Favorite E-mail Clients

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Favorite E-mail Clients

John Meyer-4
I'd like to know what you guys favorite e-mail client is.  I've tried
KMail and Evolution, but I keep coming back to Thunderbird.
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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

James Knott
John Meyer wrote:
> I'd like to know what you guys favorite e-mail client is.  I've tried
> KMail and Evolution, but I keep coming back to Thunderbird.
>  
I use Seamonkey.

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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

Benjamin Rosenberg
In reply to this post by John Meyer-4
On Nov 19, 2006, at 9:09 PM, John Meyer wrote:

> I'd like to know what you guys favorite e-mail client is.  I've tried
> KMail and Evolution, but I keep coming back to Thunderbird.

I use Mutt for my work email and Mail (OS X) at home.

- Ben
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having to try and acquire one.


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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

Randall Schulz
In reply to this post by John Meyer-4
On Sunday 19 November 2006 19:09, John Meyer wrote:
> I'd like to know what you guys favorite e-mail client is.  I've tried
> KMail and Evolution, but I keep coming back to Thunderbird.

The Mozilla Foundation makes a fabulous browser.

The same cannot be said for their email and news software.

KMail and KNode are still tops in my book.


RRS
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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

PerfectReign
In reply to this post by John Meyer-4
On Sunday 19 November 2006 19:09, John Meyer wrote:
> I'd like to know what you guys favorite e-mail client is.  I've tried
> KMail and Evolution, but I keep coming back to Thunderbird.

Honestly, I really like and appreciate many of the features in Outlook 2003.
Hence, it would have to be my favorite client.  It has the features I need
and want and does a great job.

That said, I can't run Outlook on Linux, so I run KMail. I've tried
thunderbird and keep coming back to this.

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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

Felix Miata
On 2006/11/19 21:37 (GMT-0800) Kai Ponte apparently typed:

> Honestly, I really like and appreciate many of the features in Outlook 2003.
> Hence, it would have to be my favorite client.  It has the features I need
> and want

That may well be.

> and does a great job.

Of screwing up everyone's mail threading, since it fails to retain
threading references, and enabling trojans, worms and virii to do their
dirty work, not to mention facilitating top posting and broken quoting.

You could run doz in a virtual machine on SUSE so as to keep your
malware enabler enabled.

My choice is cross-platform, easily teachable to anyone regardless of
what they install it on. I manage to survive 600-800 emails on an
average day with it.
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                                                Matthew 5:12 NIV

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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

James Ogley
In reply to this post by John Meyer-4
> I'd like to know what you guys favorite e-mail client is.  I've tried
> KMail and Evolution, but I keep coming back to Thunderbird.

Depending on the context, I use Evolution and mutt.  Probably Evo 70% of
the time, mutt 30%.
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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

Roger Oberholtzer
In reply to this post by Felix Miata
On Mon, 2006-11-20 at 01:19 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:

> On 2006/11/19 21:37 (GMT-0800) Kai Ponte apparently typed:
>
> > Honestly, I really like and appreciate many of the features in Outlook 2003.
> > Hence, it would have to be my favorite client.  It has the features I need
> > and want
>
> That may well be.
>
> > and does a great job.
>
> Of screwing up everyone's mail threading, since it fails to retain
> threading references, and enabling trojans, worms and virii to do their
> dirty work, not to mention facilitating top posting and broken quoting.

Is also encourages non-standard behavior, like setting the background
image of an e-mail. What is that nonsense?

--
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OPQ Systems AB
Ramböll Sverige AB
Kapellgränd 7
P.O. Box 4205
SE-102 65 Stockholm, Sweden

Tel: Int +46 8-615 60 20
Fax: Int +46 8-31 42 23

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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

Michal Hlavac
In reply to this post by John Meyer-4
Dňa Po 20. November 2006 04:09 John Meyer napísal:
> I'd like to know what you guys favorite e-mail client is.  I've tried
> KMail and Evolution, but I keep coming back to Thunderbird.

