Is there a problem with mail delay today?

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Is there a problem with mail delay today?

Roman Bysh-3
Hi,

Is anyone experiencing a very long delay with [hidden email]
I used to see my response appear in several seconds.

Today I didn't even see my first questions appear in Thunderbird.

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Roman
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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

Carlos E. R.-2
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 2017-07-24 23:57, Roman Bysh wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is anyone experiencing a very long delay with
> [hidden email] I used to see my response appear in
> several seconds.
>
> Today I didn't even see my first questions appear in Thunderbird.

You are using gmail. With gmail you can *never* see your own post in
the mail list, because gmail deletes it automatically. If you need
feedback, use at the archive
(https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory).


Gmail has a feature that removes duplicate posts, looking at the
message-id. The message that the list server sends to everybody has
the same message-id than the one in your "sent" folder, it is
considered duplicate and deleted. What you see is only your local
"sent" copy.

Similarly, if people reply to you with one post to the mail list and
another direct to you, as the direct copy arrives faster (fewer hops),
the copy from the mail list is considered a duplicate and also deleted.


- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

  (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))
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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

Roman Bysh-3
On 25/07/17 02:24 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On 2017-07-24 23:57, Roman Bysh wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Is anyone experiencing a very long delay with
> > [hidden email] I used to see my response appear in
> > several seconds.
> >
> > Today I didn't even see my first questions appear in Thunderbird.
>
> You are using gmail. With gmail you can *never* see your own post in
> the mail list, because gmail deletes it automatically. If you need
> feedback, use at the archive
> (https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory).
>
>
> Gmail has a feature that removes duplicate posts, looking at the
> message-id. The message that the list server sends to everybody has
> the same message-id than the one in your "sent" folder, it is
> considered duplicate and deleted. What you see is only your local
> "sent" copy.
>
> Similarly, if people reply to you with one post to the mail list and
> another direct to you, as the direct copy arrives faster (fewer hops),
> the copy from the mail list is considered a duplicate and also deleted.
>
>
> - --
> Cheers / Saludos,
>
>         Carlos E. R.
>
>    (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2
>
> iF4EAREIAAYFAll3jNwACgkQja8UbcUWM1wtUQD9FpdiavSjQE+QyU2jy77HunbI
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> =vO4s
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
I see. For now, I'll add BCC so that I can see the original copy.
Thanks Carlos.


Cheers!

Roman
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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

Carlos E. R.-2
On 2017-07-25 22:07, Roman Bysh wrote:


> I see. For now, I'll add BCC so that I can see the original copy.
> Thanks Carlos.

That will not work. It is a duplicate, thus erased. You could use FCC,
"file copy", on your local mail user agent.

Or, you can use two accounts, one to send, another to receive.

Or, adjust a filter at gmail that sorts the local sent copy into the
opensuse label. Others do this, not me, so I don't know the exact trick.

--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

Carmen Bianca Bakker
In reply to this post by Roman Bysh-3
On Tuesday, 25 July 2017 22:07:59 CEST Roman Bysh wrote:
> I see. For now, I'll add BCC so that I can see the original copy.

Alternatively, consider not using Gmail.  You aren't only letting Google spy
on your e-mails; you are also letting them spy and build a profile on everyone
you talk to.

Reference:

https://www.alternet.org/google-using-gmail-build-psychological-profiles-hundreds-millions-people?paging=off

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PGP: 2A09 F627 39F6 DEC8 CFFC  A216 CD0A 90F1 C5CA 0C92

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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

Mike Galbraith-3
On Wed, 2017-07-26 at 09:37 +0200, Carmen Bianca Bakker wrote:

> On Tuesday, 25 July 2017 22:07:59 CEST Roman Bysh wrote:
> > I see. For now, I'll add BCC so that I can see the original copy.
>
> Alternatively, consider not using Gmail.  You aren't only letting Google spy
> on your e-mails; you are also letting them spy and build a profile on everyone
> you talk to.
>
> Reference:
>
> https://www.alternet.org/google-using-gmail-build-psychological-profiles-hundreds-millions-people?paging=off

Gasp, I better run right out and pick someone who hasn't yet been
caught.  Damn, where's NSA-mail when ya need it, they know all about
internet security <==> (scrutiny), privacy <==> (piracy) etc. :)

        -Mike
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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

Henne Vogelsang-2
In reply to this post by Carmen Bianca Bakker
Hey,

On 26.07.2017 09:37, Carmen Bianca Bakker wrote:

> Alternatively, consider not using Gmail.

