KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

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KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Christophe Giboudeaux-2
Hi,

Short version:
KDE4 is dead and will be removed shortly from openSUSE Factory.
Qt4 is dead and shall be removed as soon as possible from openSUSE Factory.

Long version:
The last kdelibs version was released in 2017 and is no longer maintained,
Qt4 is also no longer maintained upstream.

To avoid keeping zombies with security issues, it's time to kill the kdelibs4
based packages but also the Qt4 based ones.

A couple delete requests for KDE4 packages are currently being processes and
more will follow.
kdelibs4 will be the last one to go and after that, we'll remove packages not
present in Leap from the KDE: tree.

Qt4's fate shall be the same. If you maintain packages still using Qt4, please
check if Qt5-based versions exist, if the Qt dependency is mandatory and/or if
these packages are still useful.

Thanks,

The KDE team.



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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Vojtěch Zeisek-2
Dne čtvrtek 28. března 2019 14:49:36 CET, Christophe Giboudeaux napsal(a):
> KDE4 is dead and will be removed shortly from openSUSE Factory.
> Qt4 is dead and shall be removed as soon as possible from openSUSE Factory.

I realised I'm using the only KDE4/Qt4 application: Amarok. The only news
about its KF5/Qt5 port i found is https://phabricator.kde.org/D10526 while
https://amarok.kde.org/ isn't very informative about this (BTW, the site seems
to be using outdated insecure unsupported Drupal).
It seems Elisa https://community.kde.org/Elisa should/could ? be replacement
of Amarok, but Amarok is feature much more rich. Elisa seems to be just player
while Amarok has plenty of tools to organize the collection. I really like it,
for me it's the best Linux music player and collection manager.
Moreover, https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:15.0 lists for users KDE and links to
https://en.opensuse.org/KDE and it lists Amarok as the music player and links
to https://en.opensuse.org/Amarok So... are we going to have some KF5/Qt5
Amarok? There is https://software.opensuse.org/package/amarok5 but I haven't
tried it. What is its state?

--
Vojtěch Zeisek

Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu
Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux

https://www.opensuse.org/
https://trapa.cz/

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Felix Miata-3
In reply to this post by Christophe Giboudeaux-2
Christophe Giboudeaux composed on 2019-03-28 14:49 (UTC+0100):

> KDE4 is dead and will be removed shortly from openSUSE Factory.
> Qt4 is dead and shall be removed as soon as possible from openSUSE Factory.
Last I checked, and it has been a while, no other WM/Greeter in OSS or non-OSS
provides adequate feature equivalence to KDM. Thus this kill will create
dependence on at least one optional repo to avoid dependence on startx.
--
Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Anton Aylward-2
In reply to this post by Christophe Giboudeaux-2
On 2019-03-28 9:49 a.m., Christophe Giboudeaux wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Short version:
> KDE4 is dead and will be removed shortly from openSUSE Factory.
> Qt4 is dead and shall be removed as soon as possible from openSUSE Factory.
>
> Long version:
> The last kdelibs version was released in 2017 and is no longer maintained,
> Qt4 is also no longer maintained upstream.
>
> To avoid keeping zombies with security issues, it's time to kill the kdelibs4
> based packages but also the Qt4 based ones.
>
> A couple delete requests for KDE4 packages are currently being processes and
> more will follow.
> kdelibs4 will be the last one to go and after that, we'll remove packages not
> present in Leap from the KDE: tree.

So: I try to remocve that and it cascades...
# zypper rm kdelibs4
Loading repository data...
Reading installed packages...
Resolving package dependencies...

