42.2 texlive packages

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42.2 texlive packages

Carl Hartung-2

Hi All,

<rant> Has anyone else here unexpectedly stumbled upon texlive's
phenomenally voluminous installed packages list and been stunned by
it's footprint? Over 900 -doc packages, alone?! I don't recall
explicitly selecting to install it. IMHO, it should have it's own
'package group' or 'pattern' instead of being pulled in with anything
else. And how about the package names seemingly being seeded with odd
selections designed to bork obvious pattern matching, hence frustrating
rapid, bulk removal of texlive from the system? ... -doc-doc, -bin-bin,
-font-fonts and there are others. Really? >:-( </rant>

Have a nice day,

Carl

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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

Patrick Shanahan-2
* Carl Hartung <[hidden email]> [07-02-17 09:19]:

>
> Hi All,
>
> <rant> Has anyone else here unexpectedly stumbled upon texlive's
> phenomenally voluminous installed packages list and been stunned by
> it's footprint? Over 900 -doc packages, alone?! I don't recall
> explicitly selecting to install it. IMHO, it should have it's own
> 'package group' or 'pattern' instead of being pulled in with anything
> else. And how about the package names seemingly being seeded with odd
> selections designed to bork obvious pattern matching, hence frustrating
> rapid, bulk removal of texlive from the system? ... -doc-doc, -bin-bin,
> -font-fonts and there are others. Really? >:-( </rant>

> rpm -qa *texlive* |wc -l
 14
 
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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

Mark Goldstein
In reply to this post by Carl Hartung-2
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Carl Hartung <[hidden email]> wrote:
> <rant> Has anyone else here unexpectedly stumbled upon texlive's
> phenomenally voluminous installed packages list and been stunned by
> it's footprint? Over 900 -doc packages, alone?! I don't recall
> explicitly selecting to install it. IMHO, it should have it's own
> 'package group' or 'pattern' instead of being pulled in with anything
> else. And how about the package names seemingly being seeded with odd
> selections designed to bork obvious pattern matching, hence frustrating
> rapid, bulk removal of texlive from the system? ... -doc-doc, -bin-bin,
> -font-fonts and there are others. Really? >:-( </rant>


Yes, I needed it for some pdf manipulations (images/join/split) and
also was surprised by the amount of packages it pulls in (both TW and
42.2).

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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

Carl Hartung-2
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan-2
On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 09:29:07 -0400
Patrick Shanahan wrote:

> > rpm -qa *texlive* |wc -l  
>  14

Hi Patrick,

Your point is well taken, but I don't consider you to be an 'average
user' :) I've had two 42.2 installations in a row result in what
appear to be unintentionally complete sets of texlive packages being
installed, and, some of those odd package names tended to thwart my
usual (albeit probably sloppy / rusty) cli mitigation efforts, hence my
brief rant. :) I'm on to other issues now but I appreciate your
feedback!

regards,

Carl

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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

Patrick Shanahan-2
* Carl Hartung <[hidden email]> [07-02-17 11:18]:

> On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 09:29:07 -0400
> Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>
> > > rpm -qa *texlive* |wc -l  
> >  14
>
> Hi Patrick,
>
> Your point is well taken, but I don't consider you to be an 'average
> user' :) I've had two 42.2 installations in a row result in what
> appear to be unintentionally complete sets of texlive packages being
> installed, and, some of those odd package names tended to thwart my
> usual (albeit probably sloppy / rusty) cli mitigation efforts, hence my
> brief rant. :) I'm on to other issues now but I appreciate your
> feedback!

good, sit back, prop up the feet and pop the top off a brown bottle, or
two, or ....

and I have three boxes w/o a texlive* pkg and another with one....