Shameless advertisement: A very decent alternative is provided by one of
our openSUSE sponsors! -> https://mailbox.org/en/

For just 1€/month you get everything you need for mail. Check it out :-)

Henne

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http://www.opensuse.org
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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Carmen Bianca Bakker
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 2017-07-26 09:37, Carmen Bianca Bakker wrote:
> On Tuesday, 25 July 2017 22:07:59 CEST Roman Bysh wrote:
>> I see. For now, I'll add BCC so that I can see the original
>> copy.
>
> Alternatively, consider not using Gmail.  You aren't only letting
> Google spy on your e-mails; you are also letting them spy and build
> a profile on everyone you talk to.

Not an issue for mail lists ;-)

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

  (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))
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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Henne Vogelsang-2
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 2017-07-26 11:17, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

> Hey,
>
> On 26.07.2017 09:37, Carmen Bianca Bakker wrote:
>
>> Alternatively, consider not using Gmail.
>
> Shameless advertisement: A very decent alternative is provided by
> one of our openSUSE sponsors! -> https://mailbox.org/en/
>
> For just 1€/month you get everything you need for mail. Check it
> out :-)

Ah, thanks for the info :-)

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

  (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))
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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

Roman Bysh-4
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
On 26/07/17 08:16 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On 2017-07-26 09:37, Carmen Bianca Bakker wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 25 July 2017 22:07:59 CEST Roman Bysh wrote:
> >> I see. For now, I'll add BCC so that I can see the original
> >> copy.
> >
> > Alternatively, consider not using Gmail.  You aren't only letting
> > Google spy on your e-mails; you are also letting them spy and build
> > a profile on everyone you talk to.
>
> Not an issue for mail lists ;-)
>
> - --
> Cheers / Saludos,
>
>         Carlos E. R.
>
>    (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2
>
> iF4EAREIAAYFAll4iCcACgkQja8UbcUWM1yqJgD+IwJT2OTHB0+WclhqGOObGy6s
> 0jddD84ecErleKgCxZsA/31SQu4FON95s9XCOYJMy/OZGP4JRJ5PPCNNYZVParc1
> =fblR
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
I switched to Yahoo Mail. This should work.

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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

chanjp
In reply to this post by Henne Vogelsang-2
On Wednesday, 26 July 2017 17:17:57 +08 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

> Hey,
>
> On 26.07.2017 09:37, Carmen Bianca Bakker wrote:
> > Alternatively, consider not using Gmail.
>
> Shameless advertisement: A very decent alternative is provided by one of
> our openSUSE sponsors! -> https://mailbox.org/en/
>
> For just 1€/month you get everything you need for mail. Check it out :-)
>
> Henne
Oh wow, that's cheap. Kind of regret buying a 5-year package from an
Australian-based mail provider now, seeing as their government is on an anti-
encryption path.

I will definitely use it for my next project.

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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

Aleksa Sarai
>>> Alternatively, consider not using Gmail.
>>
>> Shameless advertisement: A very decent alternative is provided by one of
>> our openSUSE sponsors! -> https://mailbox.org/en/
>>
>> For just 1€/month you get everything you need for mail. Check it out :-)
>>
>> Henne
>
> Oh wow, that's cheap. Kind of regret buying a 5-year package from an
> Australian-based mail provider now, seeing as their government is on an anti-
> encryption path.

Not to mention that Australia is a member of the Five-Eyes, so I'm not
sure trusting us with your emails was a good idea. We don't even have
strong freedom of speech provisions.

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Software Engineer (Containers)
SUSE Linux GmbH
https://www.cyphar.com/
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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

Patrick Shanahan-2
In reply to this post by Roman Bysh-4
* Roman Bysh <[hidden email]> [07-26-17 08:45]:

> On 26/07/17 08:16 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >Hash: SHA256
> >
> >On 2017-07-26 09:37, Carmen Bianca Bakker wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, 25 July 2017 22:07:59 CEST Roman Bysh wrote:
> >>> I see. For now, I'll add BCC so that I can see the original
> >>> copy.
> >>
> >> Alternatively, consider not using Gmail.  You aren't only letting
> >> Google spy on your e-mails; you are also letting them spy and build
> >> a profile on everyone you talk to.
> >
> >Not an issue for mail lists ;-)
> >
> >- -- Cheers / Saludos,
> >
> >        Carlos E. R.
> >
> >   (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >Version: GnuPG v2
> >
> >iF4EAREIAAYFAll4iCcACgkQja8UbcUWM1yqJgD+IwJT2OTHB0+WclhqGOObGy6s
> >0jddD84ecErleKgCxZsA/31SQu4FON95s9XCOYJMy/OZGP4JRJ5PPCNNYZVParc1
> >=fblR
> >-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> I switched to Yahoo Mail. This should work.

good luck with that.  yahoo mail is less than terrible, restrictive,
unreliable, ...

at&t uses them and last night it broke, cert chk fails.

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http://en.opensuse.org    openSUSE Community Member    facebook/ptilopteri
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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

Roman Bysh-4
On 26/07/17 09:10 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

> * Roman Bysh <[hidden email]> [07-26-17 08:45]:
> > On 26/07/17 08:16 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >> Hash: SHA256
> >>
> >> On 2017-07-26 09:37, Carmen Bianca Bakker wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, 25 July 2017 22:07:59 CEST Roman Bysh wrote:
> >>>> I see. For now, I'll add BCC so that I can see the original
> >>>> copy.
> >>>
> >>> Alternatively, consider not using Gmail.  You aren't only letting
> >>> Google spy on your e-mails; you are also letting them spy and build
> >>> a profile on everyone you talk to.
> >>
> >> Not an issue for mail lists ;-)
> >>
> >> - -- Cheers / Saludos,
> >>
> >>         Carlos E. R.
> >>
> >>    (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))
> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >> Version: GnuPG v2
> >>
> >> iF4EAREIAAYFAll4iCcACgkQja8UbcUWM1yqJgD+IwJT2OTHB0+WclhqGOObGy6s
> >> 0jddD84ecErleKgCxZsA/31SQu4FON95s9XCOYJMy/OZGP4JRJ5PPCNNYZVParc1
> >> =fblR
> >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >>
> > I switched to Yahoo Mail. This should work.
>
> good luck with that.  yahoo mail is less than terrible, restrictive,
> unreliable, ...
>
> at&t uses them and last night it broke, cert chk fails.
>
I've been using it for the last 10 years without any problems with this ML.

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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

Stephan Kulow-3
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan-2
On 07/26/2017 03:10 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
.
>
> at&t uses them and last night it broke, cert chk fails.
>
Gosh. How on earth is this on topic for opensuse? STOP IT!

Greetings, Stephan

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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

Mykola Krachkovsky
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
вівторок, 25 липня 2017 р. 21:24:28 EEST Carlos E. R. написано:

> You are using gmail. With gmail you can *never* see your own post in
> the mail list, because gmail deletes it automatically. If you need
> feedback, use at the archive
> (https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory).
>
>
> Gmail has a feature that removes duplicate posts, looking at the
> message-id. The message that the list server sends to everybody has
> the same message-id than the one in your "sent" folder, it is
> considered duplicate and deleted. What you see is only your local
> "sent" copy.
>
> Similarly, if people reply to you with one post to the mail list and
> another direct to you, as the direct copy arrives faster (fewer hops),
> the copy from the mail list is considered a duplicate and also deleted.
I have never seen such problems. Though using GMail via KMail IMAP, not web
interface. And set up GMail filters for mail lists.

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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

Carlos E. R.-4
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 2017-07-26 15:26, Mykola Krachkovsky wrote:

> вівторок, 25 липня 2017 р. 21:24:28 EEST Carlos E. R. написано:
>> You are using gmail. With gmail you can *never* see your own post
>> in the mail list, because gmail deletes it automatically. If you
>> need feedback, use at the archive
>> (https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory).
>>
>>
>> Gmail has a feature that removes duplicate posts, looking at the
>> message-id. The message that the list server sends to everybody
>> has the same message-id than the one in your "sent" folder, it
>> is considered duplicate and deleted. What you see is only your
>> local "sent" copy.
>>
>> Similarly, if people reply to you with one post to the mail list
>> and another direct to you, as the direct copy arrives faster
>> (fewer hops), the copy from the mail list is considered a
>> duplicate and also deleted.
>
> I have never seen such problems. Though using GMail via KMail IMAP,
> not web interface. And set up GMail filters for mail lists.

Doesn't matter the client you use, gmail does that, known fact for ages.

