Found some feedback on reddit

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Found some feedback on reddit

Fabian Vogt
Hi everyone,

on reddit I came across this topic which resulted in some interesting feedback
from former and current users (only slightly KDE related):

https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/7azp43/kde_plasma_praise_report/dpe3lol/

Any ideas what can be done to fix the mentioned issues?

Cheers,
Fabian
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Re: Found some feedback on reddit

Richard Brown
The "issues" seem vague, and without logs/traces or other actionable
information I think any efforts to 'fix' them would be akin to
shooting in the dark, in a windowless room, while wearing a blindfold.

This is one of those cases where bug reports are really necessary.

On 6 November 2017 at 09:33, Fabian Vogt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> on reddit I came across this topic which resulted in some interesting feedback
> from former and current users (only slightly KDE related):
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/7azp43/kde_plasma_praise_report/dpe3lol/
>
> Any ideas what can be done to fix the mentioned issues?
>
> Cheers,
> Fabian
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Re: Found some feedback on reddit

Patrick Shanahan-2
* Richard Brown <[hidden email]> [11-06-17 03:41]:

> The "issues" seem vague, and without logs/traces or other actionable
> information I think any efforts to 'fix' them would be akin to
> shooting in the dark, in a windowless room, while wearing a blindfold.
>
> This is one of those cases where bug reports are really necessary.
>
> On 6 November 2017 at 09:33, Fabian Vogt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > on reddit I came across this topic which resulted in some interesting feedback
> > from former and current users (only slightly KDE related):
> >
> > https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/7azp43/kde_plasma_praise_report/dpe3lol/
> >
> > Any ideas what can be done to fix the mentioned issues?

so we resort to top posting and don't even bother to remove the sig.

and probably did not even bother to read the first cited msg/"issues" which
contained reference to six bug reports.  the poster definitely did not
like openSUSE, nor make an effort to find explanations for his "issues",
past citing bug reports.

if one is inclined to slam a post, at least the "facts" should be
accurate.

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Re: Found some feedback on reddit

Daniele
In reply to this post by Fabian Vogt
Il 06/11/2017 09:33, Fabian Vogt ha scritto:
> Hi everyone,
>
> on reddit I came across this topic which resulted in some interesting feedback
> from former and current users (only slightly KDE related):
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/7azp43/kde_plasma_praise_report/dpe3lol/
>
> Any ideas what can be done to fix the mentioned issues?
Fix btrfs would be a good start ;)
Daniele.


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Re: Found some feedback on reddit

Richard Brown
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan-2
On 6 November 2017 at 14:20, Patrick Shanahan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> so we resort to top posting and don't even bother to remove the sig.

My apologies - I posted before my morning coffee, made my formatting a
little sloppy it seems.
Hopefully this post and the many others I do make it obvious that is
not a common problem for me

> and probably did not even bother to read the first cited msg/"issues" which
> contained reference to six bug reports.  the poster definitely did not
> like openSUSE, nor make an effort to find explanations for his "issues",
> past citing bug reports.

While I think it would have been useful if Fabian linked to the
specific comment in question, rather than a whole thread, I did read
the thread, in full, as far as I can see.

However, the post you reference was written by someone which has been
blocked to me on reddit for the last 4 months after I got tired of the
individuals trolling. As the individual is blocked, I did not see the
persons post until your reply made it obvious I was missing something.

I would have noticed the inconsistency if the post had been direct linked also.

Thank you for clearing that up.

> if one is inclined to slam a post, at least the "facts" should be
> accurate.

Indeed, I agree.

But on a platform like reddit where subreddit moderation, shadow
banning, and self-moderation are all commonplace, I think it's
reasonable to assume that not everyone will always have as a complete
a view of the 'facts' as, lets say if the pertinent data had been
copy/pasted in the OP's mail.

Regards,
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Re: Found some feedback on reddit

Michal Kubecek
In reply to this post by Daniele
On Mon, Nov 06, 2017 at 05:39:50PM +0100, Daniele wrote:

> Il 06/11/2017 09:33, Fabian Vogt ha scritto:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > on reddit I came across this topic which resulted in some
> > interesting feedback from former and current users (only slightly
> > KDE related):
> >
> > https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/7azp43/kde_plasma_praise_report/dpe3lol/
> >
> > Any ideas what can be done to fix the mentioned issues?
>
> Fix btrfs would be a good start ;)
> Daniele.

