.


> Also, some (most?) old developers stopped working on it, due to lack of time
> e.g.
>
> Remember, this is about an open source project where people are working on it
> in their spare time, without getting paid.
>
> That of course also means that everybody who wants to can easily join in and
> help/contribute though.
>
> Not really the topic of this mailinglist though, Amarok is not developed by
> openSUSE (nor is any other software that's going to be dropped).
I know. But it is openSUSE users who suffer the final fallout. I know,
there is no solution, not blaming anyone here. Just venting steam.

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Wolfgang Bauer
In reply to this post by Luca Beltrame
Am Freitag, 29. März 2019, 16:53:17 schrieb Luca Beltrame:
> In data venerdì 29 marzo 2019 16:14:18 CET, Luiz Fernando Ranghetti ha
>
> scritto:
> > For those using Amarok, have you tryed Clementine? Its inspired on
> > Amarok 1.4 (from kde3) and mantained till today
>
> Clementine still hasn't released their Qt5 version, that still lives in a
> branch. So it's not an acceptable replacement, since the last released
> version (from years ago) is still Qt4 based.

Tumbleweed actually contains a Qt5 based git snapshot though.

Kind Regards,
Wolfgang

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Wolfgang Bauer
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
Am Freitag, 29. März 2019, 18:39:27 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> I'd argue that KDE5/Qt5 is not compatible with KDE4/Qt4 if applications
> have to be rewritten.

There is no "KDE5"... ;-)

And as I already mentioned, Qt5 actually is quite compatible (to Qt4), porting
applications from Qt4 to Qt5 usually only needs minor changes to the code, if
any at all.
Porting kdelibs4 based applications to KDE Frameworks5 is usually not too
difficult either, and there are extensive notes (and even scripts) that help
with that.

It certainly is/can be a lot of work though depending on the size of the
project.
(e.g. some things have been removed from the KDE Frameworks because the
functionality has been moved to Qt itself, but that usually needs changes to
the application code)

And as I wrote already as well, in the particular case of Amarok, some parts
had to be rewritten because they used certain technology (Plasma, QtScript)
that changed too much and/or has been deprecated.
That's not really the general case though. And many (most) other applications
have been fully ported already anyway.

Kind Regards,
Wolfgang

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Darryl Gregorash
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
On 2019-03-29 11:39 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> I'd argue that KDE5/Qt5 is not compatible with KDE4/Qt4 if applications
> have to be rewritten.
>
If compatibility was such a burning issue, we'd have a version of Leap
15.0 that can be run on an 8-bit CPU. </s>
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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Wolfgang Bauer
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
PS, I'd like to add one thing:
Am Freitag, 29. März 2019, 18:39:27 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> I'd argue that KDE5/Qt5 is not compatible with KDE4/Qt4 if applications
> have to be rewritten.

Of course the whole point of a new *major* release is to not have to be fully
compatible to the previous one, and be able to redesign stuff as well to be
better fit for the future e.g.

Kind Regards,
Wolfgang

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Anton Aylward-2
In reply to this post by Darryl Gregorash
On 3/29/19 2:13 PM, Darryl Gregorash wrote:
> On 2019-03-29 11:39 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> I'd argue that KDE5/Qt5 is not compatible with KDE4/Qt4 if applications
>> have to be rewritten.
>>
> If compatibility was such a burning issue, we'd have a version of Leap
> 15.0 that can be run on an 8-bit CPU. </s>
>

That's silly.
And saying it about a 16-bit machine is also silly.