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

  (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))
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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

Patrick Shanahan-2
In reply to this post by Roman Bysh-4
* Roman Bysh <[hidden email]> [07-26-17 09:22]:

> On 26/07/17 09:10 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> >* Roman Bysh <[hidden email]> [07-26-17 08:45]:
> >> On 26/07/17 08:16 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >>> Hash: SHA256
> >>>
> >>> On 2017-07-26 09:37, Carmen Bianca Bakker wrote:
> >>>> On Tuesday, 25 July 2017 22:07:59 CEST Roman Bysh wrote:
> >>>>> I see. For now, I'll add BCC so that I can see the original
> >>>>> copy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Alternatively, consider not using Gmail.  You aren't only letting
> >>>> Google spy on your e-mails; you are also letting them spy and build
> >>>> a profile on everyone you talk to.
> >>>
> >>> Not an issue for mail lists ;-)
> >>>
> >>> - -- Cheers / Saludos,
> >>>
> >>>         Carlos E. R.
> >>>
> >>>    (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))
> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >>> Version: GnuPG v2
> >>>
> >>> iF4EAREIAAYFAll4iCcACgkQja8UbcUWM1yqJgD+IwJT2OTHB0+WclhqGOObGy6s
> >>> 0jddD84ecErleKgCxZsA/31SQu4FON95s9XCOYJMy/OZGP4JRJ5PPCNNYZVParc1
> >>> =fblR
> >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >>>
> >> I switched to Yahoo Mail. This should work.
> >
> >good luck with that.  yahoo mail is less than terrible, restrictive,
> >unreliable, ...
> >
> >at&t uses them and last night it broke, cert chk fails.
> >
> I've been using it for the last 10 years without any problems with this ML.


last nite around 18:16 local time yahoo who provides att mail, arbitrarily
changed the imap address from imap.mail.att.net to imap.mail.yahoo.com w/o
notice, and stupid att tech support book readers who have no knowledge of
fetchmail or anything not web or in front of them in the book, don't know
anything about it.  they wanted to provide me with PAID support to solve
THEIR problem which I declined.  I for the fifth time requested elevated
support and a visit to the supervisor ensued.  thereafter I was notified
that they did know they had a problem and were working to correct it and
would possibly have a solution within 24 hours.

I then advised them that they paid tooooo much to their techs, and
provided the changed address and another unadvisable solution.

Paid support my ass!

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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

chanjp
In reply to this post by Aleksa Sarai
On Wednesday, 26 July 2017 21:07:02 +08 Aleksa Sarai wrote:

> >>> Alternatively, consider not using Gmail.
> >>
> >> Shameless advertisement: A very decent alternative is provided by one of
> >> our openSUSE sponsors! -> https://mailbox.org/en/
> >>
> >> For just 1€/month you get everything you need for mail. Check it out :-)
> >>
> >> Henne
> >
> > Oh wow, that's cheap. Kind of regret buying a 5-year package from an
> > Australian-based mail provider now, seeing as their government is on an
> > anti- encryption path.
>
> Not to mention that Australia is a member of the Five-Eyes, so I'm not
> sure trusting us with your emails was a good idea. We don't even have
> strong freedom of speech provisions.
I use Fastmail because of their commitment to user privacy, and them pointing
out that Australia does not have an equivalent of the USA's National Security
Letters. Also, I wasn't familiar with other email providers other than them
at the time, because I was once a free account user of their service.

They have a fairly admirable and straghtforward legalese-free privacy policy
as well, which I hope sidesteps any concern for freedom of speech or
expression if that has no relevance to customer privacy:
https://www.fastmail.com/about/privacy.html

Too bad about the Australian government though. But at this stage, I think
trusting any government with privacy in communications is a foolhardy venture
(speaking as a citizen of a government which loves to spy on its people).

Still, would be nice to vote with my wallet and use a service based in a
country that is more respectful of user privacy.

Anyway I have my GPG keys set up for more private correspondences. The
problem is convincing people to actually use GPG-based emails regularly!

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Re: Is there a problem with mail delay today?

Carmen Bianca Bakker
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
On Wednesday, 26 July 2017 14:16:39 CEST Carlos E. R. wrote:
> Not an issue for mail lists ;-)

You're not wrong :p

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Carmen Bianca Bakker <[hidden email]>
PGP: 2A09 F627 39F6 DEC8 CFFC  A216 CD0A 90F1 C5CA 0C92

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