Booting into Tumbleweed on a G5

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Booting into Tumbleweed on a G5

David Faure
Hello everyone,

I'm trying to install tumbleweed ppc64 onto an old Mac G5 for a friend (completely replacing the old OS X on the machine).
The install (from a DVD-RW) actually went fine... but I can't boot into it.
All I see on boot is the finder icon alternating with a "?", like it can't find any boot partition or boot code.
The installer did create a "PowerPC PreP boot" partition on /dev/sda1, but somehow the ?BIOS? doesn't find it?

Do you have any hints as to what might be wrong, and/or how to debug this?

Thanks,

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Re: Booting into Tumbleweed on a G5

Michal Suchánek
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 17:47:32 +0100
David Faure <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm trying to install tumbleweed ppc64 onto an old Mac G5 for a friend (completely replacing the old OS X on the machine).
> The install (from a DVD-RW) actually went fine... but I can't boot into it.
> All I see on boot is the finder icon alternating with a "?", like it can't find any boot partition or boot code.
> The installer did create a "PowerPC PreP boot" partition on /dev/sda1, but somehow the ?BIOS? doesn't find it?
>

Please find a guide on installing bootloader on an Apple based ppc
machine.

The way firmware locates the binary to load is implementation-defined.

The installer has been rewritten recently and does not support Apple
hardware.

The hardware is not exactly common so it is not easy to develop and
test support for the platform.

Thanks

Michal
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Re: Booting into Tumbleweed on a G5

Larry Finger
In reply to this post by David Faure
On 2/28/19 10:47 AM, David Faure wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm trying to install tumbleweed ppc64 onto an old Mac G5 for a friend (completely replacing the old OS X on the machine).
> The install (from a DVD-RW) actually went fine... but I can't boot into it.
> All I see on boot is the finder icon alternating with a "?", like it can't find any boot partition or boot code.
> The installer did create a "PowerPC PreP boot" partition on /dev/sda1, but somehow the ?BIOS? doesn't find it?
>
> Do you have any hints as to what might be wrong, and/or how to debug this?

My PowerBook G5 is a 32-bit processor. Is the desktop version 64-bit?

Selecting a distro for the 32-bit units is not easy. Given my natural
inclinations and prejudices, I tried everything I could to get anything but
Ubuntu to work. Initially, Mint worked, but its PPC version was dropped. I thus
ended up running Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. It works fine for what I do, which is
generate modern kernels to test for bugs. Most PPC development is done for
64-bit systems, and it is not always correct for PPC32. Over the last 3 years, I
have detected about 1 bug per year that causes a boot failure. I seldom can
determine the fix, but at least I am able to bisect to the bad commit.

If you decide to go the Ubuntu route, write me privately, and I will give you
some additional pointers.

Larry
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Re: Booting into Tumbleweed on a G5

David Faure
On jeudi 28 février 2019 18:35:56 CET Larry Finger wrote:

> On 2/28/19 10:47 AM, David Faure wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I'm trying to install tumbleweed ppc64 onto an old Mac G5 for a friend
> > (completely replacing the old OS X on the machine). The install (from a
> > DVD-RW) actually went fine... but I can't boot into it. All I see on boot
> > is the finder icon alternating with a "?", like it can't find any boot
> > partition or boot code. The installer did create a "PowerPC PreP boot"
> > partition on /dev/sda1, but somehow the ?BIOS? doesn't find it?
> >
> > Do you have any hints as to what might be wrong, and/or how to debug this?
>
> My PowerBook G5 is a 32-bit processor. Is the desktop version 64-bit?

Yes, this is a 64 bit machine (I mentioned "ppc64").

I might try Ubuntu indeed, if OpenSuSE can't boot, but I wanted to try just a
little bit longer first, I like OpenSuSE ;)

Thanks.