The following 56 packages are going to be REMOVED:
  GimpResourcesThumbnailer akonadi amarok amarok-lang audex audex-lang baloo_kcm
  kaffeine kcm-servicemenus kde-thumbnailer-msoole kde-thumbnailer-ooxml
  kde4-kgreeter-plugins kdeartwork4-colorschemes kdeartwork4-decorations
  kdeartwork4-styles kdebase4-nsplugin kdebase4-runtime
  kdebase4-workspace-addons   kdebase4-workspace-liboxygenstyle
  kdebase4-workspace-libs kdelibs4 kdelibs4-branding-openSUSE kdepasswd kdepim4
  kdepim4-runtime kdepimlibs4 kdiff3 kdm kdnssd kget kmag kmousetool kmymoney
  kmymoney-doc kmymoney-lang konsole4-part korganizer kplayer kreversi kscd
  kvkbd kwalletmanager kwin libkcddb4 libkcompactdisc4 plasmoid-folderview
  polka polkit-kde-agent-1 python-kde4 python-kde4-doc python-kde4-khtml
  python-kde4-knewstuff python-kde4-phonon python-kde4-plasma qtcurve-kde4
  sweeper

56 packages to remove.

Quite a few of those I have no "5" versions of.

>
> Qt4's fate shall be the same. If you maintain packages still using Qt4, please
> check if Qt5-based versions exist, if the Qt dependency is mandatory and/or if
> these packages are still useful.
>
> Thanks,
>
> The KDE team.
>
>
>


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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Knurpht-openSUSE
Op vrijdag 29 maart 2019 00:26:30 CET schreef Anton Aylward:

> On 2019-03-28 9:49 a.m., Christophe Giboudeaux wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Short version:
> > KDE4 is dead and will be removed shortly from openSUSE Factory.
> > Qt4 is dead and shall be removed as soon as possible from openSUSE
> > Factory.
> >
> > Long version:
> > The last kdelibs version was released in 2017 and is no longer maintained,
> > Qt4 is also no longer maintained upstream.
> >
> > To avoid keeping zombies with security issues, it's time to kill the
> > kdelibs4 based packages but also the Qt4 based ones.
> >
> > A couple delete requests for KDE4 packages are currently being processes
> > and more will follow.
> > kdelibs4 will be the last one to go and after that, we'll remove packages
> > not present in Leap from the KDE: tree.
>
> So: I try to remocve that and it cascades...
> # zypper rm kdelibs4
> Loading repository data...
> Reading installed packages...
> Resolving package dependencies...
>
> The following 56 packages are going to be REMOVED:
>   GimpResourcesThumbnailer akonadi amarok amarok-lang audex audex-lang
> baloo_kcm kaffeine kcm-servicemenus kde-thumbnailer-msoole
> kde-thumbnailer-ooxml kde4-kgreeter-plugins kdeartwork4-colorschemes
> kdeartwork4-decorations kdeartwork4-styles kdebase4-nsplugin
> kdebase4-runtime
>   kdebase4-workspace-addons   kdebase4-workspace-liboxygenstyle
>   kdebase4-workspace-libs kdelibs4 kdelibs4-branding-openSUSE kdepasswd
> kdepim4 kdepim4-runtime kdepimlibs4 kdiff3 kdm kdnssd kget kmag kmousetool
> kmymoney kmymoney-doc kmymoney-lang konsole4-part korganizer kplayer
> kreversi kscd kvkbd kwalletmanager kwin libkcddb4 libkcompactdisc4
> plasmoid-folderview polka polkit-kde-agent-1 python-kde4 python-kde4-doc
> python-kde4-khtml python-kde4-knewstuff python-kde4-phonon
> python-kde4-plasma qtcurve-kde4 sweeper
>
> 56 packages to remove.
>
> Quite a few of those I have no "5" versions of.
>
> > Qt4's fate shall be the same. If you maintain packages still using Qt4,
> > please check if Qt5-based versions exist, if the Qt dependency is
> > mandatory and/or if these packages are still useful.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > The KDE team.
Seems quite useless since you don't know the deps/recommenends of future
releases

--
Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht
openSUSE Board Member
openSUSE Forums Team


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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Christophe Giboudeaux-2
In reply to this post by Vojtěch Zeisek-2
On jeudi 28 mars 2019 15:11:46 CET Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
> Dne čtvrtek 28. března 2019 14:49:36 CET, Christophe Giboudeaux napsal(a):
> > KDE4 is dead and will be removed shortly from openSUSE Factory.
> > Qt4 is dead and shall be removed as soon as possible from openSUSE
> > Factory.
>
> I realised I'm using the only KDE4/Qt4 application: Amarok. The only news
> about its KF5/Qt5 port i found is https://phabricator.kde.org/D10526 while
> https://amarok.kde.org/ isn't very informative about this (BTW, the site
> seems to be using outdated insecure unsupported Drupal).

