KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

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KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Luca Beltrame
Hello,

For the record, we have pushed the 17.04 beta of the KDE Applications to the
KDE:Applications repository.

Please test if possible: report upstream bugs at bugs.kde.org and packaging
bugs at bugzilla.opensuse.org. This will ensure a smooth submission to
Tumbleweed first, then the upcoming Leap 42.3.

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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Rodney Baker-2
On Thursday, 30 March 2017 18:11:25 ACDT Luca Beltrame wrote:
> Hello,
>
> For the record, we have pushed the 17.04 beta of the KDE Applications to the
> KDE:Applications repository.
>
> Please test if possible: report upstream bugs at bugs.kde.org and packaging
> bugs at bugzilla.opensuse.org. This will ensure a smooth submission to
> Tumbleweed first, then the upcoming Leap 42.3.

Will this install OK (without conflict/dependency hell) on up-to-date
Tumbleweed? If I enable teh KDE:Applications repo and run a zypper dup, or use
Yast and tell it to "switch installed apps to this repo", is it intended that
it will install smoothly?

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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Daniele
In reply to this post by Luca Beltrame
Il 30/03/2017 09:41, Luca Beltrame ha scritto:
> Hello,
>
> For the record, we have pushed the 17.04 beta of the KDE Applications to the
> KDE:Applications repository.
>
Sorry but not good, now I have to disable the repo:( Beta release should
not go there..

Daniele.
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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Luca Beltrame
In data giovedì 30 marzo 2017 19:49:43 CEST, Daniele ha scritto:

> Sorry but not good, now I have to disable the repo:( Beta release should
> not go there..

If you're not using the official repos for Leap or TW you're on your own when
these things occur. They've been *always* unsupported, even since before the
current team. No matter if we try to make things as smooth as possible, those
are *development* projects.

As we want the Applications 17.04 release to enter beta, we had to do this in
order to get a proper review in due time.

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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Luca Beltrame
In data giovedì 30 marzo 2017 19:56:40 CEST, Luca Beltrame ha scritto:

> As we want the Applications 17.04 release to enter beta, we had to do this
> in order to get a proper review in due time.

That meant "to enter Leap 42.3".

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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Daniele
In reply to this post by Luca Beltrame
Il 30/03/2017 19:56, Luca Beltrame ha scritto:
> In data giovedì 30 marzo 2017 19:49:43 CEST, Daniele ha scritto:
>
>> Sorry but not good, now I have to disable the repo:( Beta release should
>> not go there..
>
> If you're not using the official repos for Leap or TW you're on your own when
> these things occur. They've been *always* unsupported, even since before the
> current team. No matter if we try to make things as smooth as possible, those
> are *development* projects.
Unsupported but stable is a thing, unsupported and alpha/beta, is
another one !
>
> As we want the Applications 17.04 release to enter beta, we had to do this in
> order to get a proper review in due time.
>
Use a different repo... so simple..
I'm not going to test beta software if I cannot going back if something
is broken.

Daniele.

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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Luca Beltrame
In data giovedì 30 marzo 2017 20:23:37 CEST, Daniele ha scritto:

> Use a different repo... so simple..

So simple for those who *don't* have to maintain all the KDE: repo hierarchy:

- KDE:Frameworks5
- KDE:Frameworks5:LTS
- KDE:Applications
- KDE:Extra
- KDE:Unstable:Frameworks
- KDE:Unstable:Applications
- KDE:Unstable:Extra
- KDE:Qt5
- KDE:Unstable:Qt

Plus others. Plus the effort to automate things.

 Granted, the burden is shared across different people, but still a lot less
than the available tasks.

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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Luca Beltrame
In data giovedì 30 marzo 2017 20:31:45 CEST, Luca Beltrame ha scritto:

>  Granted, the burden is shared across different people, but still a lot less
> than the available tasks.

In addition: if you want to have the latest and greatest available, use
Tumbleweed. It exists for this purpose.

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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Raymond Wooninck-2
In reply to this post by Daniele
On Donnerstag, 30. März 2017 20:23:37 CEST Daniele wrote:
> > If you're not using the official repos for Leap or TW you're on your own when
> > these things occur. They've been *always* unsupported, even since before the
> > current team. No matter if we try to make things as smooth as possible, those
> > are *development* projects.
> Unsupported but stable is a thing, unsupported and alpha/beta, is
> another one !