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Re: Booting into Tumbleweed on a G5

David Faure
In reply to this post by Michal Suchánek
On jeudi 28 février 2019 18:02:50 CET Michal Suchánek wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 17:47:32 +0100
>
> David Faure <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I'm trying to install tumbleweed ppc64 onto an old Mac G5 for a friend
> > (completely replacing the old OS X on the machine). The install (from a
> > DVD-RW) actually went fine... but I can't boot into it. All I see on boot
> > is the finder icon alternating with a "?", like it can't find any boot
> > partition or boot code. The installer did create a "PowerPC PreP boot"
> > partition on /dev/sda1, but somehow the ?BIOS? doesn't find it?
>
> Please find a guide on installing bootloader on an Apple based ppc
> machine.
> The way firmware locates the binary to load is implementation-defined.

Heh, so both "RTFM" and "implement it yourself"?
I was hoping for a slightly smaller time investment :-)

> The installer has been rewritten recently and does not support Apple
> hardware.

And yet it created an Apple-specific boot partition?
I guess you mean that about the part about the firmware locating the binary to
load though. I'm just curious about what you mean by that sentence exactly.

> The hardware is not exactly common so it is not easy to develop and
> test support for the platform.

No doubt about that. I can offer some testing, but not really development,
I have plenty of that to do on other topics already ;)

Thanks,

--
David Faure, [hidden email], http://www.davidfaure.fr
Working on KDE Frameworks 5



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Re: Booting into Tumbleweed on a G5

Michal Suchánek
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 18:48:39 +0100
David Faure <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On jeudi 28 février 2019 18:02:50 CET Michal Suchánek wrote:
> > On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 17:47:32 +0100
> >
> > David Faure <[hidden email]> wrote:  
> > > Hello everyone,
> > >
> > > I'm trying to install tumbleweed ppc64 onto an old Mac G5 for a friend
> > > (completely replacing the old OS X on the machine). The install (from a
> > > DVD-RW) actually went fine... but I can't boot into it. All I see on boot
> > > is the finder icon alternating with a "?", like it can't find any boot
> > > partition or boot code. The installer did create a "PowerPC PreP boot"
> > > partition on /dev/sda1, but somehow the ?BIOS? doesn't find it?  
> >
> > Please find a guide on installing bootloader on an Apple based ppc
> > machine.
> > The way firmware locates the binary to load is implementation-defined.  
>
> Heh, so both "RTFM" and "implement it yourself"?
> I was hoping for a slightly smaller time investment :-)
>
> > The installer has been rewritten recently and does not support Apple
> > hardware.  
>
> And yet it created an Apple-specific boot partition?
> I guess you mean that about the part about the firmware locating the binary to
> load though. I'm just curious about what you mean by that sentence exactly.

That's probably *NOT* the partition the Apple firmware expects which is
the cause of your problem.

Thanks

Michal
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Re: Booting into Tumbleweed on a G5

Andreas Schwab
In reply to this post by Larry Finger
On Feb 28 2019, Larry Finger <[hidden email]> wrote:

> My PowerBook G5 is a 32-bit processor.

The G5 is a 64-bit processor (it's a Power4 descendant).

Andreas.

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Re: Booting into Tumbleweed on a G5

Michal Suchánek
In reply to this post by David Faure
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 18:48:39 +0100
David Faure <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On jeudi 28 février 2019 18:02:50 CET Michal Suchánek wrote:
> > On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 17:47:32 +0100
> >
> > David Faure <[hidden email]> wrote:  
> > > Hello everyone,
> > >
> > > I'm trying to install tumbleweed ppc64 onto an old Mac G5 for a friend
> > > (completely replacing the old OS X on the machine). The install (from a
> > > DVD-RW) actually went fine... but I can't boot into it. All I see on boot
> > > is the finder icon alternating with a "?", like it can't find any boot
> > > partition or boot code. The installer did create a "PowerPC PreP boot"
> > > partition on /dev/sda1, but somehow the ?BIOS? doesn't find it?  
> >
> > Please find a guide on installing bootloader on an Apple based ppc
> > machine.
> > The way firmware locates the binary to load is implementation-defined.  
>
> Heh, so both "RTFM" and "implement it yourself"?
> I was hoping for a slightly smaller time investment :-)

FTR the issue is
reported here http://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1079435 and you
might even get some information on how to install in the bug report.

