Heads up: llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 going away

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Heads up: llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 going away

İsmail Dönmez-2
Hi!

Since llvm4 hit the Factory, I'd like to remove llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 (along with
lldb3_8 and lldb3_9) from Factory to lower the maintenance burden. Is there
anyone who needs these packages for some reason please speak up now.

Regards,
ismail

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Re: Heads up: llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 going away

Marc Dietrich-3
Am Dienstag, 18. April 2017, 14:07:09 CEST schrieb İsmail Dönmez:
> Hi!
>
> Since llvm4 hit the Factory, I'd like to remove llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 (along
> with lldb3_8 and lldb3_9) from Factory to lower the maintenance burden. Is
> there anyone who needs these packages for some reason please speak up now.

I don't need older versions, but maybe you could keep at least llvm3_9 (or the
previous version) in order to make the transition easier. I often compile mesa
from trunk, and pulling llvm3_9 under its feet makes me feel uncomfortable.

Marc

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Re: Heads up: llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 going away

İsmail Dönmez-2
Hi,

On 19 Apr 13:46, Marc Dietrich wrote:

> Am Dienstag, 18. April 2017, 14:07:09 CEST schrieb İsmail Dönmez:
> > Hi!
> >
> > Since llvm4 hit the Factory, I'd like to remove llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 (along
> > with lldb3_8 and lldb3_9) from Factory to lower the maintenance burden. Is
> > there anyone who needs these packages for some reason please speak up now.
>
> I don't need older versions, but maybe you could keep at least llvm3_9 (or the
> previous version) in order to make the transition easier. I often compile mesa
> from trunk, and pulling llvm3_9 under its feet makes me feel uncomfortable.
Sure, we can keep it there for some more time, until 4.1 and such.

Regards,
ismail

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Re: Heads up: llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 going away

Marc Dietrich-3
Hi Ismail,

Am Mittwoch, 19. April 2017, 13:54:17 CEST schrieb İsmail Dönmez:

> Hi,
>
> On 19 Apr 13:46, Marc Dietrich wrote:
> > Am Dienstag, 18. April 2017, 14:07:09 CEST schrieb İsmail Dönmez:
> > > Hi!
> > >
> > > Since llvm4 hit the Factory, I'd like to remove llvm3_8 and llvm3_9
> > > (along
> > > with lldb3_8 and lldb3_9) from Factory to lower the maintenance burden.
> > > Is
> > > there anyone who needs these packages for some reason please speak up
> > > now.
> >
> > I don't need older versions, but maybe you could keep at least llvm3_9 (or
> > the previous version) in order to make the transition easier. I often
> > compile mesa from trunk, and pulling llvm3_9 under its feet makes me feel
> > uncomfortable.
> Sure, we can keep it there for some more time, until 4.1 and such.
great! This also facilitates testing of llvm bugs. Thanks!

Marc


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Re: Heads up: llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 going away

Ondřej Súkup
In reply to this post by İsmail Dönmez-2
for future LTS version of ghc we need on aarch64 llvm-3.9 :(

thanks.

On 19 April 2017 at 13:54, İsmail Dönmez <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 19 Apr 13:46, Marc Dietrich wrote:
>> Am Dienstag, 18. April 2017, 14:07:09 CEST schrieb İsmail Dönmez:
>> > Hi!
>> >
>> > Since llvm4 hit the Factory, I'd like to remove llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 (along
>> > with lldb3_8 and lldb3_9) from Factory to lower the maintenance burden. Is
>> > there anyone who needs these packages for some reason please speak up now.
>>
>> I don't need older versions, but maybe you could keep at least llvm3_9 (or the
>> previous version) in order to make the transition easier. I often compile mesa
>> from trunk, and pulling llvm3_9 under its feet makes me feel uncomfortable.
>
> Sure, we can keep it there for some more time, until 4.1 and such.
>
> Regards,
> ismail
>
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Re: Heads up: llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 going away

İsmail Dönmez-2
On 19 Apr 14:17, Ondřej Súkup wrote:
> for future LTS version of ghc we need on aarch64 llvm-3.9 :(

That's ok, we'll just need to fix the build with gcc7 and it should be fine.
Thanks for the heads up.

Regards,
ismail

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Re: Heads up: llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 going away

Andreas Färber
In reply to this post by İsmail Dönmez-2
Hi İsmail,

Am 19.04.2017 um 13:54 schrieb İsmail Dönmez:

> On 19 Apr 13:46, Marc Dietrich wrote:
>> Am Dienstag, 18. April 2017, 14:07:09 CEST schrieb İsmail Dönmez:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> Since llvm4 hit the Factory, I'd like to remove llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 (along
>>> with lldb3_8 and lldb3_9) from Factory to lower the maintenance burden. Is
>>> there anyone who needs these packages for some reason please speak up now.
>>
>> I don't need older versions, but maybe you could keep at least llvm3_9 (or the
>> previous version) in order to make the transition easier. I often compile mesa
>> from trunk, and pulling llvm3_9 under its feet makes me feel uncomfortable.
>
> Sure, we can keep it there for some more time, until 4.1 and such.

