CAnt burn iso dvd's

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Re: Re: CAnt burn iso dvd's

Karl Sinn
> may be it's for cd's

:-)
yes, it's for CD-R. for DVD see the other labtest

Karl
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Re: CAnt burn iso dvd's

jdd@dodin.org
In reply to this post by jdd@dodin.org
Karl Sinn a écrit :
>> may be it's for cd's
>
> :-)
> yes, it's for CD-R. for DVD see the other labtest
>
> Karl
anyway I have a direct dvd writing experience.  had last month to
write 2 different dvd at 100 copies each. I used an old dvd writer
only 4x on one computer and bough a new usb dvd writer to use on an
other one.

the new dvd writer writed at 8x

noname dvd, no speed printed on them. K3b, image writing

I had no problem at all with the new writer. All good easily readable
dvd's.

with the old one, I had approx 10% return. People couldn't read the
dvd's. for some I could read the menu (video dvd's) but not the actual
chapters. For most of the other returned ones *I* could read them
(including on other reader, not the one they where written by)... so I
beg they where only difficult to read one some readers.

so 8x writing no problems, 4x writing problems

probably a compatibility problem between dvd and writer, not
necessarily for speed only. The studies seems to say also there are
better couples dvd<->writers

jdd



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Re: Re: CAnt burn iso dvd's

Karl Sinn
Am Mittwoch, 22. April 2009 14:19:46 schrieb jdd:
> so 8x writing no problems, 4x writing problems
>
> probably a compatibility problem between dvd and writer, not
> necessarily for speed only. The studies seems to say also there are
> better couples dvd<->writers

The age of the writer can also be a problem. I heard from different friends
who burn a lot, that after a certain amount of hours of burning the writing
quality is going down quite fast.

Karl
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Re: Re: CAnt burn iso dvd's

Carlos E. R.-2
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On Wednesday, 2009-04-22 at 14:59 +0200, Karl Sinn wrote:

> The age of the writer can also be a problem. I heard from different friends
> who burn a lot, that after a certain amount of hours of burning the writing
> quality is going down quite fast.

Perhaps because they use lenses made of plastic, instead of glass.

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        Carlos E. R.

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Re: Re: CAnt burn iso dvd's

Rajko M.
On Wednesday 22 April 2009 08:46:00 am Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On Wednesday, 2009-04-22 at 14:59 +0200, Karl Sinn wrote:
> > The age of the writer can also be a problem. I heard from different
> > friends who burn a lot, that after a certain amount of hours of burning
> > the writing quality is going down quite fast.
>
> Perhaps because they use lenses made of plastic, instead of glass.

Whatever is the reason there is professional class of devices that can be used
for mass burning, but the price is also "professional".  

It is simple as it can be, device designed for occasional burning of one DVD
can't handle multiple runs, one after another without damage. It could last
long, but with say one DVD per hour. Of course, this one hour time is my
opinion, as there is no such data about cheap DVD burners, so take it with
grain of salt. :-)

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Re: Re: CAnt burn iso dvd's

Carlos E. R.-2
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On Wednesday, 2009-04-22 at 13:12 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:

>> Perhaps because they use lenses made of plastic, instead of glass.
>
> Whatever is the reason there is professional class of devices that can be used
> for mass burning, but the price is also "professional".

One wonders if buying one of those is worth it, considering that when
those pesky devices fail you don't know what it is happening, except that
verify fails, or worse, read fails a month later or when you send them
away.

When mine fails, first thing I think is software.

- --
Cheers,
        Carlos E. R.
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Re: CAnt burn iso dvd's

G T Smith
In reply to this post by Karl Sinn
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Karl Sinn wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Am Mittwoch, 22. April 2009 10:20:01 schrieb G T Smith:
>> For burning use
>>
>> growisofs -dvd-compat -Z <device name>=<iso source>
>
> Can you tell me what makes growisofs better than wodim?
>
> Thanks
> Karl

growisofs is best for burning to DVD or multi-session work and does use
elements of wodim, for DVD burning wodim can be used but the information
to perform a DVD burn has to be supplied to wodim and you need to know
what you are doing if you want to avoid coaster creation. growisofs
works out what needs to be done, so I have never felt the need
experiment with wodim on DVD burns. (The original cdrecord could not
handle DVD, and IIRC multi-session support was limited).

For single session CDs either should do job, though wodim is plausibly a
 better choice.


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Re: Re: CAnt burn iso dvd's

G T Smith
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
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Carlos E. R. wrote:

>
>
> On Wednesday, 2009-04-22 at 13:12 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:
>
>>> Perhaps because they use lenses made of plastic, instead of glass.
>
>> Whatever is the reason there is professional class of devices that can
>> be used
>> for mass burning, but the price is also "professional".
>
> One wonders if buying one of those is worth it, considering that when
> those pesky devices fail you don't know what it is happening, except
> that verify fails, or worse, read fails a month later or when you send
> them away.
>
> When mine fails, first thing I think is software.
>
> -- Cheers,
>        Carlos E. R.

We are talking data here not multi-media and somewhat different rules
apply between the two usages. Most of these devices are targeted at
multi-media usage or commercial data media (and I suspect the latter are
not so much burnt as printed).

