Bug 447981 - No user-friendly editor (nano or joe?) in rescue system

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Bug 447981 - No user-friendly editor (nano or joe?) in rescue system

Felix Miata-3
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=447981
Closed worksforme 9 years ago. should I reopen it? Clone it? File from scratch?
Simotek on IRC said file a bug, but I wonder if there is some other editor on
installation media that I just don't know how to find.

I booted the 42.2 rescue system to try to see what's what. The only editors I
could get to open were Edit, Joe and Vim. All have the same non-interface that's
unfriendly to non-veteran users of the vi/ed interface paradigm.

Also, the rescue shell's help command suggests 'info bash' and 'man -k' to get
more help. Both commands produce "command not found".

Before I file any bug, I wonder whether the rescue system is complete when
launched from a Grub boot (here, normally used for HTTP installations instead of
creating media from isos) that specifies only linux and initrd? Help works.
Mount works. Gdisk and fdisk work. Same results tried with TW instead of 42.2.
--
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  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

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Re: Bug 447981 - No user-friendly editor (nano or joe?) in rescue system

Carlos E. R.-2
On 2017-04-17 11:05, Felix Miata wrote:
> https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=447981
> Closed worksforme 9 years ago. should I reopen it? Clone it? File from
> scratch? Simotek on IRC said file a bug, but I wonder if there is some
> other editor on installation media that I just don't know how to find.
>
> I booted the 42.2 rescue system to try to see what's what. The only
> editors I could get to open were Edit, Joe and Vim. All have the same
> non-interface that's unfriendly to non-veteran users of the vi/ed
> interface paradigm.

Joe is "friendly". It has some help and long text menus. But you have to
call them.

> Also, the rescue shell's help command suggests 'info bash' and 'man -k'
> to get more help. Both commands produce "command not found".

On the 13.x series we had a dedicated rescue CD/USB image, but not for
Leap. It was very nice. Complete XFCE desktop.

--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: Bug 447981 - No user-friendly editor (nano or joe?) in rescue system

Anton Aylward-2
In reply to this post by Felix Miata-3
On 17/04/17 05:05 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

> https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=447981
> Closed worksforme 9 years ago. should I reopen it? Clone it? File from scratch?
> Simotek on IRC said file a bug, but I wonder if there is some other editor on
> installation media that I just don't know how to find.
>
> I booted the 42.2 rescue system to try to see what's what. The only editors I
> could get to open were Edit, Joe and Vim. All have the same non-interface that's
> unfriendly to non-veteran users of the vi/ed interface paradigm.
>
> Also, the rescue shell's help command suggests 'info bash' and 'man -k' to get
> more help. Both commands produce "command not found".
>
> Before I file any bug, I wonder whether the rescue system is complete when
> launched from a Grub boot (here, normally used for HTTP installations instead of
> creating media from isos) that specifies only linux and initrd? Help works.
> Mount works. Gdisk and fdisk work. Same results tried with TW instead of 42.2.

I would not expect a RESCUE system to be a complete, fully functional system.
It is a debug & repair environment.
It is not an everyday system, except possibly for those at the 'repair bench' of
a support organization.
I would expect it to be

a) for use only by people who know what they are doing, 'cos this is ROOT power
and to repair the system

b) the rest of the system is out there ... if you can make it work


The times I've needed to use the rescue system my boot or kernel is the thing
that's been borked.  Or possible the RootFS - which was common in the early days
of BtrFS.

I can, thank you the developers of LVM and thanks to my obsession with multiple
file systems as well as /home, mount other file systems such as /usr/share.

I've discussed in other threads why I choose to have all these separate file
systems, here's another reason.  I can mount an intact /usr and /usr/share  and
so have access to, for example, the man pages that you mention.

I usually end up repairing the old RootFS, mounting that (with a few other bits
of setup that I'll pass over here) and then doing a CHROOT.

So now I'm in my old running system and can do proper things like 'mkinitrd' and

Hence the system is rescued.
Wasn't that the point?


A RESCUE system is for doing serious level repairs.
That's not for noobs.
It for people who know what they are doing .... 'Under the hood".

I don't expect this to be user-friendly, have eye candy or training wheels.

When I do this my MAN PAGES are the handwritten notes and in my book of notes,
the one that includes all the notes I took when doing setups, when doing this
kind of thing in the past.  The kind of information I expect to need when I
don't have a running system or an off-lined system.

"Dead trees" have their uses.