Sure, but this is the actual development project for packages in Factory/TW. So in order to get a review done, we need to upload the packages here.

> Use a different repo... so simple..
> I'm not going to test beta software if I cannot going back if something
> is broken.

If you are so concerned about stability, then why are you actually using this particular repository ?  This would update your system to any new release without the ability to go back. The packages in this repo are not tested and one could raise the question whether a new release could really be considered stable :)

If you are running Tumbleweed, then there is no need to use this repository at all. All packages will be delivered through the updates and are even tested by openQA.

Raymond

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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Mathias Homann-2
In reply to this post by Luca Beltrame
On Thu, March 30, 2017 19:56, Luca Beltrame wrote:

> In data giovedì 30 marzo 2017 19:49:43 CEST, Daniele ha scritto:
>
>
>> Sorry but not good, now I have to disable the repo:( Beta release should
>> not go there..
>
> If you're not using the official repos for Leap or TW you're on your own when
> these things occur. They've been *always* unsupported, even since before the current team. No
> matter if we try to make things as smooth as possible, those are *development* projects.
>
> As we want the Applications 17.04 release to enter beta, we had to do this in
> order to get a proper review in due time.

and doing that inside KDE:Unstable:* would not have been an option instead of doing it inside
the repositories that are used by end users to get the latest RELEASED Plasma and KDE Apps?

I just had zypper try to completely break my desktop computer by uninstalling pretty much the
whole KDEPIM because of this "update",


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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Daniele
In reply to this post by Raymond Wooninck-2
Il 30/03/2017 20:41, Raymond Wooninck ha scritto:

> On Donnerstag, 30. März 2017 20:23:37 CEST Daniele wrote:
>>> If you're not using the official repos for Leap or TW you're on your own when
>>> these things occur. They've been *always* unsupported, even since before the
>>> current team. No matter if we try to make things as smooth as possible, those
>>> are *development* projects.
>> Unsupported but stable is a thing, unsupported and alpha/beta, is
>> another one !
>
> Sure, but this is the actual development project for packages in Factory/TW. So in order to get a review done, we need to upload the packages here.
>
>> Use a different repo... so simple..
>> I'm not going to test beta software if I cannot going back if something
>> is broken.
>
> If you are so concerned about stability, then why are you actually using this particular repository ?
Because I found the Leap model very boring and not, TW is not a good
alternative.
I can risk with unsupported *but* stable release, not with unsupported
*and* beta.

The "fix" is so easy.. a testing repo and we are all happy.

Daniele.
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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Raymond Wooninck-2
In reply to this post by Mathias Homann-2
On Donnerstag, 30. März 2017 20:50:54 CEST Mathias Homann wrote:
> > As we want the Applications 17.04 release to enter beta, we had to do this in
> > order to get a proper review in due time.
>
> and doing that inside KDE:Unstable:* would not have been an option instead of doing it inside
> the repositories that are used by end users to get the latest RELEASED Plasma and KDE Apps?

The wikipage regarding the KDE Repositories clearly state that the KDE:Unstable:* repos are contain git snapshots of the master branches. As that a Beta
RELEASE is not a git snapshot, the beta shouldn't go in there. The page also clearly states that this repository would contain the latest releases and a beta RELEASE is still a release.



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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Raymond Wooninck-2
In reply to this post by Daniele
On Donnerstag, 30. März 2017 21:05:41 CEST Daniele wrote:

> Because I found the Leap model very boring and not, TW is not a good
> alternative.
> I can risk with unsupported *but* stable release, not with unsupported
> *and* beta.

Well, it was never stated anywhere that these repositories would only contain stable releases. We need a development repository to submit packages to TW and Leap. For this these particular repositories were created and are being used exactly for that purpose. Most of the time they will contain the latest release, however with a major version update a Beta is required to get things ready for TW.

> The "fix" is so easy.. a testing repo and we are all happy.

Sure. And I would like to propose that you are going to take care of the packages and make everyone happy. Please let me know your OBS id, so that we can assign you the rights and from that moment forward you will take care of the packaging and ensuring that all users are happy.