Correct, Amarok is a problem. The Qt5/KF5 port stalled, the quality of the
last git snapshots were far from being usable.

We have a couple other players in KDE:Extra, did you try them?
- Yarock
- Elisa
- Cantata




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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Carlos E. R.-5
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



On Friday, 2019-03-29 at 10:44 +0100, Christophe Giboudeaux wrote:

> On jeudi 28 mars 2019 15:11:46 CET Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
>> Dne čtvrtek 28. března 2019 14:49:36 CET, Christophe Giboudeaux napsal(a):
>>> KDE4 is dead and will be removed shortly from openSUSE Factory.
>>> Qt4 is dead and shall be removed as soon as possible from openSUSE
>>> Factory.
>>
>> I realised I'm using the only KDE4/Qt4 application: Amarok. The only news
>> about its KF5/Qt5 port i found is https://phabricator.kde.org/D10526 while
>> https://amarok.kde.org/ isn't very informative about this (BTW, the site
>> seems to be using outdated insecure unsupported Drupal).
>
> Correct, Amarok is a problem. The Qt5/KF5 port stalled, the quality of the
> last git snapshots were far from being usable.
[useless rant] IMHO, something is wrong in library design if going from
one version to the next is that difficult.

- --
Cheers,
        Carlos E. R.
        (from openSUSE 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Vojtěch Zeisek-2
In reply to this post by Christophe Giboudeaux-2
Dne pátek 29. března 2019 10:44:37 CET, Christophe Giboudeaux napsal(a):

> On jeudi 28 mars 2019 15:11:46 CET Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
> > Dne čtvrtek 28. března 2019 14:49:36 CET, Christophe Giboudeaux napsal(a):
> > > KDE4 is dead and will be removed shortly from openSUSE Factory.
> > > Qt4 is dead and shall be removed as soon as possible from openSUSE
> > > Factory.
> >
> > I realised I'm using the only KDE4/Qt4 application: Amarok. The only news
> > about its KF5/Qt5 port i found is https://phabricator.kde.org/D10526 while
> > https://amarok.kde.org/ isn't very informative about this (BTW, the site
> > seems to be using outdated insecure unsupported Drupal).
>
> Correct, Amarok is a problem. The Qt5/KF5 port stalled, the quality of the
> last git snapshots were far from being usable.
>
> We have a couple other players in KDE:Extra, did you try them?
> - Yarock
> - Elisa
> - Cantata
I tried Elisa. As music player it wasn't bad (although I don't need such
graphical fanciness), I missed Amarok's options to manage the collection. It
was some time ago, it could improve in meantime. I'll have a look at the
others.
I can use as music player whatever, including VLC or so, but I also need some
collection manager (edits of metadata and so on) and Amarok is very convenient
in this way as it combines all functions and has so many features...
As Amarok seems to be still the default for KDE (Is it?), what will be the
next default? Elisa? Yarock? ...?

--
Vojtěch Zeisek

Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu
Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux

https://www.opensuse.org/
https://trapa.cz/

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Luca Beltrame
In data venerdì 29 marzo 2019 10:56:44 CET, Vojt?ch Zeisek ha scritto:

> features... As Amarok seems to be still the default for KDE (Is it?), what
> will be the next default? Elisa? Yarock? ...?

Elisa is from KDE as well, so this is a possible candidate. I haven't yet used
it for a long time, though.

