Ah, now we can install it?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
9 messages Options
AP
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Ah, now we can install it?

AP
Hello,

First of all, I am happy that the launch of 13.1 has taken place. I
have some queries related with the same. These are as follows:

(i) Installation: Now, I know that I can install it right now. But I
just want to confirm that I can go ahead with it? Because right now
12.3 is working very well and would be supported, and installing the
latest one won't have anything unexpected...?

(ii) The New Release: This is the general doubt. Every time the new
release comes after a fixed interval of time. Just wanted to know if
this cycle is a sort of fashion in free software market? Means, when
many things can be patched from YaST, still the newer version come so
early, so this is followed because it is in term and condition or this
cycle can be made flexible also so that the newer releases can be
delayed or the cycle be increased in time...? I know though, the
versions like Tumbleweed are there.

Thanks.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Ah, now we can install it?

gregfreemyer
On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 4:45 AM, AP <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> First of all, I am happy that the launch of 13.1 has taken place. I
> have some queries related with the same. These are as follows:
>
> (i) Installation: Now, I know that I can install it right now. But I
> just want to confirm that I can go ahead with it? Because right now
> 12.3 is working very well and would be supported, and installing the
> latest one won't have anything unexpected...?

If you favor stability, give it a couple months.  There is a lot of
testing, but sometimes a decision has to be made that affects multiple
packages and they simply aren't all available on release day.  This
time the main culprit is bluetooth.  Gnome and KDE got out of sync,
but they share the bottom of the bluetooth stack.

13.1 was shipped with a broken KDE bluetooth stack.  This was expected
weeks (or even months) ago due to schedule issues.

> (ii) The New Release: This is the general doubt. Every time the new
> release comes after a fixed interval of time. Just wanted to know if
> this cycle is a sort of fashion in free software market?

For smaller projects, they tend to ship based on new features being ready.

For distros (and the linux kernel) there are so many component pieces
that it makes better sense to set routine schedule.  openSUSE is using
8 months between releases.  There was a slip of a couple months in
summer 2012.

> Means, when
> many things can be patched from YaST, still the newer version come so
> early, so this is followed because it is in term and condition or this
> cycle can be made flexible also so that the newer releases can be
> delayed or the cycle be increased in time...?

RE; support cycle

openSUSE supports 2 concurrent releases, with a 2-month overlap at
each transition.

Thus last month 12.2 and 12.3 were supported.
We are now in the 2-month transition to 13.1, so 12.2, 12.3 and 13.1
will be supported for 2 months.
After that, 12.2 will be dropped.

Separately there is the Evergreen team which picks releases to support
for 3 years.  11.4 is the current evergreen supported release.  13.1
will be the next one, so if you want to stay on a release for up to 3
years, 13.1 is a great choice.  I forget when 11.4 evergreen support
drops, but I think it is next summer (6-9 months from now)

RE; release schedule

Major desktop updates like for KDE / Gnome are not done via the normal
updates channel.

Thus 2 options:
- routine core distro updates
- support updates via a add-on repo in OBS

openSUSE is currently doing both.  There has been some discussion of
pulling some of the packages out of core and just having them in
add-on repos.

Greg
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

AP
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Ah, now we can install it?

AP
In reply to this post by AP
On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 8:52 PM, Greg Freemyer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If you favor stability, give it a couple months.  There is a lot of
> testing, but sometimes a decision has to be made that affects multiple
> packages and they simply aren't all available on release day.  This
> time the main culprit is bluetooth.  Gnome and KDE got out of sync,
> but they share the bottom of the bluetooth stack.

> 13.1 was shipped with a broken KDE bluetooth stack.  This was expected
> weeks (or even months) ago due to schedule issues.

Well, in this scenario, I must wait. But anyways, why I am least
worried because 12.3 would be supported.

> For smaller projects, they tend to ship based on new features being ready.

> For distros (and the linux kernel) there are so many component pieces
> that it makes better sense to set routine schedule.  openSUSE is using
> 8 months between releases.  There was a slip of a couple months in
> summer 2012.

OH I see.

> openSUSE supports 2 concurrent releases, with a 2-month overlap at
> each transition.

> Thus last month 12.2 and 12.3 were supported.
> We are now in the 2-month transition to 13.1, so 12.2, 12.3 and 13.1
> will be supported for 2 months.
> After that, 12.2 will be dropped.

And it would dropped by the end of Jan'14. We would have 12.3 to be
supported till Sep'14.

> Separately there is the Evergreen team which picks releases to support
> for 3 years.  11.4 is the current evergreen supported release.  13.1
> will be the next one, so if you want to stay on a release for up to 3
> years, 13.1 is a great choice.  I forget when 11.4 evergreen support
> drops, but I think it is next summer (6-9 months from now)

> Major desktop updates like for KDE / Gnome are not done via the normal
> updates channel.

> Thus 2 options:
> - routine core distro updates
> - support updates via a add-on repo in OBS

> openSUSE is currently doing both.  There has been some discussion of pulling some of the packages out of core and just having them in add-on repos.

Okay. But I heard that there is some difference between Evergreen and
the regular openSUSE (which is not long supported), like there are
some programs which are not upgraded but only the security
fixes....Though I would stick with the 18 month's support openSUSE
unless especially some reason(s) exist(s).

Thanks.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Ah, now we can install it?

gregfreemyer
On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 10:48 AM, AP <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 8:52 PM, Greg Freemyer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> openSUSE supports 2 concurrent releases, with a 2-month overlap at
>> each transition.
>
>> Thus last month 12.2 and 12.3 were supported.
>> We are now in the 2-month transition to 13.1, so 12.2, 12.3 and 13.1
>> will be supported for 2 months.
>> After that, 12.2 will be dropped.
>
> And it would dropped by the end of Jan'14. We would have 12.3 to be
> supported till Sep'14.