From my DatbaseOfDotSigQuotes:
 "The master worries about the work, and the apprentice worries about the tools"
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Re: Bug 447981 - No user-friendly editor (nano or joe?) in rescue system

Carlos E. R.-2
On 2017-04-17 14:19, Anton Aylward wrote:

> On 17/04/17 05:05 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
>> https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=447981
>> Closed worksforme 9 years ago. should I reopen it? Clone it? File from scratch?
>> Simotek on IRC said file a bug, but I wonder if there is some other editor on
>> installation media that I just don't know how to find.
>>
>> I booted the 42.2 rescue system to try to see what's what. The only editors I
>> could get to open were Edit, Joe and Vim. All have the same non-interface that's
>> unfriendly to non-veteran users of the vi/ed interface paradigm.
>>
>> Also, the rescue shell's help command suggests 'info bash' and 'man -k' to get
>> more help. Both commands produce "command not found".
>>
>> Before I file any bug, I wonder whether the rescue system is complete when
>> launched from a Grub boot (here, normally used for HTTP installations instead of
>> creating media from isos) that specifies only linux and initrd? Help works.
>> Mount works. Gdisk and fdisk work. Same results tried with TW instead of 42.2.
>
> I would not expect a RESCUE system to be a complete, fully functional system.
> It is a debug & repair environment.
I expect it to run tools like full YaST, gparted, mc. xfs and other
specific filesystem tools. rsync. Man pages. Info pages. A PDF reader. A
web browser, to seek help on Internet.

Everything to repair a computer without having another computer.

And yes, it did exist, on 13.1. It disappeared on Leap.

--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: Bug 447981 - No user-friendly editor (nano or joe?) in rescue system

Farhad Mohammadi Majd
LE is extremely user friendly, light-weight and feature rich:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LE_(text_editor)

I think it is better option than Vim/vi, Joe and special GNU nano.
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Re: Bug 447981 - No user-friendly editor (nano or joe?) in rescue system

Robert Kaiser
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
Carlos E. R. schrieb:
>> I would not expect a RESCUE system to be a complete, fully functional system.
>> It is a debug & repair environment.
> I expect it to run tools like full YaST, gparted, mc. xfs and other
> specific filesystem tools. rsync. Man pages. Info pages. A PDF reader. A
> web browser, to seek help on Internet.

If you expect a web browser, the openSUSE rescue system is not what you
want. You better use a full live system off a USB stick or DVD. Running
a web browser as root is never a good idea, and the rescue system only
has the root user.

KaiRo
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Re: Bug 447981 - No user-friendly editor (nano or joe?) in rescue system

Dave Plater lst
In reply to this post by Felix Miata-3


On 17/04/2017 11:05, Felix Miata wrote:

> https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=447981
> Closed worksforme 9 years ago. should I reopen it? Clone it? File from
> scratch? Simotek on IRC said file a bug, but I wonder if there is some
> other editor on installation media that I just don't know how to find.
>
> I booted the 42.2 rescue system to try to see what's what. The only
> editors I could get to open were Edit, Joe and Vim. All have the same
> non-interface that's unfriendly to non-veteran users of the vi/ed
> interface paradigm.
>
> Also, the rescue shell's help command suggests 'info bash' and 'man -k'
> to get more help. Both commands produce "command not found".
>
> Before I file any bug, I wonder whether the rescue system is complete
> when launched from a Grub boot (here, normally used for HTTP
> installations instead of creating media from isos) that specifies only
> linux and initrd? Help works. Mount works. Gdisk and fdisk work. Same
> results tried with TW instead of 42.2.
If your main partitions aren't destroyed you can mount your root
partition and chroot to it and have access to man pages and the non x
editor of choice. If you mount -bind sys and proc prior to chroot you
can use the ncurses version of yast as well but that's as far as it goes.

Dave P
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Re: Bug 447981 - No user-friendly editor (nano or joe?) in rescue system

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Robert Kaiser
On 2017-04-17 16:18, Robert Kaiser wrote:

> Carlos E. R. schrieb:
>>> I would not expect a RESCUE system to be a complete, fully functional
>>> system.
>>> It is a debug & repair environment.
>> I expect it to run tools like full YaST, gparted, mc. xfs and other
>> specific filesystem tools. rsync. Man pages. Info pages. A PDF reader. A
>> web browser, to seek help on Internet.
>
> If you expect a web browser, the openSUSE rescue system is not what you
> want. You better use a full live system off a USB stick or DVD. Running
> a web browser as root is never a good idea, and the rescue system only
> has the root user.
Well, I'm talking of exactly that. A USB stick, CD size, named "openSUSE
rescue image". It was available till openSUSE 13.2, I think.

Yes, I tried to roll my own but I did not succeed.

--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: Bug 447981 - No user-friendly editor (nano or joe?) in rescue system

Felix Miata-3
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
Carlos E. R. composed on 2017-04-17 13:42 (UTC+0200):

> Felix Miata wrote:

>> https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=447981
>> Closed worksforme 9 years ago. should I reopen it? Clone it? File from
>> scratch? Simotek on IRC said file a bug, but I wonder if there is some
>> other editor on installation media that I just don't know how to find.
>> I booted the 42.2 rescue system to try to see what's what. The only
>> editors I could get to open were Edit, Joe and Vim. All have the same
>> non-interface that's unfriendly to non-veteran users of the vi/ed
>> interface paradigm.