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GPG key ID: A29D259B

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Hans-Peter Jansen-2
In reply to this post by Christophe Giboudeaux-2
Am Donnerstag, 28. März 2019, 14:49:36 CET schrieb Christophe Giboudeaux:

> Hi,
>
> Short version:
> KDE4 is dead and will be removed shortly from openSUSE Factory.
> Qt4 is dead and shall be removed as soon as possible from openSUSE Factory.
>
> Long version:
> The last kdelibs version was released in 2017 and is no longer maintained,
> Qt4 is also no longer maintained upstream.
>
> To avoid keeping zombies with security issues, it's time to kill the
> kdelibs4 based packages but also the Qt4 based ones.
>
> A couple delete requests for KDE4 packages are currently being processes and
> more will follow.
> kdelibs4 will be the last one to go and after that, we'll remove packages
> not present in Leap from the KDE: tree.
>
> Qt4's fate shall be the same. If you maintain packages still using Qt4,
> please check if Qt5-based versions exist, if the Qt dependency is mandatory
> and/or if these packages are still useful.

Hrmpf, removing KDE4/Qt4 will remove a lot of packages:

  breeze4-style             5.15.3-1.1              
  jovie                     17.08.3-1.5              
  kdebase4-runtime          17.08.3-6.5              
  kdebase4-workspace-libs   4.11.22-16.3            
  kdelibs4                  4.14.38-7.1              
  kdelibs4-core             4.14.38-7.1              
  kding                     0.6-1                    
  kscd                      17.08.3-1.3              
  libattica0_4              0.4.2-5.11              
  libbreezecommon4-5        5.15.3-1.1              
  libdbusmenu-qt2           0.9.2+14.04.20131209-3.13
  libkactivities6           4.13.3-6.13              
  libkde4                   4.14.38-7.1              
  libkdecore4               4.14.38-7.1              
  libksuseinstall1          4.14.38-7.1              
  libphonon4                4.10.2-1.1              
  libpolkit-qt-1-1          0.112.0-1.9              
  libqt4                    4.8.7-16.1              
  libqt4-qt3support         4.8.7-16.1              
  libqt4-sql                4.8.7-16.1              
  libqt4-sql-sqlite         4.8.7-16.1              
  libqt4-x11                4.8.7-16.1              
  phonon-backend-gstreamer  4.9.0-1.10              
  scribus                   1.4.7-3.3                
  sni-qt                    0.2.6-5.4                
  unetbootin                0.0.657-1.3              

On another system:

  amarok                             2.9.0-2.5                
  amarok-lang                        2.9.0-2.5                
  breeze4-style                      5.14.5-1.3              
  jovie                              17.08.3-1.5              
  kde4-kgreeter-plugins              4.11.22-16.3            
  kdebase4-runtime                   17.08.3-6.4              
  kdebase4-workspace-libs            4.11.22-16.3            
  kdelibs4                           4.14.38-6.3              
  kdelibs4-core                      4.14.38-6.3              
  kdepimlibs4                        4.14.10-7.3              
  kdm                                4.11.22-16.3            
  kdm-theme-lisa                     1.2-2.2                  
  keurocalc                          1.2.3-1.6                
  keurocalc-lang                     1.2.3-1.6                
  kio_audiocd4                       16.08.3-1.7              
  kio_mtp                            0.75-6.10                
  kscd                               17.08.3-1.3              
  libQtWebKit-devel                  4.8.7+2.3.4-2.157        
  libQtWebKit4                       4.8.7+2.3.4-2.157        
  libakonadi4                        4.14.10-7.3              
  libakonadiprotocolinternals1       1.13.0-11.7              
  libattica0_4                       0.4.2-5.11              
  libbreezecommon4-5                 5.14.5-1.3              
  libdbusmenu-qt2                    0.9.2+14.04.20131209-3.13
  libjoschy0                         0.8.1-4.5                
  libkactivities6                    4.13.3-6.13              
  libkcddb4                          16.08.3-1.7              
  libkcompactdisc4                   16.08.3-1.8              
  libkde4                            4.14.38-6.3              
  libkdecore4                        4.14.38-6.3              
  libkdegames6                       14.12.3-1.13            
  libkdepimlibs4                     4.14.10-7.3              
  libkscreen                         1.0.5-2.13              
  libkscreen1                        1.0.5-2.13              
  libksuseinstall1                   4.14.38-6.3              
  liblastfm1                         1.0.9-1.7                
  libmygpo-qt1                       1.1.0-1.3                
  libphonon4                         4.10.2-1.1              
  libpolkit-qt-1-1                   0.112.0-1.9              
  libprison0                         1.1.1-4.15              
  libqca2                            2.1.3-3.4                
  libqimageblitz4                    0.0.6+svn1515099-1.4    
  libqjson0                          0.8.1-9.12              
  libqscintilla2_qt4-13              2.10.8-2.4              
  libqt4                             4.8.7-15.2              
  libqt4-devel                       4.8.7-15.2              
  libqt4-linguist                    4.8.7-15.2              
  libqt4-qt3support                  4.8.7-15.2              
  libqt4-sql                         4.8.7-15.2              
  libqt4-sql-sqlite                  4.8.7-15.2              
  libqt4-x11                         4.8.7-15.2              
  oxygen-transparent                 0.1+20141112-6.8        
  oxygen-transparent-liboxygenstyle  0.1+20141112-6.8        
  phonon-backend-gstreamer           4.9.0-1.10              
  phonon-devel                       4.10.2-1.1              
  plasma-theme-helium                4.1.0-2.2                
  python3-qscintilla-qt4             2.10.8-2.5              
  python3-qt4                        4.12.3-1.4              
  qt4-qtscript                       0.2.0-13.3              
  recorditnow                        0.8.1-4.5                
  recorditnow-backend-ffmpeg         0.8.1-4.5                
  recorditnow-backend-mplayer        0.8.1-4.5                
  scribus                            1.4.7-3.2                
  sni-qt                             0.2.6-5.4                
  tipp10                             2.1.0-0                  