I used thunderbird. Then I switch to kmail, because it is integrated into kde.
But some things are terrible in kmail:

1. Painfully slow filters on imap. Why kmail always download whole message???
Thunderbird filters 1000 messages in second.

2. Sorting threads. When new message arrives into older thread, this thread is
not show on the top of the message list. This is good when you read mailing
lists.
There is no problem with this in thunderbird.

3. Why there is difference between online and offline imap account???
In thunderbird is one type of imap account and you can change this setting
with one checkbox.

4. You can't see that thread contains unread messages if thread is collapsed.
In thuderbird is title of thread underlined.

Good things in kmail:

1. Integrated to KDE and kontact.

2. Tray icon support. I can choose folders which are included in new mail
count.


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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

Bugzilla from pnemec@suse.cz
In reply to this post by John Meyer-4
Dne Monday 20 November 2006 04:09 John Meyer napsal(a):
> I'd like to know what you guys favorite e-mail client is.  I've tried
> KMail and Evolution, but I keep coming back to Thunderbird.

I used many mails so far, kmail, thunderbird, mail.app (MAC OS X), mullberry,
opera (opera have great mail klient).

I use kmail in work, because together with KDE integration it offer me more
features. I hade about 2GB of mails and kmail have  big problems with it (on
imap, kmail is not good on imap :( )
I use mail.app and mulberry on Mac OS X.

I will recomend you try mulberry. It is very ....diferent. And work absolutly
great with imap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulberry_(e-mail_client)

Pavel


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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

jdd@dodin.org
In reply to this post by James Knott
James Knott a écrit :
> John Meyer wrote:
>> I'd like to know what you guys favorite e-mail client is.  I've tried
>> KMail and Evolution, but I keep coming back to Thunderbird.
>>  
> I use Seamonkey.
>
+1
jdd

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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

Bugzilla from pnemec@suse.cz
In reply to this post by Bugzilla from pnemec@suse.cz
Now to right ML.
Dne Monday 20 November 2006 12:16 Pavel Nemec napsal(a):
> Dne Monday 20 November 2006 08:57 jste napsal(a):
> > Dne Monday 20 November 2006 04:09 John Meyer napsal(a):
> > > I'd like to know what you guys favorite e-mail client is.  I've tried
>
> I think this is very interesting topic. I create wiki page, feel free to
> add your remakrs.
> http://en.opensuse.org/Mail

 Pavel

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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

John Meyer-4
In reply to this post by Michal Hlavac
I also like the integrated Thunderbird RSS and news clients, though I
don't like the way the news client doesn't allow you to get rid of news
posts that you haven't read in order to clear up some of the clutter.
On Mon, 2006-11-20 at 08:51 +0100, Michal Hlavac wrote:

> Dňa Po 20. November 2006 04:09 John Meyer napísal:
> > I'd like to know what you guys favorite e-mail client is.  I've tried
> > KMail and Evolution, but I keep coming back to Thunderbird.
>
> I used thunderbird. Then I switch to kmail, because it is integrated into kde.
> But some things are terrible in kmail:
>
> 1. Painfully slow filters on imap. Why kmail always download whole message???
> Thunderbird filters 1000 messages in second.
>
> 2. Sorting threads. When new message arrives into older thread, this thread is
> not show on the top of the message list. This is good when you read mailing
> lists.
> There is no problem with this in thunderbird.
>
> 3. Why there is difference between online and offline imap account???
> In thunderbird is one type of imap account and you can change this setting
> with one checkbox.
>
> 4. You can't see that thread contains unread messages if thread is collapsed.
> In thuderbird is title of thread underlined.
>
> Good things in kmail:
>
> 1. Integrated to KDE and kontact.
>
> 2. Tray icon support. I can choose folders which are included in new mail
> count.
>

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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by PerfectReign
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The Sunday 2006-11-19 at 21:37 -0800, Kai Ponte wrote:

> Honestly, I really like and appreciate many of the features in Outlook 2003.
> Hence, it would have to be my favorite client.  It has the features I need
> and want

No question on personal tastes.