While multi-media optical formats are designed to handle data loss by a
combination of low level data integrity checks and file formats that are
designed to handle block data errors. Most file systems do not have the
latter protection. Data can be flagged as bad because the block fails
the CRC integrity check, (possibly due to the integrity check being
incorrect rather than the data being corrupt) and be lost to the FS (or
even to some low level data reading software such as dd).

RW format media data loss can be unacceptably high after relatively few
write operations. Dust, hairs and stray small wildlife can ruin a burn
(or read) operation. Ideally CD-RAM or DVD-RAM devices with caddy held
media are a lot more reliable as an optical data storage option. (But
both media and devices are difficult to find and relatively expensive).

Another thing to remember is that DVD and CD are different low level
formats and CD supports some data descriptors that DVD does not. (This
potentially could cause problems on some devices if CD image is burnt to
DVD media or vice versa).


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Re: CAnt burn iso dvd's

Richard Atcheson-3
In reply to this post by G T Smith
On Wednesday 22 April 2009 03:20:01 am G T Smith wrote:

> Try following at CLI....
>
> wodim dev=<devicename> -prcap
>
> to get an idea of what wodim knows about media and drive. This command
> will probably need to be run as root.
>
> For burning use
>
> growisofs -dvd-compat -Z <device name>=<iso source>
>
> see man growisofs.
>
> K3b monkeys around with default settings and special switches when the
> defaults work 90% of the time on good hardware and media. I would at the
> moment use K3b to build an image but not to burn it.
>
> What may also help is if try...
>
> isovfy <device name>
>
> see man isovfy
>
> to check the integrity of the image (of limited value but of some use).

Thanks to all who have responded.,  I haven't been ignoring your suggestions,
but trying them all. I've had no success burning the bootable iso onto a dvd.  
That is, it looks like everythign is there but the dvd wont boot.  So I
booted into vista which is still on this machine and burned the same iso
image with the same results.  My conclusion is the dvd writer may be
defective or the iso image is bad.  Am downloading a new and different iso
image to make another check.

BTW, the laptop is a new Dell inspiron 1545 which I've had for only a few
weeks.  The media is both memorex and Ridata which I have used many times.  
All are x4 for dvds and each app burns at less than 4x. Until now I've never
had a problem except for my own stupidity or temporary problems with updates
to k3b or the programs it uses.

Again, thanks for the assistance.  I'll report the results of my testing.

Richard
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Re: CAnt burn iso dvd's

Jim Henderson-4
On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 13:30:41 -0500, Richard Atcheson wrote:

>  I've had no success burning the bootable
> iso onto a dvd. That is, it looks like everythign is there but the dvd
> wont boot.  So I booted into vista which is still on this machine and
> burned the same iso image with the same results.  My conclusion is the
> dvd writer may be defective or the iso image is bad.  Am downloading a
> new and different iso image to make another check.

Maybe a dumb question, but have you checked the boot sequence in the BIOS
to make sure that the DVD drive is set to be the boot device before the
hard drive, or have you tried using a temporary boot menu (whatever it's
called on that laptop) to select the drive as a boot device for a single
boot?

Jim



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Re: Re: CAnt burn iso dvd's

Richard Atcheson-3
On Thursday 23 April 2009 04:03:02 pm Jim Henderson wrote:
> Maybe a dumb question, but have you checked the boot sequence in the BIOS
> to make sure that the DVD drive is set to be the boot device before the
> hard drive, or have you tried using a temporary boot menu (whatever it's
> called on that laptop) to select the drive as a boot device for a single
> boot?

That's not a dumb question, but yes I checked that several times.  I have
concluded that I had two bad dvd downloads .  2 separate iso files of two
separate programs downloaded at different times.  

I was able to copy a bootable dvd using k3b and so downloaded another copy of
Knoppix from another mirror. Just burned it and the dvd boots on both this
and another laptop.   I checked the md5 sums on the two non bootable ones and
it's correct.  

Guess this problem is mainly multiple errors on my part.  Thanks still for the
help.  It got me looking at things I hadnt thought about.

Richard.
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Re: CAnt burn iso dvd's

jdd@dodin.org
In reply to this post by G T Smith
Richard Atcheson a écrit :

> That is, it looks like everythign is there but the dvd wont boot.

are you sure the dvd is bootable? can you try it with virtualbox?
(this allow booting directly images)

jdd


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Re: Re: CAnt burn iso dvd's

Richard Atcheson-3
On Friday 24 April 2009 02:17:35 am jdd wrote:
> Richard Atcheson a écrit :
> > That is, it looks like everythign is there but the dvd wont boot.
>
> are you sure the dvd is bootable? can you try it with virtualbox?
> (this allow booting directly images)
>
> jdd


That's brilliant Jean!   None of the 4 different burns of Debian would boot
while one of the Knoppix would.

Now I have another troubleshooting tool.

Thanks,
Richard
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Re: Re: CAnt burn iso dvd's

Rajko M.
On Friday 24 April 2009 03:05:21 pm Richard Atcheson wrote:
> None of the 4 different burns

While burn is clear what it should be, Jean was talking to boot iso.
That can tell you is it iso worth burning.