> Joe is "friendly".
As my OP was supposed to have communicated, this was not my finding. First I
tried 42.2, then TW. I both I found attempts to get any kind if help from within
Joe fruitless.

> It has some help and long text menus. But you have to call them.

Today I tried again with TW and was able to get help onscreen, but I found that
help to be unfriendly.

At direction from IRC I created a new bug report:
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1034493
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: Bug 447981 - No user-friendly editor (nano or joe?) in rescue system

Carlos E. R.-2
On 2017-04-18 01:32, Felix Miata wrote:
> Carlos E. R. composed on 2017-04-17 13:42 (UTC+0200):


>> Joe is "friendly".
> As my OP was supposed to have communicated, this was not my finding.
> First I tried 42.2, then TW. I both I found attempts to get any kind if
> help from within Joe fruitless.
>
>> It has some help and long text menus. But you have to call them.
>
> Today I tried again with TW and was able to get help onscreen, but I
> found that help to be unfriendly.

Ok, but that "friendly" is comparing with GUI editors, or compared to
other plain text editors? Because as far as the console goes in Linux,
Joe is quite "friendly". Compared with old MsDos editors, well, no.

Have you tried "mcedit"? Maybe you find that one more friendly?

--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: Bug 447981 - No user-friendly editor (nano or joe?) in rescue system

Jan Engelhardt-4
In reply to this post by Felix Miata-3
On Monday 2017-04-17 11:05, Felix Miata wrote:

> https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=447981
> Closed worksforme 9 years ago. should I reopen it? Clone it? File from scratch?
> Simotek on IRC said file a bug, but I wonder if there is some other editor on
> installation media that I just don't know how to find.
>
> I booted the 42.2 rescue system to try to see what's what. The only editors I
> could get to open were Edit, Joe and Vim. All have the same non-interface
> that's unfriendly to non-veteran users of the vi/ed interface paradigm.

We have mcedit, do we not?
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Re: Bug 447981 - No user-friendly editor (nano or joe?) in rescue system

Felix Miata-3
Jan Engelhardt composed on 2017-04-18 09:47 (UTC+0200):

> Felix Miata wrote:

>> https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=447981
>> Closed worksforme 9 years ago. should I reopen it? Clone it? File from scratch?
>> Simotek on IRC said file a bug, but I wonder if there is some other editor on
>> installation media that I just don't know how to find.

>> I booted the 42.2 rescue system to try to see what's what. The only editors I
>> could get to open were Edit, Joe and Vim. All have the same non-interface
>> that's unfriendly to non-veteran users of the vi/ed interface paradigm.

> We have mcedit, do we not?

NAICT, only if first chrooting:

You are in rescue mode. After logging in, type "journalctl -xb" to view
system logs, "systemctl reboot" to reboot, "systemctl default" or ^D to
boot into default mode.
Press Enter for maintenance
(or press Control-D to continue):
myhost:~ # uname -a
Linux myhost 4.10.8-1-default #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Mar 31 17:16:00 UTC 2017
(ea9dcd4) x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
myhost:~ # cat /proc/cmdline
install=http://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/repo/oss/ net.ifnames=0
ipv6.disable=1 hostname=myhost hostip=###.###.###.###/24 gateway=###.###.###.###
nameserver=###.###.###.### kexec_reboot=0 splash=0 video=1024x768@60 vga=791 3
noresume broken.modules=floppy rescue
myhost:~ # mc
bash: mc: command not found
myhost:~ # mcedit
bash: mcedit: command not found
--
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words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

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Re: Bug 447981 - No user-friendly editor (nano or joe?) in rescue system

Stefan Knorr
In reply to this post by Felix Miata-3
Hi.

>> Joe is "friendly".
> As my OP was supposed to have communicated, this was not my finding.
> First I tried 42.2, then TW. I both I found attempts to get any kind
> if help from within Joe fruitless.

Joe usually comes with multiple modes which can be started using
separate binary names.
One of them is "jpico" which behaves very similarly to nano.


Stefan who hasn't tried the rescue system.


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SUSE Linux GmbH. Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard,
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Re: Bug 447981 - No user-friendly editor (nano or joe?) in rescue system

Carlos E. R.-2
On 2017-04-18 17:37, Stefan Knorr wrote:

> Hi.
>
>>> Joe is "friendly".
>> As my OP was supposed to have communicated, this was not my finding.
>> First I tried 42.2, then TW. I both I found attempts to get any kind
>> if help from within Joe fruitless.
>
> Joe usually comes with multiple modes which can be started using
> separate binary names.
> One of them is "jpico" which behaves very similarly to nano.
>
>
> Stefan who hasn't tried the rescue system.
:-)

Ah. But none of the "modes", actually plain symlinks, come with the
rescue system. Only plain joe. So no jpico, or jstar, which is the one I
use. Unfortunate.

--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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