<irony>
Sure, you might get a more secure system, simply because loosing a lot of
users... Less installed systems, less security issues with it. I'm not sure,
if this is your intention.
</irony>

Is there any tool, that attempts an automatic transformation of Qt4/KDE4 based
applications to Qt5/Plasma5, which requires manual work for the real issues
only?

Missing amarok, scribus, and kding hurts the most.

Not being able to play an Audio CD will be a shame as well.

Cheers,
Pete


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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Luca Beltrame
In data venerdì 29 marzo 2019 13:54:50 CET, Hans-Peter Jansen ha scritto:

> Sure, you might get a more secure system, simply because loosing a lot of
> users... Less installed systems, less security issues with it. I'm not sure,

I don't see your point. That software is dead since years, no bugs are being
fixed (because yes, there are still bugs) let alone security (what about that
mess called QtWebKit?). By this reasoning we should have also kept Qt 3 and
KDE3 in the distro.

> based applications to Qt5/Plasma5, which requires manual work for the real
> issues only?

Not as far as I know, although the changes for most applications aren't that
large. When I ported my own application it didn't take much as far as I
remember.

> Missing amarok, scribus, and kding hurts the most.

Doesn't scribus offer a Qt5 version now? Probably not yet promoted to stable,
but it exists.

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Wolfgang Bauer
In reply to this post by Hans-Peter Jansen-2
Am Freitag, 29. März 2019, 13:54:50 schrieb Hans-Peter Jansen:
> Not being able to play an Audio CD will be a shame as well.

There certainly are applications available that can play back AudioCDs, other
than kscd and amarok (which wasn't a great AudioCD player anyway as it cannot
play them directly but rather "rips" the tracks first using kio_audiocd...).

Qt5 or KF5 based ones would e.g. be VLC or kaffeine.

kscd actually has been ported, but it doesn't work well AFAICT.
And there likely won't be a release anyway, unless somebody would suddenly
step up and take it over (this is open source after all)...

Amarok on the other hand *might* get a KF5 release at some point (at least I
hope so), although it's likely going to still take a while.

Kind Regards,
Wolfgang

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Wolfgang Bauer
In reply to this post by Christophe Giboudeaux-2
Am Freitag, 29. März 2019, 10:44:37 schrieb Christophe Giboudeaux:
> Correct, Amarok is a problem. The Qt5/KF5 port stalled, the quality of the
> last git snapshots were far from being usable.