HTH

Michal

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Re: Booting into Tumbleweed on a G5

Andreas Schwab
In reply to this post by David Faure
On Feb 28 2019, David Faure <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm trying to install tumbleweed ppc64 onto an old Mac G5 for a friend (completely replacing the old OS X on the machine).
> The install (from a DVD-RW) actually went fine... but I can't boot into it.
> All I see on boot is the finder icon alternating with a "?", like it can't find any boot partition or boot code.
> The installer did create a "PowerPC PreP boot" partition on /dev/sda1, but somehow the ?BIOS? doesn't find it?

PReP is for IBM POWER systems, useless for Mac.

You need a mac disk label, with a Apple_Bootstrap partition formatted as
hfs with a special layout.  The ppc version of lilo can format such a
boot partition.  I don't know if grub has support for booting a Mac.

On my G5 with oS 13.1 it looks like this:

# hmount /dev/sda2
Volume name is "SuSE Linux boot partition"
Volume was created on Tue Nov 10 00:40:11 2009
Volume was last modified on Mon Feb 25 20:48:59 2019
Volume has 131373056 bytes free
# hls -l suseboot
f  FNDR/MACS       286         0 Sep 14  1999 Finder
f  tbxi/chrp         0      2429 Feb 25 20:48 os-chooser
f  zsys/MACS    243673         0 May 25  2001 System
f  BINA/UNIX         0    487296 Feb 25 20:48 yaboot
f  TEXT/R*ch         0      1968 Feb 25 20:48 yaboot.conf

Andreas.

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Re: Booting into Tumbleweed on a G5

Al Dunsmuir
In reply to this post by Andreas Schwab
On Thursday, February 28, 2019, 1:03:39 PM, Andreas Schwab wrote:
> On Feb 28 2019, Larry Finger <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> My PowerBook G5 is a 32-bit processor.
> The G5 is a 64-bit processor (it's a Power4 descendant).
> Andreas.

Apple  PowerPC-based  laptops (Powerbooks and iBooks) started out with
G3  processors, and ended with G4 processors. All were 32-bit and none
shipped with G5 processors.

http://everymac.com is a good resource to identify the exact model and
specifications, given the machine serial number.

https://forums.macrumors.com/forums/powerpc-macs.145/ is a reasonably
active discussion forum for all PowerPC based Macs.

Debian (PPC ports), Adélie and Void have ppc32 distributions.
Al


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Re: Booting into Tumbleweed on a G5

David Faure
In reply to this post by Andreas Schwab
On jeudi 28 février 2019 19:18:47 CET Andreas Schwab wrote:

> On Feb 28 2019, David Faure <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I'm trying to install tumbleweed ppc64 onto an old Mac G5 for a friend
> > (completely replacing the old OS X on the machine). The install (from a
> > DVD-RW) actually went fine... but I can't boot into it. All I see on boot
> > is the finder icon alternating with a "?", like it can't find any boot
> > partition or boot code. The installer did create a "PowerPC PreP boot"
> > partition on /dev/sda1, but somehow the ?BIOS? doesn't find it?
> PReP is for IBM POWER systems, useless for Mac.
>
> You need a mac disk label, with a Apple_Bootstrap partition formatted as
> hfs with a special layout.  The ppc version of lilo can format such a
> boot partition.  I don't know if grub has support for booting a Mac.
>
> On my G5 with oS 13.1 it looks like this:
>
> # hmount /dev/sda2
> Volume name is "SuSE Linux boot partition"
> Volume was created on Tue Nov 10 00:40:11 2009
> Volume was last modified on Mon Feb 25 20:48:59 2019
> Volume has 131373056 bytes free
> # hls -l suseboot
> f  FNDR/MACS       286         0 Sep 14  1999 Finder
> f  tbxi/chrp         0      2429 Feb 25 20:48 os-chooser
> f  zsys/MACS    243673         0 May 25  2001 System
> f  BINA/UNIX         0    487296 Feb 25 20:48 yaboot
> f  TEXT/R*ch         0      1968 Feb 25 20:48 yaboot.conf

Hi,
Thanks for the information.
My setup is all working now.

It turns out that the easiest way to create a mac partition table,
the necessary partitions, and have yaboot installed is... the Ubuntu 16.04
installer. At that point I can probably install OpenSuSE again, which yaboot
will be able to boot into :-)

Cheers,

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Working on KDE Frameworks 5



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