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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Daniele
Il 30/03/2017 22:41, Raymond Wooninck ha scritto:

> On Donnerstag, 30. März 2017 21:05:41 CEST Daniele wrote:
>
>> Because I found the Leap model very boring and not, TW is not a good
>> alternative.
>> I can risk with unsupported *but* stable release, not with unsupported
>> *and* beta.
>
> Well, it was never stated anywhere that these repositories would only contain stable releases. We need a development repository to submit packages to TW and Leap. For this these particular repositories were created and are being used exactly for that purpose. Most of the time they will contain the latest release, however with a major version update a Beta is required to get things ready for TW.
>
>> The "fix" is so easy.. a testing repo and we are all happy.
>
> Sure. And I would like to propose that you are going to take care of the packages and make everyone happy. Please let me know your OBS id, so that we can assign you the rights and from that moment forward you will take care of the packaging and ensuring that all users are happy.
>
I don't understand..
You already have stable packages, instead of replacing them with beta
release, put new packages in a beta/testing repo. When beta becomes
stable, replace the old stable packages. No additional work required..

Daniele.
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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Luca Beltrame
In data giovedì 30 marzo 2017 23:19:24 CEST, Daniele ha scritto:

> You already have stable packages, instead of replacing them with beta
> release, put new packages in a beta/testing repo. When beta becomes
> stable, replace the old stable packages. No additional work required..

You miss one important point. Part of the testing is submitting them to TW so
that openQA and reviews can be done (including legal review). You can't do
that unless you submit it from a devel project.

(And no, you can't just switch things depending on your needs).

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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Fabian Vogt-2
In reply to this post by Daniele
Am Donnerstag, 30. März 2017, 23:19:24 CEST schrieb Daniele:

> Il 30/03/2017 22:41, Raymond Wooninck ha scritto:
> > On Donnerstag, 30. März 2017 21:05:41 CEST Daniele wrote:
> >
> >> Because I found the Leap model very boring and not, TW is not a good
> >> alternative.
> >> I can risk with unsupported *but* stable release, not with unsupported
> >> *and* beta.
> >
> > Well, it was never stated anywhere that these repositories would only contain stable releases. We need a development repository to submit packages to TW and Leap. For this these particular repositories were created and are being used exactly for that purpose. Most of the time they will contain the latest release, however with a major version update a Beta is required to get things ready for TW.
> >
> >> The "fix" is so easy.. a testing repo and we are all happy.
> >
> > Sure. And I would like to propose that you are going to take care of the packages and make everyone happy. Please let me know your OBS id, so that we can assign you the rights and from that moment forward you will take care of the packaging and ensuring that all users are happy.
> >
> I don't understand..
> You already have stable packages, instead of replacing them with beta
> release, put new packages in a beta/testing repo. When beta becomes
> stable, replace the old stable packages. No additional work required..

You just described Tumbleweed.

Cheers,
Fabian

>
> Daniele.
>


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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Daniele
Il 31/03/2017 08:52, Fabian Vogt ha scritto:

> You just described Tumbleweed.
>
> Cheers,
> Fabian
..
It's ok for selected software, non for the whole distro.

Daniele.


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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Patrick Shanahan-2
* Daniele <[hidden email]> [03-31-17 13:18]:
> Il 31/03/2017 08:52, Fabian Vogt ha scritto:
>
> > You just described Tumbleweed.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Fabian
> .
> It's ok for selected software, non for the whole distro.

and that is "opinion".
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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Daniele
Il 31/03/2017 20:13, Patrick Shanahan ha scritto:

> * Daniele <[hidden email]> [03-31-17 13:18]:
>> Il 31/03/2017 08:52, Fabian Vogt ha scritto:
>>
>>> You just described Tumbleweed.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Fabian
>> .
>> It's ok for selected software, non for the whole distro.
>
> and that is "opinion".
>
Sure, only my opinion but looking at factory ML, often there's something
broken/half working with TW.

Daniele.
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Re: KDE:Applications has the 17.04 beta

Oliver Kurz-2
On Friday, 31 March 2017 20:59:05 CEST Daniele wrote:

> Il 31/03/2017 20:13, Patrick Shanahan ha scritto:
> > * Daniele <[hidden email]> [03-31-17 13:18]:
> >> Il 31/03/2017 08:52, Fabian Vogt ha scritto:
> >>> You just described Tumbleweed.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Fabian
> >>
> >> .
> >> It's ok for selected software, non for the whole distro.
> >
> > and that is "opinion".
>
> Sure, only my opinion but looking at factory ML, often there's something
> broken/half working with TW.

yes, you are right. And there are many ways to help with that, e.g.
* ensure upstream plasma is more stable
* implement automatic tests for the KDE OBS repos
* extend existing tests for Tumbleweed, e.g. on openqa.opensuse.org
* and many others

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