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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Carl Hartung-2
On 2017-07-02 17:15, Carl Hartung wrote:

> On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 09:29:07 -0400
> Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>
>>> rpm -qa *texlive* |wc -l  
>>  14
>
> Hi Patrick,
>
> Your point is well taken, but I don't consider you to be an 'average
> user' :) I've had two 42.2 installations in a row result in what
> appear to be unintentionally complete sets of texlive packages being
> installed, and, some of those odd package names tended to thwart my
> usual (albeit probably sloppy / rusty) cli mitigation efforts, hence my
> brief rant. :) I'm on to other issues now but I appreciate your
> feedback!

cer@Telcontar:~> rpm -qa texlive* | wc -l
1727
cer@Telcontar:~>

Yes, this is a known issue. If something wants or recommends texlive as
a dependency, you get an awful lot of packages. And yes, they are
intentionally that many so that you can choose exactly which of them you
choose - as if anybody can select manually only 500 of them out of the list!

If you want them out, find out what recommended them. Or ban them. I
don't know which one is the master package. Maybe
"texlive-2015.20150521-26.29.x86_64".

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                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

Patrick Shanahan-2
* Carlos E. R. <[hidden email]> [07-02-17 14:45]:

> On 2017-07-02 17:15, Carl Hartung wrote:
> > On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 09:29:07 -0400
> > Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> >
> >>> rpm -qa *texlive* |wc -l  
> >>  14
> >
> > Hi Patrick,
> >
> > Your point is well taken, but I don't consider you to be an 'average
> > user' :) I've had two 42.2 installations in a row result in what
> > appear to be unintentionally complete sets of texlive packages being
> > installed, and, some of those odd package names tended to thwart my
> > usual (albeit probably sloppy / rusty) cli mitigation efforts, hence my
> > brief rant. :) I'm on to other issues now but I appreciate your
> > feedback!
>
>
> cer@Telcontar:~> rpm -qa texlive* | wc -l
> 1727
> cer@Telcontar:~>
>
> Yes, this is a known issue. If something wants or recommends texlive as
> a dependency, you get an awful lot of packages. And yes, they are
> intentionally that many so that you can choose exactly which of them you
> choose - as if anybody can select manually only 500 of them out of the list!
>
> If you want them out, find out what recommended them. Or ban them. I
> don't know which one is the master package. Maybe
> "texlive-2015.20150521-26.29.x86_64".

my low count probably stems from always using --no-recommends

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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

Carlos E. R.-2
On 2017-07-02 21:26, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> * Carlos E. R. <> [07-02-17 14:45]:


>> cer@Telcontar:~> rpm -qa texlive* | wc -l
>> 1727
>> cer@Telcontar:~>
>>
>> Yes, this is a known issue. If something wants or recommends texlive as
>> a dependency, you get an awful lot of packages. And yes, they are
>> intentionally that many so that you can choose exactly which of them you
>> choose - as if anybody can select manually only 500 of them out of the list!
>>
>> If you want them out, find out what recommended them. Or ban them. I
>> don't know which one is the master package. Maybe
>> "texlive-2015.20150521-26.29.x86_64".
>
> my low count probably stems from always using --no-recommends
But I use LyX, so I need Tex even if not directly.

What I say is only that they are so many packages (for fine control)
that it is impossible to really control them manually. I mean, clic clic
clic in yast... I think they should be grouped in bigger packages, after
all disk space is cheap... thousands of packages is unmanageable.


--
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                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

Peter Suetterlin
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan-2
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>
> good, sit back, prop up the feet and pop the top off a brown bottle, or
> two, or ....

OK, already had some brown-bottle-stuff.  Still

> and I have three boxes w/o a texlive* pkg and another with one....

So you obviously don't use TeX at all.  Which means the post isn't really
useful regarding the basic problem.

Texlive comes with more than 2000 packages, and for some packages I'm sure the
overhead from rpm database etc. uses MORE space than the actual files in the
package.

I, too, find the situation quite ridiculous.

