How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

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How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

opensuse.lietuviu.kalba
Hi,

How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?
See image in https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/attachment.cgi?id=652120

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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

Martin Schlander
Lørdag den 24. oktober 2015 08:59:28 skrev opensuse.lietuviu.kalba:
> How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?
> See image in https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/attachment.cgi?id=652120

Translate the file "Patterns.[lang].po" in the LCN section of translations.

E.g. for DA:
http://svn.opensuse.org/viewvc/opensuse-i18n/trunk/lcn/da/po/patterns.da.po
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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

Stephan Kulow-3
Am 24.10.2015 um 17:04 schrieb Martin Schlander:
> Lørdag den 24. oktober 2015 08:59:28 skrev opensuse.lietuviu.kalba:
>> How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?
>> See image in https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/attachment.cgi?id=652120
>
> Translate the file "Patterns.[lang].po" in the LCN section of translations.
>
> E.g. for DA:
> http://svn.opensuse.org/viewvc/opensuse-i18n/trunk/lcn/da/po/patterns.da.po
>
That's incorrect - patterns are packages since 13.2 and should be
translated in the packages branch. I created a leap branch just for them

Greetings, Stephan

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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

opensuse.lietuviu.kalba
Thanks for information.
Can someone help to propertly initialize "lt" directory with *.po files?

2015.10.25 18:24, Stephan Kulow rašė:

> Am 24.10.2015 um 17:04 schrieb Martin Schlander:
>> Lørdag den 24. oktober 2015 08:59:28 skrev opensuse.lietuviu.kalba:
>>> How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?
>>> See image in https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/attachment.cgi?id=652120
>> Translate the file "Patterns.[lang].po" in the LCN section of translations.
>>
>> E.g. for DA:
>> http://svn.opensuse.org/viewvc/opensuse-i18n/trunk/lcn/da/po/patterns.da.po
>>
> That's incorrect - patterns are packages since 13.2 and should be
> translated in the packages branch. I created a leap branch just for them
>
> Greetings, Stephan
>

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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

Carlos E. R.-3
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On 2015-10-26 09:03, opensuse.lietuviu.kalba wrote:
> Thanks for information.
> Can someone help to propertly initialize "lt" directory with *.po files?


Something like this:

#!/bin/bash

F=`basename $1 .po`
FF=`basename $F .es`
POFILE=$FF.es.po
POTFILE=../../50-pot/$FF.pot

echo "$POFILE  and $POTFILE"

if test -f $POFILE -a -f $POTFILE; then
        echo Applying msgmerge to $POFILE
        #msgmerge --previous --no-wrap --force-po -U $POFILE -C ../../50-memory/memory.es.po $POTFILE
        msgmerge --previous --no-wrap --force-po -U $POFILE $POTFILE
        msgfmt --check --stat $POFILE
        rm messages.mo
else
        echo "Not found: " $POFILE or  $POTFILE
fi || { echo "msgmerge --no-wrap --force-po for \"$POTFILE\" failed" ; }


exit



This is what I use on the lcn directory, for Spanish. You will have to edit and adapt for your locale and for that new branch and directory.


Hum. No. There is a problem with the script: it does not initialize, but update.
I have to think more about it.

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                Carlos E. R.
                (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

Alexander Melentev
In reply to this post by Stephan Kulow-3
2015-10-25 19:24 GMT+03:00 Stephan Kulow <[hidden email]>:

> Am 24.10.2015 um 17:04 schrieb Martin Schlander:
>> Lørdag den 24. oktober 2015 08:59:28 skrev opensuse.lietuviu.kalba:
>>> How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?
>>> See image in https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/attachment.cgi?id=652120
>>
>> Translate the file "Patterns.[lang].po" in the LCN section of translations.
>>
>> E.g. for DA:
>> http://svn.opensuse.org/viewvc/opensuse-i18n/trunk/lcn/da/po/patterns.da.po
>>
> That's incorrect - patterns are packages since 13.2 and should be
> translated in the packages branch. I created a leap branch just for them
>
> Greetings, Stephan
Dear Stephan,
did I get you right that lcn/50-pot/patterns.pot and corresponding
*.po files are useless at least for trunk and 13.2? If yes, why are
they still there? Does it make sense to drop them?
Are we (community translators) expected to translate also this leap branch?

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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

Alexander Melentev
In reply to this post by opensuse.lietuviu.kalba
2015-10-26 11:03 GMT+03:00 opensuse.lietuviu.kalba
<[hidden email]>:
> Thanks for information.
> Can someone help to propertly initialize "lt" directory with *.po files?
I can do it for you later today if needed. Or do you want just a
proper script/instructions?