> and does a great job.

Ha! No way. It is broken.

It breaks threading (seen pretty often here). It uses uncountable non
standard features.

- --
Cheers,
       Carlos E. R.

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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

PerfectReign
In reply to this post by Felix Miata
On Sunday 19 November 2006 22:19, Felix Miata wrote:

> On 2006/11/19 21:37 (GMT-0800) Kai Ponte apparently typed:
> > Honestly, I really like and appreciate many of the features in Outlook
> > 2003. Hence, it would have to be my favorite client.  It has the features
> > I need and want
>
> That may well be.
>
> > and does a great job.
>
> Of screwing up everyone's mail threading, since it fails to retain
> threading references,

Not sure what that is.

> and enabling trojans, worms and virii to do their
> dirty work,


Those are not a portion of the client, but rather the underlying OS, which is
inferior.


> not to mention facilitating top posting and broken quoting.

Yes, the top posting this is set by default. I've tried to wrangle my
organizations to un-top-post, but they just won't. :P
>
> You could run doz in a virtual machine on SUSE so as to keep your
> malware enabler enabled.

Already do...

http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/outlook_save.jpg

...that's an older picture, but you get the idea.

I need it running to connect to my work email, when connected via VPN.


>
> My choice is cross-platform, easily teachable to anyone regardless of
> what they install it on. I manage to survive 600-800 emails on an
> average day with it.

Oh, it will work, I'm sure. I'm not discounting it. I'm just saying how I like
the client. Outlook 2003 (not any previous version) is just a very nice to
use client.


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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

Randall Schulz
Kai,

On Monday 20 November 2006 06:06, Kai Ponte wrote:

> On Sunday 19 November 2006 22:19, Felix Miata wrote:
> > On 2006/11/19 21:37 (GMT-0800) Kai Ponte apparently typed:
> > > ...
> >
> > > and does a great job.
> >
> > Of screwing up everyone's mail threading, since it fails to retain
> > threading references,
>
> Not sure what that is.

Then you need to learn about the In-Reply-To header, which is what makes
nice hierarchical topic structures possible in contemporary,
standards-based mail clients.


> > and enabling trojans, worms and virii to do their
> > dirty work,
>
> Those are not a portion of the client, but rather the underlying OS,
> which is inferior.

You've got that really wrong. The underlying Windows OS kernel is just
fine and well designed.

It _is_ the fact that Outlook and Outlook Express will automatically
invoke active content of the messages they receive (compounded by the
ability of that code to access many local resource and initiate
outgoing email) that makes them such a ripe portal of infection and
transmission of malware of various sorts.


> ...
>
>
> --
> kai


Randall Schulz
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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

PerfectReign
On Monday 20 November 2006 07:05, Randall R Schulz wrote:

> Kai,
>
> On Monday 20 November 2006 06:06, Kai Ponte wrote:
> > On Sunday 19 November 2006 22:19, Felix Miata wrote:
> > > On 2006/11/19 21:37 (GMT-0800) Kai Ponte apparently typed:
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > and does a great job.
> > >
> > > Of screwing up everyone's mail threading, since it fails to retain
> > > threading references,
> >
> > Not sure what that is.
>
> Then you need to learn about the In-Reply-To header, which is what makes
> nice hierarchical topic structures possible in contemporary,
> standards-based mail clients.

Um, okay.

I prefer flat listing in date order. My usenet client - Pan - is set the same
way.


>
> > > and enabling trojans, worms and virii to do their
> > > dirty work,
> >
> > Those are not a portion of the client, but rather the underlying OS,
> > which is inferior.
>
> You've got that really wrong. The underlying Windows OS kernel is just
> fine and well designed.