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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

Roger Oberholtzer-2
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 8:44 PM, Carlos E. R.
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2017-07-02 17:15, Carl Hartung wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 09:29:07 -0400
>> Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>>
>>>> rpm -qa *texlive* |wc -l
>>>  14
>>
>> Hi Patrick,
>>
>> Your point is well taken, but I don't consider you to be an 'average
>> user' :) I've had two 42.2 installations in a row result in what
>> appear to be unintentionally complete sets of texlive packages being
>> installed, and, some of those odd package names tended to thwart my
>> usual (albeit probably sloppy / rusty) cli mitigation efforts, hence my
>> brief rant. :) I'm on to other issues now but I appreciate your
>> feedback!
>
>
> cer@Telcontar:~> rpm -qa texlive* | wc -l
> 1727
> cer@Telcontar:~>
>
> Yes, this is a known issue. If something wants or recommends texlive as
> a dependency, you get an awful lot of packages. And yes, they are
> intentionally that many so that you can choose exactly which of them you
> choose - as if anybody can select manually only 500 of them out of the list!

The problem is that whatever is requesting them does not limit it's
appetite to the ones it needs. Or, if it does, the dependencies wind
up pulling all the packages anyway. Making the whole point of making
them in to a zillion packages rather moot. It seems that once you get
a few, the rest seem always to want to tag along. I have hat to
actively block them.



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Roger Oberholtzer

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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

Istvan Gabor-3
In reply to this post by Carl Hartung-2
On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 09:17:32 -0400, Carl Hartung wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> <rant> Has anyone else here unexpectedly stumbled upon texlive's
> phenomenally voluminous installed packages list and been stunned by
> it's footprint? Over 900 -doc packages, alone?! I don't recall
> explicitly selecting to install it. IMHO, it should have it's own
> 'package group' or 'pattern' instead of being pulled in with anything
> else. And how about the package names seemingly being seeded with odd
> selections designed to bork obvious pattern matching, hence
> frustrating
> rapid, bulk removal of texlive from the system? ... -doc-doc,
> -bin-bin,
> -font-fonts and there are others. Really? >:-( </rant>
>
> Have a nice day,
>
> Carl

This is among the reasons I never install texlive from openSUSE repos.
I always install texlive using install-tl
(http://mirror.ctan.org/systems/texlive/tlnet/install-tl-unx.tar.gz)
on a separate partition than the system resides. I select texlive
programs
for installation using texlive's tlmgr "package" manager.
In yast package manager I taboo texlive. If a non-texlive package
requires
a texlive program (eg lyx) I choose break dependency requirement in
yast
and make sure that the required texlive program is installed.
Using this method I can even use the same texlive installation with
different openSUSE versions and don't have reinstall texlive when I
upgrade openSUSE (provided using the same architecture, i386 or
x86_64).

Istvan




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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

Dr. Werner Fink
On Mon, Jul 03, 2017 at 12:08:59PM +0200, Istvan Gabor wrote:

> On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 09:17:32 -0400, Carl Hartung wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > <rant> Has anyone else here unexpectedly stumbled upon texlive's
> > phenomenally voluminous installed packages list and been stunned by
> > it's footprint? Over 900 -doc packages, alone?! I don't recall
> > explicitly selecting to install it. IMHO, it should have it's own
> > 'package group' or 'pattern' instead of being pulled in with anything
> > else. And how about the package names seemingly being seeded with odd
> > selections designed to bork obvious pattern matching, hence frustrating
> > rapid, bulk removal of texlive from the system? ... -doc-doc, -bin-bin,
> > -font-fonts and there are others. Really? >:-( </rant>
> >
> > Have a nice day,
> >
> > Carl
>
> This is among the reasons I never install texlive from openSUSE repos.
> I always install texlive using install-tl
> (http://mirror.ctan.org/systems/texlive/tlnet/install-tl-unx.tar.gz)
> on a separate partition than the system resides. I select texlive programs
> for installation using texlive's tlmgr "package" manager.
> In yast package manager I taboo texlive. If a non-texlive package requires
> a texlive program (eg lyx) I choose break dependency requirement in yast
> and make sure that the required texlive program is installed.
> Using this method I can even use the same texlive installation with
> different openSUSE versions and don't have reinstall texlive when I
> upgrade openSUSE (provided using the same architecture, i386 or x86_64).
Nevertheless and accordingly to

  https://ftp.fau.de/ctan/systems/texlive/tlnet/tlpkg/texlive.tlpdb.xz

one gets the same amount of packages as well.  OK, not with RPM but
as tar balls from https://ftp.fau.de/ctan/systems/texlive/tlnet/archive/
... you might have a look at the tlpkg/tlpobj/ subdirectory below the
texmf-dist directory of you installation and to

    ls -l *.tlpobj | wc -l

to see how many packages there are.