Great idea, let's fix btrfs, I wonder why nobody thought of it before.
And once we fix it, we should fix networking, memory management,
scheduler, ... Don't forget about security vulnerabilities, those should
be definitely fixed, too. And then we will all live happily ever after.

Michal Kubeček

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Re: Found some feedback on reddit

Daniele
Il 06/11/2017 19:36, Michal Kubecek ha scritto:

> On Mon, Nov 06, 2017 at 05:39:50PM +0100, Daniele wrote:
>> Il 06/11/2017 09:33, Fabian Vogt ha scritto:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> on reddit I came across this topic which resulted in some
>>> interesting feedback from former and current users (only slightly
>>> KDE related):
>>>
>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/7azp43/kde_plasma_praise_report/dpe3lol/
>>>
>>> Any ideas what can be done to fix the mentioned issues?
>>
>> Fix btrfs would be a good start ;)
>> Daniele.
>
> Great idea, let's fix btrfs, I wonder why nobody thought of it before.
> And once we fix it, we should fix networking, memory management,
> scheduler, ... Don't forget about security vulnerabilities, those should
> be definitely fixed, too. And then we will all live happily ever after.
>
> Michal Kubeček
>

I don't understand your sarcasm here. Btrfs, makes system unuseable
while rebalancing.. it's a well known issue (since years).
Sometimes I ask myself "why suse/opensuse is the only distribution with
btrfs ?".

Daniele.
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Re: Found some feedback on reddit

Robert Kaiser
Daniele schrieb:
> I don't understand your sarcasm here. Btrfs, makes system unuseable
> while rebalancing.. it's a well known issue (since years).

I've been using btrfs as may main filesystem for ages and even when I
rebalance manually, which I do every now and then, I never saw the whole
system freeze up in any bad way, so not sure what you are talking about.

KaiRo
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Re: Found some feedback on reddit

Daniele
Il 06/11/2017 20:52, Robert Kaiser ha scritto:
> Daniele schrieb:
>> I don't understand your sarcasm here. Btrfs, makes system unuseable
>> while rebalancing.. it's a well known issue (since years).
>
> I've been using btrfs as may main filesystem for ages and even when I
> rebalance manually, which I do every now and then, I never saw the whole
> system freeze up in any bad way, so not sure what you are talking about.
>
> KaiRo

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1064249
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1063638
But the problem it's not new. Debated in this ml few time.
For me, just yesterday, pc unuseable, Sysrq->reboot.
I'm using btrfs only on a test machine..

Oh, Google is your friend ;)
Daniele.
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Re: Found some feedback on reddit

Aleksa Sarai
In reply to this post by Robert Kaiser
On 11/07/2017 06:52 AM, Robert Kaiser wrote:
> Daniele schrieb:
>> I don't understand your sarcasm here. Btrfs, makes system unuseable
>> while rebalancing.. it's a well known issue (since years).
>
> I've been using btrfs as may main filesystem for ages and even when I
> rebalance manually, which I do every now and then, I never saw the whole
> system freeze up in any bad way, so not sure what you are talking about.

I've seen the entire system stall for several minutes (system load goes
from ~1 to ~12, and becomes very sluggish) during the scheduled
rebalance. However, I haven't seen this happen recently, which tells me
that the long-standing qgroup performance problems have probably been
resolved in newer kernels.

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Re: Found some feedback on reddit

Erico
In reply to this post by Fabian Vogt
Hi Fabian

I also had this problem.

Plasma lags and freezes.