Heh. That's funny!  
>
> It _is_ the fact that Outlook and Outlook Express will automatically
> invoke active content of the messages they receive (compounded by the
> ability of that code to access many local resource and initiate
> outgoing email) that makes them such a ripe portal of infection and
> transmission of malware of various sorts.

Again, the OS.  If I ran active content on KMail or Thunderbird or whatever
under *nix, I'm still only one user and cannot infect the system files,
wherever they're located - /etc/fu/bar /bin/bash /usr/opt/home

I use KMail on my laptop, simply because it is integrated and has a decent
interface. There are - however - many things that I would like to see
updated.  They're all UI features that I think the Outlook client has it
right for most - if not all - these desired features.

Keep in mind - I'm discussing the client functionality, ease of use,
intuitiveness (which is probably the same thing), customization, and speed.
All of these are end-user experience features and very subjective. I am
stating nothing about the underlying code, adherence to "standards", or
security.

I'm sure some email uber-geek out there will tell me all my arguments are
bogus and that I should be using Mutt or Pine. :P

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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

Randall Schulz
On Monday 20 November 2006 07:42, Kai Ponte wrote:

> On Monday 20 November 2006 07:05, Randall R Schulz wrote:
> > ...
> > > >
> > > > Of screwing up everyone's mail threading, since it fails to
> > > > retain threading references,
> > >
> > > Not sure what that is.
> >
> > Then you need to learn about the In-Reply-To header, which is what
> > makes nice hierarchical topic structures possible in contemporary,
> > standards-based mail clients.
>
> Um, okay.
>
> I prefer flat listing in date order. My usenet client - Pan - is set
> the same way.

Is there _any_ mail client that won't do that?


> > > > and enabling trojans, worms and virii to do their
> > > > dirty work,
> > >
> > > Those are not a portion of the client, but rather the underlying
> > > OS, which is inferior.

You are very confused about what's happening where.


> > You've got that really wrong. The underlying Windows OS kernel is
> > just fine and well designed.
>
> Heh. That's funny!

I'm glad you're amused, but  it is a fact.

Are you a software designer?


> > It _is_ the fact that Outlook and Outlook Express will
> > automatically invoke active content of the messages they receive
> > (compounded by the ability of that code to access many local
> > resource and initiate outgoing email) that makes them such a ripe
> > portal of infection and transmission of malware of various sorts.
>
> Again, the OS.  If I ran active content on KMail or Thunderbird or
> whatever under *nix, I'm still only one user and cannot infect the
> system files, wherever they're located - /etc/fu/bar /bin/bash
> /usr/opt/home

You're very confused. If we wrote an Outlook clone (gave it active
content capabilities, access to local address books and the ability to
send mail all without any user interaction) for Linux, it would have
the same vulnerabilities.


> I use KMail on my laptop, simply because it is integrated and has a
> decent interface. There are - however - many things that I would like
> to see updated.  They're all UI features that I think the Outlook
> client has it right for most - if not all - these desired features.

Fine. Make requests to the KMail project. They'll take them seriously.


> Keep in mind - I'm discussing the client functionality, ease of use,
> intuitiveness (which is probably the same thing), customization, and
> speed. All of these are end-user experience features and very
> subjective. I am stating nothing about the underlying code, adherence
> to "standards", or security.

Adherence to standards is very, very important for any application that
operates in an Internet environment. One of Microsoft's biggest
problems is their arrogant attitude about standards.


> I'm sure some email uber-geek out there will tell me all my arguments
> are bogus and that I should be using Mutt or Pine. :P

You should use almost anything other than one of the Outlooks. If you
have to use an Exchange server, my heart goes out to you. Now _that_ is
the dregs.