For generating the texlive rpm packages I'm using a perl script
which does read and use texlive.tlpdb.xz to generate the various
spec files.  Beside this the binary packages including biber are
compiled and build with the system perl and libraries.

Werner

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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

Werner Flamme-2
In reply to this post by Carl Hartung-2
Carl Hartung [02.07.2017 15:17]:

>
> Hi All,
>
> <rant> Has anyone else here unexpectedly stumbled upon texlive's
> phenomenally voluminous installed packages list and been stunned by
> it's footprint? Over 900 -doc packages, alone?! I don't recall
> explicitly selecting to install it. IMHO, it should have it's own
> 'package group' or 'pattern' instead of being pulled in with anything
> else. And how about the package names seemingly being seeded with odd
> selections designed to bork obvious pattern matching, hence frustrating
> rapid, bulk removal of texlive from the system? ... -doc-doc, -bin-bin,
> -font-fonts and there are others. Really? >:-( </rant>
>
> Have a nice day,
>
> Carl
>

There are some kind of patterns, yes, but they are not declared as such.

"rpm -qa 'texlive-collection*'" will show you, and "zypper se
texlive-collection" might show you what you are still missing ;)

texlive-collection-basic-2015.105.svn33040-18.2.noarch
texlive-collection-fontsrecommended-2015.105.svn35830-18.2.noarch
texlive-collection-genericrecommended-2015.105.svn35655-18.2.noarch
texlive-collection-htmlxml-2015.105.svn35743-18.2.noarch
texlive-collection-latex-2015.105.svn33055-18.2.noarch
texlive-collection-latexrecommended-2015.105.svn35765-18.2.noarch
texlive-collection-luatex-2015.105.svn37811-18.2.noarch

->  624 texlive-Packages installed. I'd be happy with something like
'texlive-minimal', so that the hunger of rpm can be satisfied. If I
really work with tex, I'd use the packages directly from ctan.org anyway ;)

Werner

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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

Carlos E. R.-2
In reply to this post by Roger Oberholtzer-2
On 2017-07-03 07:39, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 8:44 PM, Carlos E. R.
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 2017-07-02 17:15, Carl Hartung wrote:
>>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 09:29:07 -0400
>>> Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>>>
>>>>> rpm -qa *texlive* |wc -l
>>>>  14
>>>
>>> Hi Patrick,
>>>
>>> Your point is well taken, but I don't consider you to be an 'average
>>> user' :) I've had two 42.2 installations in a row result in what
>>> appear to be unintentionally complete sets of texlive packages being
>>> installed, and, some of those odd package names tended to thwart my
>>> usual (albeit probably sloppy / rusty) cli mitigation efforts, hence my
>>> brief rant. :) I'm on to other issues now but I appreciate your
>>> feedback!
>>
>>
>> cer@Telcontar:~> rpm -qa texlive* | wc -l
>> 1727
>> cer@Telcontar:~>
>>
>> Yes, this is a known issue. If something wants or recommends texlive as
>> a dependency, you get an awful lot of packages. And yes, they are
>> intentionally that many so that you can choose exactly which of them you
>> choose - as if anybody can select manually only 500 of them out of the list!
>
> The problem is that whatever is requesting them does not limit it's
> appetite to the ones it needs. Or, if it does, the dependencies wind
> up pulling all the packages anyway. Making the whole point of making
> them in to a zillion packages rather moot. It seems that once you get
> a few, the rest seem always to want to tag along. I have hat to
> actively block them.
hat? What is that? :-?