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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

opensuse.lietuviu.kalba
It would be nice, if you could do this job !

2015.10.26 17:02, Alexander Melentev rašė:
>
> I can do it for you later today if needed. Or do you want just a
> proper script/instructions?
>
>

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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

Alexander Melentev
2015-10-26 18:04 GMT+03:00 opensuse.lietuviu.kalba
<[hidden email]>:
> It would be nice, if you could do this job !
>
>
> 2015.10.26 17:02, Alexander Melentev rašė:
>>
>>
>> I can do it for you later today if needed. Or do you want just a
>> proper script/instructions?
>>
Enjoy those newly created files. (note a beatiful revision number =) )
minton@samsunglaptop:~/Translations/opensuse-i18n/branches/openSUSE-Leap-42_1-Branch>
svn ci -m "lt language initialized"
Adding         packages/lt
Adding         packages/lt/po
Adding         packages/lt/po/base1.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/base2.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/dvd1.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/dvd2.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/dvd3.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/dvd4.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/dvd5.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/dvd6.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/dvd7.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/dvd8.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/factory1.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/factory2.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/factory3.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/factory4.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/factory5.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/factory6.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/factory7.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/factory8.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/factory9.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/gnome.lt.po
Adding         packages/lt/po/kde.lt.po
Transmitting file data .....................done
Committing transaction...
Committed revision 94000.

The same was done for trunk, just in case you'll want some sync.
P.S. Translation of packages in trunk branch can also be done in
Transifex: https://www.transifex.com/minton/openSUSE-packages/
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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

opensuse.lietuviu.kalba
Thank you very much!

2015.10.26 18:12, Alexander Melentev rašė:

> 2015-10-26 18:04 GMT+03:00 opensuse.lietuviu.kalba
> <[hidden email]>:
>> It would be nice, if you could do this job !
>>
>>
>> 2015.10.26 17:02, Alexander Melentev rašė:
>>>
>>> I can do it for you later today if needed. Or do you want just a
>>> proper script/instructions?
>>>
> Enjoy those newly created files. (note a beatiful revision number =) )
> minton@samsunglaptop:~/Translations/opensuse-i18n/branches/openSUSE-Leap-42_1-Branch>
> svn ci -m "lt language initialized"
> Adding         packages/lt
> Adding         packages/lt/po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/base1.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/base2.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/dvd1.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/dvd2.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/dvd3.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/dvd4.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/dvd5.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/dvd6.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/dvd7.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/dvd8.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/factory1.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/factory2.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/factory3.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/factory4.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/factory5.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/factory6.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/factory7.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/factory8.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/factory9.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/gnome.lt.po
> Adding         packages/lt/po/kde.lt.po
> Transmitting file data .....................done
> Committing transaction...
> Committed revision 94000.
>
> The same was done for trunk, just in case you'll want some sync.
> P.S. Translation of packages in trunk branch can also be done in
> Transifex: https://www.transifex.com/minton/openSUSE-packages/

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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

Stephan Kulow-3
In reply to this post by Alexander Melentev
On 26.10.2015 15:59, Alexander Melentev wrote:

> did I get you right that lcn/50-pot/patterns.pot and corresponding
> *.po files are useless at least for trunk and 13.2? If yes, why are
> they still there? Does it make sense to drop them?
They are not useless as they contain valid translations - to be moved to
the packages PO files.

> Are we (community translators) expected to translate also this leap branch?
>
Only if you want translated package summary and descriptions (including
patterns).

Greetings, Stephan
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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

Alexander Melentev
2015-10-27 11:08 GMT+03:00 Stephan Kulow <[hidden email]>:
> On 26.10.2015 15:59, Alexander Melentev wrote:
>
>> did I get you right that lcn/50-pot/patterns.pot and corresponding
>> *.po files are useless at least for trunk and 13.2? If yes, why are
>> they still there? Does it make sense to drop them?
> They are not useless as they contain valid translations - to be moved to
> the packages PO files.
OK, but that raises much bigger question: what should be done with
non-existent languages? I can push the translations from patterns.*.po
to corresponding files in packages branch, but there are around 60
languages in lcn, while only a dozen is available in packages.
What is the current policy about adding languages to the packages branch?

>> Are we (community translators) expected to translate also this leap branch?
>>
> Only if you want translated package summary and descriptions (including
> patterns).
Actually, that's the very basic reason we translate something at all:
we want to see it localized =) Do the packages lists in Leap and
Tumbleweed differ that much to create a separate branch? I expect a
reasonably small list of unique messages, so maybe it could make more
sense to add a separate file of those differences to trunk rather than
creating a separate almost identical branch just for Leap packages
(cause it will require the manual messages syncing from translators).
Knowing the correct way of getting the fresh sources and pushing
translations back for actual usage in repos would really help to
justify the options and even estimate the automation of this process.