But there are many who would appreciate a 32-but version.
I still have a number of 32-but machines ... sadly running earlier versions well
past EoL

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Darryl Gregorash
On 2019-03-29 06:57 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

> On 3/29/19 2:13 PM, Darryl Gregorash wrote:
>> On 2019-03-29 11:39 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> I'd argue that KDE5/Qt5 is not compatible with KDE4/Qt4 if applications
>>> have to be rewritten.
>>>
>> If compatibility was such a burning issue, we'd have a version of Leap
>> 15.0 that can be run on an 8-bit CPU. </s>
>>
> That's silly.
> And saying it about a 16-bit machine is also silly.
>
> But there are many who would appreciate a 32-but version.
> I still have a number of 32-but machines ... sadly running earlier versions well
> past EoL
>
It's not silly, it's sarcastic, and fully intended as such. I've been
running at least one PC for over 30 years, and every time a new standard
is introduced (hardware or software), people are complaining if it's not
fully backward compatible -- by which standard, we should still be
driving on the left side of the road (no apologies to my Aussie and
British cousins lol).
I make no apologies if any of that offends anyone, because every time
something vastly different and significantly improved comes on the
scene, something from the past is bound to get broken. Demanding
perpetual backward compatibility means only that hardware becomes
cumbersome and difficult to maintain, and software becomes slow and
bloated, and that is a price I for one am unwilling to accept.
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Re: [opensuse-OFFLIST-kde] KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Anton Aylward-2
On 3/29/19 10:23 PM, Darryl Gregorash wrote:
> I make no apologies if any of that offends anyone, because every time
> something vastly different and significantly improved comes on the
> scene, something from the past is bound to get broken. Demanding
> perpetual backward compatibility means only that hardware becomes
> cumbersome and difficult to maintain, and software becomes slow and
> bloated, and that is a price I for one am unwilling to accept.

Well!
Personally I think that as we go forward software becomes bloated and difficult
to maintain and the hardware has to follow and becomes cumbersome.  The ting
about those 8-bit machines and their software: there wasn't much power and
there's wasn't much address space so the code had to be lean and as such pretty
obvious.  I used to use the old book on UNIX 6 as an example to new hires to
show them how their college teachers made programming look difficult and C being
difficult.


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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Anton Aylward-2
In reply to this post by Felix Miata-3
On 3/28/19 1:50 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
> Christophe Giboudeaux composed on 2019-03-28 14:49 (UTC+0100):
>
>> KDE4 is dead and will be removed shortly from openSUSE Factory.
>> Qt4 is dead and shall be removed as soon as possible from openSUSE Factory.
> Last I checked, and it has been a while, no other WM/Greeter in OSS or non-OSS
> provides adequate feature equivalence to KDM. Thus this kill will create
> dependence on at least one optional repo to avoid dependence on startx.
>

Indeed.
My efforts to remove Qt4/KDE4 dependecy has broken a lot.
Even stuff that i though was pure KDF5 like kwrite:

================
anton@main:~> kwrite
kwrite: /usr/lib64/libQt5Core.so.5: version `Qt_5.6.2_PRIVATE_API' not found
(required by /usr/lib64/libQt5Script.so.5)

anton@main:~> rpm -qf  /usr/lib64/libQt5Script.so.5
libQt5Script5-5.6.2-1.18.x86_64
anton@main:~> rpm -qf  /usr/lib64/libQt5Core.so.5
libQt5Core5-5.12.2-1.1.x86_64

Information for package libQt5Core5:
------------------------------------
Repository     : 423 KDE_Qt5_Leap
Name           : libQt5Core5
Version        : 5.12.2-1.1
Arch           : x86_64
Vendor         : obs://build.opensuse.org/KDE
Installed Size : 5.3 MiB
Installed      : Yes
Status         : up-to-date

Information for package libQt5Script5:
--------------------------------------
Repository     : openSUSE-Leap-42.3-Oss
Name           : libQt5Script5
Version        : 5.6.2-1.18
Arch           : x86_64
Vendor         : openSUSE
Installed Size : 3.2 MiB
Installed      : Yes
Status         : up-to-date
===================

Mmm.  Not all from same repository.
OK fix that.
When I can run 'yast2 sw-single' without it crashing.
oh, dear, problems are cascading.



I've tried drilling down on that and some googling but I'm "WTF?"

KDM, as Feix says, is very flexible, but as far as I can tell there is a broken
KDF start-up or a wrong start-up since non of the options to get into KDE in any
of the forms it can select work.