Another concern is that llvm4 failed to build on armv7l and armv6l.
armv6l is a known QEMU/glibc problem, whereas armv7l hopefully just
needs to be retriggered. (Dirk? Andreas?)

https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/openSUSE:Factory:ARM/llvm4

llvm3_9 is showing build errors for aarch64 and armv6l, but at least
there's binaries available that other packages can build against.

In general the non-x86 archs may be slower at building sometimes, so
please check :PowerPC and :zSystems too before making removal decisions
for such a key package as llvm.

https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/openSUSE:Factory:PowerPC/llvm4
https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/openSUSE:Factory:zSystems/llvm4

Thanks,
Andreas

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Re: Heads up: llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 going away

İsmail Dönmez-2
On 19 Apr 16:05, Andreas Färber wrote:

> Hi İsmail,
>
> Am 19.04.2017 um 13:54 schrieb İsmail Dönmez:
> > On 19 Apr 13:46, Marc Dietrich wrote:
> >> Am Dienstag, 18. April 2017, 14:07:09 CEST schrieb İsmail Dönmez:
> >>> Hi!
> >>>
> >>> Since llvm4 hit the Factory, I'd like to remove llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 (along
> >>> with lldb3_8 and lldb3_9) from Factory to lower the maintenance burden. Is
> >>> there anyone who needs these packages for some reason please speak up now.
> >>
> >> I don't need older versions, but maybe you could keep at least llvm3_9 (or the
> >> previous version) in order to make the transition easier. I often compile mesa
> >> from trunk, and pulling llvm3_9 under its feet makes me feel uncomfortable.
> >
> > Sure, we can keep it there for some more time, until 4.1 and such.
>
> Another concern is that llvm4 failed to build on armv7l and armv6l.
> armv6l is a known QEMU/glibc problem, whereas armv7l hopefully just
> needs to be retriggered. (Dirk? Andreas?)
>
> https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/openSUSE:Factory:ARM/llvm4
I know about the qemu problem, and locally armv7l gave the same problem hence
there is no way for me to debug it.

> llvm3_9 is showing build errors for aarch64 and armv6l, but at least
> there's binaries available that other packages can build against.
>
> In general the non-x86 archs may be slower at building sometimes, so
> please check :PowerPC and :zSystems too before making removal decisions
> for such a key package as llvm.
>
> https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/openSUSE:Factory:PowerPC/llvm4
> https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/openSUSE:Factory:zSystems/llvm4

I always keep an eye on SystemZ and PPC64{LE} and unlike ARM they are 99% of the
time is stable.

Regards,
ismail

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HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)  

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Re: Heads up: llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 going away

todd rme
In reply to this post by İsmail Dönmez-2
On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 7:54 AM, İsmail Dönmez <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 19 Apr 13:46, Marc Dietrich wrote:
>> Am Dienstag, 18. April 2017, 14:07:09 CEST schrieb İsmail Dönmez:
>> > Hi!
>> >
>> > Since llvm4 hit the Factory, I'd like to remove llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 (along
>> > with lldb3_8 and lldb3_9) from Factory to lower the maintenance burden. Is
>> > there anyone who needs these packages for some reason please speak up now.
>>
>> I don't need older versions, but maybe you could keep at least llvm3_9 (or the
>> previous version) in order to make the transition easier. I often compile mesa
>> from trunk, and pulling llvm3_9 under its feet makes me feel uncomfortable.
>
> Sure, we can keep it there for some more time, until 4.1 and such.

Maybe have as a general rule that Factory keeps the current LLVM
version and the immediate previous LLVM version. So now that 4 is out
3.8 will be dropped, 3.9 will be dropped when 4.1 is out, and so on.
Of course if there is a specific need for specific versions those can
be kept on a case-by-case basis.

And I assume the old versions will not be deleted from
devel:tools:compiler as long as they still build, right?
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Re: Heads up: llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 going away

Dirk Müller
In reply to this post by İsmail Dönmez-2
On 19.04.2017 16:08, İsmail Dönmez wrote:

Hi ismail, Andreas,

>> Another concern is that llvm4 failed to build on armv7l and armv6l.
>> armv6l is a known QEMU/glibc problem, whereas armv7l hopefully just
>> needs to be retriggered. (Dirk? Andreas?)

I don't think this is a retrigger issue.