Well, that depends on how you define "far from being usable", I suppose...

It can play music ( ;-) ), and the collection management seems to work as
well.
Although, I got a database error when I tried to start it right now. I'm not
sure why, I don't remember seeing that when I tried it in the past. (maybe
some incompatibility with newer mariadb versions or something?)
But switching to an external mysql (mariadb) database made the error
disappear.

Actually there were quite big steps forward last year, it became rather silent
again in the last couple of months though.

The main things missing that I see:
- not all context view applets have been ported/rewritten yet
- no scripts (and TBH, I don't know if the scripting engine actually works at
all currently)

That said, there likely are bugs and/or rough edges here and there.
It's certainly not in a state to consider pushing it to Tumbleweed (yet?)
IMHO.

Kind Regards,
Wolfgang

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Wolfgang Bauer
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-5
Am Freitag, 29. März 2019, 10:50:42 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> [useless rant] IMHO, something is wrong in library design if going from
> one version to the next is that difficult.

As Luca wrote already, it's actually often relatively easy to port
applications from Qt4 to Qt5 or kdelibs4 to KDE Frameworks5 (unless they still
use Qt3 compatibility stuff that got removed in Qt5).

But Amarok is a huge project, and too few people are actively working on it
(as usual...).
The main technical difficulties (AFAIK) were porting the context view (which
used Plasma, and got rewritten from scratch using QtQuick/QML directly), and
the scripting engine (which used QtScript that is still available but
deprecated in Qt5).

Anyway, as always, ranting/complaining/critizing doesn't help much.
More people would need to step up and actually do some work... (I'm not
addressing you or anybody in particular here, it's just a general statement)

Kind Regards,
Wolfgang

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Wolfgang Bauer
In reply to this post by Anton Aylward-2
Am Donnerstag, 28. März 2019, 19:26:30 schrieb Anton Aylward:
> 56 packages to remove.
>
> Quite a few of those I have no "5" versions of.

Quite a few packages in that list actually have been ported to KF5 though and
don't depend on kdelibs4 anymore (as of Leap 15.0 already actually).
So you either have long outdated/old packages installed, or you are using some
older Leap version (42.3 maybe?).

Just to be clear: this removal will of course not happen in already released
Leap versions, just in Tumbleweed for now and future Leap releases then (15.2
at the earliest, I would say).

Kind Regards,
Wolfgang

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Wolfgang Bauer
In reply to this post by Wolfgang Bauer
Am Freitag, 29. März 2019, 14:39:57 schrieb Wolfgang Bauer:
> That said, there likely are bugs and/or rough edges here and there.
> It's certainly not in a state to consider pushing it to Tumbleweed (yet?)
> IMHO.

Forgot to write:
In case somebody does want to try it out, a development snapshot is available
in KDE:Unstable:Extra.
URL for Tumbleweed:
https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Unstable:/Extra/openSUSE_Tumbleweed/

Kind Regards,
Wolfgang

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Anton Aylward-2
In reply to this post by Wolfgang Bauer
On 2019-03-29 9:45 a.m., Wolfgang Bauer wrote:
> Am Freitag, 29. März 2019, 10:50:42 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>> [useless rant] IMHO, something is wrong in library design if going from
>> one version to the next is that difficult.

Hmmm.


> As Luca wrote already, it's actually often relatively easy to port
> applications from Qt4 to Qt5 or kdelibs4 to KDE Frameworks5 (unless they still
> use Qt3 compatibility stuff that got removed in Qt5).

Hmmm.  OK, then.

>
> But Amarok is a huge project, and too few people are actively working on it
> (as usual...).

Maybe that tells us something.
Why are so few people working on it?
Is it not just that it is huge but that it is complicated and obscure and not
easy to comprehend and become familiar enough to work on?  I haven't looked at
the source of Amarok but I have for a few other projects and it made me wonder
about the mind of the creator.  I was always taught to design and program with
maintainability in mind.