Agreed, the schedule is:- 2 months more for 12.2, 10 months more for
12.3,  18 months for 13.1

>> Separately there is the Evergreen team which picks releases to support
>> for 3 years.  11.4 is the current evergreen supported release.  13.1
>> will be the next one, so if you want to stay on a release for up to 3
>> years, 13.1 is a great choice.  I forget when 11.4 evergreen support
>> drops, but I think it is next summer (6-9 months from now)
>
>> Major desktop updates like for KDE / Gnome are not done via the normal
>> updates channel.
>
>> Thus 2 options:
>> - routine core distro updates
>> - support updates via a add-on repo in OBS
>
>> openSUSE is currently doing both.  There has been some discussion of pulling some of the packages out of core and just having them in add-on repos.
>
> Okay. But I heard that there is some difference between Evergreen and
> the regular openSUSE (which is not long supported), like there are
> some programs which are not upgraded but only the security
> fixes....Though I would stick with the 18 month's support openSUSE
> unless especially some reason(s) exist(s).

Evergreen has a pretty small support team and they are all volunteer.
Thus they tend to watch the security patches come out for 12.2/12.3
currently, then back port them to 11.4.  Sometimes the backport is
difficult, so they simply update the whole package to a newer one, so
it does happen, but not very often.

Also a lot of the packages on OBS don't build against the Evergreen
release, so you don't have as many packages to choose from.  Evergreen
is focused on stability, so you do loose some flexibility if you go
that way.

Greg
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

AP
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Ah, now we can install it?

AP
In reply to this post by AP
On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 9:37 PM, Greg Freemyer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Agreed, the schedule is:- 2 months more for 12.2, 10 months more for
> 12.3,  18 months for 13.1

Yes.

> Evergreen has a pretty small support team and they are all volunteer.
> Thus they tend to watch the security patches come out for 12.2/12.3
> currently, then back port them to 11.4.  Sometimes the backport is
> difficult, so they simply update the whole package to a newer one, so
> it does happen, but not very often.

And that's why it doesn't get much attention.

> Also a lot of the packages on OBS don't build against the Evergreen
> release, so you don't have as many packages to choose from.  Evergreen
> is focused on stability, so you do loose some flexibility if you go
> that way.

That's why I would wait for some time so that a more neat and clean
13.1 can be downloaded, just some problems/issues (if any) get
eradicated in a months' time.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Ah, now we can install it?

Rajko M.
On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 14:28:02 +0530
AP <[hidden email]> wrote:

> That's why I would wait for some time so that a more neat and clean
> 13.1 can be downloaded, just some problems/issues (if any) get
> eradicated in a months' time.

There is no cleaner installation medium (iso image) then one that is
released, so you can wait quite a long to get one. :)


When the problem is installation with certain configuration of hardware
and storage (partitions), there will be no improvements to medium, just
workarounds, but you can't know before you start installation. Amount
of time you wait will not change anything.

The only thing that will be better with time is what comes trough update
channel.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

On the other hand, if you have some exotic storage configuration like
mine, just use defaults. I tried to use btrfs, instead of default,
ext4 and to add problems I changed default btrfs configuration that was
tested by SUSE guys. Result was that grub2 did not install to my btrfs,
I had to reboot, and then due to unusual partitioning there was no boot
at all. Grub2 was looking one partition and bootable system was on the
other. Later, few reboots between live system and halfway installed, I
started installation again and used defaults, including ext4 and system
was up and running.

I can't blame YaST Installer for any of the problems. It was all mine.

--
Regards, Rajko.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

AP
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Ah, now we can install it?

AP
In reply to this post by AP
On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 5:09 AM, Rajko <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There is no cleaner installation medium (iso image) then one that is
> released, so you can wait quite a long to get one. :)

Oh well.

> When the problem is installation with certain configuration of hardware
> and storage (partitions), there will be no improvements to medium, just
> workarounds, but you can't know before you start installation. Amount
> of time you wait will not change anything.

> The only thing that will be better with time is what comes trough update
> channel.

That's ok but since 12.3 is also doing all the things well and is well
under the period of support, I guess if I wait for some time, it would
be okay.

> Grub2 was looking one partition and bootable system was on the


I guess Grub1 was much better. It is a bit for typical.

Thanks.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Ah, now we can install it?

jdd@dodin.org
Le 26/11/2013 16:33, AP a écrit :
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 5:09 AM, Rajko <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Grub2 was looking one partition (...)
>
>
> I guess Grub1 was much better. It is a bit for typical.

just a word to say that I also feared much the change from grub to
grub2. Finally it's not that difficult. On 13.1 one have to type "e"
(the e letter) directly when displaying the grub menu to go to edit
mode (was Esc).

The only thing I really dislike is the fact then YaST do not anymore
show the menu before writing it, miss a "dry run" for grub

it's really time to migrate (uefi/gpt is coming fast)

jdd


--
http://www.dodin.org
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]

AP
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Ah, now we can install it?

AP
In reply to this post by AP
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:25 PM, jdd <[hidden email]> wrote:

> just a word to say that I also feared much the change from grub to grub2.
> Finally it's not that difficult. On 13.1 one have to type "e" (the e letter)
> directly when displaying the grub menu to go to edit mode (was Esc).

> The only thing I really dislike is the fact then YaST do not anymore show
> the menu before writing it, miss a "dry run" for grub

> it's really time to migrate (uefi/gpt is coming fast)

But I remember encrypting the password using 'grub-md5-crypt' was easy
on Grub but here the method seems different.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [hidden email]