===================
anton@main:~> rpm -qf /usr/bin/kwrite
kwrite-17.04.2-1.6.x86_64

Information for package kwrite:
-------------------------------
Repository     : openSUSE-Leap-42.3-Oss
Name           : kwrite
Version        : 17.04.2-1.6
Arch           : x86_64
Vendor         : openSUSE
Installed Size : 260.8 KiB
Installed      : Yes
Status         : up-to-date
====================================

Googling, I see that people try playing with LD_LIBRARY_PATH
I've never had to do that with any of the KDE suite before.  Why now?
Its not as if I'm running a couple of different versions in parallel, at least
not 'by intent'.  Yes, there's non KDF5 stuff still abound, like KDM that needs
the KDE4 libraries, but I don't think that's the issue here.




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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Carlos E. R.-2
On 30/03/2019 15.00, Anton Aylward wrote:

> On 3/28/19 1:50 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
>> Christophe Giboudeaux composed on 2019-03-28 14:49 (UTC+0100):
>>
>>> KDE4 is dead and will be removed shortly from openSUSE Factory.
>>> Qt4 is dead and shall be removed as soon as possible from openSUSE Factory.
>> Last I checked, and it has been a while, no other WM/Greeter in OSS or non-OSS
>> provides adequate feature equivalence to KDM. Thus this kill will create
>> dependence on at least one optional repo to avoid dependence on startx.
>>
>
> Indeed.
> My efforts to remove Qt4/KDE4 dependecy has broken a lot.
> Even stuff that i though was pure KDF5 like kwrite:
But why are you doing that? :-o


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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Hans-Peter Jansen-2
In reply to this post by Wolfgang Bauer
Am Freitag, 29. März 2019, 15:39:22 CEST schrieb Wolfgang Bauer:

> Am Freitag, 29. März 2019, 14:04:26 schrieb Luca Beltrame:
> > > based applications to Qt5/Plasma5, which requires manual work for the
> > > real
> > > issues only?
> >
> > Not as far as I know, although the changes for most applications aren't
> > that large.
>
> There are some scripts that can "automatically" port certain things, they
> are in the package kdesdk4-scripts-kf5-porting.
>
> But even then, manual work is required, there is no tool that you can feed
> the full source code and get a compilable KF5 application out of it.

Thanks, will try to apply that on kding. It's too useful to abandon.

> > > Missing amarok, scribus, and kding hurts the most.
> >
> > Doesn't scribus offer a Qt5 version now? Probably not yet promoted to
> > stable, but it exists.
>
> Yes, as a 'beta' (or even alpha?) version ("Scribus 1.5.4 is in many ways a
> new milestone on our way to the next officially stable release 1.6.0.").
> No idea how usable it is...

Okay, scribus in on the way, only amarok seems to be stuck.

Thanks, Wolfgang and Luca, for your valuable replies.

Cheers,
Pete


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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Hans-Peter Jansen-2
In reply to this post by Felix Miata-3
Am Donnerstag, 28. März 2019, 18:50:48 CEST schrieb Felix Miata:
> Christophe Giboudeaux composed on 2019-03-28 14:49 (UTC+0100):
> > KDE4 is dead and will be removed shortly from openSUSE Factory.
> > Qt4 is dead and shall be removed as soon as possible from openSUSE
> > Factory.
>
> Last I checked, and it has been a while, no other WM/Greeter in OSS or
> non-OSS provides adequate feature equivalence to KDM. Thus this kill will
> create dependence on at least one optional repo to avoid dependence on
> startx.

Reminds me, that SDDM is missing XDMCP badly still, and no attempts are being
made implementing it: https://github.com/sddm/sddm/issues/1069. That's a pity,
since loosing KDM, we will need to switch to GDM or some other DM supporting
XDMCP, if VNC display manager support is requested, or the like (something,
that I use a lot..).

Cheers,
Pete


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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Wolfgang Bauer
In reply to this post by Anton Aylward-2
Am Freitag, 29. März 2019, 20:57:11 schrieb Anton Aylward:
> But there are many who would appreciate a 32-but version.
> I still have a number of 32-but machines ... sadly running earlier versions
> well past EoL

openSUSE Tumbleweed is (still) available as 32bit version though.