>> In general the non-x86 archs may be slower at building sometimes, so
>> please check :PowerPC and :zSystems too before making removal decisions
>> for such a key package as llvm.

Ismail did actually reach out to the various folks on the ARM team to
get help have llvm building again for the ARM platforms.

>> https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/openSUSE:Factory:PowerPC/llvm4
>> https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/openSUSE:Factory:zSystems/llvm4
> I always keep an eye on SystemZ and PPC64{LE} and unlike ARM they are 99% of the
> time is stable.

I believe the issue with llvm4 is arm_suse_support.diff which got
dropped on the 3.9/4 update. I'm going to readd that and submit it if it
works.

Greetings,
Dirk

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Re: Heads up: llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 going away

Andreas Färber
Hi Dirk,

Am 19.04.2017 um 17:12 schrieb Dirk Müller:

> On 19.04.2017 16:08, İsmail Dönmez wrote:
>>> Another concern is that llvm4 failed to build on armv7l and armv6l.
>>> armv6l is a known QEMU/glibc problem, whereas armv7l hopefully just
>>> needs to be retriggered. (Dirk? Andreas?)
>
> I don't think this is a retrigger issue.
>
>>> In general the non-x86 archs may be slower at building sometimes, so
>>> please check :PowerPC and :zSystems too before making removal decisions
>>> for such a key package as llvm.
>
> Ismail did actually reach out to the various folks on the ARM team to
> get help have llvm building again for the ARM platforms.

Note that I'm not blaming Ismail for build failures here.

My point was in response to "hit the Factory" and "until 4.1" that you
stripped from the quote above:

The decision to drop llvm3_9 from Factory should not be based on the
pure _submission_ of llvm4 (or future llvm4_1) - the decision should
also incorporate actual _build status_ please.

As long as llvm4 hasn't built once, the new llvm remains unresolvable,
and thus old llvm binaries continue to point at llvm3_9. Thus removal of
llvm3_9 would break e.g. Mesa and everything that depends on it for the
specific architecture. Having the old llvm still around may break the
build of new packages that expect certain new llvm4 features for
suse_version > 1320, like my pending Mesa submission, but it will still
allow installation of dependent packages. (I figured it made the most
sense to add new stuff to the new version, but I could backport my
changes to llvm3_9 if needed for build sanity.)

Since we do have llvm3_9 built, I have no objections to dropping llvm3_8.

None of this really matters for lldb as presumed leaf package, but I
understood it is against Factory policy/scripts to drop links for spec
files still contained in another Factory package.

> I believe the issue with llvm4 is arm_suse_support.diff which got dropped
> on the 3.9/4 update. I'm going to readd that and submit it if it works.

Thanks for looking into the armv7l breakage!

Regards,
Andreas

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Re: Heads up: llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 going away

Dirk Müller
On 19.04.2017 18:22, Andreas Färber wrote:

Hi Andreas,

> The decision to drop llvm3_9 from Factory should not be based on the
> pure _submission_ of llvm4 (or future llvm4_1) - the decision should
> also incorporate actual _build status_ please.

Right, and I just provided the context that Ismail was aware that the
new llvm is not building and that might become a problem (it was part of
the initial reachout-for-help email).


Greetings,
Dirk
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Re: Heads up: llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 going away

İsmail Dönmez-2
In reply to this post by todd rme
On 19 Apr 10:25, Todd Rme wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 7:54 AM, İsmail Dönmez <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 19 Apr 13:46, Marc Dietrich wrote:
> >> Am Dienstag, 18. April 2017, 14:07:09 CEST schrieb İsmail Dönmez:
> >> > Hi!
> >> >
> >> > Since llvm4 hit the Factory, I'd like to remove llvm3_8 and llvm3_9 (along
> >> > with lldb3_8 and lldb3_9) from Factory to lower the maintenance burden. Is
> >> > there anyone who needs these packages for some reason please speak up now.
> >>
> >> I don't need older versions, but maybe you could keep at least llvm3_9 (or the
> >> previous version) in order to make the transition easier. I often compile mesa
> >> from trunk, and pulling llvm3_9 under its feet makes me feel uncomfortable.
> >
> > Sure, we can keep it there for some more time, until 4.1 and such.
>
> Maybe have as a general rule that Factory keeps the current LLVM
> version and the immediate previous LLVM version. So now that 4 is out
> 3.8 will be dropped, 3.9 will be dropped when 4.1 is out, and so on.
> Of course if there is a specific need for specific versions those can
> be kept on a case-by-case basis.
Yes that makes sense. Let's follow that rule.

> And I assume the old versions will not be deleted from
> devel:tools:compiler as long as they still build, right?

Sure, why not.

Regards,
ismail

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