> --
> kai


Randall Schulz
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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

PerfectReign
On Monday 20 November 2006 07:51, Randall R Schulz wrote:

> On Monday 20 November 2006 07:42, Kai Ponte wrote:
> > On Monday 20 November 2006 07:05, Randall R Schulz wrote:
> > > ...
> > >
> > > > > Of screwing up everyone's mail threading, since it fails to
> > > > > retain threading references,
> > > >
> > > > Not sure what that is.
> > >
> > > Then you need to learn about the In-Reply-To header, which is what
> > > makes nice hierarchical topic structures possible in contemporary,
> > > standards-based mail clients.
> >
> > Um, okay.
> >
> > I prefer flat listing in date order. My usenet client - Pan - is set
> > the same way.
>
> Is there _any_ mail client that won't do that?

Dunno.


>
> > > > > and enabling trojans, worms and virii to do their
> > > > > dirty work,
> > > >
> > > > Those are not a portion of the client, but rather the underlying
> > > > OS, which is inferior.
>
> You are very confused about what's happening where.

No, not confused. I don't think it is necessarily the responsibility of the
client to handle security for the OS. If the client wants to run scripts,
that should be fine and it is within the context of the OS to handle security
outside of that client.

If the OS allows software application X to write to the system, that is where
the security lies.


>
> > > You've got that really wrong. The underlying Windows OS kernel is
> > > just fine and well designed.
> >
> > Heh. That's funny!
>
> I'm glad you're amused, but  it is a fact.

I won't go into why I don't like the WinNT kernel, I'd probably get shot off
for being OT, which this is straying, I think.

>
> Are you a software designer?

No, I'm a manager of software designers. :)  

Seriously, I've been programming since '79, and professionally since '92, when
I graduated college.




>
> > > It _is_ the fact that Outlook and Outlook Express will
> > > automatically invoke active content of the messages they receive
> > > (compounded by the ability of that code to access many local
> > > resource and initiate outgoing email) that makes them such a ripe
> > > portal of infection and transmission of malware of various sorts.
> >
> > Again, the OS.  If I ran active content on KMail or Thunderbird or
> > whatever under *nix, I'm still only one user and cannot infect the
> > system files, wherever they're located - /etc/fu/bar /bin/bash
> > /usr/opt/home
>
> You're very confused. If we wrote an Outlook clone (gave it active
> content capabilities, access to local address books and the ability to
> send mail all without any user interaction) for Linux, it would have
> the same vulnerabilities.

Not likely. In linux - with the beautiful su capbility - I cannot mess up any
system settings or applications.

If I try to go in and modify any file under /bin or /sbin, then I would be
flately denied. I like that. Yes, I could craft an application which causes a
buffer overflow, thus potentially creating an issue, but it would be highly
unlikely that such an application would spread very far.

OTOH, under Windows, that same functionality doesn't exist. It is very hard to
run Windows in lock down mode - trust me, I've tried - and be successful.

I still remember hearing on the news that there was this big, "I Love You"
virus that had hit the East Coast. I got into work early and tried to get to
our Exchange server to patch it, so we wouldn't be affected. Unfortunately,
the CEO had decided that was the day to come in very early. He saw an email
from his buddy in New York, saying, "I Love You" and got curious....  What a
mess!


>
> > I use KMail on my laptop, simply because it is integrated and has a
> > decent interface. There are - however - many things that I would like
> > to see updated.  They're all UI features that I think the Outlook
> > client has it right for most - if not all - these desired features.
>
> Fine. Make requests to the KMail project. They'll take them seriously.

I have. So far, I haven't heard anything back. <shrugs>

>
> > Keep in mind - I'm discussing the client functionality, ease of use,
> > intuitiveness (which is probably the same thing), customization, and
> > speed. All of these are end-user experience features and very
> > subjective. I am stating nothing about the underlying code, adherence
> > to "standards", or security.
>
> Adherence to standards is very, very important for any application that
> operates in an Internet environment. One of Microsoft's biggest
> problems is their arrogant attitude about standards.
>
> > I'm sure some email uber-geek out there will tell me all my arguments
> > are bogus and that I should be using Mutt or Pine. :P
>
> You should use almost anything other than one of the Outlooks. If you
> have to use an Exchange server, my heart goes out to you. Now _that_ is
> the dregs.