> The main technical difficulties (AFAIK) were porting the context view (which
> used Plasma, and got rewritten from scratch using QtQuick/QML directly), and
> the scripting engine (which used QtScript that is still available but
> deprecated in Qt5).

As in "Depreciated" meaning "Its going away in the next revision", perhaps


> Anyway, as always, ranting/complaining/critizing doesn't help much.
> More people would need to step up and actually do some work... (I'm not
> addressing you or anybody in particular here, it's just a general statement)

It could also mean that the roots of the application and its design assumptions
go too far back and it is unmaintainable and should be left to die.

Or perhaps a completely new *design* created that just happens to have the same
name ...  I've seen that happen in the more commercial word for a variety of
products.

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Wolfgang Bauer
In reply to this post by Luca Beltrame
Am Freitag, 29. März 2019, 14:04:26 schrieb Luca Beltrame:
> > based applications to Qt5/Plasma5, which requires manual work for the real
> > issues only?
>
> Not as far as I know, although the changes for most applications aren't that
> large.

There are some scripts that can "automatically" port certain things, they are
in the package kdesdk4-scripts-kf5-porting.

But even then, manual work is required, there is no tool that you can feed the
full source code and get a compilable KF5 application out of it.

> > Missing amarok, scribus, and kding hurts the most.
>
> Doesn't scribus offer a Qt5 version now? Probably not yet promoted to
> stable, but it exists.

Yes, as a 'beta' (or even alpha?) version ("Scribus 1.5.4 is in many ways a
new milestone on our way to the next officially stable release 1.6.0.").
No idea how usable it is...

Kind Regards,
Wolfgang

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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Anton Aylward-2
In reply to this post by Wolfgang Bauer
On 2019-03-29 9:49 a.m., Wolfgang Bauer wrote:

> Am Donnerstag, 28. März 2019, 19:26:30 schrieb Anton Aylward:
>> 56 packages to remove.
>>
>> Quite a few of those I have no "5" versions of.
>
> Quite a few packages in that list actually have been ported to KF5 though and
> don't depend on kdelibs4 anymore (as of Leap 15.0 already actually).
> So you either have long outdated/old packages installed, or you are using some
> older Leap version (42.3 maybe?).
>
> Just to be clear: this removal will of course not happen in already released
> Leap versions, just in Tumbleweed for now and future Leap releases then (15.2
> at the earliest, I would say).

Thank you for that clarification.


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in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him.
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Re: KDE4/Qt4 removal from openSUSE Factory

Wolfgang Bauer
In reply to this post by Vojtěch Zeisek-2
Am Freitag, 29. März 2019, 10:56:44 schrieb Vojtěch Zeisek:
> As Amarok seems to be still the default for KDE (Is it?), what
> will be the next default? Elisa? Yarock? ...?

Depends on what you mean with "the default for KDE".
KDE itself doesn't really have a "the default". Not even Amarok is actually an
"official" KDE application, it's part of Extragear.
The only music player included in the "KDE Applications" releases is juk, so
you somehow could call that "the default" I suppose.

If you mean a default openSUSE KDE installation, I don't think we actually
install Amarok by default since a while (precisely because it is still
kdelibs4/Qt4 based).

I don't think we have a music player at all in the KDE patterns currently...

Edit: from patterns-kde/kde_multimedia:
# we want a video player
Recommends:     vlc
Suggests:       amarok
Suggests:       dragonplayer
Suggests:       juk
Suggests:       k3b
Suggests:       kscd

Amarok got degraded from "Recommends" to "Suggests" in August 2017:
https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/517378

Thu Aug 17 08:40:36 UTC 2017 - [hidden email]

- Do not recommend KDE4 based applications anymore
- Replace old KDE4 package names with current ones
- Move Recommends: kdebase4-workspace-libs to breeze4-style
- Set BuildArch: noarch and remove unnecessary patterns-kde-rpmlintrc

("Suggests" are not installed automatically.)

Kind Regards,
Wolfgang

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