Kind Regards,
Wolfgang

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Wolfgang Bauer
In reply to this post by Hans-Peter Jansen-2
Am Sonntag, 31. März 2019, 18:30:30 schrieb Hans-Peter Jansen:
> Reminds me, that SDDM is missing XDMCP badly still, and no attempts are
> being made implementing it: https://github.com/sddm/sddm/issues/1069.

Well, there actually has been an *attempt*, but it was abandoned
unfortunately:
https://github.com/sddm/sddm/pull/107

Kind Regards,
Wolfgang

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KDE4 Status update (was: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory)

Christophe Giboudeaux-2
In reply to this post by Christophe Giboudeaux-2
Hi,

Status update:
Delete requests were filed for almost all the remaining KDE4 packages in
openSUSE Factory.

Unless I forgot packages, only the bare minimum to run Amarok 2.9.0 should
remain after that.

Based on your feedback only Amarok would be missed.
The features mentioned are:
- collection management,
- metadata editing

As none of the plasma applets in Amarok 2.9.0 were mentioned, my conclusion is
that the missing eye candy applets are not an issue.

As Wolfgang mentioned earlier, the Amarok development is going slowly, I
personally don't think it will get a KF5/Qt5 based release.

Based on your tests, we'll see if it's worth pushing a snapshot package to
openSUSE Tumbleweed or asking for its removal.

We're also interested in hearing whether the other players available can suit
your needs.

Please test and compare the other audio players:
- Elisa
- Cantata
- Musique (available in KDE:Extra)
- Yarock  (available in KDE:Extra)
- Clementine

In approx. 2 weeks, we'll see what should be done with Amarok.

Thanks.

Just a word about KDM: it's part of kdebase4-workspace and will be removed
from openSUSE Factory. If you need specific features, I strongly suggest to
test the other display managers.



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Re: KDE4 Status update (was: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory)

Vojtěch Zeisek-2
Hi

Dne pondělí 8. dubna 2019 11:52:21 CEST, Christophe Giboudeaux napsal(a):
> Based on your feedback only Amarok would be missed.

Not only, but other should be fixed in reasonable time.

> The features mentioned are:

I must say I'm not fun of various eye candy... ehm... wasting of space and
CPU. ;-) I also don't use on-line services, only podcasts.

> - collection management,

Might be I'd add that it also means various filtering, searching, sorting
according to year, genre, artist, ...

> - metadata editing

Including batch operations.

> As none of the plasma applets in Amarok 2.9.0 were mentioned, my
> conclusion is that the missing eye candy applets are not an issue.

I'd agree.

> As Wolfgang mentioned earlier, the Amarok development is going slowly,
> I personally don't think it will get a KF5/Qt5 based release.
> Based on your tests, we'll see if it's worth pushing a snapshot package
> to openSUSE Tumbleweed or asking for its removal.

Should we recall question what should be the default music player for KDE?

> We're also interested in hearing whether the other players available
> can suit your needs.

In GTK-based DE, I'd consider Rhythmbox. VLC, MPlayer (and relatives) and
similar are great for movies, but not for music, especially not for larger
collections, IMHO.

> Please test and compare the other audio players:
> - Elisa

- Nice design, but to my taste to wasting space and adding just eye candy
without functions.
- For me too simple, features poor.
- I didn't find way how to edit ID3 tags.
- Searching doesn't work without Baloo indexing content of files (I index only
files and metadata to save space and resources).
- Managing of playlists is not very convenient. I'd expect more drag and drop.
For example, I can't just drag and drop album to playlist. I must hover over
album and click to appearing plus icon. Weird. I can't select more songs and
move them to different place of playlist (only one by one).
- It doesn't have tray icon to hide in.
- Comparing to Amarok, poor options how to sort music collection.
- No context menu (right click) in playlist and so on.
- No support for podcasts.
- No option to update information about the songs or cover images.

> - Cantata

- It requires mpd, but doesn't install it as dependency. IMHO application
requiring mpd shouldn't be default. I don't consider its usage very
straightforward (connection to mpd took relatively long time).
- It doesn't have tray icon to hide in.
- Comparing to Amarok, poor options how to sort music collection.
- It has ID3 tag editing option.
- I like the minimalistic GUI.
- It seems it's able to handle only one folder with music.
- Rich context menu.
- No option to update cover images.
- Supports podcasts.
- Despite all problems (from my point of view), this is the second best app
from the list.