...and I would. Being that I despise MS as a company, I would be happy to use
any email client if I could. Unfortunately, we are still on Exchange 5.5 and
cannot use Evolution or any other email client. (The connectors do not
exist.)


Again, I just brought up Outlook as an example of a fantastic UI and
functional eMail client. If there were a better Outlook - and Kontakt comes
close - I'd be all over it!
--
kai
www.perfectreign.com || www.4thedadz.com

a turn signal is a statement, not a request
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Re: Favorite E-mail Clients

Randall Schulz
On Monday 20 November 2006 10:45, Kai Ponte wrote:
> ...
> > >
> > > I prefer flat listing in date order. My usenet client - Pan - is
> > > set the same way.
> >
> > Is there _any_ mail client that won't do that?
>
> Dunno.

There are non to speak of. All mail clients will provide a simple,
date-ordered message list.


> > > > > > and enabling trojans, worms and virii to do their
> > > > > > dirty work,
> > > > >
> > > > > Those are not a portion of the client, but rather the
> > > > > underlying OS, which is inferior.
> >
> > You are very confused about what's happening where.
>
> No, not confused. I don't think it is necessarily the responsibility
> of the client to handle security for the OS. If the client wants to
> run scripts, that should be fine and it is within the context of the
> OS to handle security outside of that client.

That is nonsense. The OS cannot know what larger-scale patterns of
activity represent acceptable and unacceptable actions within the
application program.


> If the OS allows software application X to write to the system, that
> is where the security lies.

And conversely: Preventing modification of system resources is far from
sufficient to prevent malicious activities.


> > > > You've got that really wrong. The underlying Windows OS kernel
> > > > is just fine and well designed.
> > >
> > > Heh. That's funny!
> >
> > I'm glad you're amused, but  it is a fact.
>
> I won't go into why I don't like the WinNT kernel, I'd probably get
> shot off for being OT, which this is straying, I think.
>
> > Are you a software designer?
>
> No, I'm a manager of software designers. :)

Yeah. I know the type...


> Seriously, I've been programming since '79, and professionally since
> '92, when I graduated college.

Well, then I guess you just need more experience.


> > > > It _is_ the fact that Outlook and Outlook Express will
> > > > automatically invoke active content of the messages they
> > > > receive (compounded by the ability of that code to access many
> > > > local resource and initiate outgoing email) that makes them
> > > > such a ripe portal of infection and transmission of malware of
> > > > various sorts.
> > >
> > > Again, the OS.  If I ran active content on KMail or Thunderbird
> > > or whatever under *nix, I'm still only one user and cannot infect
> > > the system files, wherever they're located - /etc/fu/bar
> > > /bin/bash /usr/opt/home
> >
> > You're very confused. If we wrote an Outlook clone (gave it active
> > content capabilities, access to local address books and the ability
> > to send mail all without any user interaction) for Linux, it would
> > have the same vulnerabilities.
>
> Not likely. In linux - with the beautiful su capbility - I cannot
> mess up any system settings or applications.

But you can write scripts and programs that do bad things such as DOS
attacks and mail-bombing. Likewise, the vulnerabilities in Outlook
remain even if the user running it has no administrative privileges.


> ...
>
> I still remember hearing on the news that there was this big, "I Love
> You" virus that had hit the East Coast. I got into work early and
> tried to get to our Exchange server to patch it, so we wouldn't be
> affected. Unfortunately, the CEO had decided that was the day to come
> in very early. He saw an email from his buddy in New York, saying, "I
> Love You" and got curious....  What a mess!

And that virus spread without using privileges beyond those available to
non-administrative users. It spread solely based on the capabilities of
Outlook itself. Again, a comparable program written for Linux or MacOS
would have the same vulnerabilities.


> ...
>
> --
> kai


Randall Schulz
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