The solution was disable quota on btrfs according btrfs-progs documentation
bellow.

sudo btrfs quota disable /

Regards

=====

References:

LEAP 42.2 btrfs process uses 50% of processor and lags everything
https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/523513-btrfs-process-uses-50-of-processor-and-lags-everything?p=2814801#post2814801
https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/523513-btrfs-process-uses-50-of-processor-and-lags-everything?p=2831469#post2831469

=====

Problems with btrfs quota : btrfs
https://www.reddit.com/r/btrfs/comments/4qz1qd/problems_with_btrfs_quota/d4xgl18/

btrfs-progs/Documentation/btrfs-quota.asciidoc
https://github.com/kdave/btrfs-progs/blob/devel/Documentation/btrfs-quota.asciidoc

PERFORMANCE IMPLICATIONS
When the quotas are turned on, they affect all extent processing, taking a
performance hit.
It is not recommended to turn on qgroups unless the user intends to actually
use them.




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Re: Found some feedback on reddit

Oliver Kurz-2
In reply to this post by Daniele
On Monday, 6 November 2017 22:24:47 CET Daniele wrote:

> Il 06/11/2017 20:52, Robert Kaiser ha scritto:
> > Daniele schrieb:
> >> I don't understand your sarcasm here. Btrfs, makes system unuseable
> >> while rebalancing.. it's a well known issue (since years).
> >
> > I've been using btrfs as may main filesystem for ages and even when I
> > rebalance manually, which I do every now and then, I never saw the whole
> > system freeze up in any bad way, so not sure what you are talking about.
> >
> > KaiRo
>
> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1064249
> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1063638
> But the problem it's not new. Debated in this ml few time.
> For me, just yesterday, pc unuseable, Sysrq->reboot.
> I'm using btrfs only on a test machine..

I agree the statement "fix btrfs" but of course in this way of very generic
phrasing it's not helpful.
https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1017461
is one of the "long standing" bugs but it *is* resolved. The ones mentioned
above - one reported by me - are more specific and therefore more likely to be
fixed sooner :) If a problem does not get fixed that fast it might be for the
following reasons:
1) It's actually not *a* problem but multiple ones -> your help would be
appreciated to pinpoint and separate the issues
2) The problem is not (easily) reproducible by anyone that could fix it ->
your help would be appreciated to make the problem more easily reproducible

Actually we also try to cover this bug(s) with our openQA tests and we have at
least one test that reproducibly shows that there is something missing to be
fixed:
https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/524584#step/force_cron_run/13

Regards,
Oliver

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Re: Found some feedback on reddit

Cristiano Guadagnino
In reply to this post by Daniele
Hi Daniele!

On 06/11/2017 19:53, Daniele wrote:

> Il 06/11/2017 19:36, Michal Kubecek ha scritto:
>> On Mon, Nov 06, 2017 at 05:39:50PM +0100, Daniele wrote:
>>> Il 06/11/2017 09:33, Fabian Vogt ha scritto:
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> on reddit I came across this topic which resulted in some
>>>> interesting feedback from former and current users (only slightly
>>>> KDE related):
>>>>
>>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/7azp43/kde_plasma_praise_report/dpe3lol/ 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas what can be done to fix the mentioned issues?
>>>
>>> Fix btrfs would be a good start ;)
>>> Daniele.
>>
>> Great idea, let's fix btrfs, I wonder why nobody thought of it before.
>> And once we fix it, we should fix networking, memory management,
>> scheduler, ... Don't forget about security vulnerabilities, those should
>> be definitely fixed, too. And then we will all live happily ever after.
>>
>> Michal Kubeček
>>
>
> I don't understand your sarcasm here. Btrfs, makes system unuseable
> while rebalancing.. it's a well known issue (since years).
> Sometimes I ask myself "why suse/opensuse is the only distribution
> with btrfs ?".
>
> Daniele.

Never had this kind of problem here, but maybe it's because I'm on SSD?
Although I've been using a mechanical disk until last year and I don't
remember having the problem.

Cris

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Re: Found some feedback on reddit

Andrei Borzenkov
In reply to this post by Oliver Kurz-2
> 2) The problem is not (easily) reproducible by anyone that could fix it ->
> your help would be appreciated to make the problem more easily reproducible
>

I do not think it's possible to reproduce it on will, but every now
and then I had VM freezing. I would reboot into initrd, cancel balance
and everything went well after that. I /could/ capture disk next time
I see it (have not observed for a long time BTW). Would it be helpful
to anyone?
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