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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

Stephan Kulow-3
On 27.10.2015 11:38, Alexander Melentev wrote:

> 2015-10-27 11:08 GMT+03:00 Stephan Kulow <[hidden email]>:
>> On 26.10.2015 15:59, Alexander Melentev wrote:
>>
>>> did I get you right that lcn/50-pot/patterns.pot and corresponding
>>> *.po files are useless at least for trunk and 13.2? If yes, why are
>>> they still there? Does it make sense to drop them?
>> They are not useless as they contain valid translations - to be moved to
>> the packages PO files.
> OK, but that raises much bigger question: what should be done with
> non-existent languages? I can push the translations from patterns.*.po
> to corresponding files in packages branch, but there are around 60
> languages in lcn, while only a dozen is available in packages.
> What is the current policy about adding languages to the packages branch?
>
>>> Are we (community translators) expected to translate also this leap branch?
>>>
>> Only if you want translated package summary and descriptions (including
>> patterns).
> Actually, that's the very basic reason we translate something at all:
> we want to see it localized =) Do the packages lists in Leap and
> Tumbleweed differ that much to create a separate branch? I expect a
> reasonably small list of unique messages, so maybe it could make more
> sense to add a separate file of those differences to trunk rather than
> creating a separate almost identical branch just for Leap packages
> (cause it will require the manual messages syncing from translators).

That would be cool, but I lack the time to do that properly - so I
created a branch

Greetings, Stephan



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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

Carlos E. R.-3
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On 2015-10-27 12:30, Stephan Kulow wrote:

> That would be cool, but I lack the time to do that properly - so I
> created a branch

It is unmanageable. I see 86028 messages, with 14814 fuzzy and 60813
untranslated, for "es". With this size, we can't keep translated all
branches by hand.

We would need something to translate a single branch and automatically
do the rest.

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

Luiz Fernando Ranghetti-2
2015-10-27 13:11 GMT-02:00 Carlos E. R. <[hidden email]>:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 2015-10-27 12:30, Stephan Kulow wrote:
>
>> That would be cool, but I lack the time to do that properly - so I
>> created a branch
>
> It is unmanageable. I see 86028 messages, with 14814 fuzzy and 60813
> untranslated, for "es". With this size, we can't keep translated all
> branches by hand.
>
> We would need something to translate a single branch and automatically
> do the rest.
>
> - --
> Cheers / Saludos,
>
>                 Carlos E. R.
>                 (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

Hi,

If I didn't understand wrong, this is one of the benefits of weblate.

Regards,

Luiz
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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

Karl Ove Hufthammer
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-3
Den 27. okt. 2015 16:11, Carlos E. R. skreiv:

> On 2015-10-27 12:30, Stephan Kulow wrote:
>
>> >That would be cool, but I lack the time to do that properly - so I
>> >created a branch
> It is unmanageable. I see 86028 messages, with 14814 fuzzy and 60813
> untranslated, for "es". With this size, we can't keep translated all
> branches by hand.
>
> We would need something to translate a single branch and automatically
> do the rest.

Then let me offer you the summit workflow, as I’ve talked about before:

http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-translation/2015-07/msg00004.html

I currently use it for translating openSUSE, and it works *very well*.
Whenever a new branch is added, it’s only a single line to add to a
config file to handle it. Strings are automatically collected from, and
scattered to, the various branches.

Regarding the package description files, I also plan to do some changes
to make my life (and that of other translators that wish to use the
summit workflow) easier. Currently, strings are split over several
files, e.g. dvd1.po, dvd2.po, …, dvd8.po. I’m not sure what system is
used, but it looks the strings are sorted by application name and then
split. If so, this means that strings may move between files between
updates/releases/branches (e.g. the strings for application foo may be
in dvd1.po today and in dvd2.po tomorrow, and perhaps in dvd3.po in a
different branch). This obviously makes the translators’ works harder,
so in the summit I’ll merge all the files that belong together into
larger files (e.g. dvd.po, base.po, factory.po, gnome.po and kde.po).

Also, for some strange reason the strings are sorted alphabetically by
content *within* files. That means that the name for package ‘foo’ can
be in the beginning of the file, while its description will be at the
end of the file, and strings for subpackages (foo-devel, foo-lib,
foo-bar, foo-baz etc.) that belong together are scattered *all over the*
file. This obviously makes it much harder both to translate the strings
(you have no context!) and to ensure consistency and high quality
translations. My plan here is to add ‘fake’ file name reference comments
to each string, based on the package name (which luckily *is* included
in the files, as comments) and the type of string (package name,
description, …), and then to run ‘msgcat --sort-by-file’ on the
resulting files. These comments will of course only be visible in the
‘summit’ folder, not in any of the branch folders.