> - Musique (available in KDE:Extra)

- By default, it sends some usage statistics somewhere. I don't like that.
- Feature poor.
- It doesn't have tray icon to hide in.
- Comparing to Amarok, poor options how to sort music collection.
- It doesn't edit ID3 tags, so no collection management.
- Only one folder for collection.
- No support for podcasts.
- No context menu (right click) in playlist and so on.
- No option to update information about the songs or cover images.
- Overall, I don't like it very much.

> - Yarock  (available in KDE:Extra)

- It took several hours (!) to index my collection (the others did in few
minutes).
- When I add anything into playlist, id does never ending extreme slow some
loading of information about the item.
- I strongly dislike its GUI. It seems like total chaos with random placement
of various items.
- It has try icon.
- Comparing to Amarok, poor options how to sort music collection.
- It doesn't edit ID3 tags, so no collection management.
- It seems there is no option to update information about the songs or cover
images.
- I didn't find if it supports podcasts or not...
- For me, the worst app from the list (second worst from the list).

> - Clementine

- Old good Amarok. :-) Am I objective when I have been using Amarok since
KDE3? ;-)
- It has try icon.
- The most feature rich application from the list (if I disregard Amarok
itself).
- It has plugins, it can convert various audio formats (e.g. mp3 to ogg).
- Rich options to sort  and display music.
- Plenty of space for the playlist.
- I like its relatively minimalistic GUI.
- I could use this instead of Amarok, for me, it's the best app from the list.
- Supports podcasts.

> In approx. 2 weeks, we'll see what should be done with Amarok.

From GTK world I like also Rhythmbox, but I'd rather avoid too much mixing of
GNOME apps with KDE.
As players, VLC and SMPlayer are also great, but not for larger collections.
Not much of features discussed above...

--
Vojtěch Zeisek

Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu
Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux

https://www.opensuse.org/
https://trapa.cz/

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: [opensuse-kde] KDE4 Status update

Carlos E. R.-2
On 17/04/2019 16.34, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
> Hi
>
> Dne pondělí 8. dubna 2019 11:52:21 CEST, Christophe Giboudeaux napsal(a):

...

> Should we recall question what should be the default music player for KDE?
>
>> We're also interested in hearing whether the other players available
>> can suit your needs.
>
> In GTK-based DE, I'd consider Rhythmbox. VLC, MPlayer (and relatives) and
> similar are great for movies, but not for music, especially not for larger
> collections, IMHO.
>
>> Please test and compare the other audio players:

...


>> - Clementine
>
> - Old good Amarok. :-) Am I objective when I have been using Amarok since
> KDE3? ;-)

I also like this one :-)


>  From GTK world I like also Rhythmbox, but I'd rather avoid too much mixing of
> GNOME apps with KDE.

I'll try this one, not familiar to me. As my preferred desktop is XFCE,
it interests me.

It doesn't start scanning the collection till I changed in preferences
"Watch my library for new files", then it does that fast.

I don't know where it stores "last played". Some players write this to
the file itself, others to some not compatible database. It would be
nice for players to agree in some auxiliary file format to keep this info.

It has a little panel that lists all artists, another all albums (in
browse mode, it is a toggle button). Coming from Clementine, things do
not seem obvious, but it has enough features to be usefull. It can edit
fields, even on a bunch of files simultaneously.

Double click on an album does not add it to the play list, but starts
playing it immediately.

When I installed it (on 15.1 beta) I saw it bringing in brasero, so it
should be able to burn CDs from selected tracks. Maybe it can also
handle USB sticks.

Confusingly, clicking on the window close button closes it completely,
it does not go to the tray. And when restarted, it doesn't go back to
the place in the track it was playing.

It has by default plugins for radio, podcasts, last.fm, and libre.fm,
and others in the configuration.

It does cover art search by default.


Not bad, all in all :-)


--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

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