It can fail later, on real hardware, but if it doesn't work in VBox, which
emulates pretty standard hardware, that is not a good sign.

> of Debian would boot
> while one of the Knoppix would.
>
> Now I have another troubleshooting tool.

Be aware it is not ideal, there were cases that iso doesn't boot in VBox, but
it will on real hardware.

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list settings wrong

Carl Spitzer-4
On Fri, 2009-04-24 at 19:21 -0500, opensuse
+bounces-88292-cwsiv=[hidden email]

In place of the authors email I get this opensuse+bounces nonsense.
H0w can this be corrected on the OpenSuSE.org server.


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Re: list settings wrong

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.-3
In <[hidden email]>, Carl Spitzer wrote:
>On Fri, 2009-04-24 at 19:21 -0500, opensuse
>+bounces-88292-cwsiv=[hidden email]
>
>In place of the authors email I get this opensuse+bounces nonsense.
>H0w can this be corrected on the OpenSuSE.org server.

It can't.  You are using the wrong header.

The "From" header is unmodified by the list software and should contain the
author's address -- or whatever address the author chose to show.

The "Return-Path" header is replaced or added by the list software and
contains the address to send MDNs and other automated replies so they can be
handled by the list software (e.g. by retrying the message at a later time,
removing a user from the list, or turning off mail delivery to a user
temporarily).

You were a bit terse with your query.  If I've answered the wrong question,
reply rephrase your query and include more detail.  If you still assert the
list headers are incorrectly formated, please provide more evidence to back up
your assertion.
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Re: list settings wrong [FIXED]

Rajko M.
In reply to this post by Carl Spitzer-4

Problem fixed in off list email, please don't answer to this one.

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Re: Re: CAnt burn iso dvd's

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by G T Smith
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On Thursday, 2009-04-23 at 10:15 +0100, G T Smith wrote:

> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, 2009-04-22 at 13:12 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:
>>
>>>> Perhaps because they use lenses made of plastic, instead of glass.
>>
>>> Whatever is the reason there is professional class of devices that can
>>> be used
>>> for mass burning, but the price is also "professional".
>>
>> One wonders if buying one of those is worth it, considering that when
>> those pesky devices fail you don't know what it is happening, except
>> that verify fails, or worse, read fails a month later or when you send
>> them away.
>>
>> When mine fails, first thing I think is software.
>
> We are talking data here not multi-media and somewhat different rules
> apply between the two usages. Most of these devices are targeted at
> multi-media usage or commercial data media (and I suspect the latter are
> not so much burnt as printed).

No, I was only talking of data dvds.

- --
Cheers,
        Carlos E. R.
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Re: Re: CAnt burn iso dvd's

Rajko M.
On Saturday 25 April 2009 07:16:31 am Carlos E. R. wrote:
> > We are talking data here not multi-media and somewhat different rules
> > apply between the two usages. Most of these devices are targeted at
> > multi-media usage or commercial data media (and I suspect the latter are
> > not so much burnt as printed).
>
> No, I was only talking of data dvds.

The word is about devices.
Most of burners in personal computers today, specially cheap ones, could be
designed to be good for multimedia, which has much higher tolerance to errors.

This is the fact that I overlooked for a long time because in CD burner times
no one would come on idea to use multimedia CD devices in computers, but it
appear that time has changed.

If you see computer prized as "multimedia", or anything that includes it as a
primary use, better don't touch it. This probably includes all models that
have only low price in mind as a design goal.  

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Re: list settings wrong

Carl Spitzer-4
In reply to this post by Carl Spitzer-4
Here is a full header showing the loss of the authors email address
which makes a proper reply impossible.  the backup email addresses do
not have this problem.

CWSIV


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On Sat, 2009-04-25 at 02:46 -0500, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

> In <[hidden email]>, Carl Spitzer wrote:
> >On Fri, 2009-04-24 at 19:21 -0500, opensuse
> >+bounces-88292-cwsiv=[hidden email]
> >
> >In place of the authors email I get this opensuse+bounces nonsense.
> >H0w can this be corrected on the OpenSuSE.org server.
>
> It can't.  You are using the wrong header.
>
> The "From" header is unmodified by the list software and should contain the
> author's address -- or whatever address the author chose to show.
>
> The "Return-Path" header is replaced or added by the list software and
> contains the address to send MDNs and other automated replies so they can be
> handled by the list software (e.g. by retrying the message at a later time,
> removing a user from the list, or turning off mail delivery to a user
> temporarily).
>
> You were a bit terse with your query.  If I've answered the wrong question,
> reply rephrase your query and include more detail.  If you still assert the
> list headers are incorrectly formated, please provide more evidence to back up
> your assertion.
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 \_____|   \/  \/  |_____/|_____|   \/


|  \   /|\  ||   |\ /  |~~\ /~~\  /~~| //~~\
|   \ / | \ ||   | X   |__/|    ||   |( `--.
|__  |  |  \| \_/ / \  |  \ \__/  \__| \\__/

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