--
Cheers / Saludos,

                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

Patrick Shanahan-2
* Carlos E. R. <[hidden email]> [07-03-17 09:01]:
> On 2017-07-03 07:39, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
 [...]
> > The problem is that whatever is requesting them does not limit it's
> > appetite to the ones it needs. Or, if it does, the dependencies wind
> > up pulling all the packages anyway. Making the whole point of making
> > them in to a zillion packages rather moot. It seems that once you get
> > a few, the rest seem always to want to tag along. I have hat to
> > actively block them.
>
> hat? What is that? :-?

I believe, s/hat/had

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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

Jos van Kan
In reply to this post by Patrick Shanahan-2
On 02-07-17 15:29, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

> * Carl Hartung <[hidden email]> [07-02-17 09:19]:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> <rant> Has anyone else here unexpectedly stumbled upon texlive's
>> phenomenally voluminous installed packages list and been stunned by
>> it's footprint? Over 900 -doc packages, alone?! I don't recall
>> explicitly selecting to install it. IMHO, it should have it's own
>> 'package group' or 'pattern' instead of being pulled in with anything
>> else. And how about the package names seemingly being seeded with odd
>> selections designed to bork obvious pattern matching, hence frustrating
>> rapid, bulk removal of texlive from the system? ... -doc-doc, -bin-bin,
>> -font-fonts and there are others. Really? >:-( </rant>
>> rpm -qa *texlive* |wc -l
>   14
>  

Interesting.

vankan@linux-wo23:~> rpm -qa *texlive* | wc -l
1723

But then I am able to write in Korean (not that I need to) and have a
hyphenation dictionary in spanglish (not that I need one). So yes, Carl, same
here, but I live with it. :) (And I have a mere 637 doc packages)

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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

Carlos E. R.-2
On 2017-07-03 18:43, Jos van Kan wrote:

> On 02-07-17 15:29, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>> * Carl Hartung <[hidden email]> [07-02-17 09:19]:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> <rant> Has anyone else here unexpectedly stumbled upon texlive's
>>> phenomenally voluminous installed packages list and been stunned by
>>> it's footprint? Over 900 -doc packages, alone?! I don't recall
>>> explicitly selecting to install it. IMHO, it should have it's own
>>> 'package group' or 'pattern' instead of being pulled in with anything
>>> else. And how about the package names seemingly being seeded with odd
>>> selections designed to bork obvious pattern matching, hence frustrating
>>> rapid, bulk removal of texlive from the system? ... -doc-doc, -bin-bin,
>>> -font-fonts and there are others. Really? >:-( </rant>
>>> rpm -qa *texlive* |wc -l
>>   14
>>  
>
> Interesting.
>
> vankan@linux-wo23:~> rpm -qa *texlive* | wc -l
> 1723
>
> But then I am able to write in Korean (not that I need to) and have a
> hyphenation dictionary in spanglish (not that I need one). So yes, Carl,
> same here, but I live with it. :) (And I have a mere 637 doc packages)
The problem is people that do not use Tex, but yet install something
that has Tex recommended, which brings the lot in.


--
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                Carlos E. R.
                (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)


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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

mararm
On Monday, 2017-07-03 20:05:52 CEST Carlos E. R. wrote:
> The problem is people that do not use Tex,

Full ACK

SCNR
mararm

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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

Roger Oberholtzer-2
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.-2
On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 3:00 PM, Carlos E. R.
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> hat? What is that? :-?

'hat' is either a brilliant and little known TexLive installation
control system ... or a typo for 'that'...

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Re: 42.2 texlive packages

Roger Oberholtzer-2
On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 7:44 AM, Roger Oberholtzer
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 3:00 PM, Carlos E. R.
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> hat? What is that? :-?
>
> 'hat' is either a brilliant and little known TexLive installation
> control system ... or a typo for 'that'...

OMG! Or better yet, a type for 'had'.

I really need a summer break...


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