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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

Carlos E. R.-3
In reply to this post by Luiz Fernando Ranghetti-2
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On 2015-10-27 17:16, Luiz Fernando Ranghetti wrote:

> Hi,
>
> If I didn't understand wrong, this is one of the benefits of
> weblate.

Yes, could be.

On the other hand... when we started translating (Spanish), I remember
doing about the entire packages files, a few people. But on the next
round almost all our translations had disappeared! We had to start
again from scratch, and most of us refused, discouraged.

I think there is a conflict with upstream translations, I don't
remember for sure.

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

Carlos E. R.-3
In reply to this post by Karl Ove Hufthammer
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On 2015-10-27 17:26, Karl Ove Hufthammer wrote:

> I currently use it for translating openSUSE, and it works *very
> well*. Whenever a new branch is added, it’s only a single line to
> add to a config file to handle it. Strings are automatically
> collected from, and scattered to, the various branches.

Interesting.


> Regarding the package description files, I also plan to do some
> changes to make my life (and that of other translators that wish to
> use the summit workflow) easier. Currently, strings are split over
> several files, e.g. dvd1.po, dvd2.po, …, dvd8.po. I’m not sure what
> system is used, but it looks the strings are sorted by application
> name and then split. If so, this means that strings may move
> between files between updates/releases/branches (e.g. the strings
> for application foo may be in dvd1.po today and in dvd2.po
> tomorrow, and perhaps in dvd3.po in a different branch). This
> obviously makes the translators’ works harder, so in the summit
> I’ll merge all the files that belong together into larger files
> (e.g. dvd.po, base.po, factory.po, gnome.po and kde.po).

I think that initially it was a few but huge files, that had to be
broken in pieces to divide the work for several people to work at the
same time, then joined again for submission.


>
> Also, for some strange reason the strings are sorted alphabetically
> by content *within* files. That means that the name for package
> ‘foo’ can be in the beginning of the file, while its description
> will be at the end of the file, and strings for subpackages
> (foo-devel, foo-lib, foo-bar, foo-baz etc.) that belong together
> are scattered *all over the* file. This obviously makes it much
> harder both to translate the strings (you have no context!)

Indeed!

But I think this should better be done upstream. I don't know how the
files are generated, but there has to be a source for them, common to
all distributions.

- --
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.

  (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith))
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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

Alexander Melentev
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-3
2015-10-28 3:57 GMT+03:00 Carlos E. R. <[hidden email]>:
> On the other hand... when we started translating (Spanish), I remember
> doing about the entire packages files, a few people. But on the next
> round almost all our translations had disappeared! We had to start
> again from scratch, and most of us refused, discouraged.
>
> I think there is a conflict with upstream translations, I don't
> remember for sure.
Carlos, can you please remember when this has happened? I mean, when
have you committed fully translated files. I'm not asking for revision
number, but at least a rough estimation of date to narrow my search.
Then I'll try to resurrect them and also push to Leap.


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Re: How to translate patterns in YaST software manager?

Alexander Melentev
In reply to this post by Stephan Kulow-3
2015-10-27 14:30 GMT+03:00 Stephan Kulow <[hidden email]>:

>>>> Are we (community translators) expected to translate also this leap branch?
>>>>
>>> Only if you want translated package summary and descriptions (including
>>> patterns).
>> Actually, that's the very basic reason we translate something at all:
>> we want to see it localized =) Do the packages lists in Leap and
>> Tumbleweed differ that much to create a separate branch? I expect a
>> reasonably small list of unique messages, so maybe it could make more
>> sense to add a separate file of those differences to trunk rather than
>> creating a separate almost identical branch just for Leap packages
>> (cause it will require the manual messages syncing from translators).
>
> That would be cool, but I lack the time to do that properly - so I
> created a branch
Sure, that's understandable. But as a matter of fact we can do it for
you, cause we mess with translation files all the time and you have
other things to do. If you wish we will handle the translation files
in a way which is more comfortable for translators.
The only thing we miss in this case is actual knowledge about
procedures of getting the latest package descriptions and pushing
translations for actual usage. Does it require access to some internal
resources or it can be established for community translators also? I
know it should be technically possible after I got an account on
i18n.opensuse.org instance.
With some guidance from your side we could make each other's lifes easier :)

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